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Europe embraces socialism and sinks further into debt

BrianD3 2012/05/07 11:31:24
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The recent elections and the peoples reactions to the results demonstrate quite clearly that no one in europe is interested in austerity mesures. These slaves to the government entitlement drug are hooked and do not have the will to endure the withdrawal symptoms.
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  • Bella 2012/05/08 16:23:17
    they are right to keep spending
    Bella
    USA, Spain, Greece, Ireland and Italy are examples of how well capitalism is working, failing economies. Sweden, Norway, Denmark and China have sound economies despite being true socialistic countries. America began sinking into debt as soon as republicans started cutting taxes for the wealthy.
  • Gloria 2012/05/08 15:59:51
    they are right to keep spending
    Gloria
    When Sarkozy & the jagger shagger were kicked to the curb it makes me wish we not been bushed. It's too late now. The damage is done.
  • Q 2012/05/08 15:26:25
    they are right to keep spending
    Q
    +3
    Please...most of Europe is in a double dip recession because of the austerity measures.

    Britain’s Office for National Statistics confirmed on Wednesday that in the first quarter of this year Britain’s economy shrank .2 percent, after having contracted .3 percent in the fourth quarter of 2011. (Officially, two quarters of shrinkage equal a recession.) On Monday, Spain officially fell into recession for the second time in three years. Portugal, Italy and Greece are already basket cases, and it seems highly likely France and Germany are also contracting.

    What’s the problem with Europe? Don’t blame it on the so-called “debt crisis.” There was no debt crisis in Britain, for example, which is now experiencing its first double-dip recession since the 1970s.

    Blame it on austerity economics – the bizarre view that economic slowdowns are the products of excessive debt, and so government should cut spending in a slowdown. Germany’s insistence on cutting public budgets has led Europe into a recession swamp.

    It seems they have forgotten two critical lessons.

    First, that the real issue isn’t debt per se, but rather the ratio of the debt to the size of the economy.

    In their haste to cut the public debt, Europeans have overlooked the denominator of the equation. By reducing public budge...

    Please...most of Europe is in a double dip recession because of the austerity measures.

    Britain’s Office for National Statistics confirmed on Wednesday that in the first quarter of this year Britain’s economy shrank .2 percent, after having contracted .3 percent in the fourth quarter of 2011. (Officially, two quarters of shrinkage equal a recession.) On Monday, Spain officially fell into recession for the second time in three years. Portugal, Italy and Greece are already basket cases, and it seems highly likely France and Germany are also contracting.

    What’s the problem with Europe? Don’t blame it on the so-called “debt crisis.” There was no debt crisis in Britain, for example, which is now experiencing its first double-dip recession since the 1970s.

    Blame it on austerity economics – the bizarre view that economic slowdowns are the products of excessive debt, and so government should cut spending in a slowdown. Germany’s insistence on cutting public budgets has led Europe into a recession swamp.

    It seems they have forgotten two critical lessons.

    First, that the real issue isn’t debt per se, but rather the ratio of the debt to the size of the economy.

    In their haste to cut the public debt, Europeans have overlooked the denominator of the equation. By reducing public budgets, they’ve removed a critical source of demand — at a time when consumers and the private sector are still in the gravitational pull of the Great Recession and can’t make up the difference. The obvious result is a massive slowdown that has worsened the ratio of Europe’s debt to its total GDP and is plunging the continent into recession.

    A large debt with faster growth is preferable to a smaller debt sitting atop no growth at all. And it’s infinitely better than a smaller debt on top of a contracting economy.
    (more)
  • Pat 2012/05/08 13:07:21
    they are right to keep spending
    Pat
    +3
    We are NOT headed in the same direction unless we are fools enough to elect Romney. The reason Europe is in trouble now is that they have put in place severe austerity measures that are destroying the economy. Now the new president will move to increase taxes on corporations and wealthy individuals to get the economy going again. France is doing what we SHOULD be doing. The Republican plan is to gut social programs, things that people rely on every day and continue to give huge tax breaks to the wealthy and corporations who will continue to send their money to places like the Cayman Islands to avoid taxes. If Romney is elected and the GOP gets their way, we will find ourselves in the same position France is in now in a matter of two or three years. If you think it's bad now, wait a minute.
    Experience has shown that the economy booms when taxes are high and slumps when tax cuts kick in. Go look it up.
    The Republican plan is not the way to go. We need to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations, close loopholes, and re-invest in America.
  • BrianD3 Pat 2012/05/08 13:35:20
    BrianD3
    you blame the austerity measures not the burdensome debt that warrented the cuts? We cannot continue to spend more than we have in perpetuity. There will be a time where we are called in to account for what we owe.

    Raisning taxes on the wealthy does little to help if we do not make major cuts to spending.

    We should not single out a particular group for unequal treatment, we ought to institute a flat tax with no loopholes, deductions or credits. Let the liberals set the single tax rate at any level they wish.
  • Pat BrianD3 2012/05/08 13:49:38
    Pat
    +3
    No, I don't blame the austerity measures. The economists blame the austerity measures. And as I said, go back in U.S. history and you will see that when taxes were high, he economy boomed. We don't have a spending/deficit problem. We have an income problem. I am not in favor of a flat tax. I think one that is set too high will hurt the lower and middle classes and not achieve the desired result. But I am in favor of revising the tax code and eliminating all the loopholes that the wealthy and the corporations take advantage of. They have profited big time from our business and now it's not too much to ask that they pay even 3 or 4% more than they pay now. If you look back, under Eisenhower, the wealthy paid up to 90% in taxes and they were still wealthy. Under Clinton I believe it was about 39% but I'd have to look that up. Clinton left us with money in the bank followed by G.W who blew it all on unnecessary wars. We need more income. The middle class is not sitting on the wealth, the bazillionaires are. it's their patriotic duty to cough up a little more in taxes to get our country out of this mess. It should not be taken out of the hides of the poor, the sick, disabled and the middle class.
  • BrianD3 Pat 2012/05/08 14:39:08
    BrianD3
    some economists blame the austerity measures and those would be the ones that subscribe to the Kenysian school of economic thought.

    we have a spending problem, dont be fooled. We as individuals and collectivly as the free market can spend OUR money much more effeciently that some bloated, union corrupted government agency.
  • Pat BrianD3 2012/05/08 14:40:53
    Pat
    +3
    I totally disagree but I know I will never convince you.
  • BrianD3 Pat 2012/05/08 14:42:25
    BrianD3
    +1
    wise observation. Thanks for keeping things civil, I respect that.
  • LarryFine 2012/05/08 12:56:09
    well, they get what they deserve
    LarryFine
    They are quickly running out of sources to steal money from. Let's see how their newest addition attempts to pull a rabbit out of the hat.
  • Striker 2012/05/07 22:14:47
    WE are heading in the same direction
    Striker
    +2
    Never dig a hole so deep that you can't climb out of it. You won't be able to afford the ladder.
  • nverumind 2012/05/07 18:47:07
    WE are heading in the same direction
    nverumind
    +2
    If some Serious changes aren't made in governmnet , we'll be joining them.
  • BrianD3 nverumind 2012/05/08 10:59:47
    BrianD3
    +1
    no doubt about that
  • Pops 2012/05/07 18:40:06
    WE are heading in the same direction
    Pops
    +2
    As a human race we need a system that works. This one and theirs is not working !
  • BrianD3 Pops 2012/05/08 11:00:54
    BrianD3
    +1
    well said, cant keep stimulatiing and spending without having to account for it at some time
  • stevmackey 2012/05/07 18:38:18
    WE are heading in the same direction
    stevmackey
    +3
    Especially if the current administration remains in office.
  • Met 2012/05/07 17:37:55
    they are right to keep spending
    Met
    +2
    I can't help but notice they're kicking our ass in dollar value...

    lol.
  • BrianD3 Met 2012/05/08 10:59:27
    BrianD3
    as of yesterday, $1.00 us buys 1.303 Euro. dont know where you are getting your "facts" from. while there have been small spikes in the euros value that exchange rate is close to the avarage over the last few months.
  • Met BrianD3 2012/05/08 11:11:26 (edited)
    Met
    +2
    You got that backwards.

    1 euro buys 1.3 dollars. That's actually down, in lieu of the recent uncertainty, usually it's close to 1.5 to 1 in favor of the Euro. Which is why Europeans have been vacationing in America more, everything is dirt cheap here.

    next time you want to argue economics with an MBA, double check your facts.
    https://www.google.com/search...
  • BrianD3 Met 2012/05/08 11:18:12
    BrianD3
    so, I stand corrected mr MBA. The favorable exchange rate is good for us as it encourages them to but more of our goods and services.
  • Met BrianD3 2012/05/08 11:22:31
    Met
    +2
    That's one way of looking at it.

    Another would be that socialism isn't exactly a horrible business model. That's the view the NFL takes.
  • BrianD3 Met 2012/05/08 11:27:54
    BrianD3
    you claim to be an MBA but you do not recognize the inherant problems with a centrally planned economy and an entitlemet ideology that causes the government to perpetually spend more than it generated from tax revanue?
  • Met BrianD3 2012/05/08 11:35:24
    Met
    +2
    No, i'm an MBA that sees the problem in generating too little tax revenue to sustain your country.
  • BrianD3 Met 2012/05/08 11:52:40
    BrianD3
    so for you, it is a revenue problem, not a spending problem. got it.

    Even though the laffer curve is wildly inaccurate as a predictive tool, you do not believe that there is an element of truth to the idea that there is an upper limit to taxation where the marginal utility of increase is greatly diminished or that at some point there will actually be a negative effect upon revenue?

    France is proposing a 75% tax on the wealthy, you do not see that as having a dampening affect upon investment and the economy?
  • Met BrianD3 2012/05/08 12:02:38
    Met
    +2
    in the 50's we had a 91% high end tax rate.

    You know the 50's, the good old days the republicans want to take us back to? but this time, somehow without paying for it.

    You want a big army? You want extensive foreign policy protecting our interests? You gotta pay for it. You want the elderly and the young to be taken care of and not be left to die in the street? you gotta pay for it.

    Paying taxes is a patriotic duty. You love your country? You like the economic environment it provides for you to be successful and support your family with? You gotta pay for it.

    You like having agencies that make sure your toothpaste doesn't kill your family with lead poisoning, and keeps the urine content in the drinking water to a minimum? It's not free.

    Of course with a global economy you have to be careful, but in America, a 35% high end tax rate, with NO LOOPHOLES in the tax policy, would leave us with a healthy surplus.

    That's the liberal economic agenda. That's why warren buffet is voting for Obama. That's why i agree with him.
  • BrianD3 Met 2012/05/08 12:18:47
    BrianD3
    "Paying taxes is a patriotic duty" Great, something WE both agree on. Let us implement a flat tax that everyone pays without deductions or credits and the liberals can set the rate to whatever level they like.
  • Met BrianD3 2012/05/08 12:31:19
    Met
    +3
    depending on the fine print, i have no problem with that.

    but i'm not a lobbyist.
  • gary ® 2012/05/07 16:28:10
    well, they get what they deserve
    gary ®
    +1
    This should be fun to watch.
  • Mike 2012/05/07 16:23:26
    well, they get what they deserve
    Mike
    +2
    Exactly what entitlements do over time - sink their ship slowly

    In Europe its 10% THEM 90% THE REST
  • whitewulf--the unruly mobster 2012/05/07 14:09:43
  • JoeBtfsplk whitewu... 2012/05/07 14:22:40
    JoeBtfsplk
    +2
    And, considering this was the plan all along, I can't wait for the inevitable results.
  • JCD aka "biz" 2012/05/07 13:20:29
    they are right to keep spending
    JCD aka "biz"
    +2
    Austerity kills economic growth, and increases deficits, since people's incomes plunge, and tax receipts go down.
    I voted for Hollande (the new Socialist president of France), mostly because he wants to stimulate growth.
  • BrianD3 JCD aka... 2012/05/07 13:31:06
    BrianD3
    +2
    and who will pay for that stimulation?
  • JCD aka... BrianD3 2012/05/07 15:13:31
    JCD aka "biz"
    +2
    One example: the European Central Bank has financed the private banks to the tune of one thousand billion euros. It should now finance homeowners and small businesses.
  • BrianD3 JCD aka... 2012/05/07 15:19:11
    BrianD3
    with what money? How many defaults can there be on government bonds? who is going to be stupid enough to invest in something where you lose all your money?
  • JCD aka... BrianD3 2012/05/07 16:14:56
    JCD aka "biz"
    +2
    We were "broke" until our governments and the ECB decided that private banks were too big to fail. And no one suggests that we should lend money to homeowners the way your irresponsible private banks did. No subprimes here, thank you.
  • BrianD3 JCD aka... 2012/05/07 16:23:58
    BrianD3
    too big to fail means what to you?
  • JCD aka... BrianD3 2012/05/07 16:30:44
    JCD aka "biz"
    +2
    " Too big to fail", according to them, not to me. Still, our FDIC's depositors' guarantee is limited to 100 000 euros per bank, so many people were glad that the banks did not fail.
  • BrianD3 JCD aka... 2012/05/07 16:32:08
    BrianD3
    but who gurantees the banks and with what money?
  • JCD aka... BrianD3 2012/05/07 16:37:10
    JCD aka "biz"
    +1
    They have a special fund, bank money. I suppose it works the same way with your FDIC. Anyway, the bank bailout worked, so deposits are safe.

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