Dutch Involuntary Euthanasia: Death Panels?

Yes I do , and there are lots of dutch people here doing the same in this poll
We need to expose the lies of your conservative politicians about my country and Europe in general
Politicians like Rick Santorum , who have absolutely no shame to tell the insane lies about my country to get in the center of attention
Fact is our socialized healthcare IS fabulous, its EXCELLENT SERVICE lets nobody die.
This involuntary eutanasia is an insane lie by an insane man who risks a diplomatic incident with an allied country when he is still running to ne canditate for the presicency..
Santorum is already now lying trhough his teeth with his totaly twisted stories , I wonder what he will do if he "god" forbid becomes president ???

The reports you read are right out lies and deception put there by the health insurance companies to make the people afraid to accept socialized medicine for one reason only IT WILL COST THEM THE MONOPOLY ,It will cost them profit , money is more important than the affordability of healthcare to people..

The more I read your answer the more angry I get of your answer, tit is insulting it shows he total ignorance of fact checking befor you open your big mouth
That you are so convinced of your own righteousnesswithout this fact checking is just sickening .
You need to get a ferm kick under your butt to shake you back in the reality that you are lied to about almost anything where money is involved..
Open your damn eyes for what really is going on.

You know, I'm getting sick and tired of reading all about the nasty insurance companies and the cost of medical care, etc., and how these companies are ripping everybody off and whatnot.

First of all, you get an insurance company and it puts up the money to pay medical expenses and collects its premiums and so forth. Lots of folks participate in these insurance companies, lots of retirees get pensions from their stock portfolios which have insurance companies in them. A whole list of things come from insurance companies. Not all of insurance companies' business is spent ripping off the American public. Hey, they take the risks, they deserve some reward when the bet pays off. So let's stop criticizing insurance companies on the whole and delve into what can be done to change the situation of expensive medical treatments and people dying because of lack of money!

I don't know the answers to all of the questions. Hell, I don't even know where to begin. I am not an expert in the medical field. I am an expert, however, in the field of why some folks don't have a life because they've spent every last dime they owned on medical costs. (Hello, that's me, guys.) But, hey, I'm not griping, honest. I'm glad to be here and glad to be doing pretty well, all things considered.

But let's get back to the basic subject of what can we do to eliminate the excessive costs in the medical arena. For one, I would like to see some type of "independent" experts employed to track down all of the fraud and stealing that's going on and let's get RESTITUTION. I don't want to send these idiots to prison, where I get to pay to have them eat three squares and never worry about a roof over their heads, I want them to pay back the system(s) they have stolen from. Hey, novel idea. So many defendants are found guilty and then they get sent to prison and there is no restitution. That's not a win-win situation in my book.

But there should be some type of forum -- website maybe? -- people can go to input suggestions. Hey, just a little snippet here from this guy, another little one from there from that guy and eventually you've got a lot of subject matter at least covered. Then let's kick the ideas around. And responses can come from, "Hey, good idea but that second step isn't possible legally, so you will have to fix that first," or you get the idea.

Unlike Barack Obama, who thought he could sit down and write an entire medical care program for the entire country practically by himself, I believe there are a million or more great ideas out there in America which contain fragments of what could eventually become one good, solid medical plan for America. With input from "the people" for a change. "The people" who have the best interests of "the people," not solely themselves, at heart. Stop the blame game and let's get into the resolution game. Hey, what a welcome "change" that would be. You think?

I believe medical decisions should be up to the patients and their doctors, not government workers and/or departments. And money should not have to be a part of that decision. Euthanizing people? I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound humane at all. I don't like euthanizing animals, so I sure as hell don't want people to get euthanized! Nasty business.

Let me put it another way. I don't give a rat's fanny whether or not there are such things as Dutch death panels. You got that point yet? I thought I made that very clear in the very beginning. I commented merely on the basic, underlying meaning of the question posed and not on the assertion that there were, indeed, death panels. I admitted to not knowing and could therefore not comment.

I am so happy you are happy with the Netherlands. And I have talked with folks from other countries, including Canada, and yes, many of them are happy with their healthcare situations -- until something serious comes into play. Then they come to the United States to get fixed. Those that can afford it, that is.

As for your "death panels"? Perhaps I might just take some time and look into it and we can get back into this once again. I am in the middle of a job (which produces income for me) and can't do it right away, but I plan on it within the next 30 days sometime. I am wondering if perhaps there are differing viewpoints on the definition of "death panels" or something to that effect because there are too many intelligent individuals standing up and talking about the subject who know full well that if they're full of BS that they'll get shot down. And I cannot imagine anybody deliberating putting themselves on the firing line on such a touchy subject. That is what has me piqued on this topic.

Yes, I consider the word "ignorant" to be an insult because that is how the word has been used in the past several years. Perhaps you could try "uninformed." That is a much better term. I do not consider myself to be a rocket scientist but, hey, I have lived for 65 years and have experienced and witnessed things you will never in a million years be able to duplicate, believe me, and I always strive to be fair and impartial when I deal with any subject. But sometimes I run into cement walls that are hard to penetrate. In any event, I will bone up on this subject and perhaps we can get back into a discussion at a later date. An "informed" discussion. How about that?

I give up. You are an absolute jerk. Where do you get off telling me what time I have to do what and what I do or do not wish to hear. You have absolutely no knowledge or inkling what my life is all about and you have formed yet another knee-jerk reaction to my basic categorization of conservative.

I find it repulsive to even attempt to defend anything I've said. You are adept at twisting words to suit yourself and you, sir, don't want to hear the truth about anything yourself. You know it all, huh? Bull.

Now go away. I joined SodaHead because I wanted to be able to talk to all kinds of people about all kinds of subjects. There are so many things going on in this world that it is impossible -- get that point? -- impossible to handle all of them with full knowledge and research. I am in the middle of more than one project right now. There are only so many hours in a day and I've used way too many of them up on your silliness. Yes, I said I didn't give a rat's fanny (not ass, I didn't say ass, you did) about Dutch death panels. Gee, I wonder why? Hmmm? Because I'm not Dutch, you goof. Get it? But the subject did interest me and having heard about it I thought it would be nice to look stuff up and find out what the truth is underneath all the rhetoric. But it is not on the top of my importance list right now. So I decided to put it on my "schedule" to look it up when I get the time. What the hell is wrong with that? It is called prioritizing one's time. Ever heard of that concept?

Now I am sorry if my priority list doesn't comport with yours, but be honest with yourself and at least acknowledge the point that the Dutch healthcare system is not something that affects me right this minute. You got up on your high horse there and practically condemned me for not caring at all and, in that regard, you are totally, 100% wrong. I do care. But I cannot care and share and devote time and energy to every single wrong in this world. There just ain't enough time, kiddo. Give me a break.

This is a subject which is obviously dear to your heart and it was my intention to be honest and back away and let you get the input you're looking for, input which I am unable to give at this time. But you insist on making this into a personal attack. Hey, go back and read my original statements and see if you can't understand that nowhere was it my intention to belittle this subject at all. I admitted my ignorance of the facts. So why do you feel it is necessary to attack my belief system and my intelligence and everything else under color of class hatred or whatever it is that prompted your reaction? Methinks you are a wee bit unfair in this, my dear.

'Nuff said.

Excellent post Ruth Ann. Here is what I think on the subject. Government provided medical insurance has its place but it should not be the decision making agency. It should not be the sole provider either it needs competition. The private insurance companies are for profit and it would curb their greed significantly if they would not be able to refuse payments just because treatment becomes expensive. You are right, the insurance companies take the risk which means they know that the costs for insuring some people may well exceed the premiums they pay. For example someone has a treatable form of cancer which costs a lot of money and someone like me pays the premiums and so does the company I work for and we used at most 5% of that money. The insurance company makes the bet that people like are the large majority of insured customers and they will be able to keep some of the money. Now, the risk also means a possibility that the costs will exceed the income but the contract is a contract and must be enforced. The law needs to be changed so that insurance company cannot renege on it by refusing payment for a cancer patient. I don't mind that 95% of my unused premiums go to pay for someone's else treatment because I too entered a contract which stipulates that I help cover to pay in such case. Another idea is to establish medical savings accounts, a favorite republican proposal that was floating around congress. In that case I could get to keep the unused 95% of the money that went to premiums but it would make me the insurance company. Anyway we in USA already have government insurance that is Medicare for senior people and Medicaid for the poor. 0bama's care effectively defunds those two systems and phases out all the private insurance options becoming the 'single payer' without any competition and because it is government, people are denied choice. Some government pencil pusher, keyboard puncher, or a panel of experts a.k.a. 'death panel' will determine what if any treatment be approved. In case of say a cancer patient the 'single payer' may decide it is too expensive so it will suggest or pressure the doctor and patient that they just let it take its course and if pain becomes too unbearable the government will pay the doctor to kill you. That is in a nutshell the euthanasia the Dutch have and obamacare makes possible if implemented.

Good response all the way. We pretty much tend to think in a similar fashion. I am going to admit I am not 100% up to speed on the medical field and insurance, etc. I had a partial thyroidectomy back in 1980 that I had to pay for myself because I had just quit my job and hadn't gotten a new insurance policy yet when a lump appeared out of nowhere. So I know very well how expensive it is to be uninsured! But, on the other hand, I've had two hospitalizations that WERE covered by insurance and I wasn't denied any test and I think I got some very good treatment. I suppose there are going to be horror stories that abound on this subject as well as "good" stories. That's why I think we all need to put our heads together and cull out both the griping and the flowery praises and get to the heart of what precisely happens in various medical situations and what the bottom-line solution to the problem is going to be.

First off, you and I both know that when a bunch of folks get together to form a company to provide a service -- any company, of course, but we're talking insurance now so I'll stick with insurance -- that they are trying to "live the American dream" and get into the free market and make a few gazillion bucks. Heck, it's what we all want, one way or another. So you're going to have those folks who have mega feelings for people and who want to fix all the health problems in the country for minimal costs to them, and then there are going to be the corporate giants whose only job is to make sure that bottom-line figure every fiscal year reaches the recommended target. Those folks come off appearing robotic at times -- "inhuman" if you will -- because it looks like they don't care about the sick folks, just the monetary side of the picture. And, yeah, in some cases that's true. However, in most cases that is far from true. Those people butt their heads against walls every day trying to keep their own jobs while coming up with multifaceted solutions for the patients they cover. Not an easy task, I'm sure.

But when all is said and done, I think it would be really nice if tons and tons of folks made input into the subject matter here and, again, put aside any "super good" or "super nasty" feelings they have on this subject and just bat around some ideas until, voila! somebody comes up with a good basis for a fair solution. Are we beyond that capability anymore? I don't know. Seems like there isn't any tendency to try to compromise fairly anymore but more of this "kill the opposition and win the whole ball of wax" attitude. That's a shame because I happen to think there are real solutions to our medical problems in America but we aren't going to come up with them while the abrasive rhetoric continues to prevail.