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Does the Citizens United decision mean the end of democracy in America?

Mopvyzo 2012/06/27 01:31:37
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  • Lord Emperor Kami Guro Bage... 2012/06/29 12:46:05
  • rand 2012/06/28 03:18:39
    no
    rand
    ...but the plutocracy will prevail until Americans wise up to the deceptive nature of political advertising.
  • Keith 2012/06/27 15:53:38
    no
    Keith
    Democracy in America died when Richard Nixon was first elected president. LOL
  • KarenInKenoshaWisconsin 2012/06/27 15:33:57
  • Jane 2012/06/27 13:15:06
    yes
    Jane
    +2
    We are working on trading places with India with the help of people in the tea party.
  • Mopvyzo 2012/06/27 11:31:39
    yes
    Mopvyzo
    +1
    This country is going the same way Rome did... to it's inevitable downfall.
  • Lady Whitewolf 2012/06/27 10:26:25
    yes
    Lady Whitewolf
    +3
    It's becoming "WE THE WEALTHY" not "WE THE PEOPLE"
  • The_Infidel_Atheist 2012/06/27 08:34:21
    yes
    The_Infidel_Atheist
    +3
    America is now a plutocratic republic instead of a democratic republic.
  • Mike 2012/06/27 05:44:37
    no
    Mike
    +2
    It only represents what liberals have always known and conservatives have denied. Money = power= control. Now its documented.
  • EyeLovesJesus 2012/06/27 04:04:50
    undecided / don't know
    EyeLovesJesus
    Hello dear one.,..

    This is still a Republic not a democracy..

    With Love..In Christ.. :o)
    ((((((( HUGS )))))))
  • Jane EyeLove... 2012/06/27 13:21:15
    Jane
    Not a democracy? So with the love of a man who may have lived a couple of thousand years ago, you are willing to give in to fascism.
  • EyeLove... Jane 2012/06/27 15:36:36
    EyeLovesJesus
    Hello dear one..

    The word “democracy” appears nowhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution – two most fundamental documents of our nation. Instead of a democracy, the Constitution’s Article IV, Section 4, guarantees “to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government.” Moreover, let’s ask ourselves: Does our pledge of allegiance to the flag say to “the democracy for which it stands,” or does it say to “the republic for which it stands”? Or do we sing “The Battle Hymn of the Democracy” or “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”?

    =============================...


    Is the United States a democracy?

    The Pledge of Allegiance includes the phrase: "and to the republic for which it stands." Is the United States of America a republic? I always thought it was a democracy? What's the difference between the two?

    The United States is, indeed, a republic, not a democracy. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly--through town hall meetings or by voting on ballot initiatives and referendums. A republic, on the other hand, is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. The Framers of the Constitution were altogether fearful of pure democracy. Everything...
















    Hello dear one..

    The word “democracy” appears nowhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution – two most fundamental documents of our nation. Instead of a democracy, the Constitution’s Article IV, Section 4, guarantees “to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government.” Moreover, let’s ask ourselves: Does our pledge of allegiance to the flag say to “the democracy for which it stands,” or does it say to “the republic for which it stands”? Or do we sing “The Battle Hymn of the Democracy” or “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”?

    =============================...


    Is the United States a democracy?

    The Pledge of Allegiance includes the phrase: "and to the republic for which it stands." Is the United States of America a republic? I always thought it was a democracy? What's the difference between the two?

    The United States is, indeed, a republic, not a democracy. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly--through town hall meetings or by voting on ballot initiatives and referendums. A republic, on the other hand, is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. The Framers of the Constitution were altogether fearful of pure democracy. Everything they read and studied taught them that pure democracies "have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths" (Federalist No. 10).

    By popular usage, however, the word "democracy" come to mean a form of government in which the government derives its power from the people and is accountable to them for the use of that power. In this sense the United States might accurately be called a democracy. However, there are examples of "pure democracy" at work in the United States today that would probably trouble the Framers of the Constitution if they were still alive to see them. Many states allow for policy questions to be decided directly by the people by voting on ballot initiatives or referendums. (Initiatives originate with, or are initiated by, the people while referendums originate with, or are referred to the people by, a state's legislative body.) That the Constitution does not provide for national ballot initiatives or referendums is indicative of the Framers' opposition to such mechanisms. They were not confident that the people had the time, wisdom or level-headedness to make complex decisions, such as those that are often presented on ballots on election day.

    Writing of the merits of a republican or representative form of government, James Madison observed that one of the most important differences between a democracy and a republic is "the delegation of the government [in a republic] to a small number of citizens elected by the rest." The primary effect of such a scheme, Madison continued, was to:

    . . . refine and enlarge the public views by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country and whose patriotism and love of justice will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations. Under such a regulation it may well happen that the public voice, pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good than if pronounced by the people themselves, convened for the same purpose (Federalist No. 10).

    Later, Madison elaborated on the importance of "refining and enlarging the public views" through a scheme of representation:

    There are particular moments in public affairs when the people, stimulated by some irregular passion, or some illicit advantage, or misled by the artful misrepresentations of interested men, may call for measures which they themselves will afterwards be most ready to lament and condemn. In these critical moments, how salutary will be the interference of some temperate and respectable body of citizens, in order to check the misguided career and to suspend the blow meditated by the people against themselves, until reason, justice and truth can regain their authority over the public mind(Federalist No. 63).

    In the strictest sense of the word, the system of government established by the Constitution was never intended to be a "democracy." This is evident not only in the wording of the Pledge of Allegiance but in the Constitution itself which declares that "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government" (Article IV, Section 4). Moreover, the scheme of representation and the various mechanisms for selecting representatives established by the Constitution were clearly intended to produce a republic, not a democracy.

    To the extent that the United States of America has moved away from its republican roots and become more "democratic," it has strayed from the intentions of the Constitution's authors. Whether or not the trend toward more direct democracy would be smiled upon by the Framers depends on the answer to another question. Are the American people today sufficiently better informed and otherwise equipped to be wise and prudent democratic citizens than were American citizens in the late 1700s? By all accounts, the answer to this second question is an emphatic "no."


    ((((((( HUGS )))))))
    (more)
  • Jane EyeLove... 2012/06/27 20:19:37
    Jane
    Apples and Oranges, you are still allowing our government to become fascist while you are arguing over whose religion is right and whose got the right perspective on ancient documents that should probably be change to accommodate modern times.
    Come on dude talk to me with your own words.
  • EyeLove... Jane 2012/06/27 23:31:06 (edited)
    EyeLovesJesus
    Hello dear one..

    I have never been called a dude before..But this is Ok..LOL

    First of all I do not argue over religion..I do not like religion..

    Second of all I do not want our Government to become a socialistic or communist Country..So I am not a fascist..

    I am a woman who believes in putting God first in my life..I lift up my leaders every day & ask the Lord to keep them & their loved ones safe..

    I do not believe in using any type of violence to win an argument or to get my way..

    My heart is for those that are homeless & the widows..

    The young children that do not have any choice, but to pay back the huge dept we have given to them..

    I remember when I was a teenager, I would see an older person crossing the road I would help them..Or someone that needed their lawn mowed (I did not charge them)..

    I have seen how this world has become so very selfish (me generation)..

    Let us take the time to ask someone if they need to have their garbage taken out..or their lawn mowed..or their rent paid..etc..

    If everyone did that to just one person, then it could become once again, the GREAT AMERICA it used to be..

    With Love..In Christ..
    ((((((( HUGS )))))))
  • Jane EyeLove... 2012/06/28 00:22:16
    Jane
    Obama cares for the down and out, not the other guys and he wants to get rid of the dept, but right wing people don't want to make the 1% pay their fair share.
    My husband and I do all those things and more, it is not enough to keep up with the growing poor and homeless. When this country got in trouble before it was the government that led the way.
    Maybe if churches and the people who run them paid their share of taxes it would help.
    Some of my ancestors were forced to accept your christ in order to eat after these same christians stole their lands.
  • jesus christ 2012/06/27 03:50:18
    no
    jesus christ
    +1
    our democracy was sold long before citizens united. it just makes it easier.
  • sjalan 2012/06/27 03:41:40
    yes
    sjalan
    +2
    And the beginning of Fascism in America.
  • Jane sjalan 2012/06/27 13:17:39
    Jane
    You don't think the corporations have taken control? You believe that President Obama has a chance to save us? Please encourage me.
  • sjalan Jane 2012/06/28 03:34:30
    sjalan
    IF, Romney is elected we have no hope of recovering as members of the middle class. It will withing 6 years start a revolution within our country that will result in massive violence against corporations and the Fascist government they will establish as has been done in Michigan and Wisconsin.
  • Jane sjalan 2012/06/28 11:21:47
    Jane
    I thought that was just a nightmare I had. I'm one of the fortunate in that I have the ability to leave the country and live well else where.
    I'm so sad about Wisconsin, I always loved that state and I'm sick about the christian right taking over.
    Unfortunately, the uber wealthy that control the world have the election in their pockets. I just can't figure out how they got all these christians to go along with them, it must be their self righteous nature.
  • sjalan Jane 2012/06/30 05:38:14
    sjalan
    Jane you really don't understand what has happened over the last 30 years in the US.

    Starting in the early 1980's the religious right ie Evangelicals, Televangelicals and ultra conservatives have been building a network within local governments. It was a goal started by Robertson. That spidersweb of deciet has filtered into local governments in almost every state. See www.theocracywatch.org.

    They set about to take control of the Republican Party. PERIOD. It was their goal that before 2000 they could control the individual states Republcians parties and put ultra conservative Republicans in place where ever they could to support their religious agenda.

    Once the accomplished that you saw the results in the Bush II election in 2000. Bush II should NEVER have won. BUT since the SCOTUS was a conservative court they put their noses in where they should NEVER have done so in the Florida flap over hanging chads and recounts. (Remember Jeb Bush was the Governor of Florida at the time, the fix was in.)

    At this point you have the first two heads of the four headed hydra of Fascism established. The alliance between the Uber conservatives of both the Relgious and Political Groups.

    NEXT was the finiancial support to get the job done of taking the Congress and the Presidency. Stir the pot and...





    Jane you really don't understand what has happened over the last 30 years in the US.

    Starting in the early 1980's the religious right ie Evangelicals, Televangelicals and ultra conservatives have been building a network within local governments. It was a goal started by Robertson. That spidersweb of deciet has filtered into local governments in almost every state. See www.theocracywatch.org.

    They set about to take control of the Republican Party. PERIOD. It was their goal that before 2000 they could control the individual states Republcians parties and put ultra conservative Republicans in place where ever they could to support their religious agenda.

    Once the accomplished that you saw the results in the Bush II election in 2000. Bush II should NEVER have won. BUT since the SCOTUS was a conservative court they put their noses in where they should NEVER have done so in the Florida flap over hanging chads and recounts. (Remember Jeb Bush was the Governor of Florida at the time, the fix was in.)

    At this point you have the first two heads of the four headed hydra of Fascism established. The alliance between the Uber conservatives of both the Relgious and Political Groups.

    NEXT was the finiancial support to get the job done of taking the Congress and the Presidency. Stir the pot and up pops this suddenly create thing called the Tea Party. Well in the middle of a recession, with people out of work BIG LIES will be swallowed by a disillusioned electorate. Hence the take over of the House and a filibustering minority in the Senate in 2010 and you have legislative grindlock. You could pass a bill in the Congress unless it was for dogcatcher and then the dog catcher had to be ultra conservative to get the job.

    Now the real kicker in all this is the SCOTUS. Conserative majority needs big money to fund the takeover of the Senate and the House and the Presidency. Who else but industrialist/big business/billionaires. Pass a law that allows corporations to spend unlimited amounts of money via PAC's and you BUY ELECTIONS.

    There in you now have the total four headed hydra of Amercian Fascism, The alliance between the Radical Rabid Religious Right + the Republican/Tea Party + the industrialist/Billionaires with the SCOTUS rubberstamping everything they want done.

    IF Romney is elected President and the Senate and House are lost to 2/3rds majorities to the Republicans we will truely have a SINGLE PARTY FASCIST STATE, EXACTLY LIKE WAS CREATED IN NAZI GERMANY IN THE 19330'S AND 40'S.
    (more)
  • Jane sjalan 2012/07/02 03:56:48
    Jane
    Yes I do understand, I read Jeff Sharlet's book The Family, it lays it all out but the brainwashed Americans are not going to read it, just their bibles.
  • sjalan Jane 2012/07/02 05:09:07
    sjalan
    That's right! and have their ears tickled by the liar priests and pastors and ministers of their false dogma, doctrine and beliefs churches.
  • Jane sjalan 2012/07/02 13:00:34
    Jane
    +1
    That is the REAL danger to our country.
  • sjalan Jane 2012/07/04 07:03:57
    sjalan
    I know what I have been doing to make people aware of this, what are you doing?
  • Jane sjalan 2012/07/04 12:33:18
    Jane
    Well, not much I can do now that I'm an outcast in the bible belt. Got any suggestions?
  • sjalan Jane 2012/07/04 16:17:22
    sjalan
    Post on as many web-blogs this kind of information about the REAL dangers of false worship of theses politically involved religions.

    in other words spread the THUTH about organized religion and their involvement in politics, in violation of the first amendment and the seperation of church and state.

    Here is a helpful site: www.theocracywatch.org

    Lots of very interesting information which can easily be verified at other sites for backup of what they have postedon their blog.
  • Jane sjalan 2012/07/04 17:53:36
    Jane
    Very interesting site, thanks.
  • sjalan Jane 2012/07/04 19:07:13
    sjalan
    You're welcome. It provides a history of the attack on government by the religious right. The net result being that they are attempting to form a fascist government today along with the Republicans and the ultra rich industrialists creating part of the multi-headed hydra of suppression within the US of basic freedoms and liberties of ALL CITIZENS>
  • Jane sjalan 2012/07/05 05:40:14
    Jane
    It is going to be an interesting world for our grandchildren.
  • sjalan Jane 2012/07/05 05:46:27
    sjalan
    Actually, the ones that will be on the point are those of us who remember WWII Fascism and the horror of that period.

    Those memories will without doubt bring an end to the attacks of organized religion against our civil government and their attempts to 'enslave' us to their theocracy.
  • Jane sjalan 2012/07/05 12:59:46
    Jane
    Religion gets its strength by controlling education and we need to get back the public schools I went to in the 50's and 60's.
  • sjalan Jane 2012/07/05 23:20:54
    sjalan
    Yep I agree completely. The push to private "voucher" programs is a use of public funds to fund private business. It has been proven from results in three states that "voucher schools" do not do as good a job as public schools.

    What is the solution? I haven't a clue anymore.
  • Jane sjalan 2012/07/06 12:16:37
    Jane
    I just hope there are enough intelligent, informed young people (like my children) to make a difference. My self, I will no doubt leave the good old US.
  • Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC 2012/06/27 03:13:23
    undecided / don't know
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    +2
    It should have never happened.
  • Jackie G - Poker Playing Pa... 2012/06/27 03:06:42 (edited)
    no
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    Try reading it - stupid question

    Must be getting the excuses ready for Obama loss - good to know!
  • Mopvyzo Jackie ... 2012/06/27 13:21:02
  • Jackie ... Mopvyzo 2012/06/27 13:33:49
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    When will you start?
  • Jane Jackie ... 2012/06/27 13:22:43
    Jane
    So you support the citizens united decision?
  • Jackie ... Jane 2012/06/27 13:33:36 (edited)
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    It is a decision by the SC - I read it and the decision was made on the constitution. There is nothing to support or not support. It is not a cheerleading contest, it is a decision by our highest court.

    If people want to change it, write a new law that passes constitutional muster.

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