None of the answers are correct. We fought a Civil War about succession. Once a State is part of the Union it is always a part of the Union. There is a procedure to enter but none to leave the Union. However, Texas can divide itself into 5 different States I believe based upon its original admittance to the Union. The 10th Amendment address what powers the Federal Government has, which the States have and what is up to the Citizens.
The Federal Government has been violating the 10th Amendment for years as have many States. Article 1, Section 8 and several other Amendments detail what power the Federal Government has. It may not do anything else. Everyone should get a copy of the US Constitution and read it and then compare what the Federal Government is doing with the list of powers the Federal Government is doing. Most of what the Federal Government is doing is unconstitutional. And many of the States are violating the restrictions as well.
The US Constitution is not a "living" document that can be redefined when what the text states is inconvenient. It is because people have been doing this for more than 100 years we have the current problems. The US Constitution is a BLUEPRINT for a Representative Government. Image building a deck, house, boat, ship, b...""'
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The Federal Government has been violating the 10th Amendment for years as have many States. Article 1, Section 8 and several other Amendments detail what power the Federal Government has. It may not do anything else. Everyone should get a copy of the US Constitution and read it and then compare what the Federal Government is doing with the list of powers the Federal Government is doing. Most of what the Federal Government is doing is unconstitutional. And many of the States are violating the restrictions as well.
The US Constitution is not a "living" document that can be redefined when what the text states is inconvenient. It is because people have been doing this for more than 100 years we have the current problems. The US Constitution is a BLUEPRINT for a Representative Government. Image building a deck, house, boat, ship, b...""'
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None of the answers are correct. We fought a Civil War about succession. Once a State is part of the Union it is always a part of the Union. There is a procedure to enter but none to leave the Union. However, Texas can divide itself into 5 different States I believe based upon its original admittance to the Union. The 10th Amendment address what powers the Federal Government has, which the States have and what is up to the Citizens.
The Federal Government has been violating the 10th Amendment for years as have many States. Article 1, Section 8 and several other Amendments detail what power the Federal Government has. It may not do anything else. Everyone should get a copy of the US Constitution and read it and then compare what the Federal Government is doing with the list of powers the Federal Government is doing. Most of what the Federal Government is doing is unconstitutional. And many of the States are violating the restrictions as well.
The US Constitution is not a "living" document that can be redefined when what the text states is inconvenient. It is because people have been doing this for more than 100 years we have the current problems. The US Constitution is a BLUEPRINT for a Representative Government. Image building a deck, house, boat, ship, bridge or building using the blueprints as a "living document" that can be changed at the whim of the people building it. It would be a disaster - the structure would collapse or boat/ship sink. We need to get back to the BLUEPRINT and follow it. The Founding Father's wrote an excellent document that if followed will give us just the amount of Government we need and no more.
Also, remember, it was "Progressives", like Hillary Clinton claims she is, that gave us the disaster of "prohibition" in the form of the 18th Amendment. "Progressives" are the same thing we call Socialist, Marxists and Liberals today. Look past the pretty names, such as "Progressive", and look at what they did, actually stand for and support. And then ask yourself do you really want to go down that route? It was Progressives that support eugenics, euthanasia and forced sterilizing of "undesirables". The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment was type of things progressive believed in. The founder of Planned Parenthood was also a eugenics and racist. It is important to remember that "Progressive" have no problem re-writing history. Just look at how the history of the fall of the USSR is being re-written. Apparently, Gorbachev is being given credit today even though Ronald Regan refusal to keep giving in to the USSR is what forced the USSR to real reform which lead to the elimination of the USSR. Gorbachev was the fourth USSR dictator Regan dealt with.
Everyone should get a copy of the US Constitution, the Article of Confederation (preceded the US Constitution) , their State Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and read them. What they state may shock you - especially in light of what is going on today.
(more)The Federal Government has been violating the 10th Amendment for years as have many States. Article 1, Section 8 and several other Amendments detail what power the Federal Government has. It may not do anything else. Everyone should get a copy of the US Constitution and read it and then compare what the Federal Government is doing with the list of powers the Federal Government is doing. Most of what the Federal Government is doing is unconstitutional. And many of the States are violating the restrictions as well.
The US Constitution is not a "living" document that can be redefined when what the text states is inconvenient. It is because people have been doing this for more than 100 years we have the current problems. The US Constitution is a BLUEPRINT for a Representative Government. Image building a deck, house, boat, ship, bridge or building using the blueprints as a "living document" that can be changed at the whim of the people building it. It would be a disaster - the structure would collapse or boat/ship sink. We need to get back to the BLUEPRINT and follow it. The Founding Father's wrote an excellent document that if followed will give us just the amount of Government we need and no more.
Also, remember, it was "Progressives", like Hillary Clinton claims she is, that gave us the disaster of "prohibition" in the form of the 18th Amendment. "Progressives" are the same thing we call Socialist, Marxists and Liberals today. Look past the pretty names, such as "Progressive", and look at what they did, actually stand for and support. And then ask yourself do you really want to go down that route? It was Progressives that support eugenics, euthanasia and forced sterilizing of "undesirables". The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment was type of things progressive believed in. The founder of Planned Parenthood was also a eugenics and racist. It is important to remember that "Progressive" have no problem re-writing history. Just look at how the history of the fall of the USSR is being re-written. Apparently, Gorbachev is being given credit today even though Ronald Regan refusal to keep giving in to the USSR is what forced the USSR to real reform which lead to the elimination of the USSR. Gorbachev was the fourth USSR dictator Regan dealt with.
Everyone should get a copy of the US Constitution, the Article of Confederation (preceded the US Constitution) , their State Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and read them. What they state may shock you - especially in light of what is going on today.
Succession is such a power, and as such, should a state feel the federal power structure is becoming too powerful, then I believe succession is not only allowed but necessary. The south had the right idea but for the wrong reason, as slavery inhibits a man's freedom. Therefore succession should only be an option when the founding principles are threatened and freedom threatened. But yes it is a right and in times like these, a rather tempting thought.
But if Texas dcided to try to leave,there wouldn't have to be a second civil war. Even if a state had the legal right to leave the U.S., practically speaking, it could not. No one state produces everything it needs to survive. Every state, every region of the country is interdependent and cannot survive without the rest of the country. A seperate republic of Texas would last about a week before economic realities forced it to petition to re-enter the U.S. As for a "new CSA" based on the orignal, it would last maybe two weeks.
Finally, I don't care what the Texas constitution says. The tenth amendment's true meaning would be determined by the U.S. supreme court. Good luck getting them to bite off on secession!
You couldn't "hike" the prices of the food you send to the rest of the U.S. because we already produce enough food without Texas to pay farmers not to produce anymore. In fact Republic of Texas exports would have to pay tarriffs to the U.S. government. Most of your "space industry assets"belong to the U.S. government, not Texas.
As for Andrew Jackson, it wasn't what he "thinks" or rather thought (news flash for you, he is dead) but the accurate and cogent argument the man from Tennesee made that seccession violated the Constitution.
You are correct about one thing, the United Staes won a military victory in the Civil War, but...
You couldn't "hike" the prices of the food you send to the rest of the U.S. because we already produce enough food without Texas to pay farmers not to produce anymore. In fact Republic of Texas exports would have to pay tarriffs to the U.S. government. Most of your "space industry assets"belong to the U.S. government, not Texas.
As for Andrew Jackson, it wasn't what he "thinks" or rather thought (news flash for you, he is dead) but the accurate and cogent argument the man from Tennesee made that seccession violated the Constitution.
You are correct about one thing, the United Staes won a military victory in the Civil War, but that didn't make it's position right. The U.S. was right that the Constitution did not allow for secession, and would have been even if victory had not been to the Stars and Stripes.
As for a catastrophe if you seceede, please, most of us wouldn't even notice until the Mexican border moved to Oklahoma.
Another president by the name of Thomas Jefferson in his inaugural address affirmed the right of secession. The States of New York, Virginia, and Rhode Island refused to ratify the constitution unless they had the right to seceed. Secession clauses are in their ratification documents for heaven sakes! If we divided the factions as if they were sports teams, on one team would be all the above mentioned anti-federalists and moderate federalists. The other team would would consist of you, Alexander Hamilton, and all the other extreme federalist control freaks. The fact is your side lost at the Constitutional Convention! Of course that ideal of a limited,debt free, decentralized, in a country consisting of a compact of soverign states was betrayed and destroyed by Lincoln. We ...
Another president by the name of Thomas Jefferson in his inaugural address affirmed the right of secession. The States of New York, Virginia, and Rhode Island refused to ratify the constitution unless they had the right to seceed. Secession clauses are in their ratification documents for heaven sakes! If we divided the factions as if they were sports teams, on one team would be all the above mentioned anti-federalists and moderate federalists. The other team would would consist of you, Alexander Hamilton, and all the other extreme federalist control freaks. The fact is your side lost at the Constitutional Convention! Of course that ideal of a limited,debt free, decentralized, in a country consisting of a compact of soverign states was betrayed and destroyed by Lincoln. We are the United States only in name now, in reality what we are (or are rapidly becoming) is The United State (singular). That is more like Soviet thinking and not authentically American. I think it is worth mentioning that by the 1860's, Great Britain was probably the most anti-slavery nation in the world. England, with it's powerful navy and vast empire was in a unique position to halt the slave trade on a grand scale and literally almost overnight. The other European powers had abolished slavery by that time also. This causes me to ask why was the editorial support of almost every major newspaper in the most abolishionist society in the western world almost exclusivley in support of the Confederacy? Why were America's two most well known abolishionists, Tribune editor Horace Greely and the other fellow (I always forget his name) severly critical of Lincoln and condemned his war. Why was there so much northern editorial sympathy for the South?. So much sympathy that Lincoln jailed newspaper editors without charge and censored the Northern Press. The most prominant european intellectual that stated support for Lincoln was in fact Karl Marx. (It is also interesting to note that Adolph Hitler was a non-contemporary admirer of Lincoln).
Next thing, I am not aware of any evidence that Mexico has any aggressive designs on her nieghbors. Mexico is much stronger than Guatamala. Why hasn't Mexico attacked them yet? Also, I am not a military expert but I would guess that overwhelmingly superior air Power, better leadership, weapons and training might compensate for the difference of foot soldiers. (Perhaps there is an informed amateur or professional military historian or tactician out there who could contribute to our conversation.) Besides, my guess is that the United States (who wouldn't even have to bother its AirForce, Army or Marines because she could obliterate Mexico with just the U.S.Navey alone.) wouldn't allow it any more that they would allow China to invade Mexico.
Also I would courteously submit to you that your claim " most of us wouldn't even notice" is naive. The entire state of Texas is a vast transport hub and a heart that pumps goods and supplies to other regions. It is more interconnected than even the northeastern Boston-NYC-DC transport axis. Without Texas, the country's regions would be virtually cut off from each other. Austin has much more leverage with Washinton D.C. than Kiev or Minsk ever did with Moscow. As one economist said, "The loss of a region larger than that of France (269,000 sq. miles) would leave a lot of the United States cut off not just from the other states but from Central American supply feeds that straddle Texas. Also, If you have enough food, why do you import so much from us. Besides, I would bet that some or all of the plains states would follow us out. Ten other states have already publicly mentioned the S word. Also, As far as medicare is concerned,the monies for bankrupt federal entitlement programs is initially extracted from the states anyway. I admit I can't predict exactly what would happen but I do know that, as I said before, if we were independant today we would be the 11th largest economy in the world and frankly I think Texas could be a strong regional nation with substantial influence on its neighbors. Also, I still say Texas can take full advantage of its geography for tourism, off shore drilling,numerous natural gas reserves, and fisheries. Also, Texas could make international agreements ,trade with whomever we wish, enter into economic blocks on our own terms, be on a gold standard, and if I know my fellow Texians, our new constituion will prohibit any direct tax on income and property taxes. I think we would have a national sales tax , various types of consumption taxes, various hotel and tourism taxes, and a state lottery .(And before you make any desparaging remarks about who in their right mind would travel to Texas, the main industry here in San Antonio is conventions and tourism.)
Consumption taxes are the way to go! This is a lesson the U.S. Congress is to stupid to learn. The U.S. is the only industialized nation since WWII not to have a major tax reform and it never will. Largley because both criminal parties in Washinton D.C. manipulate the tax code to make their special interests happy. If we did these things, and I believe we would, I think The Republic of Texas would within a short time be in pretty good shape. We have no moral obligation as a state or as a people to remain in an increasingly impoverished political union that is recklessly printing currency, further nationalizing its financial system and other major industries, continuing the runaway growth and centralization of the federal government and its hold on the ecocomy, expanding the welfare state,expanding the warfare state and looking to China and other nations to foot the bill and keep us afloat because the United States Congress's fifty year raid on the public treasury have left us broke and in 12 trillion in debt.
Again, I would reiterate and submit yet again that your assertion (and the assertion of many others on this blog) that secession is agaist the constitution is based on nothing of substance and is unhistorical. Neither the Texas Constitution nor The U.S. Constitution explicitly or implicitly disallows secession. Joining the union was ever and always voluntary and is a compact between free and soverign states. Read the Kentucky and Virginia resolutions written by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison respectivly. James Madison is the Constitutions principle author. Even Lincoln defended this principle as a congressman in 1847 until he magically changed his mind and decided to be a tyrant instead of a president. As a matter of fact, the best example of an illegal secession that I can think of is the American Revolution. In 1860, when South Carolina reasserted that it was a sovereign state, it was on firmer legal ground than Thomas Jefferson was when he Drafted the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration of Independence proclaimed that the colonies were "free and independent states". IN FACT, THEY WERE NOT; they were British colonies under colonial charters. The crown and Parliment were lawfully sovereign over the American colonies. THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION WAS AN ILLEGAL INSURRECTION!!!!!!! NEVER THE LESS, THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS, THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION,AND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES ALL RESTED ON JEFFERSON'S ASSERTION THAT THE COLONIES WERE "FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES." THIS IS WHY STATES RATIFIED THE CONSTITUTION AND NOT A MASS MAJORITY VOTE OF ALL THE PEOPLE COLLECTIVELY. STATE SOVEREIGNTY WAS THE CORNERSTONE OF AMERICA'S POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY. GIVEN THESE PRECEDENTS, SOUTH CAROLINA'S DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE IN 1860 OR A PRESENT DAY TEXAS OR CALIFORNIA OR VERMONT OR A HAWAIIAN, DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE IS A MUCH LESS RADICAL STEP THAN THE ORIGINAL DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. Perhaps you and everyone else who worries about secession's legality should testify before Congress, and Obama and convince them and the American people that we need to cede American sovereignty back to England. Go see good Queen Elizabeth II and tell her we're sorry mum it was all a big mistake!
It's quite remarkable when you think about it. A bunch of unrefined, enterprising, underfunded, under equipted, overwhelmingly outnumbered and outgunned, colonial roughnecks told the most powerful empire on earth that our taxes are to high so piss off! (And you think Texas should worry about Mexico!?.) Secession movements go back centuries even before Christ. It even happened in ancient Greece and that was over taxes too. The Athenians slaughterd the secessionists and punished them for years after it was over. Then, after the long march of time, it happend. In 1776 A.D., on the north American continent, the political equivelent to the "BIG BANG" occured that changed everything forever! Without any legal or successful historical precedent, the American colonists in the person of Thomas Jefferson claimed that, legal or not, the right of free association was a basic right of nature and of nature's God. And they unbelievably pulled it off! When the treaty of Paris was signed bringing the American Revolution to a conclusion, Great Britain officially recognized not one but 13 new nations in the world. These nations, by there own authority, dissolved the union known as the Articles Of Confederation. Again, they, voluntarily and by their own authority, created "a more perfect union". By their own authority and by state convention they got in and in the same way they can get out. If they cannot, they are not really free. If you make it you can break it! The words "Nation, perpetual and Country" are not ever used in any of our founding documents. That is because we are NOT a nation we are a union of nations. That is the REAL AMERICA, the America born in 1776 and the America that was murdered at the Appomatox court house. Sorry if I was a bit terse but this is an issue that is very close to my heart and I don't like the implication of treason from many on this blog. Traitor? Traitor to what! Washington D.C.? It is Washington D.C. THAT IS THE TRAITOR!! But if I am wrong? As one great, early american patriot put it, "if this be treason then make the most of it!"
From occupied Texas, Good luck,prosperity, and best wishes to you and yours!
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
So if the 10th Amendment gives to the States and people that which the Federal government is not specifically given, and Article IV says that all states must honor the acts of all other states, it would be reasonable to presume that a state can secede upon due action of its government. At that time, other states no longer have to honor its acts, and we can have another Civil War.
If Texas wants to leave, let them leave. But they'll have to pay for the wall on their border. I'm sure the Minutemen will be able to raise the money. And we'll want back everthing the U.S. government ever spent in that state - all the military bases, highways, university funding, harbor dredging, hurricane rebuilding, space research facilities, etc. They can have the Bush family, but they'll have to take Jeb with them.
groups in control of that too, As we need actions to do better for the kids, and future people of this great country ,
and the greedy crooks, should be sleeping next to Gotti and special crooks, in FEderal Prisons , yes ,not trails just send them directly to Ft, Weavenworth Pen,, DJ..our Congress Suck's of liars and GREEd to much,,,,screw them
Well it looks like to me that if it isn't spelled out in the constitution and the states haven't granted the athority to the Federal goverment, then the states/people have the final say so.
The Federal Government was setup to work for the state
but through the years it has changed and the state is working for the Federal Government. Change it back and
see how our country will recover.
Allen J. Duffis
Editor
The Conservative Independent
www.conserveind.com