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Does Romney and other Mormons believe that black people are the children of Cain?

bob 2012/04/06 17:02:29
Related Topics: Romney, Cain, Mormon
Mormons scripture states that black people are the children of Cain
Mormon Romney believes that black people are the children of Cain
Romney is not religious Mormon, and flips and flopps on his beliefs
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  • Andrew 2012/04/06 17:05:22
    None of the above
    Andrew
    +3
    Think logically! Everyone pre-flood died except for Noah and his family! That means we are all descendant of Noah! Cain was pre-flood!

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  • Candace Washington 2012/04/08 02:49:46
    Undecided
    Candace Washington
    i don't know, but I hope not
  • schjaz 2012/04/07 16:04:59
    None of the above
    schjaz
    Why don't ya ask Harry Reid? He is a mormon.
  • frank 2012/04/07 15:48:06
    Undecided
    frank
    I don't know what the Mormon religion says.
  • voice_matters 2012/04/06 20:10:40
    None of the above
    voice_matters
    hey libby can you stop with this stupidity and ignorance? nevermind it is all you know
  • bob voice_m... 2012/04/06 20:29:13
    bob
    +1
    ok commie conservative
  • Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥ 2012/04/06 19:50:56 (edited)
    None of the above
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    +1
    I am LDS and, speaking for myself, I understand that some black people are descended from Cain through Ham's wife Egyptus. What of it? That doesn't mean all humans are not related to each other.

    [Not all people descended from Cain have dark skin.
    And not all people with dark skin are descended from Cain.]
  • bob Dave Sa... 2012/04/06 20:30:11
    bob
    actually the bible is just a bunch of fairy stories
  • Dave Sa... bob 2012/04/07 01:02:03
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Actually, you are wrong.
  • CMackle... bob 2012/04/08 00:12:34
    CMackley ~POTL~PWCM~JLA
    No, that would be your bio. homosexual
  • my2cents Dave Sa... 2012/04/06 20:32:49 (edited)
    my2cents
    +1
    But all people with dark skin were forbidden to hold the priesthood in the Mormon church up until the mid-1970s, when the church president declared God had sent him a revelation telling him to allow blacks to hold the priesthood.

    And Mormons still believe that black skin is the "mark" given to Cain by God so all who saw him would know what he had done. The Church simply doesn't discriminate against it's black members because of it anymore.
  • Dave Sa... my2cents 2012/04/07 01:05:35
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    +1
    I was a member when that revelation was given and was glad for it, as was the President and the Twelve.

    Mormons aren't the only ones who believe blackness was Cain's curse.

    And if we Mormons are right, Cain was not the only one who received such a curse.
  • my2cents Dave Sa... 2012/04/07 20:05:40 (edited)
    my2cents
    I bet the church WAS happy, the discrimination made Mormonism a hard sell in many parts of the world.

    I just wonder how those people feel knowing you still consider their skin color a "curse". Oh well.

    Who other denominations believe this? The first time I ever heard it was from Mormon missionaries.
  • Dave Sa... my2cents 2012/04/08 00:53:17
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    I believe what God says. Didn't you know the whole Earth is cursed?

    Do you know what a curse is? It is the removal of blessings you might otherwise have received.

    The idea has been around a long time.

    The rest from Wikipedia:

    Early and modern Christian

    According to scholars, early interpretations of the Bible in Syriac Christianity combined the "curse" with the "mark", and interpreted the curse of Cain as black skin. Some argue that this may have originated from rabbinic texts, which interpreted a passage in the Book of Genesis ("And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell") as implying that Cain underwent a permanent change in skin color.

    The Church Father Ephrem the Syrian (306-378): “Abel was bright as the light, / but the murderer (Cain) was dark as the darkness".

    In an Eastern Christian (Armenian) Adam-book (5th or 6th century) it is written: “And the Lord was wroth with Cain. . . He beat Cain’s face with hail, which blackened like coal, and thus he remained with a black face".

    The Irish Saltair na Rann (The Versified Psalter, AD 988), records Gabriel announcing to Adam: "Dark rough senseless Cain is going to kill Abel".

    Adoption by Protestant groups

    The split between the Northern and Southern Baptist organizations arose over slavery and the education of slaves. At the time o...





    I believe what God says. Didn't you know the whole Earth is cursed?

    Do you know what a curse is? It is the removal of blessings you might otherwise have received.

    The idea has been around a long time.

    The rest from Wikipedia:

    Early and modern Christian

    According to scholars, early interpretations of the Bible in Syriac Christianity combined the "curse" with the "mark", and interpreted the curse of Cain as black skin. Some argue that this may have originated from rabbinic texts, which interpreted a passage in the Book of Genesis ("And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell") as implying that Cain underwent a permanent change in skin color.

    The Church Father Ephrem the Syrian (306-378): “Abel was bright as the light, / but the murderer (Cain) was dark as the darkness".

    In an Eastern Christian (Armenian) Adam-book (5th or 6th century) it is written: “And the Lord was wroth with Cain. . . He beat Cain’s face with hail, which blackened like coal, and thus he remained with a black face".

    The Irish Saltair na Rann (The Versified Psalter, AD 988), records Gabriel announcing to Adam: "Dark rough senseless Cain is going to kill Abel".

    Adoption by Protestant groups

    The split between the Northern and Southern Baptist organizations arose over slavery and the education of slaves. At the time of the split, the Southern Baptist group used the curse of Cain as a justification for the practice. In fact, most 19th and early 20th century Southern Baptist congregations in the southern United States taught that there were two separate heavens; one for blacks, and one for whites.

    The doctrine was used to support a ban on ordaining blacks to most Protestant clergies until the 1960s in both the U.S. and Europe. The majority of Christian Churches in the world, the ancient churches, including the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox churches, Anglican churches, and Oriental Orthodox churches, did not recognize these interpretations and did not participate in the religious movement to support them. Certain Catholic Diocese in the Southern United States did adopt a policy of not ordaining blacks to oversee, administer the Sacraments to, or accept confessions from white parishioners. This policy was not based on a Curse of Cain teaching, but was justified by any possible perceptions of having slaves rule over their masters. However, this was not approved of by the Pope or any papal teaching.

    Pentecostals In the earliest years of the Pentecostal revivals, notably Azusa Street in Los Angeles, 1906-09 the mixing of the races was encouraged, and Jim Crow laws were defied. This was radical and broke new ground. It continued until 1924 when an official new Pentecostal denomination emerged, but many Pentecostal groups continued to allow mixing of the races in their services. There had been an earlier tradition of encouraging the races to mix in revival meetings going back to the Cane Ridge revival of 1801, and Methodist preachers often continued this approach.(See Robert S. Ellwood Jr. One Way: The Jesus movement and its meaning. Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: Prentice Hall, Inc.) 1973, pg. 40-42).

    Many Protestant groups in America had supported the notion that black slavery, oppression, and African colonization was the result of God's curse on people with black skin or people of African descent through Cain or through the curse of Ham, and some churches practiced racial segregation as late as the 1990s.
    (more)
  • my2cents Dave Sa... 2012/04/08 06:37:23 (edited)
    my2cents
    Awesome info! Thanks for the lesson! I'm going to copy this to a file for future reference! :D

    P.S. If you were able to write all of that just from off the top of your head, I'm your new fan!
  • Dave Sa... my2cents 2012/04/08 15:36:53
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    I said it was from Wikipedia. No applause, please.
  • Louis Contreras 2012/04/06 19:15:59
    Undecided
    Louis Contreras
    +1
    I have no idea.
  • my2cents Louis C... 2012/04/06 20:34:22
    my2cents
    It's true, Mormonism teaches the "mark" God put on Cain so "all would know him" was black skin.
  • KaylaE 2012/04/06 17:24:05
    None of the above
    KaylaE
    +1
    I have no clue I have never heard that though BUT if there is any truth to that I think it's ignorant People from all religions (that believe in the bible) read scriptures and make up whatever they THINK it means
  • my2cents KaylaE 2012/04/06 19:17:54 (edited)
    my2cents
    +1
    It's true, Mormon's believe that the "mark" Got put on Cain so all would recognize him was black skin; therefore, all people with dark skin are decendants of Cain.

    Until the mid-1970s, people of color were not allowed to hold priesthood positions in the LDS church because of their "mark", this made them inferior and ineligible to hold the highest offices in the church.

    The president of the church had a relevation from God--the Mormons believe only their president has a direct channel to God and God speaks to him through dreams--that said dark people were no longer to be discriminated against. This change of practice made converting people of color to the LDS church much easier.

    Another weird thing about the Mormon belief system that is so strange that people can't believe it: YES, Mormons believe that the truly faithful will be rewarded with their OWN PLANET after they die. Seriously.
  • Dave Sa... my2cents 2012/04/06 19:59:16
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    +1
    No your logic fails.
    Not all people descended from Cain have dark skin.
    And not all people with dark skin are descended from Cain.

    You do not understand the teachings of the Church.
    The discrimination you speak of was only in regard to holding the priesthood, not membership, or anything else, unless law required it. Blacks in Africa were converting without having any priesthood.

    Just a planet? No. We are taught that we will inherit with Christ all that the Father has.
  • my2cents Dave Sa... 2012/04/06 20:12:00 (edited)
    my2cents
    It's not MY logic, it's the LDS Church's logic. Blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood, I didn't claim they weren't allowed to join the church.

    The "mark" God put on Cain so "all would know him" was black skin. Therefore, no one with black skin was allowed to hold the priesthood because they were regarded as not fully worthy of this honor because of Cain's sin, in the same way that women are not considered worthy of this honor because of Eve's sin.

    This is what I was taught by Mormon missionaries. Do you deny it?

    This clearly made Mormonism a hard sell to people of color. They could join the church, but they knew they were doing so as second class citizens, they could never rise to a position of prominence or hold the priesthood regardless of the "content of their characters", they were forever kept from this due to their skin color.

    This changed in the mid-1970s, I was there and experienced the change first hand.

    I never said "just" a planet. Do you deny that Mormonism teaches that the truly faithful will be rewarded with their own planet in the afterlife?
  • Dave Sa... my2cents 2012/04/07 01:09:34
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Women are not inferior and they are not given the priesthood.
    You make assumptions that are inaccurate.
    Blacks were not given the priesthood because it was withheld from them by God.
    The leaders of the Church are rather the servants of all.

    I have never heard the "own planet" doctrine from anyone in the Church.
  • my2cents Dave Sa... 2012/04/07 20:19:23 (edited)
    my2cents
    Exactly. God told the Mormons to withhold the priesthood from blacks because they were regarded as not fully worthy of this honor because of Cain's sin, in the same way that women are not considered worthy of this honor because of Eve's sin.

    Parsing your words doesn't make this any less true, it just makes you look like you're attempting to hide the basic truth of your belief system. Funny, plenty of white men have sinned, I would even bet they've done the majority of it. Yet God doesn't hold this against any of you . . . . But that's another discussion.

    You need to look into the "personal planet" part of your faith. This is what I was taught by Mormon missionaries in Utah in the 1970s--there were three types of planet situations one could find oneself on after death. The most faithful get their very own planet, the semi-faithful have to share one, and the least faithful are all crammed together on one.

    Maybe it's something the Mormon church has since changed through revelation, like the blacks and priesthood thing, or the church doesn't talk about it anymore, because it always did get a lot of ridicule.

    My husband went to high school in southern California in the late 60s/early 70s, and at his high school they had a Mormon girl by the name of Janet who was always trying to conver...
    Exactly. God told the Mormons to withhold the priesthood from blacks because they were regarded as not fully worthy of this honor because of Cain's sin, in the same way that women are not considered worthy of this honor because of Eve's sin.

    Parsing your words doesn't make this any less true, it just makes you look like you're attempting to hide the basic truth of your belief system. Funny, plenty of white men have sinned, I would even bet they've done the majority of it. Yet God doesn't hold this against any of you . . . . But that's another discussion.

    You need to look into the "personal planet" part of your faith. This is what I was taught by Mormon missionaries in Utah in the 1970s--there were three types of planet situations one could find oneself on after death. The most faithful get their very own planet, the semi-faithful have to share one, and the least faithful are all crammed together on one.

    Maybe it's something the Mormon church has since changed through revelation, like the blacks and priesthood thing, or the church doesn't talk about it anymore, because it always did get a lot of ridicule.

    My husband went to high school in southern California in the late 60s/early 70s, and at his high school they had a Mormon girl by the name of Janet who was always trying to convert other students to the LDS faith. He said the other kids teasingly called her "Janet from another planet". I'm obviously not the only one who was told of the planet thing.
    (more)
  • Dave Sa... my2cents 2012/04/08 00:58:47
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    I joined the Church in Oregon in 1975 (The missionaries would all be teaching the same thing). The following statement of yours, wherever it came from, is patently false: "The most faithful get their very own planet, the semi-faithful have to share one, and the least faithful are all crammed together on one."

    The revelation on the Three Kingdoms is much different than what you say it is. It has not changed since it was given in the 1800s.

    I was called "Sewerbean" or "Soybean". There was no more truth in that name, it just sounded like Sawyer.
  • my2cents Dave Sa... 2012/04/08 06:57:05 (edited)
    my2cents
    So the three planets is a doctrine called the Three Kingdoms? That must have been what they were referring to, but that's not what I remember them calling it, even though they probably did. I specifically remember them using the words "planets" and "worlds" to describe these places. I remember this very specifically, because that's when they began to scare me.

    I also remember being told that souls could move between planets, or worlds, that once you were assigned to one didn't necessarily mean you were there for eternity, there were a couple of ways one could change their status. I remember being told that baptism by proxy could play a role here. If someone accepted baptism after death, they could move "up" in the planet hierarchy, so to speak. But that's all I remember, besides thinking at the time "these guys are crazy".

    I'm not being rude, seriously, I was a teenager at the time and that's the effect this stuff had on me. I'm going to goggle the Three Kingdoms and see what it says.
  • Dave Sa... my2cents 2012/04/08 15:52:17
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    There is mention in LDS scripture about a planet Kolob near where God resides, but other than that there is nothing promised about planets for each of us, rather we are promised that we will share in all that God has, if we are worthy, which is a whole lot more than a planet.

    There are three kingdoms, not defined as worlds, but levels of eternal existence. Only in the highest is there the potential to grow.
    The highest is the Celestial, where God the Father lives, for all those who have been valiant in following Christ.
    The next is the Terrestrial, where Jesus Christ visits and rules, for all who have been less valiant, but still led good lives.
    The lowest of God's kingdoms is the Telestial (from tele- meaning distant), Where the Holy Spirit operates but Christ does not come, nor the Father. This lowest kingdom is still so much better than what we experience today than we can imagine.
    The Lake of Fire is for those who reject God and His Christ and choose to follow Satan.

    After one dies, if one has not been baptized by the right authority, or had no opportunity to be baptized, there is the ordinance of baptism for the dead, wherein a living person is baptized in the name of a person who has died and is living in the spirit world. This spirit may choose to accept or reject the work th...

    There is mention in LDS scripture about a planet Kolob near where God resides, but other than that there is nothing promised about planets for each of us, rather we are promised that we will share in all that God has, if we are worthy, which is a whole lot more than a planet.

    There are three kingdoms, not defined as worlds, but levels of eternal existence. Only in the highest is there the potential to grow.
    The highest is the Celestial, where God the Father lives, for all those who have been valiant in following Christ.
    The next is the Terrestrial, where Jesus Christ visits and rules, for all who have been less valiant, but still led good lives.
    The lowest of God's kingdoms is the Telestial (from tele- meaning distant), Where the Holy Spirit operates but Christ does not come, nor the Father. This lowest kingdom is still so much better than what we experience today than we can imagine.
    The Lake of Fire is for those who reject God and His Christ and choose to follow Satan.

    After one dies, if one has not been baptized by the right authority, or had no opportunity to be baptized, there is the ordinance of baptism for the dead, wherein a living person is baptized in the name of a person who has died and is living in the spirit world. This spirit may choose to accept or reject the work that is done for him/her by the living person, just as we can accept or reject the gospel of Christ and His atonement which was done in our place.

    Rather than Google it, if you want to know what the Church teaches, go to lds.org or mormon.org and get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
    (more)
  • REAL TALK my2cents 2012/11/08 03:16:51
    REAL TALK
    +1
    The Mormon church was threatened with losing their tax exempt status because of discrimination, and during the last hour a decision was made to allow blacks to hold high offices. This Mormonism is a xenophobic cult.
  • big T 2012/04/06 17:24:00
    Undecided
    big T
    I am not in the position to judge him, I can justifiably judge and condemn his actions and deeds. He has been in congress for how long now? and has not ended abortion thats a crime against humanity and the womans human dignity as is those body scans and strip surches. I will hold him and every other person in congress,senate, suprem court and house, responsable for the mass murder of 64 million American babys a year.
  • Dagon 2012/04/06 17:22:19
  • Cat 1017 Dagon 2012/04/06 17:28:40
    Cat 1017
    +1
    Too lazy to travel?....Uh, uh, uh,,,Now that takes the cake......
  • Dagon Cat 1017 2012/04/06 18:41:51
  • Cat 1017 Dagon 2012/04/06 18:45:14 (edited)
    Cat 1017
    +1
    They what?...You are stating what you feel happened...Yes some did...BUT so what?....Many Europens returned to rape the land later....I didn't miss anything...I got it...and don't find it amusing....
  • Dagon Cat 1017 2012/04/06 18:48:29
  • my2cents Dagon 2012/04/06 19:20:52
    my2cents
    +1
    LOL! :D
  • my2cents Dagon 2012/04/06 19:19:28
    my2cents
    +1
    It's true, Mormon's believe that the "mark" Got put on Cain so all would recognize him was black skin; therefore, all people with dark skin are decendants of Cain.

    Until the mid-1970s, people of color were not allowed to hold priesthood positions in the LDS church because of their "mark", this made them inferior and ineligible to hold the highest offices in the church.

    The president of the church had a relevation from God--the Mormons believe only their president has a direct channel to God and God speaks to him through dreams--that said dark people were no longer to be discriminated against. This change of practice made converting people of color to the LDS church much easier.
  • Dagon my2cents 2012/04/06 19:35:36
  • my2cents Dagon 2012/04/06 19:55:58 (edited)
    my2cents
    +1
    I was at work at the University of Utah the morning the "revelation" was announced from the Church president. Most of the employees there were Mormon, they all congregated together at the end of the hall and were talking about it in hushed tones.

    When I was in Utah, the LDS church was doing a lot of missionary work in South American countries. Their belief that the Mark of Cain extended to all people of color--hispanics, AAs, eastern Indians, anyone with black skin regardless of ethnicity--made Mormonism a tough sell in South America, to say the least.

    They still believe that black skin is the Mark of Cain, their church just no longer discriminates against their members based on this. Blacks can now hold the priesthood, black MEN, that is.
  • Dagon my2cents 2012/04/06 21:01:08
  • my2cents Dagon 2012/04/06 21:37:02 (edited)
    my2cents
    +1
    That's one of the reasons I could never convert to the LDS faith. I like the Mormon people, there is a lot to like about them. Their focus on the importance of the family unit, how they put the well being of their children first, their interest in and embracing of other cultures is a lot of fun. They are more accepting of cultural differences than many other religions, in fact, they celebrate diversity within their membership. As a people, I think they're great. It's their theology I have a problem with.
  • Dagon my2cents 2012/04/06 21:43:51

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