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Does religious freedom mean you can violate the rights of individuals in the name of your religion?

☠ Live Free Or Die ☠ 2012/06/29 03:18:17
Yes; if your religion tells you to do something, you should be allowed to do it, even if it hurts people.
No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't be allowed to do it.
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Short answer, no. Your right to swing your fists ends at my face.
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  • Starman 2012/06/29 04:34:57
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    Starman
    +7
    You can choose to believe any idiotic thing you want, but you cannot impose those beliefs on others!

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  • Seiryuu MarinerFH 2012/07/01 21:45:34
    Seiryuu
    +1
    Kill the infidels!!!!11!111oneoneoneel...

    D:< D:< D:< D:<
  • MarinerFH Seiryuu 2012/07/01 22:05:23
    MarinerFH
    That's hardly peaceable.
  • Seiryuu MarinerFH 2012/07/01 22:10:29
    Seiryuu
    +1
    Now imagine if that were passed as a law.
  • MarinerFH Seiryuu 2012/07/01 22:13:43
    MarinerFH
    I have seen comments on SH by liberal women in favor of Sharia Law. Can you believe it?
    Sharia Law  women
  • Seiryuu MarinerFH 2012/07/02 01:54:59
    Seiryuu
    Wait, I'm confused. Are you arguing for religious freedom to an extent?
  • MarinerFH Seiryuu 2012/07/02 02:01:01
    MarinerFH
    I am arguing for what is guaranteed in the 1st Amendment, no more, no less.

    The 1st amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.
  • Seiryuu MarinerFH 2012/07/02 02:14:40
    Seiryuu
    Therein lies the problem:

    impeding the free exercise of religion

    I'm pretty sure there's a right for individuals to be safe that supersedes that line. What if killing someone is part of one's religion? Is that allowed?
  • MarinerFH Seiryuu 2012/07/02 02:16:48
    MarinerFH
    I think you can answer your own question. How do you do it in Canada.

    The problem today in the USA has been the wholesale impeding of the free exercise of religion.
  • Seiryuu MarinerFH 2012/07/02 03:01:50
    Seiryuu
    +1
    Provided it does no harm/suppresses any other rights, there shouldn't be a problem.
  • MarinerFH Seiryuu 2012/07/02 03:03:32
    MarinerFH
    Good to know. Tks.
  • elijahin24 2012/06/29 23:32:34
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    elijahin24
    +1
    My freedom to swing my fist, stops at the end of your nose.
  • retiredingeorgia 2012/06/29 23:31:55
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    retiredingeorgia
    +1
    I believe that everyone has the right to believe, or not, what they choose.
    How they act, is another matter. In my Bible, it says to "obey the laws of the land".
    So far, in the Good Old U.S.A., it is against the law to murder or maim people regardless of your religious beliefs.
  • Night 2012/06/29 23:21:07
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    Night
  • 4dc 2012/06/29 23:13:08
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    4dc
    obviously not...something too many zealots need to realize.
  • ♒ßεllεchεvεllε®♒ 2012/06/29 22:52:15
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    ♒ßεllεchεvεllε®♒
    In a perfect world, there would be a definitive separation of church and state.
  • Death Faerie 2012/06/29 22:52:00
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    Death Faerie
    Amen to that one!! No one should have the right to impose their beliefs on others. I generally keep my religious beliefs to myself.
  • Junior-BN-0 2012/06/29 22:48:07 (edited)
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    Junior-BN-0
    I usually don't like answering religious questions as religion itself I believe came from man, so it's destined to fail, but I took an interest in this one. It's never right to violate rights, no matter the excuse.
  • Raphy 2012/06/29 19:51:00
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    Raphy
    I'm a religist individual. But I don't force my views on anybody. I think if they are, they are going by it the wrong way.
  • Mechelle 2012/06/29 19:04:03
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    Mechelle
    No,,,,,, loving the Lord means loving as HE did. If a religion says to cause harm or pain to others, then its on the wrong path as far as I'm concerned.
  • KrSpo 2012/06/29 18:36:04
    No, it doens't matter why you do something, if it harms people, you shouldn't...
    KrSpo
    +1
    No, religious freedom allows you to worship as long as you do not infringe on the rights of others.
  • JJ 2012/06/29 18:10:46
    Yes; if your religion tells you to do something, you should be allowed to do ...
    JJ
    I really had to bounce back and forth in my mind on which answer to hit, because we should be able to obey our religious rights, but not hurt or push it on to someone. I've noticed that many people look at religion as a word meaning...a belief. Religion is not a word or a belief, but...an example of actions. Jesus Christ is our example and God the father is our strength. Christ taught us this. We are to be examples of Christ and his teachings. We are to obey God and His 10 commandments and love him, which will give us strength and wisdom.
  • elijahin24 JJ 2012/06/29 23:34:18
    elijahin24
    So if your religion said you had to do human sacrifice; should you have the right to do that? What if it said you had to stone homosexuals to death?
  • JJ elijahin24 2012/06/30 01:28:36
    JJ
    God does nothing without a very good reason. When he had Abraham take Isaac his only son [ Genesis 22 ] into the land of Moriah and offer him [ Isaac ] as a sacrifice, Abraham did as God ask. God stopped Abraham before he killed Isaac. In our minds, it sounds terrible, but God doesn't think like we do [ Isaiah 55: 8 ]. He told Abraham that He now knew that he [ Abraham ] fearest God, as he didn't withold his only son from him. Now, the fear God he was talking about was not a fear as most would take it, but a respect for God.
    The thing that happened between Abraham and God was a test for Abraham. Abraham was a true servent to God. God does not tell people to go around sacrificing people unless he had a real good reason to back it up.
    Pagans did sacrifice children to pagan Gods [ things that didn't, nor couldn't even speak to them. Now, that is evil.] God had a reason for what He did and much good came from it.

    There isn't any where in the bible that I can find that God said to stone homosexuals to death, but there were stonings at that time.
    When you go by the bible, you go by what Gods says and you learn that he always has a reason for what he does. If he ask christians to do something in relation to a correction of some kind, He would let us know how and why. He doesn't just do things for no reason.
  • elijahin24 JJ 2012/06/30 03:28:11
    elijahin24
    But we're talking about the rule of law here. Are you suggesting that all of the murderers in prison, who swear that God told them to do the awful things that they did; should be set free? How can we know if they're telling the truth? And where do you draw the line?

    By the way:
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

    and it isn't just gays. If you'd like to see the list, I'm happy to share. It's quite extensive and surprising.
  • JJ elijahin24 2012/06/30 05:48:22
    JJ
    If Man were to go by the rules of Gods instead of their own laws, the answers for all of this could be found in the bible.
    No, they should not be set free, that's why we have laws, judges and lawyers. They are the ones that are suppose to get to the truth. But, the things about men is that many don't try hard enough to get to the truth, many are more interested in the money or the reputation they'll gain, rather than the truth. Now, I'm not saying all of them are that way, but there are those that are.
    Yes, they were to be put to death, and it wasn't always just stoning. if God wanted to, he could open a hole in the earth and it would have swollowed them. He has done that before. I realize others have died and have read it many times...the whole list.
  • elijahin24 JJ 2012/06/30 16:12:31
    elijahin24
    But this is the point, the laws of the Bible don't apply to our national laws. Your right to practice your faith is protected, right up until it causes tangible harm to someone else.
  • JJ elijahin24 2012/06/30 16:53:29
    JJ
    elijahin, Gods laws were always set up for man, but man wanted a king [ president, etc ] and no longer wanted God to rule [ I Samuel 8: 5-7 ]. This was the begining of many ends for us, as sin [ in many ways ] became rampet. If you read a little further down on this scripture, you will see that God had even told Samuel to tell the people what kind of king would reign over them...he warned them, but they still wanted a king. So, here we are and now we have a president that wants to rule over us, in otherwords, have the government control the lives of us all, right on down to what we eat. God had warned us a long time ago these things would take place. The laws ofGod were not harsh and we were free, but history [ bible ] shows all of us [ the world ] what can happen with kings ruling...they can become greedy, selfish, controling, etc, etc. But this is what man wanted...a king to rule over them and that's what man has had for a very long time. Has it helped? If it weren't for God making a promise to Abrham, we wouldn't even be in this country called Ameica. Also, if it hadn't been for our forefathers learning the lessons they had learned and putting them down in the Constitution, we again wouldn't have been free for over 200 years. We were blessed beyond words, because we did obe...
    elijahin, Gods laws were always set up for man, but man wanted a king [ president, etc ] and no longer wanted God to rule [ I Samuel 8: 5-7 ]. This was the begining of many ends for us, as sin [ in many ways ] became rampet. If you read a little further down on this scripture, you will see that God had even told Samuel to tell the people what kind of king would reign over them...he warned them, but they still wanted a king. So, here we are and now we have a president that wants to rule over us, in otherwords, have the government control the lives of us all, right on down to what we eat. God had warned us a long time ago these things would take place. The laws ofGod were not harsh and we were free, but history [ bible ] shows all of us [ the world ] what can happen with kings ruling...they can become greedy, selfish, controling, etc, etc. But this is what man wanted...a king to rule over them and that's what man has had for a very long time. Has it helped? If it weren't for God making a promise to Abrham, we wouldn't even be in this country called Ameica. Also, if it hadn't been for our forefathers learning the lessons they had learned and putting them down in the Constitution, we again wouldn't have been free for over 200 years. We were blessed beyond words, because we did obey God and loved him...but then we strayed and forgot him and not only us, but many other free countries did the same and now, here we are struggling to get our country back...but God is the only one that can help us.
    (more)
  • elijahin24 JJ 2012/06/30 17:59:44
    elijahin24
    The laws of God were not harsh? Gods laws ordered the death of homosexuals, nonbelievers, worshipers of other gods, disobedient children, people who wore clothing made from two different threads, people who touched the arc of the covenant (even to prevent it from falling), people who planted different crops side by side, people who worked on the sabbath, and rape VICTIMS. None of those seem a bit excessive to you?
    Furthermore, Gods laws only apply to people who believe in God. If he doesn't prove he exists, that will NEVER be everyone. We are a nation of religious freedom. Nobody can prove that their faith is right. As long as that is the case, the only way to make laws which are fair to EVERY religion, is to keep religion out of them all together. You are free to practice your religion, as long as it doesn't cause tangible harm to another human being.
  • JJ elijahin24 2012/06/30 21:24:41
    JJ
    Everything you have said had a reason and you will find that reason in the bible. In order to understand Gods reasoning, you have to know God...not just say you believe in God, but know him. He said he does not think like we do, that's another reason you have to get to know who God is...and that takes a lot of study and research.
    Your mind set is right along with others I have talked to, which shows me, they have not really done any real studying, nor research. Most of them come up with so much pagan stuff and idol worshipping, etc.which only proves out that God said don't do as the pagans.
    When I study and do research on the bible, I always pray about it first, asking God to help me find the truth, and He does. I've been doing this for many, many years now and continue to keep learning more and more.
  • elijahin24 JJ 2012/06/30 23:08:56
    elijahin24
    JJ, I have studied the Bible as thoroughly as the average pastor. I prayed and BEGGED God to give me the wisdom to understand what I needed to understand, in order to believe. Apparently, that was way too much to ask. So, all I have to go on, are the words in the Bible, the education of the Biblical scholars I've studied with, and my own intellect.
    Ultimately, it always comes back to "Gods ways are beyond our ways". Which is a poetic way of saying "because god said so". I'm sorry, that's not good enough.
  • JJ elijahin24 2012/07/01 00:59:18
    JJ
    elijahin, the very first thing I had to learn, was, is there a God, then I had to believe his word [ the bible ].To prove there is a God, I did extensive studying on my own. I knew the bible said, ' the Lord our God is one God,' [ Deuteronomy 6: 4 and Mark 12: 29 ] and also knew that the earth and universe, trees, water, etc had to be done by a creator that was bigger than me. I knew you couldn't take something from nothing and create such balance within a universe or even a tree. The more I studied [ 42 years ], the more I knew there was a God, and a God that loved me. There is so much more to this I could tell you that even goes deeper, but it would take a lot of writting. But, if you are interested I will explain.
    The next thing I figured out was if there was a God, than the bible had to have a lot of truth in it. But, to get to the truth, I did a lot of research with other books that were connected to the bible in some way. There were things in the bible that seemed to contradict each other and I wondered why...so I set out to find out and low and behold, they didn't really, there was a connection.
    From all the years of study, I knew there was a God and the bible held the truth. A lot of people just read the bible and don't go any further with it, but with the bible you ...



    elijahin, the very first thing I had to learn, was, is there a God, then I had to believe his word [ the bible ].To prove there is a God, I did extensive studying on my own. I knew the bible said, ' the Lord our God is one God,' [ Deuteronomy 6: 4 and Mark 12: 29 ] and also knew that the earth and universe, trees, water, etc had to be done by a creator that was bigger than me. I knew you couldn't take something from nothing and create such balance within a universe or even a tree. The more I studied [ 42 years ], the more I knew there was a God, and a God that loved me. There is so much more to this I could tell you that even goes deeper, but it would take a lot of writting. But, if you are interested I will explain.
    The next thing I figured out was if there was a God, than the bible had to have a lot of truth in it. But, to get to the truth, I did a lot of research with other books that were connected to the bible in some way. There were things in the bible that seemed to contradict each other and I wondered why...so I set out to find out and low and behold, they didn't really, there was a connection.
    From all the years of study, I knew there was a God and the bible held the truth. A lot of people just read the bible and don't go any further with it, but with the bible you have to connect the dots and that takes research.
    elijahin, you already believe or you wouldn't have asked God to give you wisdom. Wisdom comes from knowledge.
    God said, ' you don't think like I think,' but He wants us to think as he does. All of Gods thoughts and plan is connected to love and family. We are his family and because of that, we're going to become more than what man has ever seen. When people read things in the bible that sounds terrible to them and it angers them, they really need to find out why God allowed those things to come about. Everything, and I mean everything that has happened from the time of Adam and Eve on up to our time has been to fulfil the coming plan of God...for all of us. But, we have many lessons to learn that will stregthen us spiritually along the way, make us better people and better children of God.
    Gods ways are beyond our ways? Gods ways are the very ways He wants within us.
    The one thing I have learned through all of my studies is that [ even though I am still very human in many ways ] the closer you get to God, the closer He gets to you. I have had some very interesting happenings because of this. Happenings that many have never had...wonderful things. If you want to talk more or have questions, I will be glad to talk to you. I am not going to try and persuade you to join anything, etc...just talk.
    (more)
  • elijahin24 JJ 2012/07/02 15:55:13
    elijahin24
    OK, first, the Bible proves nothing. It's just a book. I could tell you that I own a unicorn ranch, and you could believe me; but unless I can provide some evidence beyond my word, you'd be a fool if you did. The Bible cannot be it's own proof.
    If you accept the premise of God, without proof; of course the rest falls into place. But why would you accept the premise without any proof? I don't.
    2. "Something from nothing", Where did God come from? Didn't he come from nothing? Who created him? And even if God is real, and if he created the universe, from what did he create it?
    3.Yes, I DID believe in God. The more I studied, the less I believed; until ultimately I had to accept that it was a fantasy.
    4. I've read the Bible (twice), and many other related books. I see the god of the Bible to be cruel, and selfish. The traits I see in him, mirror those we see in war-criminals.
    5. If this divine plan is real, why do we bother to pray? Isn't that kind of telling God that we don't like his divine plan?

    The fact is that there is NO proof of God. The complexity of the universe proves nothing. The Bible proves nothing. It seems to me that the primary function of God, as he pertains to the universe; is to fill in the gaps of human knowledge. But if there is a god, and he really is GOD; he certainly knows what to show me to persuade me.
  • JJ elijahin24 2012/07/02 18:20:53
    JJ
    Okay, I'm going to try and answer you one by one...
    Where did God come from? Revelation 16: 5, And I heard the the angel of the waters say, thou art righteous, o Lord, which art, and wast, and shall be, because thou hast judged thus. [ God was, is and alwys will be]. God has always been...always. When I was a kid, this was a question I use to have and it use to drive me nuts...until I found this in scripture. One could ask, where does infinity stop, it doesn't...it just goes on and on and always
    has. In Genesis 1: 1 God created the heaven and earth with a word. He created it by speaking it. This is power beyond anything we have every seen and believe it or not, someday you will have that kind of power.

    Well, you may have given up, but God has his hand on your shoulder because in your own mind you question things...and that's good...it means more than you'll ever know. If you did not question, then I'd be worried for you, even if its negative questions...its still spiritual thought. I know you don't know what I'm saying right now, but you will.

    As I said above, when you come across things that seem terrible to you that God has allowed or God himself has done...there is a very good reason for it. We may think its horrible, but when you search out why God did what He did, i...







    Okay, I'm going to try and answer you one by one...
    Where did God come from? Revelation 16: 5, And I heard the the angel of the waters say, thou art righteous, o Lord, which art, and wast, and shall be, because thou hast judged thus. [ God was, is and alwys will be]. God has always been...always. When I was a kid, this was a question I use to have and it use to drive me nuts...until I found this in scripture. One could ask, where does infinity stop, it doesn't...it just goes on and on and always
    has. In Genesis 1: 1 God created the heaven and earth with a word. He created it by speaking it. This is power beyond anything we have every seen and believe it or not, someday you will have that kind of power.

    Well, you may have given up, but God has his hand on your shoulder because in your own mind you question things...and that's good...it means more than you'll ever know. If you did not question, then I'd be worried for you, even if its negative questions...its still spiritual thought. I know you don't know what I'm saying right now, but you will.

    As I said above, when you come across things that seem terrible to you that God has allowed or God himself has done...there is a very good reason for it. We may think its horrible, but when you search out why God did what He did, it begins to make sense. Remember, God said [ Isaiah 55: 8 ] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. Right now we are very human, think very human...God is spiritual and thinks that way. He wants us to get to know him, so we understand the whys He does what he does. A lot of people will take a sentence and read just what that sentence says and that's it...but some sentences in the bible you have to research out and get a clearier meaning to them, it may just have one word in that sentence that will make the whole difference in the meaning of the whole sentence. I use a book that has the english meanings of Hebrew and Greek that helps a lot with certain meanings in the bible, and sentences, all from one word.

    Prayer is what puts us in spiritual contact with God. I have found that if you want a prayer answered quickly, fast and pray together...fasting for one day and praying. If you don't get an answer, sometimes your answer is no. When you pray, you just talk to him as you would a good friend. There has been times I have talked and prayed to God while I was driving some where or walking down my trail or in my bathroom. He really does listen.

    Prayer is very important and very much in sink with Gods plan. When you pray your asking God to help you be strong in all things so that you will become more like his son and will be a light to the world and by your example be able to let others see God through you.

    Believe me when I say, it is hard sometimes because there are those that you'd rather hit in the face than try to be kind to them. But, you do not have to like their attitude and you can always walk away. Gods plan for us right now is to learn to love him, obey him, love our neighbors as ourselves, as his kingdom cannot have any kind of evil in it as it will be nothing, but pure love surrounding us. Love that's so extreme you can't even explain it...very powerful.

    Like I said, if you get close to God, He will get close to you. If you shut him out, how can He help you see him?
    (more)
  • elijahin24 JJ 2012/07/02 19:03:24
    elijahin24
    If God has always been, why is it so impossible that the universe has always been, in one form or another? Why is it not possible, that the gases, minerals and elements which make up the universe were not always in existence, even before the Big Bang?
    And if it IS impossible that they existed forever, how is it that saying a word, suddenly made them materialize from nothing? why is it that something can come from nothing, if a deity utters a word?

    I agree that questioning is good (though it's odd to hear a believer saying that) but that's just a matter of keeping an open mind. And my mind IS open. But that is not to say that I'm looking to change my mind. My mind is open to new evidence. I'll change my mind, if evidence is presented, but it has to be real evidence, not just circumstantial.

    The horrors of the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament; are not excusable under any reasonable standard. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to dash the heads of toddlers against the rocks, as in Isaiah 13:15-18. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to kill non-believers and homosexuals, as in Romans 1:24-32. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to execute the VICTIM of rape, as is prescribed in Deuteronomy 22:23-24. There is never a circumstance in which sex s...

    If God has always been, why is it so impossible that the universe has always been, in one form or another? Why is it not possible, that the gases, minerals and elements which make up the universe were not always in existence, even before the Big Bang?
    And if it IS impossible that they existed forever, how is it that saying a word, suddenly made them materialize from nothing? why is it that something can come from nothing, if a deity utters a word?

    I agree that questioning is good (though it's odd to hear a believer saying that) but that's just a matter of keeping an open mind. And my mind IS open. But that is not to say that I'm looking to change my mind. My mind is open to new evidence. I'll change my mind, if evidence is presented, but it has to be real evidence, not just circumstantial.

    The horrors of the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament; are not excusable under any reasonable standard. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to dash the heads of toddlers against the rocks, as in Isaiah 13:15-18. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to kill non-believers and homosexuals, as in Romans 1:24-32. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to execute the VICTIM of rape, as is prescribed in Deuteronomy 22:23-24. There is never a circumstance in which sex slavery should be allowed, let alone be seen as the spoils of war, as in Deuteronomy 21:10-14, Judges 5:30, and Exodus 21:7-11. If this is Gods plan, God is a despot, a genocidal, cruel, perverse, dictator. And even if he IS real, he is unworthy of worship or even respect.

    I don't know how God can prove himself. Maybe he could come down and show himself. That would be a start. But if he knows all, he surely knows what I need to hear or see, in order to be persuaded.
    (more)
  • JJ elijahin24 2012/07/02 22:47:23
    JJ
    In Genesis 1: 3- 18 you can see that God spoke and it was so. In Psalms 33: 6- 9 also tells you that by the word of the Lord were the heaven [s] made, stars, moon , etc. And all the host of them In by the breath of his mouth. Energes is a Greek word in english meaning, energy.Hebrews 4: 12 says the word of God is quick and powerful [ meaning: energy ].God has powerful energy. In psalm 29: 4, a Hebrew word, koach, is a translated word for power and used in english in Psalm 29...the voice of the Lord is powerful, the voice of the lord is full of majesty. There is more to look into about this. The point is, that God is the one who energized the entire universe and created time, mass and space, and light-energy, and all He had to do was speak it. That is power, tremendous power. The reason these things came about is because there is a creator, a loving God that was, is and always will be.
    Right now, elijahin, you, nor I could even look upon God and live. His power is so beyond powerful and we humans are filled with sin...we would die on the spot.
    Your looking for evidence, as many others are, when you really need to just accept and know there is something greater than yourself. Once you do that, I really believe your mind will be open to what will be shown you.

    Remember when I...

    In Genesis 1: 3- 18 you can see that God spoke and it was so. In Psalms 33: 6- 9 also tells you that by the word of the Lord were the heaven [s] made, stars, moon , etc. And all the host of them In by the breath of his mouth. Energes is a Greek word in english meaning, energy.Hebrews 4: 12 says the word of God is quick and powerful [ meaning: energy ].God has powerful energy. In psalm 29: 4, a Hebrew word, koach, is a translated word for power and used in english in Psalm 29...the voice of the Lord is powerful, the voice of the lord is full of majesty. There is more to look into about this. The point is, that God is the one who energized the entire universe and created time, mass and space, and light-energy, and all He had to do was speak it. That is power, tremendous power. The reason these things came about is because there is a creator, a loving God that was, is and always will be.
    Right now, elijahin, you, nor I could even look upon God and live. His power is so beyond powerful and we humans are filled with sin...we would die on the spot.
    Your looking for evidence, as many others are, when you really need to just accept and know there is something greater than yourself. Once you do that, I really believe your mind will be open to what will be shown you.

    Remember when I said you have to look for key words or sentences sometimes to get to the meanig of some scripture? Isaiah 13:1- 22 God uses the words...In that day. That day is called, the great day of the lord. This is future coming. That day will be the great and terrible day of the Lord. You can find much about this in Joel 1-3 chapters. The reason for this is sin and disobedience. Things have gotten so far out of hand and God knows it and much will happen because of it. But, this too is called to repentance and then Isaiah 2: 2-4 comes into play.
    This is not because of God wanting to be cruel or non-caring, but because good cannot prevail if there is evil. And no one would make it into his kingdom unless things are turned around.
    We're having a spark of what's coming right now...man has become corrupt and evil and it can spread to such a point, no one would make it. We are right now fighting a spirtual war between good and evil and man needs to pray, repent and get close[ put on his armour ] to God. Man has thrown him out and by doing that, we have opened a door for evil to enter.
    (more)
  • elijahin24 JJ 2012/07/03 00:27:54
    elijahin24
    Once again, you're using the Bible as it's own credibility witness. This doesn't work. "Because the Bible says so" is not an answer.
    I think if god has absolute power, he has the power to make it possible for us to see him, or at least see proof of him.
  • JJ elijahin24 2012/07/03 01:13:21
    JJ
    Like I said, if God showed himself to us, we'd be dead. But, He shows himself all the time through his work,healings, mracles, providing us with things to wear, to eat, etc. No, there are those that don't have some things, but I bet there are many other things they do have...family, love, etc. He is there for us if we are there for him.
    elijahin, you are going to see things that are coming...you will see angels, you may well see Jesus Christ when he comes. Either here or in the kingdom, you're going o see much. Right now, just accept that He is with you, holding you up, providing for you. Then when the time is right, you will see...like the boy in the old testament that wanted to see Gods angels and his eyes were opened and he looked up toward the mountains and saw thousands of them...you will see.
  • elijahin24 JJ 2012/07/03 05:08:37
    elijahin24
    I can't do that, JJ. I can't simply accept. I'm a skeptic. I believe what I see. I believe evidence. I believe science. Belief without evidence, from me, would be intellectually dishonest. It would be an attempt to convince myself, of something that simply isn't true. I've done that before. I won't do it again. Sorry, but I just won't. If I'm to believe, I need evidence. And no, the world around me is not evidence of God. In fact, I've found the world around me quite persuasive that there is NOT a god.
  • JJ elijahin24 2012/07/03 15:12:57 (edited)
    JJ
    elijahin, As you look at the world right now, you have to see that something is bad wrong going on...right? What you are seeing are the beginings of more coming down the road. In the meantime, there are some things that have not happened yet, but soon coming. This nation is on a bad path right now because they lost God along the way and God is going to wake us up. elijahin, you will most likely walk this path and you will see what you have been seeking, but before you do, I'm afraid you will see stuff that will anger you, upset you and you will cry over, but there is a reason for all of it...then is when you will see the wonders of another world, you will understand and be happier than you ever have in your life. elijahin, you're a good person and I know God does have his hand on your shoulder and when you go down that path...remember that. I truly enjoyed talking to you and someday, I will meet you in Gods kingdom. Take it easy my friend.

  • elijahin24 JJ 2012/07/03 15:37:01
    elijahin24
    When I stopped believing in God, I DID become happier than I I had ever been. As a believer, I was miserable. I was miserable with the pain I saw in the world, while trying to reconcile the world I saw, with the loving god I tried to serve. I was miserable with the judgment of the GOOD people I saw, who were supposedly evil, because of who they loved. I was miserable as a Christian. as an atheist, I was able to stop trying to make sense of what I had been told, and was simply able to accept the world as it is, along with my responsibility to try to make it better. There is still lots of suffering in the world, and there always will be; but by giving up on God, I was able to begin seeing my place in the world. I began to see that there were things I could do to make it better. If there is another side, and if your God is good, then yes, I will see you there, and that will be nice. In the mean time, if God wants me back, he'll have to prove himself. Think of me as Thomas.

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