Does religious freedom mean you can violate the rights of individuals in the name of your religion?
☠ Live Free Or Die ☠
2012/06/29 03:18:17
Short answer, no. Your right to swing your fists ends at my face.




















D:< D:< D:< D:<
The 1st amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.
I'm pretty sure there's a right for individuals to be safe that supersedes that line. What if killing someone is part of one's religion? Is that allowed?
The problem today in the USA has been the wholesale impeding of the free exercise of religion.
How they act, is another matter. In my Bible, it says to "obey the laws of the land".
So far, in the Good Old U.S.A., it is against the law to murder or maim people regardless of your religious beliefs.
The thing that happened between Abraham and God was a test for Abraham. Abraham was a true servent to God. God does not tell people to go around sacrificing people unless he had a real good reason to back it up.
Pagans did sacrifice children to pagan Gods [ things that didn't, nor couldn't even speak to them. Now, that is evil.] God had a reason for what He did and much good came from it.
There isn't any where in the bible that I can find that God said to stone homosexuals to death, but there were stonings at that time.
When you go by the bible, you go by what Gods says and you learn that he always has a reason for what he does. If he ask christians to do something in relation to a correction of some kind, He would let us know how and why. He doesn't just do things for no reason.
By the way:
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
and it isn't just gays. If you'd like to see the list, I'm happy to share. It's quite extensive and surprising.
No, they should not be set free, that's why we have laws, judges and lawyers. They are the ones that are suppose to get to the truth. But, the things about men is that many don't try hard enough to get to the truth, many are more interested in the money or the reputation they'll gain, rather than the truth. Now, I'm not saying all of them are that way, but there are those that are.
Yes, they were to be put to death, and it wasn't always just stoning. if God wanted to, he could open a hole in the earth and it would have swollowed them. He has done that before. I realize others have died and have read it many times...the whole list.
Furthermore, Gods laws only apply to people who believe in God. If he doesn't prove he exists, that will NEVER be everyone. We are a nation of religious freedom. Nobody can prove that their faith is right. As long as that is the case, the only way to make laws which are fair to EVERY religion, is to keep religion out of them all together. You are free to practice your religion, as long as it doesn't cause tangible harm to another human being.
Your mind set is right along with others I have talked to, which shows me, they have not really done any real studying, nor research. Most of them come up with so much pagan stuff and idol worshipping, etc.which only proves out that God said don't do as the pagans.
When I study and do research on the bible, I always pray about it first, asking God to help me find the truth, and He does. I've been doing this for many, many years now and continue to keep learning more and more.
Ultimately, it always comes back to "Gods ways are beyond our ways". Which is a poetic way of saying "because god said so". I'm sorry, that's not good enough.
The next thing I figured out was if there was a God, than the bible had to have a lot of truth in it. But, to get to the truth, I did a lot of research with other books that were connected to the bible in some way. There were things in the bible that seemed to contradict each other and I wondered why...so I set out to find out and low and behold, they didn't really, there was a connection.
From all the years of study, I knew there was a God and the bible held the truth. A lot of people just read the bible and don't go any further with it, but with the bible you ...
The next thing I figured out was if there was a God, than the bible had to have a lot of truth in it. But, to get to the truth, I did a lot of research with other books that were connected to the bible in some way. There were things in the bible that seemed to contradict each other and I wondered why...so I set out to find out and low and behold, they didn't really, there was a connection.
From all the years of study, I knew there was a God and the bible held the truth. A lot of people just read the bible and don't go any further with it, but with the bible you have to connect the dots and that takes research.
elijahin, you already believe or you wouldn't have asked God to give you wisdom. Wisdom comes from knowledge.
God said, ' you don't think like I think,' but He wants us to think as he does. All of Gods thoughts and plan is connected to love and family. We are his family and because of that, we're going to become more than what man has ever seen. When people read things in the bible that sounds terrible to them and it angers them, they really need to find out why God allowed those things to come about. Everything, and I mean everything that has happened from the time of Adam and Eve on up to our time has been to fulfil the coming plan of God...for all of us. But, we have many lessons to learn that will stregthen us spiritually along the way, make us better people and better children of God.
Gods ways are beyond our ways? Gods ways are the very ways He wants within us.
The one thing I have learned through all of my studies is that [ even though I am still very human in many ways ] the closer you get to God, the closer He gets to you. I have had some very interesting happenings because of this. Happenings that many have never had...wonderful things. If you want to talk more or have questions, I will be glad to talk to you. I am not going to try and persuade you to join anything, etc...just talk.
If you accept the premise of God, without proof; of course the rest falls into place. But why would you accept the premise without any proof? I don't.
2. "Something from nothing", Where did God come from? Didn't he come from nothing? Who created him? And even if God is real, and if he created the universe, from what did he create it?
3.Yes, I DID believe in God. The more I studied, the less I believed; until ultimately I had to accept that it was a fantasy.
4. I've read the Bible (twice), and many other related books. I see the god of the Bible to be cruel, and selfish. The traits I see in him, mirror those we see in war-criminals.
5. If this divine plan is real, why do we bother to pray? Isn't that kind of telling God that we don't like his divine plan?
The fact is that there is NO proof of God. The complexity of the universe proves nothing. The Bible proves nothing. It seems to me that the primary function of God, as he pertains to the universe; is to fill in the gaps of human knowledge. But if there is a god, and he really is GOD; he certainly knows what to show me to persuade me.
Where did God come from? Revelation 16: 5, And I heard the the angel of the waters say, thou art righteous, o Lord, which art, and wast, and shall be, because thou hast judged thus. [ God was, is and alwys will be]. God has always been...always. When I was a kid, this was a question I use to have and it use to drive me nuts...until I found this in scripture. One could ask, where does infinity stop, it doesn't...it just goes on and on and always
has. In Genesis 1: 1 God created the heaven and earth with a word. He created it by speaking it. This is power beyond anything we have every seen and believe it or not, someday you will have that kind of power.
Well, you may have given up, but God has his hand on your shoulder because in your own mind you question things...and that's good...it means more than you'll ever know. If you did not question, then I'd be worried for you, even if its negative questions...its still spiritual thought. I know you don't know what I'm saying right now, but you will.
As I said above, when you come across things that seem terrible to you that God has allowed or God himself has done...there is a very good reason for it. We may think its horrible, but when you search out why God did what He did, i...
Where did God come from? Revelation 16: 5, And I heard the the angel of the waters say, thou art righteous, o Lord, which art, and wast, and shall be, because thou hast judged thus. [ God was, is and alwys will be]. God has always been...always. When I was a kid, this was a question I use to have and it use to drive me nuts...until I found this in scripture. One could ask, where does infinity stop, it doesn't...it just goes on and on and always
has. In Genesis 1: 1 God created the heaven and earth with a word. He created it by speaking it. This is power beyond anything we have every seen and believe it or not, someday you will have that kind of power.
Well, you may have given up, but God has his hand on your shoulder because in your own mind you question things...and that's good...it means more than you'll ever know. If you did not question, then I'd be worried for you, even if its negative questions...its still spiritual thought. I know you don't know what I'm saying right now, but you will.
As I said above, when you come across things that seem terrible to you that God has allowed or God himself has done...there is a very good reason for it. We may think its horrible, but when you search out why God did what He did, it begins to make sense. Remember, God said [ Isaiah 55: 8 ] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. Right now we are very human, think very human...God is spiritual and thinks that way. He wants us to get to know him, so we understand the whys He does what he does. A lot of people will take a sentence and read just what that sentence says and that's it...but some sentences in the bible you have to research out and get a clearier meaning to them, it may just have one word in that sentence that will make the whole difference in the meaning of the whole sentence. I use a book that has the english meanings of Hebrew and Greek that helps a lot with certain meanings in the bible, and sentences, all from one word.
Prayer is what puts us in spiritual contact with God. I have found that if you want a prayer answered quickly, fast and pray together...fasting for one day and praying. If you don't get an answer, sometimes your answer is no. When you pray, you just talk to him as you would a good friend. There has been times I have talked and prayed to God while I was driving some where or walking down my trail or in my bathroom. He really does listen.
Prayer is very important and very much in sink with Gods plan. When you pray your asking God to help you be strong in all things so that you will become more like his son and will be a light to the world and by your example be able to let others see God through you.
Believe me when I say, it is hard sometimes because there are those that you'd rather hit in the face than try to be kind to them. But, you do not have to like their attitude and you can always walk away. Gods plan for us right now is to learn to love him, obey him, love our neighbors as ourselves, as his kingdom cannot have any kind of evil in it as it will be nothing, but pure love surrounding us. Love that's so extreme you can't even explain it...very powerful.
Like I said, if you get close to God, He will get close to you. If you shut him out, how can He help you see him?
And if it IS impossible that they existed forever, how is it that saying a word, suddenly made them materialize from nothing? why is it that something can come from nothing, if a deity utters a word?
I agree that questioning is good (though it's odd to hear a believer saying that) but that's just a matter of keeping an open mind. And my mind IS open. But that is not to say that I'm looking to change my mind. My mind is open to new evidence. I'll change my mind, if evidence is presented, but it has to be real evidence, not just circumstantial.
The horrors of the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament; are not excusable under any reasonable standard. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to dash the heads of toddlers against the rocks, as in Isaiah 13:15-18. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to kill non-believers and homosexuals, as in Romans 1:24-32. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to execute the VICTIM of rape, as is prescribed in Deuteronomy 22:23-24. There is never a circumstance in which sex s...
And if it IS impossible that they existed forever, how is it that saying a word, suddenly made them materialize from nothing? why is it that something can come from nothing, if a deity utters a word?
I agree that questioning is good (though it's odd to hear a believer saying that) but that's just a matter of keeping an open mind. And my mind IS open. But that is not to say that I'm looking to change my mind. My mind is open to new evidence. I'll change my mind, if evidence is presented, but it has to be real evidence, not just circumstantial.
The horrors of the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament; are not excusable under any reasonable standard. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to dash the heads of toddlers against the rocks, as in Isaiah 13:15-18. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to kill non-believers and homosexuals, as in Romans 1:24-32. There is no circumstance under which it is ok to execute the VICTIM of rape, as is prescribed in Deuteronomy 22:23-24. There is never a circumstance in which sex slavery should be allowed, let alone be seen as the spoils of war, as in Deuteronomy 21:10-14, Judges 5:30, and Exodus 21:7-11. If this is Gods plan, God is a despot, a genocidal, cruel, perverse, dictator. And even if he IS real, he is unworthy of worship or even respect.
I don't know how God can prove himself. Maybe he could come down and show himself. That would be a start. But if he knows all, he surely knows what I need to hear or see, in order to be persuaded.
Right now, elijahin, you, nor I could even look upon God and live. His power is so beyond powerful and we humans are filled with sin...we would die on the spot.
Your looking for evidence, as many others are, when you really need to just accept and know there is something greater than yourself. Once you do that, I really believe your mind will be open to what will be shown you.
Remember when I...
Right now, elijahin, you, nor I could even look upon God and live. His power is so beyond powerful and we humans are filled with sin...we would die on the spot.
Your looking for evidence, as many others are, when you really need to just accept and know there is something greater than yourself. Once you do that, I really believe your mind will be open to what will be shown you.
Remember when I said you have to look for key words or sentences sometimes to get to the meanig of some scripture? Isaiah 13:1- 22 God uses the words...In that day. That day is called, the great day of the lord. This is future coming. That day will be the great and terrible day of the Lord. You can find much about this in Joel 1-3 chapters. The reason for this is sin and disobedience. Things have gotten so far out of hand and God knows it and much will happen because of it. But, this too is called to repentance and then Isaiah 2: 2-4 comes into play.
This is not because of God wanting to be cruel or non-caring, but because good cannot prevail if there is evil. And no one would make it into his kingdom unless things are turned around.
We're having a spark of what's coming right now...man has become corrupt and evil and it can spread to such a point, no one would make it. We are right now fighting a spirtual war between good and evil and man needs to pray, repent and get close[ put on his armour ] to God. Man has thrown him out and by doing that, we have opened a door for evil to enter.
I think if god has absolute power, he has the power to make it possible for us to see him, or at least see proof of him.
elijahin, you are going to see things that are coming...you will see angels, you may well see Jesus Christ when he comes. Either here or in the kingdom, you're going o see much. Right now, just accept that He is with you, holding you up, providing for you. Then when the time is right, you will see...like the boy in the old testament that wanted to see Gods angels and his eyes were opened and he looked up toward the mountains and saw thousands of them...you will see.