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Does a COMMA make Barack Obama eligible, as a citizen, to run for President?

Rogue_Loner 2012/04/13 11:56:47
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Article II Section I clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States of America:



No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United
States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be
eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be
eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty
five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United
States.


a natural born citizen, ...OR...a citizen of the United States (COMMA) at the time of the adoption of this Constitution...

A comma is a punctuation mark used to separate clauses.


Does the indicated comma mean that only non natural born citizens in 1787 are eligible, or does it separate individual clauses "or a citizen" separated from "at the time"?

For Obama to be ineligible, would not the comma have to be omitted to read:
"or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution..."?
To ME, it sounds as if either a natural born citizen OR a citizen is eligible. Far be it from me to correct James Madison...lol.
Either way, who says punctuation is not important?
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Top Opinion

  • Red Branch 2012/04/13 16:18:31
    It doesn't matter. Obama is a "blah, blah, blah"...
    Red Branch
    +23
    Punctuation was not standardized at the time the Constitution was written.
    Spelling was not standardized at this time either, not that it has been called into question at this time, it will probably be next in an effort to legitimize* the bamaster.

    If people are grasping at commas in an effort to legitimize Obama, his support fgr his case must be disappearing. A comma being smaller than a piece of straw, so this indicates some real weakness.

    * The term legitimize refers only to his citizenship status because there is NFW he can change the fact that his parents were not married.

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Opinions

  • Rogue_L... Bronar 2012/04/13 13:24:59
  • MsTlynne Bronar 2012/04/13 15:17:48
    MsTlynne
    +1
    We were coming out anyway. Nothing you can do to stop us. Romney's going to lose, fair and square.
  • The Lib... MsTlynne 2012/04/14 00:45:45 (edited)
    The Lib Hater
    +1
    He is, is he? Yep, 0bama has destroyed your party, 2010 proved it. 2012, will rid him, and the rest of, WHAT LIBERALS ARE LEFT. You will be stopped, reason being, we are not about to let the recipient be the new hero in America.
    http://www.canadafreepress.co...
  • MsTlynne The Lib... 2012/04/14 02:13:24
    MsTlynne
    +1
    We shall see....
  • Mopvyzo 2012/04/13 13:15:42
    Obama is eligible, as a citizen, according to the Constitution.
    Mopvyzo
    +5


    President Barack Hussein Obama discusses the release of his long form birth certificate, having long ago released his standard birth certificate, and says that "We've got big problems to solve. And I'm confident we can solve them, but we're going to have to focus on them -- not on this."

    President Barack Hussein Obama s Birth Certificate

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blo...
  • Rogue_L... Mopvyzo 2012/04/13 13:23:13
  • Flash,aka,Mr.Lightning 2012/04/13 13:02:52
    Obama is ineligible because he wasn't a citizen in 1787.
    Flash,aka,Mr.Lightning
    +1
    Any dope that can read knows by the context that they were talking about 1787 citizens,- and thereafter as natural born on American soil.
  • Rogue_L... Flash,a... 2012/04/13 13:05:27
  • Flash,a... Rogue_L... 2012/04/13 13:34:54
    Flash,aka,Mr.Lightning
    +2
    'Spell Check' sees no error with the comma. You have to put yourself in the mindset of the framer,the time and concerns of a enemy of the new nation taking control (maybe a British 'plant'). 14 years prior to 1787 would be 1773 as the beginning of the qualification year of any 'citizen' being eligible to run for president. The comma seperates the future time from the THEN time.
  • Rogue_L... Flash,a... 2012/04/13 13:38:15
  • AM 2012/04/13 13:02:29 (edited)
  • Flash,a... AM 2012/04/13 13:04:46
    Flash,aka,Mr.Lightning
    +3
    But he has experiance in laddling soup into bowls!
  • Rogue_L... AM 2012/04/13 13:06:50
  • AM Rogue_L... 2012/04/13 13:10:32
  • Rogue_L... AM 2012/04/13 13:12:41
  • AM Rogue_L... 2012/04/13 13:30:24 (edited)
  • Rogue_L... AM 2012/04/13 13:31:46
  • AM AM 2012/04/13 13:32:38
  • Rogue_L... AM 2012/04/13 13:33:50
  • FAWKES' NOOSE ~ ΔTX 2012/04/13 12:49:11
    Undecided. Let's think about this...
    FAWKES' NOOSE ~ ΔTX
  • Rogue_L... FAWKES'... 2012/04/13 12:56:58
  • keymanjim Rogue_L... 2012/04/13 13:10:09
    keymanjim
    +4
    It's knee jerk reaction by the mindless obamabots.
    Any criticismof their messiah is verboten. I'm surprised that no one has called you a racist yet.
  • Rogue_L... keymanjim 2012/04/13 13:13:09
  • Sport_Geoff 2012/04/13 12:48:55
    Undecided. Let's think about this...
    Sport_Geoff
    +4
    If you will research you will find that the clause "at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution" is referencing foreign born citizens that migrated to the U.S. and became a citizen prior to the adoption of the Constitution. This had to be done because the country was still relatively young and many people had come here from other countries.

    This is not an unusual term in resolutions or laws and is best described as "the grandfather clause". Ex: The requirements for several state license change over the years (i.e. such as requiring a college degree) and when these changes are made they have to grandfather existing license holders in that were licensed before the changes and those people are not required to obtain a college degree to renew or keep their license..

    This is exactly why the clause was written into the constitution.....It deals strictly with someone in 1787 that had been naturalized as a citizen prior to the adoption of the Constitution so that they would be eligible to run for POTUS

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Grandfather clause is a legal term used to describe a situation in which an old rule continues to apply to some existing situations, while a new rule will apply to all future situations. It is often used as a verb: to grandfather means to gran...
    If you will research you will find that the clause "at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution" is referencing foreign born citizens that migrated to the U.S. and became a citizen prior to the adoption of the Constitution. This had to be done because the country was still relatively young and many people had come here from other countries.

    This is not an unusual term in resolutions or laws and is best described as "the grandfather clause". Ex: The requirements for several state license change over the years (i.e. such as requiring a college degree) and when these changes are made they have to grandfather existing license holders in that were licensed before the changes and those people are not required to obtain a college degree to renew or keep their license..

    This is exactly why the clause was written into the constitution.....It deals strictly with someone in 1787 that had been naturalized as a citizen prior to the adoption of the Constitution so that they would be eligible to run for POTUS

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Grandfather clause is a legal term used to describe a situation in which an old rule continues to apply to some existing situations, while a new rule will apply to all future situations. It is often used as a verb: to grandfather means to grant such an exemption. Frequently, the exemption is limited; it may extend for a set period of time, or it may be lost under certain circumstances. For example, a "grandfathered power plant" might be exempt from new, more restrictive pollution laws, but those rules would apply if the plant were expanded. Often, such a provision is used as a compromise, to effect new rules without upsetting a well-established logistical or political situation. This extends the idea of a rule not being retroactively applied.
    (more)
  • Rogue_L... Sport_G... 2012/04/13 12:55:19
  • Sport_G... Rogue_L... 2012/04/13 12:57:57 (edited)
    Sport_Geoff
    +2
    Do you think a child born here to an illegal immigrant would be eligible? They would be a citizen but not a natural born citizen.
    I'm sure you did research the punctuation but research on these type matters has to be done using the common terms, meanings, and writing styles of the time written.

    Minor v. Happersett:

    Under the common law, according to the court, "it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."[12]

    I believe this is as close as the courts got to actually addressing "natural born citizen"

    Later there was a ruling that effectively overturned the previous ruling but the SCOTUS at the time failed to follow one particular rule (if you will) of law which is once the SCOTUS rules on an issue it becomes precedent. We see this everyday when the SCOTUS refuses to hear a case based upon a previous ruling by the SCOTUS in which the case is deemed to lack merit since there has already been a ruling.
  • Rogue_L... Sport_G... 2012/04/13 13:02:46
  • Sport_G... Rogue_L... 2012/04/13 13:38:19
    Sport_Geoff
    +1
    He ./ she wouldn't in my opinion. He / she would be elligible for Governor, Senate Seats, and other elected positions but not POTUS or VPOTUS.
    Arnold S. is a naturalized citizen and has lived here for well over the 14 years and was elligible to be governor of Cal. but he would not / is not elligible to run for POTUS or VPOTUS.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can...

    NO. Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 of the US Constitution clearly states:

    "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."

    Since Schwarzenegger was born in Austria, and wasn't around when the Constitution was adopted (to be grandfathered in), he isn't eligible to run for President.

    If you Google would Schwarzenegger be eligible to be president(not that he could win) you will find that even Arnold said "yes, I'd like to be president but I am not eligible" and several articles that say the same.

    (I fully acknowledge these are articles that don't actually get into law so there worth the paper their written on in legal circles)

    This is...
    He ./ she wouldn't in my opinion. He / she would be elligible for Governor, Senate Seats, and other elected positions but not POTUS or VPOTUS.
    Arnold S. is a naturalized citizen and has lived here for well over the 14 years and was elligible to be governor of Cal. but he would not / is not elligible to run for POTUS or VPOTUS.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can...

    NO. Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 of the US Constitution clearly states:

    "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."

    Since Schwarzenegger was born in Austria, and wasn't around when the Constitution was adopted (to be grandfathered in), he isn't eligible to run for President.

    If you Google would Schwarzenegger be eligible to be president(not that he could win) you will find that even Arnold said "yes, I'd like to be president but I am not eligible" and several articles that say the same.

    (I fully acknowledge these are articles that don't actually get into law so there worth the paper their written on in legal circles)

    This is a debate topic that actually can never be settled because we don't have anyone now that was alive then to put the language in context and anything that is written on the subject of language of the times would only be educated guesses.
    (more)
  • Rogue_L... Sport_G... 2012/04/13 14:37:42
  • Sport_G... Rogue_L... 2012/04/13 14:47:36
    Sport_Geoff
    +1
    As you said ...it's vague.......
  • keymanjim 2012/04/13 12:45:36
    Undecided. Let's think about this...
    keymanjim
    +4
    It doesn't matter. Obama, by his own admission, was born a citizen of England.
    How anybody can say someone was a natural born US citizen when born with citizenship in another country goes beyond the level of common sense.
  • Assassi... keymanjim 2012/04/13 13:15:31
    Assassin~ Badass Buzz Guru
    +2
    People can hold dual citizenships with Englland and the U.S. Don't be silly
  • bozo 2012/04/13 12:30:03
    It doesn't matter. Obama is a "blah, blah, blah"...
    bozo
    +2
    he may be eligible to run but he is NOT QUALIFIED to hold the job.
    bet the good people of chicago have a job for him in democrat heaven.
    he and michelle could teach black gang members how to read.................
  • Obama is eligible, as a citizen, according to the Constitution.
    Jersey Roze ♥Jwon's Cyar'ika ♥
    +4
    Because he was born in Hawaii...
  • Rogue_L... Jersey ... 2012/04/13 12:25:10
  • Jersey ... Rogue_L... 2012/04/13 12:36:23
    Jersey Roze ♥Jwon's Cyar'ika ♥
    +2
    True...
  • Flash,a... Rogue_L... 2012/04/13 13:17:27
    Flash,aka,Mr.Lightning
    +1
    No person born in another country can come here and after becoming a citizen through INS (HLS) regardless of how many years of permanet residency status be qualified to run for president. Ask Arnold Swarchenegger.
  • Rogue_L... Flash,a... 2012/04/13 13:48:20
  • keymanjim Jersey ... 2012/04/13 12:41:16
    keymanjim
    Proof?
  • Rogue_L... keymanjim 2012/04/13 12:43:30

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