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Do You Think President Obama Will Win the 2012 Election?

Politics 2012/05/09 03:52:22
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We know you want to make your opinion count -- especially during the time of a serious election. So, every week, SodaHead will host a handful of up-to-date polls having to do with the upcoming 2012 election.

Vote on this week's election questions below and make sure to come back every Tuesday to see how everyone voted -- and to receive a new batch of questions worth pondering. It's a great time to have an opinion. So, dive right in to our 2012 Election poll.


Read More: http://www.sodahead.com/survey/featured/2012-elect...

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  • William Zimmerman 2012/05/09 17:05:02
    Yes
    William Zimmerman
    +3
    I believe once the campaign begins in earnest, the Obama Campaign will zero in on Romney's inconsistancies like a cruise missle. Romney has been on every side of the issues to win the Republican Nomination. The people will begin to see Romney as dishonest and his support will begin to slip. Unfortunately, many people will suffer during the campaign as the Republicans use what power they have to disrupt the economic recovery in an attempt to win the election. It really is sad that they are so power hungry that they would deliberately harm the country in an attempt to win the election. However, these are the same people who would discontinue the School Lunch program in order to avoid raising Taxes on the very Wealthy. I believe that the voters will be smart enough to see through it.
  • davyd g... William... 2012/05/09 17:43:57
    davyd god loving patriot
    +1
    too late nobama bin laden already screwed up this country
  • Uranos7 William... 2012/05/09 21:04:32
    Uranos7
    +1
    Obama has more inconsistencies than Romney he campaigned against health care for the nomination in debates against Hillary who was for it. Obama flipped on just about every issue he started out with. That will make it very difficult to attack Romney on that front so he will likely avoid it.
    Like the democrats sabotaged it in the last election you mean.
    Your propaganda machine mustbe running low because they have onlly proposed taking off the ones that Obama added whithout having a plan to pay for them.
  • Grandbr... Uranos7 2012/05/09 21:17:31
    Grandbrother
    No, he campaigned largely ON healthcare reform. Where he disagreed with Hillary was only on the issue of mandates - which are originally a conservative concept. She supported them and he did not. On that, yes, he did change his tune. Aside from that, could you provide actual examples of him "flipping" on issues with anything near the frequency you claim?
  • Uranos7 Grandbr... 2012/05/10 03:20:22
    Uranos7
    +1
    Top Obama Flip-Flops


    1. Special interests In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions to the campaigns of Clinton and John Edwards as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements. He now refers respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and says he is "thrilled" by their support.

    2. Public financing Obama replied "yes" in September 2007 when asked if he would agree to public financing of the presidential election if his GOP opponent did the same. Obama has now attached several conditions to such an agreement, including regulating spending by outside groups.

    3. The Cuba embargo In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed in the effort to overthrow Castro." Speaking to a Cuban American audience in Miami in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change."

    4. Illegal immigration In a March 2004 questionnaire, Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose." In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that "we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation....

    Top Obama Flip-Flops


    1. Special interests In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions to the campaigns of Clinton and John Edwards as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements. He now refers respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and says he is "thrilled" by their support.

    2. Public financing Obama replied "yes" in September 2007 when asked if he would agree to public financing of the presidential election if his GOP opponent did the same. Obama has now attached several conditions to such an agreement, including regulating spending by outside groups.

    3. The Cuba embargo In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed in the effort to overthrow Castro." Speaking to a Cuban American audience in Miami in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change."

    4. Illegal immigration In a March 2004 questionnaire, Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose." In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that "we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation." Recently he flipped on this one again choosing to show amnesty to Illegals and thier employers.

    5. Decriminalization of marijuana While running for the U.S. Senate in January 2004, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the Oct. 30, 2007, presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana.
    (more)
  • Grandbr... Uranos7 2012/05/10 18:23:42
    Grandbrother
    That's it? You claimed that "Obama has more inconsistencies than Romney", and you only bring five examples? Romney flip flops five times in his sleep.

    Romney on Roe v. Wade:
    "Roe v. Wade has gone too far."
    http://www.nationalreview.com...
    "I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it."
    http://www.politifact.com/tru...

    Romney on health care mandates:
    "No, no, I like mandates. The mandates work."
    http://blog.hcfama.org/2008/0...
    "I think it's unconstitutional on the 10th Amendment front."
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-5...

    Romney on stem cell research:
    "I will work and fight for stem cell research."
    http://www.mult-sclerosis.org...
    "In the end, I became persuaded that the stem-cell debate was grounded in a false premise."
    http://www.aboutmittromney.co...

    On Reagan:
    "I'm not trying to return to Reagan-Bush"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?...
    "Ronald Reagan is...my hero"
    http://www.nationalreview.com...

    On the Vietnam War:
    "“I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country"
    http://www.nationalreview.com...
    "I was not planning on signing up for the military. It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam.”
    http://www.nationalreview.com...

    On abortion:
    "I believe that abortion is the wrong choice except in cases of incest,...




























    That's it? You claimed that "Obama has more inconsistencies than Romney", and you only bring five examples? Romney flip flops five times in his sleep.

    Romney on Roe v. Wade:
    "Roe v. Wade has gone too far."
    http://www.nationalreview.com...
    "I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it."
    http://www.politifact.com/tru...

    Romney on health care mandates:
    "No, no, I like mandates. The mandates work."
    http://blog.hcfama.org/2008/0...
    "I think it's unconstitutional on the 10th Amendment front."
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-5...

    Romney on stem cell research:
    "I will work and fight for stem cell research."
    http://www.mult-sclerosis.org...
    "In the end, I became persuaded that the stem-cell debate was grounded in a false premise."
    http://www.aboutmittromney.co...

    On Reagan:
    "I'm not trying to return to Reagan-Bush"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?...
    "Ronald Reagan is...my hero"
    http://www.nationalreview.com...

    On the Vietnam War:
    "“I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country"
    http://www.nationalreview.com...
    "I was not planning on signing up for the military. It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam.”
    http://www.nationalreview.com...

    On abortion:
    "I believe that abortion is the wrong choice except in cases of incest, rape, and to save the life of the mother"
    http://www.nationalreview.com...
    "Let me make this very clear. I will preserve and protect a woman’s right to choose"
    http://www.nationalreview.com...

    On global warming:
    "My view is that we don’t know what’s causing climate change on this planet. And the idea of spending trillions and trillions of dollars to try to reduce CO2 emissions is not the right course for us.”
    http://www.boston.com/Boston/...
    “I believe the world is getting warmer, and I believe that humans have contributed to that. I think it’s important for us to reduce our emissions of pollutants, of greenhouse gases, that may well be significant contributors to the climate change and global warming that you’re seeing.”
    http://www.nationalreview.com...

    On same sex marriage:
    Upon being asked "constitutional amendment or state decision [to ban gay marriage]?", Romney answered "Constitutional"
    http://www.nationalreview.com...
    "The authorization of marriage on a same-sex basis falls under state jurisdiction."
    http://www.nationalreview.com...

    On guns:
    "I support the Second Amendment. I purchased a gun when I was a young man. I've been a hunter pretty much all my life"
    http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5592...
    "I don’t line up with the NRA"
    http://www.nationalreview.com...

    On the minimum wage:
    "I think the minimum wage ought to keep pace with inflation."
    http://www.washingtonpost.com...
    "There's no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs"
    http://www.ourfuture.org/blog...

    I mean geez - I could go on and on and on. It might be easier if you were to just suggest some political issues and I'll track down his flip-flops on them for you.
    (more)
  • Uranos7 Grandbr... 2012/05/10 20:57:01
    Uranos7
    I only gave you the top 5.

    Abortion: I realize to a liberal abortion is an all or nothing concept but to others it is more complicated Romney is against abortion personaly but does not want to overturn roe vs wade making abortions illegal. He also does not want the government to make them free or force religious healthcare organiztions to cover or perform them. If you had read the article you would have seen that he was talking about people using roe vs wade as a precedent to legalize cloning. Which is a whoe new can of worms.
    Vietnam war: He did not sign up because 1st he belived his obligation to God and his church came first. Then he had a family to support but did register for the draft. Unlike other like Clinton who 'pretended' to join ROTC.
    Healthcare: Yes he supports universal healthcare but believes it should be up to the individual states because no plan implemented by the federal government would be a perfect match for all 50 states. They have different priorities and needs.
    Stem cell: pretty simple he stated in the argument you presented that once he learned more about it he changed his mind. A very logical approach to learn, grow, and change with increased knowledge on the subject.
    global warming : ditto
    Reagan: first your quotes are 18 years apart LOL, Second even...




    I only gave you the top 5.

    Abortion: I realize to a liberal abortion is an all or nothing concept but to others it is more complicated Romney is against abortion personaly but does not want to overturn roe vs wade making abortions illegal. He also does not want the government to make them free or force religious healthcare organiztions to cover or perform them. If you had read the article you would have seen that he was talking about people using roe vs wade as a precedent to legalize cloning. Which is a whoe new can of worms.
    Vietnam war: He did not sign up because 1st he belived his obligation to God and his church came first. Then he had a family to support but did register for the draft. Unlike other like Clinton who 'pretended' to join ROTC.
    Healthcare: Yes he supports universal healthcare but believes it should be up to the individual states because no plan implemented by the federal government would be a perfect match for all 50 states. They have different priorities and needs.
    Stem cell: pretty simple he stated in the argument you presented that once he learned more about it he changed his mind. A very logical approach to learn, grow, and change with increased knowledge on the subject.
    global warming : ditto
    Reagan: first your quotes are 18 years apart LOL, Second even Obama is trying to quote Reagan these days. ROFL
    NRA : He belives in the second amendment but thinks that assault weopons which can be made automatic with a few simple tools are too dangerous for public use.
    Minimum wage: He wants to raise it but it is a matter of timing.
    [ i don't buy that one either so you win on that one]

    This is why moderates always get labeled flip floppers because they realize that there is a time and place for everything and doing the same thing all the time leads to failure most of the time.
    (more)
  • Grandbr... Uranos7 2012/05/10 22:17:54
    Grandbrother
    Ah, trying to excuse the flip flops, eh? Get used to it, because these and many, MANY more will be raised over and over and over and over and over again as Romney tries to settle into some kind of firm stance on issues throughout his campaign. Pretty laughable that you think you can casually dismiss his well known and documented history of being someone who'll say whatever's necessary to please the crowd he's addressing at the moment. You'll surely even be hearing recordings of his Republican primary competitors played ad nauseum saying the same. Pretending it doesn't exist won't make it go away.
  • Uranos7 Grandbr... 2012/05/11 00:01:20
    Uranos7
    +1
    First a person who is able to change with the times is not a bad thing to me. Much better than someone who refuses to change thier opinions in the face of new information.
    Second his views on a lot of those things are unchanged but because they do not fit either extreme they are called flip flops.
    Personally I hate both extremes as do over 60 % of Americans who are moderates. Only 23% of Americans are liberals and 36% conservatives that leaves 44% as moderates the extremes just yell louder.
  • TheThinker Grandbr... 2012/05/17 09:22:41
    TheThinker
    The accumulated weight of Obama’s deceit is overwhelming:

    * During his campaign for the presidency and since, Obama repeatedly assured us that he would protect Medicare against cuts; but he now presses for passage of bills that include savage cuts in Medicare.

    * To obtain passage of his first stimulus bill, Obama assured us that 90% of the jobs created would be in the private sector; but as he well knew, most of them were to be in the public sector.

    * Early in the health care debate, Obama assured us that he had not said that he favored a single payer system; but he was on record as having said exactly that.

    * Obama gave primary voters a firm assurance that if he became the nominee of the Democratic party he would (unlike Hillary Clinton) abide by the campaign finance limits of public funding; but as soon as he became the party’s nominee, he reneged on that pledge.

    * During the presidential campaign Obama criticized the presence of former lobbyists in the Bush administration and solemnly assured us that he would appoint no lobbyists to his administration; but once elected he proceeded to appoint even more lobbyists than his predecessors.

    * Obama criticized the size of George Bush’s deficit and promised to stop deficit spending if elected; but he has already quadrupled the size of th...

















































    The accumulated weight of Obama’s deceit is overwhelming:

    * During his campaign for the presidency and since, Obama repeatedly assured us that he would protect Medicare against cuts; but he now presses for passage of bills that include savage cuts in Medicare.

    * To obtain passage of his first stimulus bill, Obama assured us that 90% of the jobs created would be in the private sector; but as he well knew, most of them were to be in the public sector.

    * Early in the health care debate, Obama assured us that he had not said that he favored a single payer system; but he was on record as having said exactly that.

    * Obama gave primary voters a firm assurance that if he became the nominee of the Democratic party he would (unlike Hillary Clinton) abide by the campaign finance limits of public funding; but as soon as he became the party’s nominee, he reneged on that pledge.

    * During the presidential campaign Obama criticized the presence of former lobbyists in the Bush administration and solemnly assured us that he would appoint no lobbyists to his administration; but once elected he proceeded to appoint even more lobbyists than his predecessors.

    * Obama criticized the size of George Bush’s deficit and promised to stop deficit spending if elected; but he has already quadrupled the size of the deficit he objected to and recklessly continues new federal spending in the trillions.

    * When campaigning Obama criticized bills before the congress that were too long for anyone to be able to read and promised to stop that; but the bills he has been backing throughout his first year are infinitely longer (2000+ pages) than the ones he criticized.

    * Candidate Obama promised an end to the corruption of earmarks and pork, but in the bills he has supported this year there have been more and bigger earmarks than ever before.

    * Candidate Obama promised us that CIA personnel involved in the interrogation of terrorists would not be prosecuted; but his administration is now doing exactly that.

    * Obama assured a joint session of Congress that the health bill he supported (pre-Stupak) would not provide public funding for abortions; but bitter resistance on the part of House Democrats to inclusion of language to that effect soon proved that it did.

    * Candidate Obama promised that he would make sure that there was always enough time for the public to read legislation before it was enacted; but he has done exactly the opposite, repeatedly pressing for even faster passage of even longer bills.

    * Candidate Obama met fears that he would be a tax and spend liberal by promising, emphatically and repeatedly, that those earning under $200,000 would see no increase in their taxes of any kind; but he now urges passage of a healthcare bill that breaks that pledge in many different ways, and his unrestrained increase in federal spending makes more tax increases inevitable.

    * Candidate Obama promised bipartisanship and an end to partisan bickering; but in a display of especially ruthless partisanship his allies have shut Republicans out of all key meetings on his health care initiative, with the unprecedented result that domestic legislation of historic importance garnered not a single Republican vote in the Senate.

    * Candidate Obama criticized his opponent’s plan to tax employer paid healthcare benefits, and promised he would not tax them; but the bill he now backs will do just that.

    * Obama had promised that he would not sign a healthcare bill that would add one dime to the federal deficit; but the bill he now backs adds trillions in new federal spending, offset only by new sources of revenue that are both uncertain and more properly seen as offsetting the already existing deficit.

    * Obama coerced congress into passing his stimulus bill by promising that if it were passed unemployment could go no higher then 8%; but unemployment is now at 10%, and he could not possibly have had good reason to exclude that possibility.

    * Obama promised that his cap and trade legislation will create jobs; but its massive tax increases will certainly hobble the economy and destroy jobs, while green jobs in significant numbers can at best be hoped for, but never promised.

    * Obama has repeatedly assured the American people that if they like their current health plan they can keep it; but the House bill which he supported created huge incentives for employers to drop their coverage and shift their members to a public option.

    * Obama has just as often assured the public that under his health plan everyone will be able to keep their current doctor; but many are certain to lose their doctors when ObamaCare’s large cuts in Medicare funding induce more doctors to withdraw from Medicare coverage, as they also would were employers to transfer patients to a public option to save money.

    * Obama assured a joint session of Congress that his health plan would not fund illegal aliens; but his allies had been busy voting down amendments to that effect. (This was the point of Joe Wilson’s outburst.)

    * Obama claimed that Caterpillar’s CEO had told him that Caterpillar would begin hiring again as a result of the stimulus bill; but that individual immediately announced that he had said no such thing, and that Caterpillar would in fact be laying off more workers.

    * Candidate Obama promised that Guantanamo would be closed by January 1, 2010; but it is still open.

    * Candidate Obama promised that his administration (unlike his predecessor’s) would be so transparent that TV cameras (C-Span) would be there for key deliberations; but an unprecedented level of secrecy prevails as the final stages of Obamacare are negotiated behind closed doors and kept so secret that even the Senate majority whip admitted that he had no idea what was going on. Requests for Obama to honor the promise of C-Span cameras are being ignored.

    * To gain traction for his attempt to return a would-be socialist dictator in Honduras to power, Obama claimed that he had been overthrown in an illegal coup; but the congressional research service pointed out correctly that ex-President Zelaya had been removed for constitutionally sufficient cause by legal and constitutional means.

    * Obama claims that he wants a public option only to increase choice and competition; but the House bill would clearly reduce choice both by squeezing unsubsidized private health plans out of the market, and by setting rigid conditions on acceptable plans that would narrow available options.

    * Candidate Obama claimed that violent radical Bill Ayers was just another guy in his neighborhood; but the record shows that the two had worked closely together.

    * Obama assured us that his stimulus bill would create or save a million jobs; but he was claiming as fact what could never have been more than a wild (and highly improbable) guess, and his more recent attempts to justify that guess have been fraudulent.

    * Obama assured us that his health plan would never ration care, or “pull the plug” on grandma; but the legislation he backs sets up panels to make crucial decisions on when to withhold care, and it makes such deep cuts in Medicare that rationing is inevitable.

    * Obama now assures us that health insurance premiums will not go up if ObamaCare becomes law, insisting indignantly that people who say this have not read the bill; but the legislation forces insurers to cover preexisting conditions, which will compel them to raise premiums substantially.

    This is an extraordinary record of serial mendacity. One or two instances might charitably be regarded as rash promises later regretted, or as the wishful thinking of someone who had not thought through the implications of what he was saying. But when it happens again and again—and my 30 instances are by no means exhaustive—only one judgment seems possible: this is the record of a habitual, shameless liar, a man who will say anything to get what he wants. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, goes the old saying. But scores of times? How shameful is that for our society when this disgraceful record is never the subject of a reproachful editorial in the New York Times, the Washington Post, or CBS news? Richard Nixon was removed from office, and Bill Clinton impeached for a single lie. Who could look at Obama’s record without concluding that his lying is in a completely different league to theirs?

    President Obama evidently believes that he can solve any problem with a speech. But he really does not care whether what he says is true or not, nor does he feel any responsibility to honor the assurances and promises he makes. As a result, this nation is now in a position where it cannot believe a word that he says, and that amounts to an unprecedented crisis of confidence in the Presidency. Democratic government will atrophy if we allow lying on this scale to count as the business as usual of politics. When will the press and the Congress hold him accountable?
    (more)
  • Grandbr... TheThinker 2012/06/12 06:33:55
    Grandbrother
    Like I'm really gonna read this whole, pre-drafted cut n' paste.
  • Ole SGT Joe 2012/05/09 16:21:04
    No
    Ole SGT Joe
    +3
    He has promoted two things. First, to bankrupt the Country and second, to initiate a Socialist State - bottom line................
  • Grandbr... Ole SGT... 2012/05/10 18:27:39
    Grandbrother
    Is this like a game where we're supposed to finish your sentence for you? Okay, I'll play:

    "He has promoted two things. First, to bankrupt the Country and second, to initiate a Socialist State - bottom line................I don't know a damn thing about economics or what socialism even is."
  • Leantom... Grandbr... 2012/05/12 04:26:40
    Leantom, the Economic Rationalist
    lol.

    Yes, let's continue spending 1.2 trillion more than we collect through revenue every year. That's a great way to improve the economy.
  • Grandbr... Leantom... 2012/06/01 22:43:52
    Grandbrother
    And I said this where exactly?
  • Leantom... Grandbr... 2012/06/05 04:16:38
    Leantom, the Economic Rationalist
    A person who supports president Obama and assumes to know anything about economics is quite a funny fellow.
  • Grandbr... Leantom... 2012/06/05 14:36:30 (edited)
    Grandbrother
    Can't provide an example of me saying the words you tried to put in my mouth, so you change the subject. Pitiful.
  • Leantom... Grandbr... 2012/06/05 18:51:52
    Leantom, the Economic Rationalist
    ok - so you don't support Obama spending 1.2 trillion (1.8 for this fiscal year, though) dollars over collected revenue.

    I stand corrected.
  • Grandbr... Leantom... 2012/06/05 19:11:27
    Grandbrother
    Specifically, I don't support "spending 1.2 trillion more than we collect through revenue every year".
  • Leantom... Grandbr... 2012/06/05 23:21:18
    Leantom, the Economic Rationalist
    Yes, but that is the consequence of supporting Obama's economic policies.

    And anyone supporting Obama's economic policies and claiming to know anything about economics is quite a funny fellow.
  • Grandbr... Leantom... 2012/06/06 14:16:05
    Grandbrother
    No, that's the consequence of a number of factors. First and foremost, it's the consequence of the biggest recession since the great depression. Next, it's the consequence of congressional intransigence. To think that we can draw any definitive conclusions about "Obama's policies" when every single one has been rebuffed or severely undercut by GOP obstructionism is foolish.
  • Leantom... Grandbr... 2012/06/07 16:41:24
    Leantom, the Economic Rationalist
    So, we find ourselves in the biggest recession since the great depression, and obama decides to spend nearly one-trillion dollars on a failed stimulus bill, close to 400 billion per year on 100 new federal agencies, and one-trillion dollars on a laughably stupid health care act. Yet, he's not to blame for the increase in spending; no, the Republican Congress that's trying to halt spending is to blame.

    Now I understand it all.
  • Grandbr... Leantom... 2012/06/07 18:07:03 (edited)
    Grandbrother
    You said: "...obama decides to spend nearly one-trillion dollars on a failed stimulus bill..."

    Ah, the rhetorical "failed" stimulus. Well, we certainly can't look into a crystal ball and see what the country would look like had there been no stimulus, but the CBO and other independent analysts have concluded that it was helpful in many ways:

    "The nonpartisan CBO figures offer a more nuanced picture of how government spending impacted an economy still coping with unemployment above 9 percent. It provides an alternative glimpse of an economy with even higher unemployment and drastically lower growth.

    The CBO figures released Tuesday estimate that the stimulus package raised the gross domestic product this past quarter by 0.3 percent-1.9 percent.

    The CBO report provided a broad range of the estimated number of full-time jobs created because of the stimulus — from a low of 500,000 to a high of 3.3 million jobs."
    http://www.politico.com/news/...

    You said: "...close to 400 billion per year on 100 new federal agencies..."

    Hmmm - "Obama asked Congress to give him a kind of reorganization power no president has had since Ronald Reagan. It would guarantee Obama a vote, within 90 days, on any idea he offers to consolidate agencies, provided it saves money and cuts the government.

    His first ta...













    You said: "...obama decides to spend nearly one-trillion dollars on a failed stimulus bill..."

    Ah, the rhetorical "failed" stimulus. Well, we certainly can't look into a crystal ball and see what the country would look like had there been no stimulus, but the CBO and other independent analysts have concluded that it was helpful in many ways:

    "The nonpartisan CBO figures offer a more nuanced picture of how government spending impacted an economy still coping with unemployment above 9 percent. It provides an alternative glimpse of an economy with even higher unemployment and drastically lower growth.

    The CBO figures released Tuesday estimate that the stimulus package raised the gross domestic product this past quarter by 0.3 percent-1.9 percent.

    The CBO report provided a broad range of the estimated number of full-time jobs created because of the stimulus — from a low of 500,000 to a high of 3.3 million jobs."
    http://www.politico.com/news/...

    You said: "...close to 400 billion per year on 100 new federal agencies..."

    Hmmm - "Obama asked Congress to give him a kind of reorganization power no president has had since Ronald Reagan. It would guarantee Obama a vote, within 90 days, on any idea he offers to consolidate agencies, provided it saves money and cuts the government.

    His first target: Merging six major trade and commerce agencies into a one-stop-shopping department for American businesses. The Commerce Department would be among those that would cease to exist.

    Congress would keep the final say, but Obama would have a stronger hand to skip much of the outside lobbying and fighting and get right to a vote.

    Attacking senseless duplication across the executive branch he runs, Obama said: 'Why is it OK for our government? It's not. It has to change.'"
    http://www.tulsaworld.com/new...

    I wonder what happened to this request from Obama? Oh right...it was introduced on Feb. 17 as the "Reforming and Consolidating Government Act of 2012", is still sitting there awaiting Congressional action, and is estimated to have only a 3% chance of being passed despite the begrudging acknowledgement of Republicans that it would be a good move. Wouldn't want Obama to have anything resembling a success now, would they? http://www.govtrack.us/congre...

    You said: "...one-trillion dollars on a laughably stupid health care act"

    Let's see... "The CBO is projecting that repeal would increase the federal deficit by around $230 billion in the next decade and by an even larger amount after that." They also project that repealing this so-called "laughably stupid health care act" would result in "insurance that is less comprehensive, less available, and in many cases more expensive"
    http://economistsview.typepad...

    Perhaps NOW you'll start to actually "understand it all".
    (more)
  • Leantom... Grandbr... 2012/06/07 22:16:01 (edited)
    Leantom, the Economic Rationalist
    Well, if we must include the CBO's analysis of the stimulus bill, then the least we can do is include their entire analysis. Also, your figures are somewhat dishonest, because the the 3-million jobs figure was falsified by the CBO in late 2011 (those were the Obama's administration's original estimates, not the CBO's 2011 reported estimates).

    "After nearly all the stimulus money has been spent, the Congressional Budget Office now admits it cost more than advertised, did less to boost growth and will hurt the economy in the long run.

    "In its latest quarterly report on the economic effects of the Obama stimulus, the CBO sharply lowered its “worst case” scenario while trimming many of its upper-bound estimates for stimulus-fueled growth and employment.

    "The new report finds, for example, that the stimulus may have added as little as 0.7% to GDP growth in 2010 — when spending was at its peak — and created as few as 700,000 new jobs.

    "Both are down significantly from the CBO’s previous worst-case scenario."

    http://news.investors.com/art...

    Now, onto your comments referring to the consolidation of federal agencies...

    This is a list of agencies created by Obamacare ALONE:

    1. Grant program for consumer assistance offices (Section 1002, p. 37)
    2. Grant program for states to monitor premium inc...






































































































































































    Well, if we must include the CBO's analysis of the stimulus bill, then the least we can do is include their entire analysis. Also, your figures are somewhat dishonest, because the the 3-million jobs figure was falsified by the CBO in late 2011 (those were the Obama's administration's original estimates, not the CBO's 2011 reported estimates).

    "After nearly all the stimulus money has been spent, the Congressional Budget Office now admits it cost more than advertised, did less to boost growth and will hurt the economy in the long run.

    "In its latest quarterly report on the economic effects of the Obama stimulus, the CBO sharply lowered its “worst case” scenario while trimming many of its upper-bound estimates for stimulus-fueled growth and employment.

    "The new report finds, for example, that the stimulus may have added as little as 0.7% to GDP growth in 2010 — when spending was at its peak — and created as few as 700,000 new jobs.

    "Both are down significantly from the CBO’s previous worst-case scenario."

    http://news.investors.com/art...

    Now, onto your comments referring to the consolidation of federal agencies...

    This is a list of agencies created by Obamacare ALONE:

    1. Grant program for consumer assistance offices (Section 1002, p. 37)
    2. Grant program for states to monitor premium increases (Section 1003, p. 42)
    3. Committee to review administrative simplification standards (Section 1104, p. 71)
    4. Demonstration program for state wellness programs (Section 1201, p. 93)
    5. Grant program to establish state Exchanges (Section 1311(a), p. 130)
    6. State American Health Benefit Exchanges (Section 1311(b), p. 131)
    7. Exchange grants to establish consumer navigator programs (Section 1311(i), p. 150)
    8. Grant program for state cooperatives (Section 1322, p. 169)
    9. Advisory board for state cooperatives (Section 1322(b)(3), p. 173)
    10. Private purchasing council for state cooperatives (Section 1322(d), p. 177)
    11. State basic health plan programs (Section 1331, p. 201)
    12. State-based reinsurance program (Section 1341, p. 226)
    13. Program of risk corridors for individual and small group markets (Section 1342, p. 233)
    14. Program to determine eligibility for Exchange participation (Section 1411, p. 267)
    15. Program for advance determination of tax credit eligibility (Section 1412, p. 288)
    16. Grant program to implement health IT enrollment standards (Section 1561, p. 370)
    17. Federal Coordinated Health Care Office for dual eligible beneficiaries (Section 2602, p. 512)
    18. Medicaid quality measurement program (Section 2701, p. 518)
    19. Medicaid health home program for people with chronic conditions, and grants for planning same (Section 2703, p. 524)
    20. Medicaid demonstration project to evaluate bundled payments (Section 2704, p. 532)
    21. Medicaid demonstration project for global payment system (Section 2705, p. 536)
    22. Medicaid demonstration project for accountable care organizations (Section 2706, p. 538)
    23. Medicaid demonstration project for emergency psychiatric care (Section 2707, p. 540)
    24. Grant program for delivery of services to individuals with postpartum depression (Section 2952(b), p. 591)
    25. State allotments for grants to promote personal responsibility education programs (Section 2953, p. 596)
    26. Medicare value-based purchasing program (Section 3001(a), p. 613)
    27. Medicare value-based purchasing demonstration program for critical access hospitals (Section 3001(b), p. 637)
    28. Medicare value-based purchasing program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 3006(a), p. 666)
    29. Medicare value-based purchasing program for home health agencies (Section 3006(b), p. 668)
    30. Interagency Working Group on Health Care Quality (Section 3012, p. 688)
    31. Grant program to develop health care quality measures (Section 3013, p. 693)
    32. Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation (Section 3021, p. 712)
    33. Medicare shared savings program (Section 3022, p. 728)
    34. Medicare pilot program on payment bundling (Section 3023, p. 739)
    35. Independence at home medical practice demonstration program (Section 3024, p. 752)
    36. Program for use of patient safety organizations to reduce hospital readmission rates (Section 3025(b), p. 775)
    37. Community-based care transitions program (Section 3026, p. 776)
    38. Demonstration project for payment of complex diagnostic laboratory tests (Section 3113, p. 800)
    39. Medicare hospice concurrent care demonstration project (Section 3140, p. 850)
    40. Independent Payment Advisory Board (Section 3403, p. 982)
    41. Consumer Advisory Council for Independent Payment Advisory Board (Section 3403, p. 1027)
    42. Grant program for technical assistance to providers implementing health quality practices (Section 3501, p. 1043)
    43. Grant program to establish interdisciplinary health teams (Section 3502, p. 1048)
    44. Grant program to implement medication therapy management (Section 3503, p. 1055)
    45. Grant program to support emergency care pilot programs (Section 3504, p. 1061)
    46. Grant program to promote universal access to trauma services (Section 3505(b), p. 1081)
    47. Grant program to develop and promote shared decision-making aids (Section 3506, p. 1088)
    48. Grant program to support implementation of shared decision-making (Section 3506, p. 1091)
    49. Grant program to integrate quality improvement in clinical education (Section 3508, p. 1095)
    50. Health and Human Services Coordinating Committee on Women?s Health (Section 3509(a), p. 1098)
    51. Centers for Disease Control Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(b), p. 1102)
    52. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(e), p. 1105)
    53. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(f), p. 1106)
    54. Food and Drug Administration Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(g), p. 1109)
    55. National Prevention, Health Promotion, and Public Health Council (Section 4001, p. 1114)
    56. Advisory Group on Prevention, Health Promotion, and Integrative and Public Health (Section 4001(f), p. 1117)
    57. Prevention and Public Health Fund (Section 4002, p. 1121)
    58. Community Preventive Services Task Force (Section 4003(b), p. 1126)
    59. Grant program to support school-based health centers (Section 4101, p. 1135)
    60. Grant program to promote research-based dental caries disease management (Section 4102, p. 1147)
    61. Grant program for States to prevent chronic disease in Medicaid beneficiaries (Section 4108, p. 1174)
    62. Community transformation grants (Section 4201, p. 1182)
    63. Grant program to provide public health interventions (Section 4202, p. 1188)
    64. Demonstration program of grants to improve child immunization rates (Section 4204(b), p. 1200)
    65. Pilot program for risk-factor assessments provided through community health centers (Section 4206, p. 1215)
    66. Grant program to increase epidemiology and laboratory capacity (Section 4304, p. 1233)
    67. Interagency Pain Research Coordinating Committee (Section 4305, p. 1238)
    68. National Health Care Workforce Commission (Section 5101, p. 1256)
    69. Grant program to plan health care workforce development activities (Section 5102(c), p. 1275)
    70. Grant program to implement health care workforce development activities (Section 5102(d), p. 1279)
    71. Pediatric specialty loan repayment program (Section 5203, p. 1295)
    72. Public Health Workforce Loan Repayment Program (Section 5204, p. 1300)
    73. Allied Health Loan Forgiveness Program (Section 5205, p. 1305)
    74. Grant program to provide mid-career training for health professionals (Section 5206, p. 1307)
    75. Grant program to fund nurse-managed health clinics (Section 5208, p. 1310)
    76. Grant program to support primary care training programs (Section 5301, p. 1315)
    77. Grant program to fund training for direct care workers (Section 5302, p. 1322)
    78. Grant program to develop dental training programs (Section 5303, p. 1325)
    79. Demonstration program to increase access to dental health care in underserved communities (Section 5304, p. 1331)
    80. Grant program to promote geriatric education centers (Section 5305, p. 1334)
    81. Grant program to promote health professionals entering geriatrics (Section 5305, p. 1339)
    82. Grant program to promote training in mental and behavioral health (Section 5306, p. 1344)
    83. Grant program to promote nurse retention programs (Section 5309, p. 1354)
    84. Student loan forgiveness for nursing school faculty (Section 5311(b), p. 1360)
    85. Grant program to promote positive health behaviors and outcomes (Section 5313, p. 1364)
    86. Public Health Sciences Track for medical students (Section 5315, p. 1372)
    87. Primary Care Extension Program to educate providers (Section 5405, p. 1404)
    88. Grant program for demonstration projects to address health workforce shortage needs (Section 5507, p. 1442)
    89. Grant program for demonstration projects to develop training programs for home health aides (Section 5507, p. 1447)
    90. Grant program to establish new primary care residency programs (Section 5508(a), p. 1458)
    91. Program of payments to teaching health centers that sponsor medical residency training (Section 5508(c), p. 1462)
    92. Graduate nurse education demonstration program (Section 5509, p. 1472)
    93. Grant program to establish demonstration projects for community-based mental health settings (Section 5604, p. 1486)
    94. Commission on Key National Indicators (Section 5605, p. 1489)
    95. Quality assurance and performance improvement program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 6102, p. 1554)
    96. Special focus facility program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 6103(a)(3), p. 1561)
    97. Special focus facility program for nursing facilities (Section 6103(b)(3), p. 1568)
    98. National independent monitor pilot program for skilled nursing facilities and nursing facilities (Section 6112, p. 1589)
    99. Demonstration projects for nursing facilities involved in the culture change movement (Section 6114, p. 1597)
    100. Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1619)
    101. Standing methodology committee for Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1629)
    102. Board of Governors for Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1638)
    103. Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Trust Fund (Section 6301(e), p. 1656)
    104. Elder Justice Coordinating Council (Section 6703, p. 1773)
    105. Advisory Board on Elder Abuse, Neglect, and Exploitation (Section 6703, p. 1776)
    106. Grant program to create elder abuse forensic centers (Section 6703, p. 1783)
    107. Grant program to promote continuing education for long-term care staffers (Section 6703, p. 1787)
    108. Grant program to improve management practices and training (Section 6703, p. 1788)
    109. Grant program to subsidize costs of electronic health records (Section 6703, p. 1791)
    110. Grant program to promote adult protective services (Section 6703, p. 1796)
    111. Grant program to conduct elder abuse detection and prevention (Section 6703, p. 1798)
    112. Grant program to support long-term care ombudsmen (Section 6703, p. 1800)
    113. National Training Institute for long-term care surveyors (Section 6703, p. 1806)
    114. Grant program to fund State surveys of long-term care residences (Section 6703, p. 1809)
    115. CLASS Independence Fund (Section 8002, p. 1926)
    116. CLASS Independence Fund Board of Trustees (Section 8002, p. 1927)
    117. CLASS Independence Advisory Council (Section 8002, p. 1931)
    118. Personal Care Attendants Workforce Advisory Panel (Section 8002(c), p. 1938)
    119. Multi-state health plans offered by Office of Personnel Management (Section 10104(p), p. 2086)
    120. Advisory board for multi-state health plans (Section 10104(p), p. 2094)
    121. Pregnancy Assistance Fund (Section 10212, p. 2164)
    122. Value-based purchasing program for ambulatory surgical centers (Section 10301, p. 2176)
    123. Demonstration project for payment adjustments to home health services (Section 10315, p. 2200)
    124. Pilot program for care of individuals in environmental emergency declaration areas (Section 10323, p. 2223)
    125. Grant program to screen at-risk individuals for environmental health conditions (Section 10323(b), p. 2231)
    126. Pilot programs to implement value-based purchasing (Section 10326, p. 2242)
    127. Grant program to support community-based collaborative care networks (Section 10333, p. 2265)
    128. Centers for Disease Control Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
    129. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
    130. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
    131. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
    132. Food and Drug Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
    133. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
    134. Grant program to promote small business wellness programs (Section 10408, p. 2285)
    135. Cures Acceleration Network (Section 10409, p. 2289)
    136. Cures Acceleration Network Review Board (Section 10409, p. 2291)
    137. Grant program for Cures Acceleration Network (Section 10409, p. 2297)
    138. Grant program to promote centers of excellence for depression (Section 10410, p. 2304)
    139. Advisory committee for young women?s breast health awareness education campaign (Section 10413, p. 2322)
    140. Grant program to provide assistance to provide information to young women with breast cancer (Section 10413, p. 2326)
    141. Interagency Access to Health Care in Alaska Task Force (Section 10501, p. 2329)
    142. Grant program to train nurse practitioners as primary care providers (Section 10501(e), p. 2332)
    143. Grant program for community-based diabetes prevention (Section 10501(g), p. 2337)
    144. Grant program for providers who treat a high percentage of medically underserved populations (Section 10501(k), p. 2343)
    145. Grant program to recruit students to practice in underserved communities (Section 10501(l), p. 2344)
    146. Community Health Center Fund (Section 10503, p. 2355)
    147. Demonstration project to provide access to health care for the uninsured at reduced fees (Section 10504, p. 2357)
    148. Demonstration program to explore alternatives to tort litigation (Section 10607, p. 2369)
    149. Indian Health demonstration program for chronic shortages of health professionals (S. 1790, Section 112, p. 24)*
    150. Office of Indian Men?s Health (S. 1790, Section 136, p. 71)*
    151. Indian Country modular component facilities demonstration program (S. 1790, Section 146, p. 108)*
    152. Indian mobile health stations demonstration program (S. 1790, Section 147, p. 111)*
    153. Office of Direct Service Tribes (S. 1790, Section 172, p. 151)*
    154. Indian Health Service mental health technician training program (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 173)*
    155. Indian Health Service program for treatment of child sexual abuse victims (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 192)*
    156. Indian Health Service program for treatment of domestic violence and sexual abuse (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 194)*
    157. Indian youth telemental health demonstration project (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 204)*
    158. Indian youth life skills demonstration project (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 220)*
    159. Indian Health Service Director of HIV/AIDS Prevention and Treatment (S. 1790, Section 199B, p. 258)*

    www.healthcare.gov/prevention...
    https://www.aamc.org/download...

    A person has to be a bleeding fool to not believe that Obama has made the list of federal agencies much larger.

    Consolidation alone doesn't eliminate federal jobs; it only realigns them and places them in a larger bureau. For instance, if a president was to make 100 new federal agencies and then, one year later, consolidate all those workers into 50 agencies, according to you he'd have shrunken the federal government. That's what Obama is doing to all the agencies he had previously created during the first part of his four-year reign in order to make it seem like he's shrinking government.


    I can also list the agencies created by the new consumer protection bureau, if you'd like.
    (more)
  • Grandbr... Leantom... 2012/06/07 23:09:00 (edited)
    Grandbrother
    So you actually cite a "worst case" scenario for the stimulus that still runs positive, and it's a "failure"? Keep in mind now - that's "worst case", not "actual" By it's very nature, that means that the actual numbers are probably notably better.

    On agencies, you seem to be operating under the extremely narrow view that the very existence of an agency is a negative thing. If that agency provides a valid service and does it well, then that's a net positive in that it affords jobs as well as performing a valuable service. The point I was raising with my earlier rebuttal is that while we must have numerous agencies, they should be run well and avoid too many redundancies. Anyone who's interested in mitigating costs on a realistic level would focus in these areas - as is Obama.
  • Leantom... Grandbr... 2012/06/09 00:55:19
    Leantom, the Economic Rationalist
    We were disputing whether or not the amount of federal agencies had grown under the Obama administration. All evidence shows that the amount of federal agencies - and therefore federal spending - has grown dramatically under the Obama administration.

    Also, the "creating federal agencies provides jobs" canard is actually an economic fallacy, since all the money used to create those jobs was taken from tax-payers (zero net gain - tax-payers would have more money to spend if those agencies weren't created and therefore would have been able to provide more private sector growth). That's actually one of the more common redistributionist fallacies - it's very easy to spot, as it makes no logical sense given the presence of the market economy.

    It doesn't make sense to create more federal agencies when hundreds of them are already grossly inefficient and unnecessary. Chances are, most of these new ones will be crap, too.

    Finally, all CBO estimates are projected. Your data represents the most optimistic projected economic growth. Mine represents the most pessimistic. It should be noted, however, that the CBO retracted its initial numbers (i.e., the optimistic ones) and replaced them (i.e., with the more pessimistic ones). The actual job growth are probably much closer to the latter and not the former.
  • Grandbr... Leantom... 2012/06/11 21:18:49
    Grandbrother
    No, we were discussing what I do or don't support. I support federal agencies that provide needed services, as long as they're decently run and avoid redundancies with other agencies. But the existence of federal agencies in and of themselves is not a problem for me, so simply listing a bunch of them is meaningless in my opinion.

    I disagree with your blanket assertion about the "zero-net gain" of jobs through agencies as well, because it depends on what those agencies do, not simply on thie existence.

    And yes, many are inefficient and unnecessary. It would seem that Obama agrees with you on that as well.
  • Ole SGT... Grandbr... 2012/06/01 18:08:14
    Ole SGT Joe
    Actually, I know a little bit about economics and I have experience first hand what a socialist state can do to it's people. They rule the people. There is no free thinking. There is no free speech. The only thing free was jail, for you, and all your family members. No cable TV, A/C, phone, toilet, but you do get conjugal sex from the prison guards! I don't play games.
  • Grandbr... Ole SGT... 2012/06/01 22:43:25
    Grandbrother
    So then you have no excuse for making the absolutely baseless, erroneous assertions that you have about either.
  • Ole SGT... Grandbr... 2012/06/09 19:43:37
    Ole SGT Joe
    You apparently have no clue so shovel your stuff elseware - REMF
  • Grandbr... Ole SGT... 2012/06/11 21:20:03
    Grandbrother
    Well, I'm not the one making wholly and demonstrably false claims, so that's that I guess. Goodbye.
  • Ole SGT... Grandbr... 2012/06/15 16:40:56
    Ole SGT Joe
    and the Earth is flat
  • Grandbr... Ole SGT... 2012/06/15 17:15:32
    Grandbrother
    Well, at least your belief that the Earth is flat is consistant with your beliefs that Obama is promoting the bankrupting of our country and the initiation of a "Socialist State" in that they all run counter to reason and facts.
  • Ole SGT... Grandbr... 2012/06/22 17:52:40
    Ole SGT Joe
    Obviously, whatever I say, for or against Mr. Obama, you will disagree. That is good. You are standing your ground and are unmovable. Me, I know very little about Mr. Obama. My position is based on what is written about him in the major newspapers published in this Country and I therefore made assumptions, which I should have not. You would think that after forty years as a practicing Engineer with a masters degree I would know better. It appears I wasted my time at MIT and then Princeton. PS: I still have my old Astronomy books and I will check out the Earth's shape.
  • Grandbr... Ole SGT... 2012/06/22 19:55:20
    Grandbrother
    "Obviously, whatever I say, for or against Mr. Obama, you will disagree"

    Not if what you say is accurate, and is grounded in demonstrable, objective reality. Saying that Obama is promoting "bankrupting the country and...initiating a Socialist State" is neither. Unfortunately, far too much of the contemporary national dialogue on U.S. politics is based on blatant falsehoods, oversimplifications and flat out ignorance.
  • Ole SGT... Grandbr... 2012/06/29 18:18:35
    Ole SGT Joe
    +1
    Well well, I believe we are on the same page. I wholly agree with you. It is hard enough to make a decision when "facts", as those that are presented through video and press, are not facts but a twisted attempt to sell the "news". Some day perhaps I may have the honor of "discussing" whatever we may want to discuss. In the meantime, thank you for the verbal "sparing"? (maybe to harsh a word but you did bring me back to reality). Do you think that we are repeating similar conversations of previous adminsitrations, or perhaps other times? That being said, this is an exciting time in my life as I retired June 2003 and now I have additional time to explore all the things and people I missed, and I have obviously missed more than I wished to miss, Although I have no regrets of my previous chosen path, I admittedly have lived in an Enginerering bubble and only within the past fews years realize there is more to life than coulombs and joules, particles, and beams. Keep up the good work, You take care.
  • A.Oscar 2012/05/09 16:12:03
    No
    A.Oscar
    Either one; America will continue fall down, also the majority countries in the world. But if Mitt Romney wins: just a bad luck, if Obama do win another term, still the same, decision between people. Good and bad always together. I prefer Ron Paul run independent and may win! Do not forget guys; the States was a racist country, even close to was South Africa, when blacks couldn’t walk on the side walk if a white person comes must the black person get out of side walk. Everything change yes; but the old folks, still remember that, and if Obama give a big problem to the States, then the past could come back again. Human beings are a funny people; only defend the own interest’s, just look to the world are now? A.Oscar
  • dallasjoe 2012/05/09 16:03:48
    Yes
    dallasjoe
    +2
    a lot of haters here
  • davyd g... dallasjoe 2012/05/09 17:59:42
    davyd god loving patriot
    +1
    yep the left is the worst, if you hate America he will
  • rcardon 2012/05/09 15:50:02
    No
    rcardon
    +2
    Honestly, I do not think he's done much, if any good for this country. Most of what he did due was against the advice of his own advisers or field experts, and did not have as much an impact as he said it would. If anything, some of his programs did the opposite of what he said they would. I don't trust him and I will vote against him.

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