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Do you think Osama bin Laden’s death should be raised now as a campaign issue?

ABC News Politics 2012/04/30 14:58:48
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  • ppk007@cfl.rr.com 2012/04/30 17:10:01
    Yes, it’s an important event that’s worth highlighting again.
    ppk007@cfl.rr.com
    +9
    Why not - did Bush try to use "Mission Accomplished".... Didn't Reagan use Carter's failed attempt to rescue the hostages against him?..so yeah, it's fair game to use it...

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  • captain... Path60 2012/05/10 11:50:48
    captainquiggle
    No matter what numbers you're choosing to use, he's lowered them from what they started at.

    When did this country NOT have a deficit?
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/10 16:26:06 (edited)
    Path60
    Nice try is that the best you can do....the numbers I "choose" to use are the government generated numbers from the Bureau of Labor statistics now why dont you go look at where they were when obama took office.....then go look at the debt during Obama's administration relative to the past........no excuse for ignorance
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/10 17:06:05
    captainquiggle
    Department of Labor quotes the unemployment rate at 8.1 percent.

    Now, either you think that he didn't come into term during a recession or you do-- which is it?

    Because an unemployment rate of 8.1 percent isn't even a full percentage point over what he took over at (7.8 percent).

    You can look at the private sector job growth and see that there's been 4 million jobs brought there. How did that happen? Magic?

    http://costofwar.com/en/

    When you compare the cost of those two wars with the debt, you'll notice we're making out pretty well, here. No?
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/10 17:19:12
    Path60
    Look at the real unemployment numbers published by the BLS which you arent
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/10 17:22:35 (edited)
    captainquiggle
    Oh, the Department of Labor isn't trustworthy, now? OH REALLY?

    Somehow the BLS is going to give me a different number?

    http://www.bls.gov/news.relea...

    OH REALLY?

    "Nonfarm payroll employment rose by 115,000 in April, and the unemployment rate was little changed at 8.1 percent, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today."

    Sorry, boss... it's the same damned number. I think reality just hit your ass in the face. Care to come again with numbers I know nothing about, because THEY DON'T EXIST?

    You've been exposed as not knowing WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Move along.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/10 17:32:56
    Path60
    Look at the u-6 numbers
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/10 17:50:35
    captainquiggle
    And?

    Look at those numbers from 2000 to 2004 and see that's without two wars and a recession. That's with the GOP running things. 4 to five point difference between the two administrations in their first term, yet Obama's administration had a lot more to deal with.

    What's your issue? I don't see it.

    Notice how in 2000 to 2004 they didn't report the u-6 numbers either. Odd, how that works for you, huh?

    You're looking for something to get up in arms about, but you've also shown the GOP can't handle the issue any better by historical fact.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/10 18:26:46
    Path60
    GOP running things with a democratic congress 2006-2007, it isnt about hat they report its hat they use the real unemployment numbers under bush wee stilll less than under Obama and you can quit with "what Obama inherited'' it doesn't wash with the realities of the last three years

    January 3, 2007 was the day that Democrats took control of both houses of Congress. Let's take a factual look at what they inherited.

    The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77

    The unemployment rate was 4.6%

    The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%

    The economy had just set a record of 52 straight months of job creation

    26 million Americans were on food stamps

    47 banks were on the FDIC problem list

    The Social Security program took in the neighborhood of 100 billion more than it paid out

    The national debt was approaching 9 trillion dollars

    Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee

    Obama became a Senator from Illinois

    Bush was on record requesting restraint on Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae 17 times

    Since then, it was Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae that dumped trillions of dollars of toxic assets on taxpayers. It was Obama who got the third highest pay-out from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It was the Democratic Congress that defended them along the way.

    So sin...

    GOP running things with a democratic congress 2006-2007, it isnt about hat they report its hat they use the real unemployment numbers under bush wee stilll less than under Obama and you can quit with "what Obama inherited'' it doesn't wash with the realities of the last three years

    January 3, 2007 was the day that Democrats took control of both houses of Congress. Let's take a factual look at what they inherited.

    The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77

    The unemployment rate was 4.6%

    The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%

    The economy had just set a record of 52 straight months of job creation

    26 million Americans were on food stamps

    47 banks were on the FDIC problem list

    The Social Security program took in the neighborhood of 100 billion more than it paid out

    The national debt was approaching 9 trillion dollars

    Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee

    Obama became a Senator from Illinois

    Bush was on record requesting restraint on Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae 17 times

    Since then, it was Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae that dumped trillions of dollars of toxic assets on taxpayers. It was Obama who got the third highest pay-out from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It was the Democratic Congress that defended them along the way.

    So since it was the Democrats that were really driving the car, I think they get the DUI even though they insisted Bush was driving. I think the evidence speaks for itself.

    WE ALL KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY!
    (more)
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/10 18:44:37
    captainquiggle
    I'm talking 2000 to 2004, though. Bush's FIRST TERM, which you can't blame on anyone but the GOP.

    You see, when you have those numbers in the books, you can see what BUSH inherited and what he ended up with... and you can see the implementation legislated in those first four years erupt in the next four. It was going downhill since Bush got in office.

    The numbers show just that. Bush inherited the lowest unemployment rate in 3 decades and a surplus of cash. You CAN blame the Democrats FOR THAT.

    Have fun. Your world isn't based in reality, but you've gone straight to GOP talking points like they're gospel. They aren't anything but spin.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/10 18:51:18
    Path60
    “Clinton Surplus” were projections and did not at all reflect the bursting dot com bubble which peaked in April 2000 and burst a month before Bush took office. The “bursting bubble” was from 2000 – 2001, the midpoint of which was AOL/Time-Warner deal happening one week before Bush was inaugurated. The “bursting bubble” cost our economy $5 trillion in value a deep recession had already begun. In the years before Bush took office, Clinton had drastically reduced defense spending because after all, the cold-war was over. I will not say there was a cause/effect, but in 2001 Bush was challenged with 9/11, a deep recession and a $5.1 Trillion hole in the economy. And sure, he initiated 2 wars but, did anyone disagree with war on the Taliban & AQ? Iraq didn’t have the same support of the public but, both Afghanistan and Iraq had the support of bi-partisan majorities in the House and Senate as well as dozens of allies.

    Bush tax cuts:
    Tax rates were lowered across-the-board in mid-2003 within 3 months the effect kicked in to jump-start the economy
    • Over the next four and a half years, 8.2 million jobs were created
    • Jobs rose for fifty-four consecutive months – that’s 4-1/2 years of job growth.
    • Non-farm payrolls rose from 130 million to 138.2 million – y...
    “Clinton Surplus” were projections and did not at all reflect the bursting dot com bubble which peaked in April 2000 and burst a month before Bush took office. The “bursting bubble” was from 2000 – 2001, the midpoint of which was AOL/Time-Warner deal happening one week before Bush was inaugurated. The “bursting bubble” cost our economy $5 trillion in value a deep recession had already begun. In the years before Bush took office, Clinton had drastically reduced defense spending because after all, the cold-war was over. I will not say there was a cause/effect, but in 2001 Bush was challenged with 9/11, a deep recession and a $5.1 Trillion hole in the economy. And sure, he initiated 2 wars but, did anyone disagree with war on the Taliban & AQ? Iraq didn’t have the same support of the public but, both Afghanistan and Iraq had the support of bi-partisan majorities in the House and Senate as well as dozens of allies.

    Bush tax cuts:
    Tax rates were lowered across-the-board in mid-2003 within 3 months the effect kicked in to jump-start the economy
    • Over the next four and a half years, 8.2 million jobs were created
    • Jobs rose for fifty-four consecutive months – that’s 4-1/2 years of job growth.
    • Non-farm payrolls rose from 130 million to 138.2 million – yep, 8.2 million new jobs.
    • Government took in more revenue. As a share of GDP, revenues rose from 16.2 % to 18.5 %. In 2003 receipts were $1.78 trillion, and in 2009 they had grown to $2.7 trillion. The tax cuts raised annual revenue to the treasury drastically. The tax cuts worked after “inheriting” a bubble, a loss of $5 trillion in the economy, a recession and 9/11, the tax cuts facilitated job growth for 4-1/2 years straight and huge increases in government revenue. The highest budget deficit in Bush’s 8 years was about 25% of revenue . . . Obama’s lowest is about 50%.
    (more)
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/10 20:48:04 (edited)
    captainquiggle
    Didn't you just say OBAMA can't lay blame to Bush for the very same backing reasons? How do you want to do this? Either He can blame Clinton and Obama can blame Bush, or not-- let me know.

    Bush, in 8 years, years lost 646 thousand private sector jobs. He only created 1 million and a half jobs in his first four years.

    In the first 13 months of Obama's presidency the private sector lost 4.212 million jobs. Since then in 27 months the private sector has added back 4.247 million jobs. That 35,000 jobs represents a milestone in this recovery.

    Sorry, but that's the facts.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/11 11:10:00
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/11 14:25:44 (edited)
    captainquiggle
    Oh, so now you want to stick to the 8.1 unemployment rate number?

    So, now your argument is to "look at what was projected?"

    Ummm... yeah. Two percentage points off is something one might expect from ANY projection. This is ending up being LESS than two percentage points off.

    Is that the best the conservative media could give you? I gave you the facts on jobs produced. We have more jobs in the private sector NOW than when OBAMA took office.

    He lowered the unemployment rate to within a percentage point of what it was WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE even though he had a REAL RECESSION to deal with. He's shown he can handle that AND end some wars. Who else could handle all of that at once and still be regarded with such vitriol as you obviously have?

    He's saved the automotive industry and killed Osama Bin Laden. Romney's got no chance.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/11 15:35:05
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/11 15:45:38
    captainquiggle
    Once again, you're in love with graphs that show a decline in 2.4 percentage points in four years, when the previous administration had a similar drop of 1.2 percent in its first four years. Yet, the first four years of Bush's presidency didn't have to deal with THE GREAT RECESSION, now did it?

    So, Obama took a TWO PERCENT HIT IN FOUR YEARS, yet produced a surplus of jobs in the private sector. And, you're upset about this? I'm sure that's something the administration couldn't fix in four more years, considering they've rebounded the country from the recession and gotten us out of one war already.

    It helps to put this all in perspective and thanks for the graph.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/11 15:48:12
    Path60
    The April employment report indicates a stalling labor market. The payroll survey reported employers created only 115,000 net jobs—enough to keep pace with population growth but not enough to reduce unemployment. Unemployment dropped only because many potential workers stopped looking for jobs. One report is not enough to demonstrate the recovery has flatlined, but it paints a discouraging picture of the economy and its near-term trend.

    This report is likely to renew calls for more stimulus spending. This would do nothing to boost the private sector; it would only stimulate the size of the government.
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/11 16:07:50
    captainquiggle
    You say that as the amount of private sector jobs created actually surpassed those lost to the recession.

    You say that as the government has only gotten smaller under the Obama administration.

    You say that with nothing more than conjecture on your side.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/11 16:14:07
    Path60
    Conjecture; hardly

    In a typical month, millions of Americans switch jobs or find work, and millions quit their jobs or are let go. The net of these millions is the change in total employment, usually a few hundred thousand jobs, while the ratio of those who are involuntarily unemployed to the total workforce provides the unemployment rate, typically around 5 percent at full employment. This remarkably dynamic process of job creation and destruction, hiring and layoffs, reflects the great labor mobility that is one of the abiding strengths of the American economy and allows the unemployment rate to dip so low.

    During the 2008–2009 recession, the unemployment rate nearly doubled from its norm of about 5 percent to 9.8 percent, and it remains around 9 percent heading into 2012. Layoffs increased during this recession as one would expect, but they were not the primary cause of the nearly 10 percent unemployment rate. In fact, layoffs have been surprisingly mild, especially given the depth of the recession. In the 2000–2001 recession, for example, employers shed 2.6 million more jobs six quarters after the recession began.

    The main factor driving the unem­ployment rate so high during the past recession and slow recovery was and con­tinues to be the sharp drop in hiring. First the cred...




    Conjecture; hardly

    In a typical month, millions of Americans switch jobs or find work, and millions quit their jobs or are let go. The net of these millions is the change in total employment, usually a few hundred thousand jobs, while the ratio of those who are involuntarily unemployed to the total workforce provides the unemployment rate, typically around 5 percent at full employment. This remarkably dynamic process of job creation and destruction, hiring and layoffs, reflects the great labor mobility that is one of the abiding strengths of the American economy and allows the unemployment rate to dip so low.

    During the 2008–2009 recession, the unemployment rate nearly doubled from its norm of about 5 percent to 9.8 percent, and it remains around 9 percent heading into 2012. Layoffs increased during this recession as one would expect, but they were not the primary cause of the nearly 10 percent unemployment rate. In fact, layoffs have been surprisingly mild, especially given the depth of the recession. In the 2000–2001 recession, for example, employers shed 2.6 million more jobs six quarters after the recession began.

    The main factor driving the unem­ployment rate so high during the past recession and slow recovery was and con­tinues to be the sharp drop in hiring. First the credit crunch and the collapse of the housing bubble dampened job creation, and then a procession of harmful economic policies so dampened business confidence and elevated uncertainty that the economy became and remains far less hospitable to growth-inducing, job-creating entrepreneurial activity.

    The basic strengths of the American economy remain undiminished and undamaged by recent events. What is lacking is not smarter nostrums from Washington, but a chance to breathe, a little clarity, a respite from the flurry of petty policies targeting the latest politicized shortcoming. The vital missing ingredient in our economy is confidence; the essential debilitation is an excess of uncertainty. Many of President Barack Obama’s policies sap confidence while heightening uncertainty.

    The simplest examples of such misguided policies are President Obama’s failed fiscal stimulus and many other efforts to boost federal spending to “create demand” in the economy. More deficit spending cannot boost the economy or reduce unemployment, because deficit spending means more borrowing, which means less money in the private sector to spend. If that were all, at least fiscal stimulus would not weaken the economy, but as federal deficits have soared, uncertainty about the future of the economy has also grown.
    This extra, government-spawned uncertainty discourages businesses from making the kinds of investments today that can produce a stronger economy tomorrow. The key to adopting true pro-growth federal policies that can lead to strong job growth is to reorient the government toward a policy of “do less harm.”
    (more)
  • Daniel 2012/04/30 20:59:28
    Yes, it’s an important event that’s worth highlighting again.
    Daniel
    I bet those Seals were Conservatives as we always get the job done.
  • Spartichaos 2012/04/30 20:55:36 (edited)
    Yes, it’s an important event that’s worth highlighting again.
    Spartichaos
    +1
    We are all guilty for the killing of Osama. The instant you felt that surge of pride and even cheered when President Bush promised revenge and said those unforgettable words... "DEAD of alive" we were no different than the Roman Plebes roaring as a mob for the next slave in the Colosseum to be executed.

    That man's death was retribution for 2984 souls who didn't deserve to perish the way they did. In all fairness I believe Bin Laden's whole family should have been executed in order to prevent his offspring from revenge in the next decade when they come of age.

    His children watched their father and one of their mothers die... THAT promotes revenge. WE should have finished the job properly with a proper execution. But all of you politically correct a-holes would be up in arms over the lack of compassion. Kind of like he displayed to us?

    "Sacrifice a few to save many." that is the name of the game these days



    Once those planes hit we were already at war. With a society that has been fighting for centuries. This war is not over... It will never be over as long as we allow governments to rule over the masses. At this point in human history we don't need a Politician to run... We need a General. We are ignorant to think otherwise!



    Obama was not the reason that man was executed...He was just the one to take the opportunity to take advantage of the moment... He is still a coward
  • clasact Spartic... 2012/04/30 21:01:33
    clasact
    +3
    If Obama had not given the order as Commander and cheif then he would still be alive today
  • Path60 clasact 2012/04/30 22:24:05
    Path60
    +1
    It was Obamas job dont try to make it anything else
  • captain... Path60 2012/04/30 23:28:38
    captainquiggle
    +2
    It was his action that did the job, unlike those in office before him that had the same opportunity and didn't act on it.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/01 10:45:35
    Path60
    his action didnt "do the job" Navy Seals did, and Clinton had a shot and didnt take it
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/01 13:10:48
    captainquiggle
    Wait? CLINTON? are you saying Clinton should've seen into the future and taken out Osama Bin Laden? Oh... really?

    Yes, he took the initiative and DID THE JOB. Without his say, those Seals wouldn't do anything but sit there and breathe.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/01 18:30:45
    Path60
    Go back and study your history and get back to me; barry made the call based on other peoples recommendations at the time he didnt take any 'initiative' except perhaps to get off the golf course long enough
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/01 18:47:28
    captainquiggle
    He took the initiative to even open up that kind of action to become policy in this issue. The GOP had nothing similar in their plan and condemned him for even mentioning it in 2007.

    The President is Commander in Chief, is he not? He has the ONLY authority to make such a call.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/01 19:37:52
    Path60
    And it was policies under bush that led to finding Ben Laden
  • captain... Path60 2012/05/01 20:13:38
    captainquiggle
    Waterboarding? There's no proof that those policies did or didn't lead to finding Bin Laden.
  • Path60 captain... 2012/05/02 10:58:11
    Path60
    Go do your homework and look at here the information came from barrys not a hero
  • Captain... clasact 2012/05/01 01:21:56
    Captain-Morgan
    +1
    HE OBAMA DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE THAT BILL CLINTON MADE THREE TIMES... THAT'S THE ONLY REASON HE GAVE THE "OK" TO THE SEAL TEAM TO GO...
  • clasact Captain... 2012/05/01 01:43:58
    clasact
    +1
    First of all I dont buy that but weather or not he still made the call and do you have any ideal how hard it is to take anohters life no matter whos it is
  • captain... clasact 2012/05/01 13:12:41
    captainquiggle
    LOL. Do I know how HARD it is to kill? I used to teach about that very same decision all the time in my martial arts classes which would incorporate weapons that very well CAN KILL. I know all about that dilemma.
  • clasact captain... 2012/05/01 15:04:22
    clasact
    teaching and doing are to very diferent things .I pent over two years in Nam and know first hand how hard it can be
  • captain... clasact 2012/05/01 15:29:01 (edited)
    captainquiggle
    I have very close friends that were in Nam as well. I know what I'm talking about. Killing is part of war. It's also a large part of self-preservation. I've choked people out and know that I could've just ended them, if I so chose. In a real-life situation, I'd have no doubts about doing that very same thing to save my life.

    Killing isn't hard. Living with the effects on your psyche is difficult.
  • clasact captain... 2012/05/01 16:33:25
    clasact
    from your last line I can tell you dont know and since you admit you have never done it your self you dont know what its really like ,,,close dont count
  • captain... clasact 2012/05/01 16:46:19
    captainquiggle
    LOL. I'm sorry, but I don't break the law in order to prove a point online.

    I watched people get killed in front of me when I was about 10. I know all about what it is to see someone dead up close and personal. I legally can't kill anyone, but if I needed to protect myself, I know I could.

    I'm not the average guy on that issue. I had to step over dead bodies on my way to school. Cops didn't come around my neck of the woods when i was growing up.
  • clasact captain... 2012/05/01 17:40:05
    clasact
    look man im not belittleing you but unless you have actually killed someone you dont know what its like and I hope to hell you never have to.To actually take the life from someone is the worst thing I have ever know and still live with it and I wish it on no one but dont think because you have seen it or had to step over a body you know whatits like you dont.The death rattle stays in you ear forever
  • captain... clasact 2012/05/01 18:48:22
    captainquiggle
    I'm sure it does, but I've heard enough of that talk from others in your situation and they seem to think I'd have what it takes. Odd, I know.
  • clasact captain... 2012/05/01 19:05:42
    clasact
    you may but you wont know till it happens and like I said I hope to hell you never have to find out

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