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Do you believe that the GM government bailout was a good thing?

Gracie - Proud Conservative 2012/08/18 19:28:53
Yes, he saved the American automotive industry...
No, it was a travesty for all involved...
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First, let's get up to speed...watch this video so you can see how the money was borrowed and how it is being paid back.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/08/15/taxpayers-gm-investmen...

Now, watch this video and see if you're as proud of GM and saving it as you should be. If you don't watch it, don't comment.


So, why does there continue to be so much proof that it's Obama that is directly and fragrantly outsourcing our tax dollars, and you still don't believe it?
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Top Opinion

  • The Lib Hater. 2012/08/18 23:01:56 (edited)
    No, it was a travesty for all involved...
    The Lib Hater.
    +82
    They are losing market share, and building a crappier product, and in the case of the Volt it is way overpriced. In other words, nothing has changed at GM. They haven't lowered their labor cost, their materials cost. This company is going down. It's been said before, some companies have a marketing problem, some a product problem, some have a labor problem, and some have management problems. GM has all those problems. Here we have 0bama running around handing out our money to state, and local governments knowing he can't do it forever, because sooner or later GM is going to drive right into reality, and guess who will get hurt the most? The sucker taxpayer. The subject, not the citizen. Now you Libs out there still want to know how 0bama is taking away our rights? Yep we are forcefully invested in GM. See libs if I had rights in this country, I would invest in what I WANT to INVEST in. Not what 0bama wants me to invest in. Let 0bama invest his own money in GM. Just leave us the hell alone.
    General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again... From Forbes.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/l...

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Opinions

  • tom C luvguins 2012/08/19 16:16:20
    tom  C
    soda head has changed my links to their own liking...
  • luvguins Jackie ... 2012/08/19 02:05:18
    luvguins
    +1
    Gee, why did Bush start the auto bailout? Let him tell you.


  • Jackie ... luvguins 2012/08/19 12:40:18 (edited)
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    16-17 Trilion to help them save their company by reducing their overhead costs and salaries - that did not happen. So Mr Incompetent gave them billions and billions more to pay off the unions for their largess in donations. In fairness they did pay back the 16-17 Bush authorized and some 20 billion of the 47 billion (approximate figures) given to them as pay offs. You know, the same payoffs he gave to his other buddies but that money was just out and out lost to the taxpayers

    They owe the Taxpayer 27 Billion which all republican, Independent and democrats; CBO, Treasury and every economist say will never be paid back. And the idiot stock deal that Obama made - well, in order for the taxpayer to break even; the stock would have to be at 56 per share and it is not even close to that.. It is taxpayer money lost. But do democrats or Obama care - hell no, as long as they can give pay offs and can convince the dim that some how the earned money of others is not really their own hard earned money but belongs to the government.

    Can you imagine someone convincing you that your salary actually wasn't yours and that you were a selfish, self serving pig if you thought it was?? No one could sell you that bilge, could they?
  • luvguins Jackie ... 2012/08/19 15:22:58
  • Gracie ... luvguins 2012/08/19 15:36:06 (edited)
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +1
    Politifact, the leftist Tampa Bay Times or the old St. Petersburg Times...they can only give it away for the coupons. The only paper that can be so bad because they don't have to make a profit, they're a non-profit organization.

    So much in that article is bogus. They're taking the word of the UAW spokesman and leaders? No bias there! Besides, they took what Romney said at face value and said it was false. We know he didn't mean they gave 100% of the company to the unions, so they can say it's false.
  • luvguins Gracie ... 2012/08/19 16:00:10
    luvguins
    All I know is that I can still buy a GM vehicle, and 1 million jobs were saved decreasing unemployment in several states like Michigan and Ohio, and those workers are grateful. I'd rather pay for those jobs than for a present or future war. Bash the unions, but you're a union employee.
  • luvguins **Starz... 2012/08/19 01:53:42
    luvguins
    +1
    Righties are all selfish, self serving pigs.
  • **Starz... luvguins 2012/08/19 13:35:07
    **StarzAbove**
    +1
    Yes they are. And they all wear blinders where the President is concerned. Oh well, guess we just have to consider the source, and be on our way.
  • tom C **Starz... 2012/08/19 14:24:34 (edited)
    tom  C
    +1
    They went into bankruptcy in june 2009....you are dead wrong...
    GM cut 20,000 jobs as part of the reorganization...to include 2000 dealerships..
    you are wrong on that too..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/0...
    http://www.economist.com/node...
  • tom C **Starz... 2012/08/19 15:45:27 (edited)
    tom  C
    +1
    http://retailindustry.about.c...

    130,000 total jobs were lost.................
  • tom C **Starz... 2012/08/18 23:57:43
    tom  C
    +8
    he saved nothing....absolutely nothing.....GM went into bankruptcy....stockholders lost everything.....when they came out of bankruptcy...they had 30 Billion of the TAXPAYERS money...MY MONEY...not Obama's money.....and I had no Vote in it.....
  • **Starz... tom C 2012/08/19 00:07:17 (edited)
    **StarzAbove**
    You're so wrong. GM didn't go into bankruptcy, he saved it from that. He saved millions of jobs. Yes some stockholders lost money, but not all of them. I know, I have GM family members who were saved by his actions. They would have lost their job, pensions, their insurance and all their benefits. Kudos to the president for saving America.

    You would realize what I'm saying is true if you had been a GM employee and was in jeopardy of losing your job. He did exactly the right thing.

    And now GM has come back bigger and stronger, thanks to the president.
  • Jackie ... **Starz... 2012/08/19 00:41:31
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +5
    It went into a managed bankruptcy - that is a fact.
  • Gracie ... **Starz... 2012/08/19 00:56:24
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +4
    Oh, I see now. It doesn't matter that the legal bondholders lost their money and that owners of dealerships lost their livelihoods, because your family got to keep theirs. Very nice!
  • tom C **Starz... 2012/08/19 14:15:06 (edited)
    tom  C
    +1
    They went into bankruptcy in june 2009....you are dead wrong...
    GM cut 20,000 jobs as part of the reorganization...to include 2000 dealerships..
    you are wrong on that too..

    http://www.economist.com/node...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/...
    http://www.reuters.com/articl...
    and...my father was a GM employee for 30 yrs....
  • Gracie ... **Starz... 2012/08/19 00:52:38
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +4
    I guess you think GM was the only one that could build and hire? He stole money from the true legal bondholders and gave it to the unions. If he did it to them, he can do it to all of us. Will it be kudos then?
  • luvguins Gracie ... 2012/08/19 02:08:01
    luvguins
    +1
    You best be worried more about the USPS. Your GOP wants to kill it.
  • Gracie ... luvguins 2012/08/19 02:21:12
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +4
    Funny, if we were really a private corporation, we would have been dead already. I read the entire bill that has come out of committee which I'm sure not that many people have done. It's never pretty when you have to be the adult in the room and come up with real solutions. It's like having to tell your children that you have to pay the bills instead of taking them to Disney World. It's not really popular but in the long run it's the viability that is important.

    Unlike the liberals who think the money is unlimited and you can kick that proverbial can down the road without a worry in the world, I live in the real world. I haven't spent a night worrying that I'll lose my job. If it happens, I'll survive. I've never taken anything for granted. My daughter just lost her job because government contracts have been cut back. She is an engineer that programmed flight simulators for the Marines and the Navy. She's a smart girl with two engineering degrees and I'm sure she'll find another job. That's just the way life goes and there are never any guarantees. You always need a back-up plan. I have a plan if I need it and I'm now eligible to retire but I can only get my retirement, not my TSP or SS, so I need to continue working.

    My plan has always been to never live beyond o...
    Funny, if we were really a private corporation, we would have been dead already. I read the entire bill that has come out of committee which I'm sure not that many people have done. It's never pretty when you have to be the adult in the room and come up with real solutions. It's like having to tell your children that you have to pay the bills instead of taking them to Disney World. It's not really popular but in the long run it's the viability that is important.

    Unlike the liberals who think the money is unlimited and you can kick that proverbial can down the road without a worry in the world, I live in the real world. I haven't spent a night worrying that I'll lose my job. If it happens, I'll survive. I've never taken anything for granted. My daughter just lost her job because government contracts have been cut back. She is an engineer that programmed flight simulators for the Marines and the Navy. She's a smart girl with two engineering degrees and I'm sure she'll find another job. That's just the way life goes and there are never any guarantees. You always need a back-up plan. I have a plan if I need it and I'm now eligible to retire but I can only get my retirement, not my TSP or SS, so I need to continue working.

    My plan has always been to never live beyond our means, and by that I mean if only one of us is working. We haven't lived in the biggest house or driven the most expensive cars but we have more than we need and we don't have all that nagging worry people have to maintain their lifestyle. We have some rentals and my husband has a small business on the side. So, if USPS goes away tomorrow, so be it.
    (more)
  • luvguins Gracie ... 2012/08/19 02:30:22
    luvguins
    +1
    Nice attitude, but what about all the other employees thrown under the bus by the Congress demanding all that pension dough?
  • Gracie ... luvguins 2012/08/19 03:19:44
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +4
    Well, I'm pretty sure that if you have a pension, you want it funded. It's a complicated matter and it depends on who you talk to about the truth of the matter. The more I research it, the less I know. They aren't funding future healthcare for employees yet to work there though, that I'm sure of. From what I can tell it's catch up payments and that's why they have such large payments in such a short time. There is a dispute between the Feds for the employees that retired under the CSRS and their time was split between the Post Office Department and the newer USPS. They made an agreement about what the Fed would be responsible for and now the USPS says it wasn't fair. They say they couldn't control future raises and blah, blah and more blah! The USPS is saying that they've overpaid the CSRS and they want their money back. The Feds say they lived up to their agreement and they're not getting it.

    I'm not sure any of the money is really anywhere. What I do know is that if you work there the decrease in mail is extremely obvious. The postal service did a lot of stupid things and are still doing stupid things despite being in this predicament. I'm making more money than ever because I'm working overtime while some people are going home early without pay. We just got a ne...



    Well, I'm pretty sure that if you have a pension, you want it funded. It's a complicated matter and it depends on who you talk to about the truth of the matter. The more I research it, the less I know. They aren't funding future healthcare for employees yet to work there though, that I'm sure of. From what I can tell it's catch up payments and that's why they have such large payments in such a short time. There is a dispute between the Feds for the employees that retired under the CSRS and their time was split between the Post Office Department and the newer USPS. They made an agreement about what the Fed would be responsible for and now the USPS says it wasn't fair. They say they couldn't control future raises and blah, blah and more blah! The USPS is saying that they've overpaid the CSRS and they want their money back. The Feds say they lived up to their agreement and they're not getting it.

    I'm not sure any of the money is really anywhere. What I do know is that if you work there the decrease in mail is extremely obvious. The postal service did a lot of stupid things and are still doing stupid things despite being in this predicament. I'm making more money than ever because I'm working overtime while some people are going home early without pay. We just got a new district boss and it's a woman. My supervisor is worried, as he should be. You can't have undertime and be paying overtime, it's just very poor management.

    I can't help the people who are going to get stuck there. We're supposed to be supportive of keeping Saturday delivery so the younger employees won't get cut but everytime I'm there on Saturday, I see that the younger ones have either taken a vacation day or have called in sick. I'm a little over worrying about their futures when they care nothing about themselves, mine or the USPS.

    That's just the way I see it.
    (more)
  • luvguins Gracie ... 2012/08/19 03:26:11
    luvguins
    +1
    Well, you are there, and I am not so thanks for your take. I just cannot see another entity providing as wide a service. People could live without Saturday delivery.
  • Gracie ... luvguins 2012/08/19 03:29:17
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +4
    I think Saturday is an essential first step, the unions disagree. It's the most unproductive day (some routes are essentially business that are closed on Saturdays). It would take the entire fleet off of the road and it would eliminate having a sub. I think the service would be better because you'd have your regular carrier every day, except for sick and vacation days. I just take it one day at a time and I do actually show up at work every day!
  • luvguins Gracie ... 2012/08/19 03:40:50
    luvguins
    +1
    Nothing I get is that important for Saturday delivery. Sounds like a real waste with business routes covered too.
  • tom C luvguins 2012/08/19 14:16:50
    tom  C
    you mean the senate don't you...as the House has repeately tried to get it passed.
  • luvguins tom C 2012/08/19 15:30:02
  • tom C **Starz... 2012/08/19 14:31:17 (edited)
    tom  C
    They went into bankruptcy in june 2009....you are dead wrong...
    GM cut 20,000 jobs as part of the reorganization...to include 2000 dealerships..
    you are wrong on that too..
    http://www.reuters.com/articl...
    http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  • ThickAzABrick 2012/08/18 22:30:18
    No, it was a travesty for all involved...
    ThickAzABrick
    +9
    Saved the auto industry? Bahahahahahaha

    Nope, Washington D.C. intervened and decided to pick who was going to be a winner rather than the marketplace. Think about it, we gave Billions to a company that was unable to turn a profit. To help sales, our Federal Government now buys and leases GM auto's, thus making it look like they have an increase in sales. It's just a matter of time before they go Tango Union again.
  • luvguins ThickAz... 2012/08/19 02:32:47
    luvguins
    +1
    Wrong as GM is number one in the world now.
  • ThickAz... luvguins 2012/08/19 02:53:10
    ThickAzABrick
    +1
    Wrong? About what? I never said where GM ranked for car sales. That has nothing to do with profitability.

    As far as your assertion, you are indeed wrong. Q1 2012 the Toyota flagship is number one in worldwide sales (again), after falling to number 3 last year due to the tsunami and nuclear problems thereafter. Volkswagen is #2 with GM 3rd.

    If you are talking about sales within the U.S., I already stated that their sales are greatly helped this year by Uncle Sam purchasing their vehicles. So think about that, since I was talking about profitability. The Federal Government is using tax dollars to buy GM cars so that GM can payback their bailout which came from tax dollars.

    BRILLIANT!
  • luvguins ThickAz... 2012/08/19 03:14:39
    luvguins
    Yeah, and Toyota's Lexus cars got downrated as they can't take an off center head on crash. Also Ford recently outsold GM in cars bought by the federal government.
  • tom C luvguins 2012/08/19 14:21:50 (edited)
    tom  C
    wrong again...failing fast...japan continues to take market share
    GM share is near an all time low...
    http://www.dailyfinance.com/2...
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/l...
  • tom C luvguins 2012/08/19 14:23:53
    tom  C
    headed for bankruptcy again...
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/l...
  • sglmom 2012/08/18 22:28:13
    No, it was a travesty for all involved...
    sglmom
    +9
    NO ... (absolutely NO)
    There should NEVER have been any "bailing" at all ..
    let the one desiring to tank its business FAIL ..
    there's always room for competition ..
    and those businesses that do not adapt .. change .. innovate ..
    will be on the Ash Heap of so many others who failed to meet the evolving market ...
  • Mr. Smith 2012/08/18 22:24:21
    No, it was a travesty for all involved...
    Mr. Smith
    +7
    This was a huge government take-over. A corrupt and crony deal giving the unions a huge ownership stake in GM, also highly illegal on behalf of the government to get in the way of private legal contracts. This is everything the left claims they hate about the right. It's corporatism, which is nothing more than soft-fascism. No company is too big to fail, and we have bankruptcy laws in place to protect businesses and investors for cases exactly like this.
  • flaca BN-0 Mr. Smith 2012/08/18 23:17:44
    flaca BN-0
    so you'd rather have all our vehicle choices come from Asia then? They would have loved that.
  • Mr. Smith flaca BN-0 2012/08/19 00:48:40
    Mr. Smith
    +2
    Explain how you jump to that conclusion.

    Are you not familiar with our bankruptcy laws? Do you not realize that other investors, or even another company, would come along and buy the GM brand for a fraction of the stock price? They would restructure the organization, get rid of the unprofitable divisions and turn the company around.

    But here's where things get interesting, under that scenario, guess what union organization would also have to restructure and renegotiate their contract??? If you guessed the Democrats FAVORITE union cronies, the UAW, you'd be correct. You see, the government couldn't allow GM to go into bankruptcy because then the UAW would have no leverage over GM. So the UAW's partners in government came along and did the restructuring themselves, illegally of course, making sure the bond holders were out and gave the UAW the sweetheart deal of the century.

    This was straight up crony and corrupt corporatism, it had nothing to do with protecting GM or its employees.
  • luvguins Mr. Smith 2012/08/19 02:27:02
    luvguins
    So you are accusing Bush of corrupt corporatism now? Hmm, let him explain.


  • Mr. Smith luvguins 2012/08/19 02:37:58
    Mr. Smith
    +1
    Abso-freakin-lutely! Corporatism wasn't invented with Obama. So, how does that make what Obama did any better in your eyes??? Because Bush did it???
  • luvguins Mr. Smith 2012/08/19 02:51:16
    luvguins
    Just tired of Obama being blamed entirely for everything. GM is profitable and number one in the world now.
  • Mr. Smith luvguins 2012/08/19 14:13:34
    Mr. Smith
    He's just continuing the corporatist/crony/corrupt policies of both parties. Obama is just a huge part of an ongoing problem and making it worse.

    And GM should be profitable after giving them nearly 4 times GMs 2008 market cap. Here's a great article on this subject.

    GM's Profits are Still a Huge Net Loss For Taxpayers

    http://www.theatlantic.com/bu...

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