Do You Believe in UFOs?

So far there is only one planet that has been detected that orbits Epsilon Eridani, but our three methods for detecting planets at current levels is primitive. Planets are a natural byproduct of star formation, and the distribution of those planets are uniform, where the solid planets are in close to the star and the large gaseous ones are farther out. What has been detected around Epsilon Eridani is a large gaseous Jupiter like planet. There have been more than fifty planets discovered outside our solar system so far, and those numbers are increasing every year. There's even been a water planet discovered around a star that's 40 light years away called GJ 1214b, that is two and a half times the size of earth. Smaller earth sized planets and even smaller moons are impossible to detect given our current technology, but that will change. Water is the key element for life, which is why life will be discovered on Jupiter's moon Europa in 2027. Europa has more water than planet earth - over twice as much.

A hundred years ago scientists were unanimous in the belief that no life could exist at the bottom of our oceans. The pressures were too great for life as we knew it to survive. Then technology allowed us to send a robotic submarine to the bottom of the Atlantic ocean - so deep that there is no light, and in 1977 mankind discovered whole eco systems thriving around volcanic vents at the oceans floor. Those discoveries changed the way man thinks about how life exists in the most hostile of environments.

The evidence is there - you just refuse to acknowledge it. I mentioned the foo-fighters that were sighted by dozens of fliers during world war II. Your response: "That fighter pilots see something they don't recognize is not an argument for extra-terrestrial visitors."
You would have to read the accounts, and the lack of any logical scientific explanation for those flying lighted craft before you can come to a rational conclusion. The story even made Time Magazine in 1945.

You are totally ignoring the facts that many UFO's were spotted by allied and axis pilots during world war II. You are also ignoring that the US government has been actively covering up UFO reports, including the crash in Roswell, New Mexico. Even NASA astronauts have observed UFO's duing space flights, as well as countless commericial pilots sightings. During the Columbia STS-80 flight, a disk sized object larger than the shuttle itself parked itself right under the shuttle 190 miles above Denver Colorado and was recorded. Ask retired astronaut Dr. Story Musgrave, who was a mission specialist on that shuttle flight if he believes in intelligent aliens visiting earth. His own words, when referring to gray aliens: "These guys are real...I guarantee it!" Ask former NASA astronauts Gordon Cooper, Donald Slayton, Gene Cernan, Frank Borman, Neil Armstrong and Scott Carpenter if they believe that UFO's and alien intelligence exist. They will give you the same answers that Dr. Story Musgrave gave. These are not amateurs, rather trained scientists and pilots. Why don't you write those professionals and argue your "lack of evidence" points with them.

I have never concluded that anything observed flying that is not identified is an alien intelligence. You keep bringing up the argument that there is no evidence, yet there is plenty of evidence, but when governments cover it up and use their extensive power to do so, there will be no evidence found available to the public.

The Roswell incident is something I have personal knowledge of, and some of that knowledge is very detailed. I didn't see the craft or the dead and dying alien bodies myself, but my friend's Grandfather's friend did, and I have no reason to not believe him. You keep bringing up the limits of space travel and the size of the universe as reasoning for no alien life to have visited earth in the past, but that is truly ignorant given that some alien intelligence could have been traversing space for a million years. You are using man's current technology in space travel as a measuring parameter, and that is absurd. You can't imagine what ability mankind will have in space travel in a thousand or even a couple hundred years.

The Roswell incident was reported correctly when the news first broke, but then the Army came in and gathered all the evidence and then the government produced a cover story of a high altitude weather balloon with plastic human dummies on board. That cover story was ridiculous, as the beings observed by my friends Grandfather's friend were small GRAY beings with large dark eyes, and two were dead and the third was dying. The wreckage was spread over an area of over three hundred yards, and there was a large gash in the ground at initial impact. A weather balloon falling to earth would not hit an an angle, and there was not a weather balloon that big to produce so much debris. Remember, I learned about the event in 1967, just twenty years after the crash. This was long before UFO's became popular on TV and the media.

You have a very strange sense of reality. I must ask, seeing that you do not reveal any details about yourself in your profile. How old are you, and what is your level of education?

If we were having this conversation two hundred years ago and I told you that in a couple of centuries that man could fly from Paris to New York in three hours and 45 minutes on a commercial aircraft, I suspect that you would be giving the same kinds of responses that you are giving now. "There's no evidence".

The government of the US and other governments have been covering up UFO activity for many years. If you look up information about foo fighters during world war II on Wikipedia, you would find this:
"Most of the information about the issue has never been released by military intelligence."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Why do you think that is? The US government has good reasons to keep knowledge of UFO's secret. They have stigmatized anybody or any pilots that have observed UFO's for decades. They cover it up and refuse to reveal what they know, just like they covered up the Roswell incident, and countless other UFO encounters over the last 67 years. But they can't stop people from telling what they know, from an old farmer in Roswell to retired NASA astronauts. I don't think they are lying, but apparently you do because you have not seen the evidence.

I have never claimed "faster-than-light travel technology". I tried to explain to you about the possible existence of worm holes in space, and how an advanced civilization might be able to create a worm hole to travel through vast distances in space in short time spans. You do understand Einstein's theory of relativity don't you? The faster you go, the slower time passes. This have already been PROVEN in 1971.
The existence of worm holes are very possible, and Einstein and other Physicists' theories can account for them with math.

Current space travel technology for mankind is at a very primitive level. But in two hundred years, there will be space travel technology that will achieve 90% of light speed, and interstellar space travel will then be possible for us. Man could reach Alpha Centuri in five years. A possible mode of transportation would be rockets powered by hydrogen explosions, or ion rocket technology. Remember that it was only eight years, three months and eight days from the time mankind first reached space to the time he first set foot on the moon. And it was only another 17 years after that when man had a continuous presence in space, for the last 25 years, first with the Russian Mir space station and then with the International Space Station. Mankind will have landed on Mars within another fifty years, Europa in 75 years, and the outer planets in about a hundred years. We will be reaching for the closest star in less than two hundred years. It's in our nature to explore. That's a natural product of intelligence, and other intelligent beings from other star systems are the same way. It may be a thousand years of space travel technology to achieve worm hole capability, or maybe a million years, but it all is possible, and very probable. Just because we don't have that ability now doesn't mean that others have not had it for centuries.

My profile isn't relevant to this conversation. And of the two of us, I'm not the one with the strange sense of reality.

200 years ago there was evidence that man might some day fly. We call them birds. Clear evidence that things heavier than air can fly. Why do you think people tried to make the flying machines in the first place? Not to mention the fact that rockets existed far before that.

Reports of unidentified flying objects (e.g. foo fighters) are NOT evidence for extra terrestrial visitors. They are *by definition* UNIDENTIFED - I.e. NOT identified as being alien spacecraft!
http://skeptoid.com/episode_g...
Bringing them up yet again is not helping your argument.

You came up with theories that atomic bomb detonations called the aliens here... and they arrived in 2 years... from a world that was where exactly? The closest possibilities are farther than 2 light-years away. So you implied faster-than-light travel. Let's just say that wormholes are a mechanism for doing that. You then have to show me a wormhole somewhere nearby. They are theoretical and have never been observed. It is a good theory, but still not evidence.

It's like you don't even understand what evidence is.

The fact that we wish to explore space and will likely send man to another planet in this solar system - again, not evidence for aliens.

The fact remains that so far everything presented as evidence for extra-terrestrial visitors has been either a hoax, has been explained by known phenomena that isn't extraterrestrial, or remains unexplained.. nothing has confirmed aliens visiting this planet, and the possibility of that having ever happened in our lifetime remains highly unlikely.

While it is true that worm holes have not been discovered as of yet, black holes have been discovered, and they were a part of THEORY before they were known as scientific FACT. Most scientific facts are preceded by scientific theories.

I don't understand how you can be so narrow minded on the subject of alien intelligence. In my mind, anybody that doesn't believe that extraterrestrial intelligent beings exist belongs to the flat earth society, those with the absence of rational thought. An alien society that originated from a star system that was 20 or 30 light years away would have ample opportunity to visit earth in the past, especially if they have been traveling in space for a thousand years, or have a technology that is just a thousand years more advanced than our own. They may have outposts in space that are 10 trillion miles apart all the way back to their home star system. Think of a society of aliens that have been traversing space for a million years. They would have the opportunity to explore and visit tens of thousands of earth like planets and tens of thousands of other star systems.

I never implied faster than light space travel. You are making those erroneous assumptions. I believe that Einstein was correct, and that other scientists like Stephen Hawking and others are also correct.

You seem to ignore basic logic. Mankind has been visiting space for 51 years, and for the last 25 years, or half that time we have had a PERMANENT PRESENCE of humans in space. It is highly likely that humans will continue to have a presence in space into the future, and the longer that time passes, the FURTHER AWAY humans will be traveling and living in space. A permanent moon base and a permanent Mars base is not that far off into our future. The logical conclusion is that someday man will visit another star system, and I believe that day would be about two hundred years away. We would first send robotic spacecraft to that system just as we are doing now to Mars and other planets. Space exploration for mankind is not going to stop, as long as our civilization continues to exist.

The Roswell incident of July 8th, 1947 WAS NOT A HOAX, and the Shag Harbor incident of October 4, 1967 was not a hoax either. There were too many credible witnesses for the incident to be a hoax, and the response from the Canadian and United States governments lends even more credibility that the incident was real. If you don't want to believe it, fine. Believe everything your government tells you and keep your blinders on.

And there are plenty of scientific theories that turn out to be wrong as well. That wormholes are a valid theory doesn't mean we have been visited by aliens.

I do believe in extraterrestrial life. I just don't believe any has visited this planet. I've made that clear several messages back.

You seem to ignore basic facts... Out precedes in space has been very limited to a small region around our own planet. The farthest we'e made it so far is our own moon.

Now lets assume we do continue to expand how far out we go... do you think if we got to another world with life we would leave no trace of being there? If aliens visited here it would be improbably that there would be no evidence. And there is no evidence.

The Roswell incident was not a hoax. It was a crashed military experiment - it's well documented. That there were witnesses that didn't know that they were seeing and jumped to the conclusion that it was space aliens is nothing more than amusing.

The Shag Harbour incident was not a hoax. It involved an *unidentified* flying object - NOT aliens. Simply because something is unknown does not lend any credence to a far-fetched alien visitation story. How can you make that leap in logic? Not knowing means not knowing. It doesn't mean you know it is aliens.

How is it that these aliens have amazing tech that lets them reach us, yet they always seem to crash, leave no trace, and never actually communicate in any way that leaves a shred of evidence? It's absurd and highly improbable.

Your logic is what is improbable. As far as I know, there has only been one crash of a UFO, in Roswell.
My friend's Grandfathers friend found the crash, found the still breathing alien, and it was not of this world. When retired NASA astronauts come out and admit that aliens are real, I tend to believe them. I was told about specific details of the Roswell crash in 1967 that have not been publicized in the media, which is why I believe it to be true. The military didn't even know that anything had crashed until they were told by the farmer that found the crash. Then they swept in and gathered the three alien bodies, all the debris, and then threatened with arrest those that had knowledge of the incident to not talk about it to the press or anybody. That is why the Roswell incident was the "secret" that most in the town knew about. My friend was letting me in on the secret, just as I was telling him about military hardware deployed in Germany in the 60's that I had knowledge about.

The Shag Harbor incident was a UFO that was seen plunging into the sea. It was assumed to be a crashed aircraft seen by dozens of people, including military personal, and a search for survivors was undertaken. It was determined there was no missing aircraft the next day. Then the US Navy got involved, and they followed this crafts movements underwater for several days. One of the Navy divers saw the craft up close, and he had said off the record that it was not of this earth. He, along with all other military personal are ordered to not discuss the subject, just like the military personal involved with the Roswell crash were ordered. Just like the pilots that saw the foo fighters in world war II. Just like the military personal on the USS Curtiss that was carrying nuclear weapons for a test in the Pacific that was buzzed by a UFO in 1948.

Like I said before, the US government has been actively covering up any and all UFO information. They have good reasons for doing so. It's in the governments interest to keep religion alive and well in this country. If they came out and admitted that aliens are real and they have the evidence of it, that would be a huge blow for religion in this country. It would throw out some of the basic principles of the Bible. The "God made man in his own image" verses would be disputed with scientific facts. The reality is that if an asteroid didn't hit the earth 65 million years ago, mankind would have never got its start on this planet, and dinosaurs would still be the dominate species on this earth.