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Do military personnel/veterans HAVE TO SUPPORT the sitting president and his agenda?

Drummerboy 2012/12/20 20:10:39
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Earlier today I was absolutely lambasted on one of those liberal Obama threads by some guy who basically was making the claim that because I am a Marine, I am therefore REQUIRED to support whomever is the incumbent president at the time. And I mean this person went off the deep end on me because of my anti-Obama stance, telling me I should be in jail and all kinds of shit. He went on to make the assumptive claim that no Marine would EVER speak out against a sitting president and went so far as to claim in Vietnam he would have fragged me, hehehehehehe.

Well I happen to belong to a JARHEAD group on this very website where there are Marines who not only speak out against Obama, they DESPISE HIM. And there are Marines in this group who fully support Obama as well.

So I got to thinking about this and you know what, the oath of enlistment I TOOK back when I enlisted says absolutely NOTHING about SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT AND HIS POLICIES/AGENDA. What it DOES SAY, however, is that I will swear to support and defend THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. Concerning the president, it simply says I have to OBEY THE PRESIDENT, to wit:

Oath of Enlistment


I, ____________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Hmmmmmm...................................I just can't seem to find that I WILL SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE clause in there anywhere, can someone point it out to me please?

Back the first part of November I had the HONOR AND PRIVILEGE of interviewing for one of my Veteran's Day shows, the most decorated veteran of the Vietnam War, Major General Patrick Henry Brady. General Brady, in addition to winning both the Distinguished Service Cross AND the Congressional Medal of Honor, won over 52 air combat medals while flying helicopter rescue missions in Vietnam. General Brady is one of the MOST OUTSPOKEN opponents of Obama there is, and I posed this very question to General Brady about 3/4 of the way through our interview. His reply to me was that while he does not condone the speaking out derogatorily against the president while in uniform, that as citizens, military personnel have every right to NOT support the president although they are REQUIRED to OBEY the president.

I was honorably discharged form the Marine Corps in March of 1976 and to this day I stand on the claim that I, as a citizen of the Untied States of America and a United States Marine, have EVERY RIGHT to openly voice my non support/opposition to the sitting president and his policies/agenda.

Come to think of it, since this person himself is a Vietnam Veteran and obviously an ardent Obama supporter, I'm extremely curious to hear his stand of President Bush and whether or not he would hold himself to the same standard he's attempting to hold me to?
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  • Semper Fi 2012/12/20 21:08:25 (edited)
    NO, you have every right as a private citizen and honorably discharged vetera...
    Semper Fi
    +12
    OUTSTANDING POST!

    Absolutely not! Nowhere in our sworn oath does it reference anything about supporting the sitting president's agenda.

    My heart goes out to our active military for having to serve under this inept president and Congress.

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  • Wesloco 2012/12/30 18:03:19
    NO, you have every right as a private citizen and honorably discharged vetera...
    Wesloco
    +1
    This is the most American of all rights guaranteed in the First Amendment.
  • James 2012/12/28 03:58:02
    NO, you have every right as a private citizen and honorably discharged vetera...
    James
    +1
    Good to know that if there were ever a situation when our own government ordered the military to take up arms against its own citizens that there will be those in the military who would find those orders wrong.
  • Drummerboy James 2012/12/28 11:51:25
  • pamela 2012/12/24 20:36:26
    OTHER, here is what I think about that:
    pamela
    +1
    Any person being in the military past, present or future, has the right to their own opinions and feelings about any sitting president. Though I also feel, and unfortunately that things need the sequence in the chain of command on how some things, even through the military should be handled. You may not agree with what the sitting president might want to do, but that is why we also have the commanding officers, in each military branch, to help make decisions on where to go and how to handle different situations. Obama does not know anything at all about our military, and that is why we have those in chain of command to give debate on what is good and appropriate on each military function and drills. obama the troll
  • jumpboots 187th PIR 2012/12/23 03:39:07
    NO, you have every right as a private citizen and honorably discharged vetera...
    jumpboots 187th PIR
    +1
    This is what freedom is all about,and another thing just to look at him makes me wan't to puke.
  • Dogzebra~PWCM~JLA 2012/12/22 22:05:35
    OTHER, here is what I think about that:
    Dogzebra~PWCM~JLA
    +1
    The military oath taken at the time of induction reads:
    .
    "I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"
    .
    The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.

    So, to obey, or not to obey? It depends on the order. Military members disobey orders at their own risk. They als...
    The military oath taken at the time of induction reads:
    .
    "I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"
    .
    The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.

    So, to obey, or not to obey? It depends on the order. Military members disobey orders at their own risk. They also obey orders at their own risk. An order to commit a crime is unlawful. An order to perform a military duty, no matter how dangerous is lawful, as long as it doesn't involve commission of a crime. So, when in doubt, proceed with caution.
    (more)
  • Ron in Oregon 2012/12/22 21:34:34
    NO, you have every right as a private citizen and honorably discharged vetera...
    Ron in Oregon
    +1
    He is commander in chief, nothing more.
    Liking his agenda is not a prerequisite.
  • Drummerboy Ron in ... 2012/12/22 21:53:45
  • Drummerboy Drummerboy 2012/12/22 22:04:00
  • Heptarch 2012/12/22 11:56:40
  • roxie 2012/12/22 02:56:27
    YES, if you're a veteran you are required to fully support ANY SITTING PRESID...
    roxie
    Dooler I Am A Veteran and My Vote Was Counted. Now Move on!
  • Fannie 2012/12/22 01:17:46
    OTHER, here is what I think about that:
    Fannie
    +1
    Please stop with the drama, and pitting Americans against Americans. Be nice, and I'll be happy.
  • ☆astac☆... Fannie 2012/12/22 23:11:49
    ☆astac☆~PWCM
    +1
    Progressives are the enemy, they are not Americans
  • Fannie ☆astac☆... 2012/12/23 01:00:12
    Fannie
    +1
    Holy hell, ain't you historic! What other stories do you know?
  • ☆astac☆... Fannie 2012/12/23 17:04:29
    ☆astac☆~PWCM
    Progressives are the enemy, they are not Americans
  • Fannie ☆astac☆... 2012/12/23 17:06:23
    Fannie
    Listen to ascap.........he be number one snappy, SNAP.
  • ☆astac☆... Fannie 2012/12/23 17:08:14
    ☆astac☆~PWCM
    Progressives are the enemy, they are not Americans
  • Fannie ☆astac☆... 2012/12/23 17:09:02
    Fannie
    And more.............of the same.
  • txDON'TMESSw/GOVRickPerry! 2012/12/22 00:34:52
    NO, you have every right as a private citizen and honorably discharged vetera...
    txDON'TMESSw/GOVRickPerry!
    +2
    Christopher Columbus! (as Jo would say repeatedly in Little Women, the movie) our military is not 'droned out' YET! Our military men and women have their own grey matter to form their personal opinions, from a very inside perspective I might add. :)

    They, beside being a member of our fighting forces, are INDIVIDUALS thereby entitled to their own path in life which includes political choices.

    In my mind, they are STILL and REMAIN the BEST military on this planet and I respect them, pray for them, and love their spirit and courage.

    Politicians are a dime a dozen, our Defenders of Freedom PRICELESS!

    Defenders of Freedom
  • Ron in ... txDON'T... 2012/12/22 21:38:57
    Ron in Oregon
    +2
    Right on
  • Surly Curmudgen 2012/12/21 23:29:58
    NO, you have every right as a private citizen and honorably discharged vetera...
    Surly Curmudgen
    +1
    Even while still on active duty you can speak out against the president and or his policies. Just do not do that while wearing the uniform or stating you are active duty. Not that we have a president at this time. HHHMMMM court martialed for disparaging Obama and use as a defence that we do not currently have a president due to Obama not being qualified for the office. That is a slightly different attack than the earlier cases.
  • Heptarch Surly C... 2012/12/22 12:01:04
    Heptarch
    +3
    "Even while still on active duty you can speak out against the president and or his policies."

    You're not supposed to, actually. Now, having a conversation between you and another service member is one thing, putting it in a medium where it exists for others to see it (Facebook, Twitter, blog, etc) is different.

    "HHHMMMM court martialed for disparaging Obama and use as a defence that we do not currently have a president due to Obama not being qualified for the office."

    Who are you talking about? The guy who refused to deploy because Obama "didn't have the right" to deploy him?
  • Sissy Heptarch 2012/12/22 20:22:28
    Sissy
    +2
    lol. That does sound like the soldier who did just that....refused to be deployed. Forgot about that one.
  • ☆astac☆... Sissy 2012/12/22 23:13:04
    ☆astac☆~PWCM
    +1
    Actually the military can talk crap about idiots like obama and his supporters, nothing wrong with that at all, in fact it should be encouraged
  • ur XLNC-PWCM 2012/12/21 23:18:03
    NO, you have every right as a private citizen and honorably discharged vetera...
    ur XLNC-PWCM
    Is blatant ignorance a crime or a disease?
  • gimini210 2012/12/21 22:21:11
    NO, you have every right as a private citizen and honorably discharged vetera...
    gimini210
    +1
    You gave the most to be able to have the freedoms that others have so even if you are still in the military you should have the right to stand on your believes and values even if they do not match the presidents. After all, you are ready to die so the rest of us can so who has the right to deny you the same freedoms?
  • marcuss LIBERALS ARE TRAITORS 2012/12/21 20:40:24
    NO, you have every right as a private citizen and honorably discharged vetera...
    marcuss LIBERALS ARE TRAITORS
    +1
    As a combat veteran I am fully against what 0WEbama has done and continues to do to this country.
  • kudabux 2012/12/21 20:01:40
    OTHER, here is what I think about that:
    kudabux
    +1
    Most of them support Boehner and the teabaggers who want to slice 16 million in vet benefits. And most ignore the fact that they are to obey the commander in chief. The pollster is ignorant and I doubt if he is even a marine. He is an embarrassment to the Corps
  • Sgt Maj... kudabux 2012/12/22 00:44:21
    Sgt Major B
    +2
    ...And you served when and where so that you can claim to be an authority on who is or isn't in the military or who poses an embarassment to any institution?
  • kudabux Sgt Maj... 2012/12/22 14:58:00
    kudabux
    +2
    My four uncles, two brothers, son and niece are all US Marines and none of them disrespect the president. I did not serve. When I told my father I was joining, he pitched a fit. And though I am not an authority on who is or who is not a Marine, I have come across some wannabee's and some imposters. They are out there.
  • Sgt Maj... kudabux 2012/12/22 20:47:42
    Sgt Major B
    +1
    I come from a family that's provided 22 soldiers, 6 sailors, 2 airmen, a marine and a coast guardsman over the past 150 years and of those still living, not one of us supports Obama. Neither do any of my friends that served.

    The oath of enlistment requires that enlisted personnel obey the orders of the President, but that's vastly different than 'supporting him'. Neither does anything in the UCMJ require such support. If anyone in America has earned the right to speak out against policies they don't believe in, it's those who have served in harm's way for the benefit of the nation.

    Personally, I believe the last Democrat to occupy the oval office that deserved any respect was Lyndon Johnson.

    http://usmilitary.about.com/o...
  • kudabux Sgt Maj... 2012/12/22 21:20:24
    kudabux
    +1
    Thank you for your service and I apologize for being such a twit. Bad time of year for me and I get nasty.

    I admired LBJ also for his policies on helping the poor. But I thought most Viet Nam era vets wrongfully blamed for Viet Nam
  • Sgt Maj... kudabux 2012/12/22 23:30:07
    Sgt Major B
    +1
    Never blamed Johnson for Vietnam. Never really blamed anybody.

    "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

    Some of us truly believed. I still do.
  • Heptarch kudabux 2012/12/22 12:02:23
    Heptarch
    +2
    Marine should be capitalized, Kuda.

    Did you serve in the Corps?
  • kudabux Heptarch 2012/12/22 14:55:45
    kudabux
    +1
    My bad. Of course it should be. My four uncles, two brothers, son and niece are all US Marines and none of them disrespect the president.
  • Heptarch kudabux 2012/12/22 15:13:11 (edited)
    Heptarch
    +1
    I appreciate your respect and admiration of the Corps.

    Now, having said that, every Marine is different. Some take the rightward road, some the left and some distance themselves from politics entirely. I may not agree with Drummer, but he has every right to his own opinion, just as any civilian does.

    I think his anger, nastiness and willful ignorance about the President are ridiculous, but I don't consider him an embarrassment to the Corps. After all, the Corps is fundamentally an organization that gives everything it has to protect the rights of Americans, including the right to free speech. We (Marines) even give up our rights to do so for while.

    So let's disagree with him without slandering how he reflects on his beloved Marine Corps, ok?
  • kudabux Heptarch 2012/12/22 15:44:56
    kudabux
    +1
    Sorry, but I still think he is disrespecting "his beloved Marine Corps" . :-)
  • Heptarch kudabux 2012/12/22 16:34:30
    Heptarch
    +1
    Then you and I will disagree as well.

    To me, he would only be disrespecting or embarrassing the Corps if he acted on his ridiculous beliefs to, say, try to assassinate the President. Particularly if he had written some manifesto professing that he did it because the Marines had taught him to think that way.

    If we take your position to its logical conclusion, it would mean that you believe all Marines must, necessarily, have the same opinions and express them identically or else they are embassing the Corps. I reject that.

    I may think Drummer's beliefs are ridiculous and that he is making a fool of himself... but I don't think he's making mockery of the Marine Corps.
  • kudabux Heptarch 2012/12/22 19:06:01
    kudabux
    +1
    No, when they are on active duty, they have no opinions. But I have to agree that when they retire from the Corps, then they could be as ridiculous and boneheaded as they want.
  • Heptarch kudabux 2012/12/22 19:40:50
    Heptarch
    +1
    "No, when they are on active duty, they have no opinions."

    Of course they do. They just don't talk about them if they value their honor.

    " But I have to agree that when they retire from the Corps, then they could be as ridiculous and boneheaded as they want."

    And that's what Drummer is doing.
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