OUTSTANDING POST!
Absolutely not! Nowhere in our sworn oath does it reference anything about supporting the sitting president's agenda.
My heart goes out to our active military for having to serve under this inept president and Congress.
Do military personnel/veterans HAVE TO SUPPORT the sitting president and his agenda?
Drummerboy
2012/12/20 20:10:39
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Earlier today I was absolutely lambasted on one of those liberal Obama threads by some guy who basically was making the claim that because I am a Marine, I am therefore REQUIRED to support whomever is the incumbent president at the time. And I mean this person went off the deep end on me because of my anti-Obama stance, telling me I should be in jail and all kinds of shit. He went on to make the assumptive claim that no Marine would EVER speak out against a sitting president and went so far as to claim in Vietnam he would have fragged me, hehehehehehe.
Well I happen to belong to a JARHEAD group on this very website where there are Marines who not only speak out against Obama, they DESPISE HIM. And there are Marines in this group who fully support Obama as well.
So I got to thinking about this and you know what, the oath of enlistment I TOOK back when I enlisted says absolutely NOTHING about SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT AND HIS POLICIES/AGENDA. What it DOES SAY, however, is that I will swear to support and defend THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. Concerning the president, it simply says I have to OBEY THE PRESIDENT, to wit:
Oath of Enlistment
I, ____________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
Hmmmmmm...................................I just can't seem to find that I WILL SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE clause in there anywhere, can someone point it out to me please?
Back the first part of November I had the HONOR AND PRIVILEGE of interviewing for one of my Veteran's Day shows, the most decorated veteran of the Vietnam War, Major General Patrick Henry Brady. General Brady, in addition to winning both the Distinguished Service Cross AND the Congressional Medal of Honor, won over 52 air combat medals while flying helicopter rescue missions in Vietnam. General Brady is one of the MOST OUTSPOKEN opponents of Obama there is, and I posed this very question to General Brady about 3/4 of the way through our interview. His reply to me was that while he does not condone the speaking out derogatorily against the president while in uniform, that as citizens, military personnel have every right to NOT support the president although they are REQUIRED to OBEY the president.
I was honorably discharged form the Marine Corps in March of 1976 and to this day I stand on the claim that I, as a citizen of the Untied States of America and a United States Marine, have EVERY RIGHT to openly voice my non support/opposition to the sitting president and his policies/agenda.
Come to think of it, since this person himself is a Vietnam Veteran and obviously an ardent Obama supporter, I'm extremely curious to hear his stand of President Bush and whether or not he would hold himself to the same standard he's attempting to hold me to?
Well I happen to belong to a JARHEAD group on this very website where there are Marines who not only speak out against Obama, they DESPISE HIM. And there are Marines in this group who fully support Obama as well.
So I got to thinking about this and you know what, the oath of enlistment I TOOK back when I enlisted says absolutely NOTHING about SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT AND HIS POLICIES/AGENDA. What it DOES SAY, however, is that I will swear to support and defend THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. Concerning the president, it simply says I have to OBEY THE PRESIDENT, to wit:
Oath of Enlistment
I, ____________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
Hmmmmmm...................................I just can't seem to find that I WILL SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE clause in there anywhere, can someone point it out to me please?
Back the first part of November I had the HONOR AND PRIVILEGE of interviewing for one of my Veteran's Day shows, the most decorated veteran of the Vietnam War, Major General Patrick Henry Brady. General Brady, in addition to winning both the Distinguished Service Cross AND the Congressional Medal of Honor, won over 52 air combat medals while flying helicopter rescue missions in Vietnam. General Brady is one of the MOST OUTSPOKEN opponents of Obama there is, and I posed this very question to General Brady about 3/4 of the way through our interview. His reply to me was that while he does not condone the speaking out derogatorily against the president while in uniform, that as citizens, military personnel have every right to NOT support the president although they are REQUIRED to OBEY the president.
I was honorably discharged form the Marine Corps in March of 1976 and to this day I stand on the claim that I, as a citizen of the Untied States of America and a United States Marine, have EVERY RIGHT to openly voice my non support/opposition to the sitting president and his policies/agenda.
Come to think of it, since this person himself is a Vietnam Veteran and obviously an ardent Obama supporter, I'm extremely curious to hear his stand of President Bush and whether or not he would hold himself to the same standard he's attempting to hold me to?
.
"I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"
.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
So, to obey, or not to obey? It depends on the order. Military members disobey orders at their own risk. They als...
.
"I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"
.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
So, to obey, or not to obey? It depends on the order. Military members disobey orders at their own risk. They also obey orders at their own risk. An order to commit a crime is unlawful. An order to perform a military duty, no matter how dangerous is lawful, as long as it doesn't involve commission of a crime. So, when in doubt, proceed with caution.
Liking his agenda is not a prerequisite.
They, beside being a member of our fighting forces, are INDIVIDUALS thereby entitled to their own path in life which includes political choices.
In my mind, they are STILL and REMAIN the BEST military on this planet and I respect them, pray for them, and love their spirit and courage.
Politicians are a dime a dozen, our Defenders of Freedom PRICELESS!
You're not supposed to, actually. Now, having a conversation between you and another service member is one thing, putting it in a medium where it exists for others to see it (Facebook, Twitter, blog, etc) is different.
"HHHMMMM court martialed for disparaging Obama and use as a defence that we do not currently have a president due to Obama not being qualified for the office."
Who are you talking about? The guy who refused to deploy because Obama "didn't have the right" to deploy him?
The oath of enlistment requires that enlisted personnel obey the orders of the President, but that's vastly different than 'supporting him'. Neither does anything in the UCMJ require such support. If anyone in America has earned the right to speak out against policies they don't believe in, it's those who have served in harm's way for the benefit of the nation.
Personally, I believe the last Democrat to occupy the oval office that deserved any respect was Lyndon Johnson.
http://usmilitary.about.com/o...
I admired LBJ also for his policies on helping the poor. But I thought most Viet Nam era vets wrongfully blamed for Viet Nam
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
Some of us truly believed. I still do.
Did you serve in the Corps?
Now, having said that, every Marine is different. Some take the rightward road, some the left and some distance themselves from politics entirely. I may not agree with Drummer, but he has every right to his own opinion, just as any civilian does.
I think his anger, nastiness and willful ignorance about the President are ridiculous, but I don't consider him an embarrassment to the Corps. After all, the Corps is fundamentally an organization that gives everything it has to protect the rights of Americans, including the right to free speech. We (Marines) even give up our rights to do so for while.
So let's disagree with him without slandering how he reflects on his beloved Marine Corps, ok?
To me, he would only be disrespecting or embarrassing the Corps if he acted on his ridiculous beliefs to, say, try to assassinate the President. Particularly if he had written some manifesto professing that he did it because the Marines had taught him to think that way.
If we take your position to its logical conclusion, it would mean that you believe all Marines must, necessarily, have the same opinions and express them identically or else they are embassing the Corps. I reject that.
I may think Drummer's beliefs are ridiculous and that he is making a fool of himself... but I don't think he's making mockery of the Marine Corps.
Of course they do. They just don't talk about them if they value their honor.
" But I have to agree that when they retire from the Corps, then they could be as ridiculous and boneheaded as they want."
And that's what Drummer is doing.