Question US
Do many who may appear to be on the right side of moral issues have a spirit of intolerance that is potentially more dangerous than the moral issues they so vehemently oppose?
jamielt October 31, 2008 16:15:12
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Yes
Absolutely... The best example is how the Republican party has sold out to the religious right. How single issue voters have let them throw all principles of decency out the window and have allowed them to run roughshod over principles that have historically been Republican standards.View thread
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Because some imagine harm is intended, they will commit harm, as a means of preventing harm to themselves, where no harm was even imagined. Crazy huh?
Yeah, crazy, i.e. Iraq.
) ;
We were not there, we do not know for sure, I know I don't. Regardless, people were being tortured, gassed, raped and generally shot in the head under Hussein and we are there now. I say finish the job and get out. If we had finished it in 1991 we peobably would not be there today.
Things are not always so simple as many would have us believe. My post was talking about Christians and non Christians one on one.
The Bible teaches that many will cast out devils in the name of Jesus, will do missionary work and many fine and noble things, but still He does not accept them as being a Christian.
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me , ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22 (emphasis added).
There are no shortcuts, no alternatives, and no bypasses on the road to Heaven. ALL Christians have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16) seeing the world and all of life as Christ does. Christians are of like minds, even of one mind the Bible teaches (Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 13:11; Philippians 1:27; Philippians 2:2; 1 Peter 3:8).
This is not my "interpretation," it is the Word of God, but many conjure up excuses to ...
The Bible teaches that many will cast out devils in the name of Jesus, will do missionary work and many fine and noble things, but still He does not accept them as being a Christian.
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22 (emphasis added).
There are no shortcuts, no alternatives, and no bypasses on the road to Heaven. ALL Christians have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16) seeing the world and all of life as Christ does. Christians are of like minds, even of one mind the Bible teaches (Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 13:11; Philippians 1:27; Philippians 2:2; 1 Peter 3:8).
This is not my "interpretation," it is the Word of God, but many conjure up excuses to dismiss the facts, but it does not relieve them of the responsibility before God.
The Bible leaves no room for "liberal Christians." It is an oxymoron. The two words are incompatible. If you don't believe me study the Bible and see for yourself. Those who think they are "liberal" Christians are following another "Jesus" than the one found in the Bible. This other "Jesus" and his doctrine are the result of the doctrines of devils (1 Corinthians 11:3-4).
Those who say they are liberal Christians want the reward without paying the dues so to speak. They don't want to be known as "different" or as a "Bible thumper" or any of the other taspects they see as "negative" and that the world attaches to the true and devout Christian. They are Christian in name only, and their faith does them no good what so ever. There are no liberal Christians, only those who are trying to get into Heaven on their own terms. It is folly my friend. Pure folly.
"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 10:33
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
Oh, and Jim, your arguments merely serve to prove out the assertion made in this question originally!
If you really believe that "to the Constitutions' framers, politics and religion were separate!" then you really don't know much about History or our founding fathers. Unless you know it and just simply choose to ignore it, in which case you would be truly foolish (as thought you weren't already).
Roadrat wrote:
"Oh, and Jim, your arguments merely serve to prove out the assertion made in this question originally!"
Excuse me, but is that supposed to mean something to me? Am I supposed to care? I merely consider the source Roadrat and dismiss. That easy, that fast. I find you to be an amazingly ignorant (I think willfully so) and immature person to be the age you state in your profile. I just hope folks know SOME of us in that age range use some common sense.
And you still show a "spirit of intolerance." Just because one does not strictly adhere to the teachings of your bible, and it's many contradictions does not make one either ignorant, or immature.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Roadrat, you wrote: "And you still show a "spirit of intolerance."" Well thank you, I'm glad it shows because I certainly would not want anyone to think that I accept any and everything that comes down the pipe, because I don't. Neither did/does Jesus or any wise person.
Roadrat you wrtoe: "Just because one does not strictly adhere to the teachings of your bible, and it's many contradictions does not make one either ignorant, or immature."
You a...
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Roadrat, you wrote: "And you still show a "spirit of intolerance."" Well thank you, I'm glad it shows because I certainly would not want anyone to think that I accept any and everything that comes down the pipe, because I don't. Neither did/does Jesus or any wise person.
Roadrat you wrtoe: "Just because one does not strictly adhere to the teachings of your bible, and it's many contradictions does not make one either ignorant, or immature."
You are so correct. It is what they don't know that makes them ignorant, and how they behave when confronted with their lack of knowledge that determines maturity.
I see you've quoted Amendment I verbatim, but not explained it. Each of us is able to read the words; but each of us will apply our own filters to it,no?
And, you, my friend, have filtered the bible through your own senses to arrive at the conclusions you have; yet decry anyone whose filters have arrived at a different conclusion.
I'm not willing to debate my maturity here, but I could probably put you in touch with an ex, or two, who would agree wholeheartedly with you!
I had no intention of "explaining" Amendment 1 as it does a fine job of that on it's own. You would only dispute anything I said and I told you I have no intention of going into a senseless debate on the subject.
Roadrat, I have repeatedly stated that I do not filter the Bible through anything, but that everything is filtered through the Bible. You insist on calling me a liar saying I "have filtered the bible through your own senses to arrive at the conclusions you have..." Which is blatantly untrue and goes against everything I am or represent. How would you know anyway? You have shown your understanding of Spiritual matters is ZERO. That leaves you in the dark and no points to argue on, (but that hasn't slowed you down). Anyone who is filtering the Bible through their own senses or opinions is violating the Word of God and not worthy to handle His Word.
Actually, you don't seem to care too much about facts, you just want to bash Jim it looks like to me. I got my helmet on so go ahead.
Don't worry about a helmet, Jim, my higher power doesn't condone violence.
The difference is the Holy Spirit of God. First of all we need to make clear that all who say they are a Christian are not. According to what Jesus tells us MOST are not truly Christian when examined in light of the Bible definition. If one is not a Christian they do not have the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in them, teaching them, and guiding them. They are in essence like any other non-believer in this respect except that they wear a facade of Christianity.
Those who are truly a Christian have the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit of Christ living in them. This is the "ghost" that Jesus sent back to His followers after He was crucified. he promised that this Holy Spirit would guide us into the truth with understanding and power to live a life pleasing to God separate from the things the rest of the world accepts and indulges in.
Two born again, Spirit filled Christians recognize the truth when presented to them and they are in agreement. Sometimes one is ...
The difference is the Holy Spirit of God. First of all we need to make clear that all who say they are a Christian are not. According to what Jesus tells us MOST are not truly Christian when examined in light of the Bible definition. If one is not a Christian they do not have the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in them, teaching them, and guiding them. They are in essence like any other non-believer in this respect except that they wear a facade of Christianity.
Those who are truly a Christian have the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit of Christ living in them. This is the "ghost" that Jesus sent back to His followers after He was crucified. he promised that this Holy Spirit would guide us into the truth with understanding and power to live a life pleasing to God separate from the things the rest of the world accepts and indulges in.
Two born again, Spirit filled Christians recognize the truth when presented to them and they are in agreement. Sometimes one is more mature in their faith, their walk than another and one may not understand all of something, but they know that basically it is right or wrong. With time and prayer they move into full agreement as to what God is saying in His Word the Bible.
You are absolutely correct when you say "man is inherently unable to do anything but filter anything he encounters through previous experience"
To that statement I would add "the NATURAL man." However your statement does not apply to the born again, Holy Spirit filled, man or woman.
Roadrat you wrote: "Anything I say to you, by your own admission will be filtered by you to see whether or not it fits in with the teachings of the bible. Correct?"
Not exactly correct, no. It is filtered by the Bible, not me. I use the Bible, but I don't use my opinion or my experience to determine the truth of what the Bible teaches.
Roadrat you wrote: "I might arrive at a different conclusion (in this case I think I'd be applying the "love thy neighbor" & "judge not lest ye be judged" portions of the bible; if one sticks strictly to the new testament, I'm not sure which passage one would apply here, help me out, would ya? thanks)!"
Not to mock you or anything, but to illustrate what I am saying about the teaching of the Holy Spirit. Your choice of verses is an example of "the natural man" trying to use Gods Word to justify what they want to be justified or allowed.
The natural man does not understand Gods definition of love, nor can they until they are born again. It is not elitism, or smugness or anything other than a simple and real fact. I know, I have been there. In short, "love they neighbor" is not appropriate for defending gay marriage. To love thy neighbor is to do good to them as the good Samaritan did in Luke 10. To love thy neighbor as thyself is to protect them when appropriate, to feed, clothe, and shelter them when needed. To speak truth to them, to not cheat or lie, to not gossip, or spread rumors, to make no distinction in race, or social standing, but to be a neighbor to them regardless of these things no matter whether they live close by or far away. They are a human being made in the image of God and as such they are neighbors. This is Christian love of neighbor as self the best way I know to describe it in a relatively few words.
Loving thy neighbor does not mean to step aside while they do as they please, or allow them to go against what God has decreed. It is not love to allow someone to endanger their life or their soul.
As for your selection of the "judge not lest ye be judged" verse in Matthew chapter seven verse one, that also does not apply and has no bearing here. One needs to read at least the first six verses to get the context and understand the meaning of "judge not." It is NOT telling Christians to refrain from judging, it is talking about hypocritical judging. Clean up your own life, get the sin out and get the Word in, and THEN you can see to help your brother by judging righteously, using the Word of God, not your own whims or prejudices.
There are no verses to defend gay marriage. The Bible defines marriage as a holy union between a man and a woman. It defines sexual relationships between members of the same sex as perversion of what God created and intended. He considers it an abomination (extreme disgust and hatred). Many have desires and feelings they did not ask for, but the Bible promises power and ability to abstain from fulfilling the desires of the flesh. Some people crave sex with the opposite sex, some with the same sex, some people crave gambling, some crave food. All of these cravings and others are a perversion of what is normal and if we are to be pleasing to the Lord we will abstain and ask His help as a follower of His.
There is no higher power but God.
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."
Romans 13:1
To that statement I would add "the NATURAL man.""
I want to amend this statement somewhat. The Bible teaches that the devil greatly influences what the unsaved person thinks and believes. Even though one thinks their thoughts are their own, this is SELDOM true.
Just another eerie thought I've had; perhaps I misunderstood you, if so, please set me straight. If I sat down 2 'born again Christians' (I hope that's the right term, I don't mean to offend) in separate rooms, simultaneously, and asked them to tell me what a particular Biblical verse meant: they'd each come up with exactly the same answer?
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If every christian was republican, they would win every time. It doesn't work like that.
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Here's a couple of seriously disturbing clips from the film:
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True christians understand that while the sin is bad the sinner is ultimately redeemable and should be loved no matter what.
My dad is a baptist zealot and his wife is worse and both of them are angry, hateful and mean. It makes me sad that they cannot grasp the truth of scripture and the actual love of Christ.
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If John McCain of 2000 was running, he might have had a shot at my vote. He's a total sellout. It was just over a year ago when his position on offshore drilling was 'over my dead body'.
That wasn't a flip-flop, it was, as the WSJ says, "A sex change operation".