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Do Gays Soldiers Hurt the Military?

News 2010/12/01 19:00:00
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Sen. John McCain, the rainbow-colored ball is in your court.

McCain, a decorated Vietnam war veteran, has lately been staunchly opposed to repealing "don't ask, don't tell," which bans gay and lesbians from openly serving in the military. Many Republicans, and some Democrats, have said it would hurt military effectiveness, while others objected on moral grounds.

But a Pentagon study indicates that a strong majority of soldiers couldn't care less if a fellow soldier is gay or lesbian. As one Special Forces operative said, according to CNN, "We have a gay guy [in the unit]. He's big, he's mean, and he kills lots of bad guys. No one cared that he was gay."

The Democrats have to now decide if they want to get mired in a debate over a repeal. With only a few short weeks, it might be difficult to get on the agenda. And with Republicans taking over the House in January, now might be the last opportunity in a while to take the issue up.

Read More: http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/30/military.ga...

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  • Aubbles the Dorkocent one o... 2010/12/02 00:52:28
    No, they don't hurt the military
    Aubbles the Dorkocent one of PHAET
    +28
    If you don't want them serving in the military. I suggest you get off of your ass and defend our country.

    I'm thankful for ALL of the soldiers. The only thing that should matter is they're here to protect us.

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  • Jack the Dude 2012/06/05 22:28:23
  • Jade Renae 2011/02/24 10:46:07
    No, they don't hurt the military
    Jade Renae
    Not at all. They defend us, and people judge them just because of there sexuality? WRONG. They are protecting us and our families, we should be grateful.
  • Diverbelo 2010/12/22 04:50:53
    No, they don't hurt the military
    Diverbelo
  • Crank_It_Up 2010/12/05 20:24:49
    No, they don't hurt the military
    Crank_It_Up
    +1
    I doubt of all the women raped in the military are raped by gay soldiers...
    "We have an epidemic here," she said. "Women serving in the U.S. military today are more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire in Iraq."
    http://articles.cnn.com/2008-...
  • Oceana_Mordecai 2010/12/05 08:16:26
    Undecided
    Oceana_Mordecai
    Technically speaking, war is war it doesn't matter who is fighting it whether it be male, female, lesbian, bi-sexual or gays. People are people regardless of their orientation.
  • Armygeek 2010/12/04 04:32:43 (edited)
    Yes
    Armygeek
    +2
    I can only guess getting it in the rear hurts, so yes it hurts the Military. How many of you who said no actually serve or have served in the Military?
  • Chiron Armygeek 2010/12/04 17:49:43
    Chiron
    I'll go with the answer given by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who served in the military as a Lieutenant in the Air Force.

    No.
  • Lily Armygeek 2011/05/21 01:32:09
    Lily
    Good god they rape each other, read it in whistle blower :D
  • LuridLolita 2010/12/03 18:48:36
    No, they don't hurt the military
    LuridLolita
    +1
    I would think that since the government hates the gays so much they would be happy to have them die for their country.
  • chamchamgal 2010/12/03 07:23:11
    No, they don't hurt the military
    chamchamgal
    +2
    A person is still a person regardless of there religious believes, sexuality, or anything else.

    We all need to be treated as equals.
  • mtncolumbine 2010/12/03 05:04:02
    No, they don't hurt the military
    mtncolumbine
    +1
    But they need to keep their personal pretenses to themselves - they need to respect that not everyone wants to be thier (mate)!
  • Chiron mtncolu... 2010/12/04 17:51:14
    Chiron
    +3
    And straight soldiers need to keep their sexual desires to themselves -- they need to respect that not all females in the military (or anywhere else for that matter) want to be their next sexual conquest.
  • wtw 2010/12/03 04:22:04
    Undecided
    wtw
    +2
    I am against open gay-ness in the military but now that it is passed they have no choice but to get along and make it work. I would encourage gay's to keep it to themselves as much as possible and not push some agenda on others. I would encourage the others to perform the duty for which you enlisted and work as a team to be all you can be. Hate is never an answer to anything.
  • Chiron wtw 2010/12/04 07:08:03 (edited)
    Chiron
    +1
    Why do you think that a gay soldier would "push some agenda" on others?

    I don't "push" any agenda on anyone, though I will work for full equality for gays in this country (supposedly the land of equality for all -- so why do dozens of other nations treat their gay citizens with equality but we don't?).

    As for "pushing agendas" I've practically had to stop going to the post office. Nearly every time, while I'm waiting in line, someone tries to push their religious agenda on me. I've never seen a gay person do that.
  • wtw Chiron 2010/12/04 17:49:51 (edited)
    wtw
    +2
    A lot of the gays I have ever encountered--not all, and friends that I used to have were always pushing a sex filled agenda. They were obsessed with sex and many hit on me.
    Gay's have just as much equality as any individual in society. There is only one area that needs addessed and it isn't just about gays--it is eqaulity for those that desire to have a person designated as there partner in life--two men, two women, a man and a woman, a mother and a son--whatever you call it is fine but it isn't marraige.
    You do make a point about someone pushing a religious agenda but it is also different in that it involves a person's beleifs and not his or her person.
    I was fine with people who are gay, even though I beleive it is wrong, while in the Marines as long as they never pushed it on me. We all got along. Just like any other subject you need to be cautious who you discuss this with.
  • Chiron wtw 2010/12/04 18:03:04
    Chiron
    +1
    You're hanging with a wrong, and quite small, crowd.

    Gays are no more obsessed with sex than straights. Those who say otherwise are pushing their anti-gay agenda.

    Gays have just as much equality as any individual in society, you say?

    The Government Accountability Office disagrees with you. It has tallied 1,138 rights straights have that gays do not.

    One example: straight couples can file their taxes as "married, filing jointly" and access the "marriage penalty relief" clause in the tax code. Thus, a straight couple will pay less in taxes thatn a gay couple with identical income. We can fix this by raising the taxes on straights.

    Two gay guys can and do enter into marriage -- in 5 states plus the District of Columbia here in the US and in several nations around the world (The Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, for example). Marriage is first and foremost a legal construct. You can add religious overtones if you like, but that's completely optional.

    The points I try to make here are that being gay is completely normal, that you probably deal with several gay people during the course of the day without realizing it, that the vast majority of gays are productive members of society, and that gays are completely deserving of equal rights -- as guaranteed under the 14th Amendm...

    You're hanging with a wrong, and quite small, crowd.

    Gays are no more obsessed with sex than straights. Those who say otherwise are pushing their anti-gay agenda.

    Gays have just as much equality as any individual in society, you say?

    The Government Accountability Office disagrees with you. It has tallied 1,138 rights straights have that gays do not.

    One example: straight couples can file their taxes as "married, filing jointly" and access the "marriage penalty relief" clause in the tax code. Thus, a straight couple will pay less in taxes thatn a gay couple with identical income. We can fix this by raising the taxes on straights.

    Two gay guys can and do enter into marriage -- in 5 states plus the District of Columbia here in the US and in several nations around the world (The Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, for example). Marriage is first and foremost a legal construct. You can add religious overtones if you like, but that's completely optional.

    The points I try to make here are that being gay is completely normal, that you probably deal with several gay people during the course of the day without realizing it, that the vast majority of gays are productive members of society, and that gays are completely deserving of equal rights -- as guaranteed under the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

    Some people may not like gays. Some people may not like Republicans. Some people may not like Democrats. Doesn't matter, really. All are to be accepted equally and all are to have equal rights in this country -- which was founded upon the principle of equal rights for all.
    (more)
  • BreBre<3 2010/12/03 02:52:27
    No, they don't hurt the military
    BreBre<3
    +2
    Gays and straights can work together. On the battlefield no one is going to worry about who's gay and who's straight. The military is a team, thus always work as a team under any circumstance. Even..homophobes shouldn't have a problem. For example homophobe guy goes down with a bullet to the leg, and sees his fellow soldier who knows is gay coming to help him, he's not going to say "Don't touch me your gay!" He's going to say "Help me, please!" I take college European history, and back then one of the strongest armies were of gay men. The only reason why anyone would think gays would "hurt" the military is America's "image." But what really is America's image today?
  • wtw BreBre<3 2010/12/04 17:57:30
    wtw
    As a former military man I will atest to the fact that when the sh_t hit the fan you didn't care. I will also say that morale is not about just when the sh_t hits the fan. Most often you are sitting, waiting, in between and so forth--these are the times that get a little dicey. You will never get a group of guys together(can't speak for woman) that some will not get quite angry, offended or completely disagree with Gayness. Morale in battle has a lot to do with morale in the "off times". A cohesive force works best when in harmony in those "off" times. Distractions are indeed to be minimized. I don't agree with open gayness and I am not willing to say what will happen to morale--I don't know. I do know that it is an unknown. I also know that it could be a detriment. I may be wrong and time will tell.
  • Dave POTL-PWCM-JLA 2010/12/03 02:17:18
    Undecided
    Dave POTL-PWCM-JLA
    +1
    I'm tired of this debate.
  • Chiron Dave PO... 2010/12/04 07:09:18
    Chiron
    We are, too. So let's do what most nations have already done -- allow gays to serve openly, and then this debate will go away (and all of the fuss will, with the passage of time, look completely absurd).
  • Michaela 2010/12/02 23:48:59
    No, they don't hurt the military
    Michaela
    +1
    I may not support gays but come on! They are serving our country, fighting for us, I pride ALL soldiers, so yep.
  • Keen Tojones 2010/12/02 21:25:39
    Undecided
    Keen Tojones
    I dunno. They've been a part of the military an awfully long time.
  • Chiron Keen To... 2010/12/04 07:11:04
    Chiron
    +2
    You're right.

    There were gay soldiers in General Washington's Continental Army. A gay officer was killed in the battle for our country's freedom -- and now, 234 years later, we're debating about whether gays should serve in our country's military? How ridiculous.
  • Sew 2010/12/02 21:12:01
    No, they don't hurt the military
    Sew
    +2
    What hurts our military is the hyprocracy of saying it defends freedom yet denies rights to homosexuals. Whoever thinks a gay is somehow less deserving of freedom or rights, or possesses less valor then a hetrosexual is a insecure bigot for whom I have no respect. Frankly I don't care what your preference is if you're pulling my half-dead ass from a burning vehicle.
  • Armygeek Sew 2010/12/04 04:43:30
    Armygeek
    +2
    I just don't understand why sex has to come up in a conversation in the work place. So if they are openly gay and they make a pass at a straight man can that man press charges of sexual harassment? It's bad enough we have straight men in the military going after every girl in uniform now it will be an open market across the board. What next are we going to fight for woman's rights to fight along side men in the Infantry? Everyone has the right to be what they want, but keep it to yourself and that goes to all the straight people too. What happens behind closed doors needs to stay there.
  • Sew Armygeek 2010/12/04 05:03:46
    Sew
    +1
    True but according to DADT even casual mention of your orientation can be grounds for removal of service if it proves true. That means mentioning your significant other. Lets put it on the other foot. You can now be kick from service if you mention you have a girlfriend. Tell me do you think thats fair? Do you think that is American? Everyone says the same thing: They'll start sexually harrassing other men(or women). Just like every straight soldier doesn't hit on every female he sees not every gay is going to hit on every male he sees. There seems to be this misguide conception that gays are less able to control themselves or are extremely promiscuous. And yes a man could press sexual harrassment charges if a gay made a pass at him, EO is EO.
  • Chiron Sew 2010/12/04 07:20:21
    Chiron
    Well said.

    All that is being sought here is equal treatment. A gay soldier should be able to mention his or her same sex partner in the same manner as a straight soldier is permitted to do.

    It's interesting that some complain about how military readiness will be hurt by allowing gays to serve openly -- yet they are silent on the harm caused to the military via the discharge of some 14,000 soliders because of DADT -- including many who had vital skills needed by the military.

    And one of the soldiers drummed out of the military was Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach -- who flew some 90 combat missions, destroying Taliban and Al Qaeda targets in support of Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom. His awards includr the Meritorious Service Medal, nine Air Medals -- including one for Heroism -- the Aerial Achievement Medal, five Air Force Commendation Medals and the Navy Commendation Medal.

    A true American hero -- but the Air Force thought it was far more important to discharge this soldier because he was gay.

    If they can do without him, they have no right to complain about any supposed "harm" that would be caused by allowing gays to serve openly. Look at the harm DADT did in just this one instance.
  • Chiron Armygeek 2010/12/04 07:14:45
    Chiron
    If an openly gay solider sexually harrasses a straight soldier, he can be and probably will be discharged -- just as a straight soldier harrassing a female member of the armed forces would be.

    Note that the Navy, by decree, is putting women on board submarines. If they can make that work, they can make having gays on board work.
  • Chiron Sew 2010/12/04 07:12:28
    Chiron
    That's right.

    What also hurts our military is forcing gays to lie about who they are. Well, so much for that "honor" and "integrity" thing the military brags about -- thereby underscoring that oxymoron about "military intelligence".
  • M Carrill 2010/12/02 20:46:55
    Yes
    M Carrill
    +1
    It is a stupid idea to advertise gays in the military, especially if the US is in Muslim countries, unless of course, we wish to adopt the attitude of the Israeli military.
  • Chiron M Carrill 2010/12/04 07:21:39
    Chiron
    We've had gay soldiers in Muslim countries. See my note above about Lt. Col Victor Fehrenbach.
  • John 2010/12/02 20:24:20
    No, they don't hurt the military
    John
    +4
    I'm 60 and I can speak from personal experience. I was drafted in 1971 and served in Vietnam. I knew I was serving with a homosexual. He was as professional as I was. I had no problem whatsoever. In the field you don't think about it, you watch each other's back. You trust the guy who's on point. The guys who are against it should get over it. Additionally, you don't ask whether you want to serve along someone who's gay. You give them a direct order and you better obey. You don't ask a soldier if he wants to do push ups, You yell at him and tell him to give me 50. I understand the fearmongers are in full force saying that a lot of marines would quit if gays are allowed to serve. I would like to see how the hell that's going to happen. This is not an office job where you can walk into a boss' office and say I quit. You'll be facing a court martial for desertion. The military is not a democracy, it's a dictatorship.
  • Armygeek John 2010/12/04 04:52:05
    Armygeek
    +2
    I knew I worked with some gays and I wasn't disturbed by it. I do think its important that all people should keep there sex life quite. It's not professional as you said. Now, the only issue I see is sex in the barracks, it happens we know it. What if you are roommates with a homosexual and you walked in on him and another dude going at it? Is it right? And same goes for straight people having sex and the homosexual walks in, is that right? So what do we do? Are we now going to give special treatment to those who are gay and give them different rooms? Times have changed sense the 60's, homosexuality has taken on a whole new look. Straight people have the right to be offended, just as gays do. bottom line, Sex should not be brought up at work, if it does by any party, they should be court martial!
  • Chiron Armygeek 2010/12/04 07:24:11
    Chiron
    +1
    What about a straight soldier walking in and finding his straight roommate going at it with his girlfriend?

    Isn't there a general rule about sexual activity -- of any kind -- in the barracks?
  • John Armygeek 2010/12/06 15:24:43
    John
    Let me expand a bit on my comment. While I believe that gays should be allowed to serve in the military, If a guy came on to me, I would pounce on him. I also cringe when I see 2 guys kissing as I have seen on TV here and there. They can do their thing in private. I also believe, that there should be no special accomodations provided for gays. If they're caught making out, not only should they be court martialed, but receive a bad conduct discharge. I've seen it happen with straight sex relationships.
  • william John 2010/12/07 17:44:33
    william
    would it have been o.k. for a gay to save your life in viet nam ?
  • John william 2010/12/07 21:37:42
    John
    I already said in my initial comment that I didn't care about having served side by side with someone gay. Yes, I would be forever greatful if a gay saved my lie. I in turn would do everything I could to save a gay's life. When you're in the field, you don't give it a second thought. In the course of a fire fight, we're all brothers. I'm just saying that I don't like to see gays making out in public, but I'm not against it. I just don't like to look at it.
  • william John 2010/12/11 00:00:27
    william
    o,k. brother i was just asking.i was with the 205th assault hel.co. 1969 &70
    phu loi viet nam.
  • DeafGary 2010/12/02 20:03:01
    No, they don't hurt the military
    DeafGary
    +4
    Personally, as long as they keep their sexual preference to themselves, I don't have a problem, with their being in the military.
    Having said that, I think it should also be required that unmarried men and women, in the military remain celibate for the sake of the job.

    Why should one sexsin be accepted while another is denied?
  • ELI 2010/12/02 20:00:38
    No, they don't hurt the military
    ELI
    +1
    People are people no matter sexual orientation. If one decides to serve the country, that in itself deserves recognition for patriotism and bravery. No exceptions.
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