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Deconstructing Conservative Myths About Socialism, Capitalism, and Who The ‘Job Creators’ Are

ProudProgressive 2012/07/16 12:28:40

By now, the growing disconnect between the Right Wing and objective reality has reached Grand Canyon proportions, and there seems to be no indication that this is going to change. As always, the Right Wing message consists largely of deliberate disinformation, coupled with completely ignoring even non-controversial facts.

One of the most popular bits of doublespeak still remains that ridiculous idea that the richest Americans are "job creators". The Bush tax giveaways put another two TRILLION dollars in the pockets of these "job creators", and the result was an administration with a net loss of jobs and a rising unemployment rate that didn't stop until it reached 10.1%.

President Obama, on the other hand, has created four and a half million new American jobs, brought the unemployment rate down two full points, and turned a loss of 750,000 jobs a month into two and a half years of slow but steady growth. And all of this with the Republicans in Congress blocking numerous job creation bills that would have our unemployment rate down to 6% or less right now if just ONCE they could have managed to put the needs of the American people ahead of partisan objectives.

One can only hope that there are enough Americans who still know the difference between fact and fiction to prevent our nation from returning to the failed policies that caused our Great Recession in the first place.

Article excerpt follows:

Deconstructing Conservative Myths About Socialism, Capitalism, and Who The ‘Job Creators’ Are
July 15, 2012
By Silence Dogood

Conservatives have taken to a new spin on truth, by refashioning definitions of words and terms in order to provoke new connotations. Socialism is now defined as a government take over, Capitalism is now defined as patriotic, and the wealthy are now defined as job creators. But simply redefining these words will not change their true meaning, it is only myth making.

Socialism does not mean the abolition of a free market society, nor does Socialism call for a government takeover of all industry; that is Communism. Socialists acknowledge the limitation of a free market and believes that some industries should not be run for profit. Police protection, fire protection, prisons, education, health care, parks, electricity, water supplies, waste and sewage removal, and roadways are just a few examples of industries which should not be run for profit. The reasoning behind this belief is when these industries are operating for profit, not only will prices rise, but corresponding services would then be reserved only for those who can afford them. Or more succinctly, no one person should be able to profit over running services, in which everyone benefits from. One excellent example of Socialism in action is demonstrated in our banking industry. While most banks operate for the profits of their CEOs, credit unions are owned and operated by the people. The profits which are not imparted upon CEOs are reflected back to the customer in higher interest rates for investments and lower interest rates for loans. It may be important to point out that credit unions did not run the same risks as banks when our financial bubble burst, and thus did not need to request nor receive any TARP bailout money. Nor have the credit unions contributed to the faulty foreclosures as our banks have. Another example is found in health care. The free market creates for-profit businesses ranging from medications, medical testing, medical treatments, medical research, to hospitals. None of which have lowered the cost of health care through innovation or through competition. This is because the demand of which is a basic necessity, or in other words is non-negotiable. Like clean water, oil, and electricity, humans cannot survive without such products or services. The demand of which is a constant, therefore they are not subjected to the Keynes supply and demand curve. When prices go up, demand does not lessen beyond a certain threshold. Americans may forgo a pleasure trip to conserve on gasoline consumption, but their demand for gasoline to take them to and from work is non-negotiable. Where the free market brings economic ups and downs which effects everyone, Socialism believes that there is a limit on the protections a free market provides. And quite simply, some things should not be run for profit, especially at the expense of everyone else.

Capitalism is an economic term for the free market system which is structured upon the accumulation of money, where the means of production are privately owned and operates for profit. Capitalism is neither right nor wrong, it is simply an economic term. Nor is Capitalism patriotic! A system which encourages the accumulation of wealth does not salute a flag, nor is it loyal to a native country. This market system crosses state and national borders in order to provide larger profits for business owners. If labor costs are cheaper overseas, then it is capitalism which will drive businesses out of our country. If a company finds it cheaper to produce a dangerous product than it is to produce a safe one, it is capitalism which will produce the most profitable option without consideration of customer safety. Capitalism only seeks profits and will by nature migrate operations towards areas which promotes greater profits. Capitalism has no allegiance to any one country as it operates in a global economy. Again, capitalism has no allegiance with patriotism. Where would a business find themselves most profitable? Would they find a country with extremely lower labor costs to be more profitable for manufacturing than a country with higher labor costs? Would they find a lower taxed area more profitable than an area with high demand for their products? But most of all, wouldn’t it be more patriotic for an American business to spark demand in order to operate, manufacture and sell their goods or services inside America, as opposed to overseas?

The wealthy are not necessarily the job creators. Poor and desperate innovators have sparked many new business ventures despite their lack of wealth. Many small businesses began out of practically nothing, but only an idea executed inside of their garages. The fact of the matter is that neither wealth nor lower taxes create jobs; only demand creates jobs. This little tidbit of truth is lost in translation when the wealthy are deemed as “Job Creators”. This ploy is used to promote additional tax breaks for those who already have enough and while promoting cuts in public services on those who do not have enough. Another tidbit of truth which is diluted in this argument is the inequality of income between the workers and the owners. A manager typically earns 343 times more than an average employee. And while 88% of domestic profits go to corporate bank accounts and CEO bonuses, only 1% of these profits gets applied towards labor. The business owner shoulders no responsibility for producing any product or service. Rather the business owner invested their money (and in most cases time) into a business which is productive. Productivity is a result of the balance between the investors, the managers, and the workers. It is a symbiotic relationship, which many Americans cannot conceive of. For where would any business be without any one of these three elements? Despite conservative talking points, even the lowest of employees is an invaluable asset to a business. In a restaurant, an effective business owner knows that the dishwasher and busboys are just as important to their operation as their managers and customers. If you remove the dishwasher and/or busboys from the equation, the business suffers. Yet an effective manager can be absent from their responsibilities and the operation should not be sacrificed. So which employee should be valued more than the other, the laborer, the manager, or the investor? The answer is neither of the three. For without one, the other two would not have a business operate or a job to tend to. Yet the argument goes that only the wealthy create jobs. Without enough demand, even these jobs won’t last very long.

We should not tax our job creators in a time of economic recession. But we have misidentified exactly who these job creators are. When our recession is being prolonged out of a lack of demand, it is not the business owner who can create jobs. But rather it is the customers who spurn on demand who create jobs. The businesses who pocketed great sums of cash during our economic catastrophe will still be there when we come out of it without the need to create more jobs. But these businesses will find themselves with greater profits when demand picks up again, and that is what will create jobs. So let’s not overburden our true job creators, the customers. In order to spark higher demand, we must effect the largest target market we have at our disposal. It’s not the wealthy who can spark this demand; they only constitute up to 2% of our populace. Rather, we should focus our attention on the other 98% of our populace, our struggling middle class and poor. Henry Ford believed that his product meant nothing unless there were customers who were able to purchase it. In order to ensure his company’s success, he paid his laborers more than other businesses, so they may buy his cars. This enabled his employees to comfortably afford to buy Ford products. This sparked higher demand, which in turn produced higher job growth. Which led to Ford’s success story. Henry Ford did not believe in paying the least amount possible for labor, eliminating the minimal wage, or acquisitioning higher profits. Instead he realized the symbiosis between business and labor and between the business and its customer.


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  • Lady Whitewolf 2012/07/16 14:04:09 (edited)
    Lady Whitewolf
    +5
    "One of the most popular bits of doublespeak still remains that ridiculous idea that the richest Americans are "job creators". The Bush tax giveaways put another two TRILLION dollars in the pockets of these "job creators", and the result was an administration with a net loss of jobs and a rising unemployment rate that didn't stop until it reached 10.1%...."

    And people WANT to continue this? Time to try another strategy.

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  • luvguins 2012/08/04 17:22:27
    luvguins
    This is all true, and giving the rich more tax breaks will not supply jobs as Romney keeps harping. Taking money from the middle class and poorer consumers will kill job growth.
  • jackolantyrn356 2012/07/16 16:22:09
    jackolantyrn356
    "Scuse me, But understandability is necessary to fool the public. This fools no one. It does bore a bit
  • Paul 2012/07/16 14:57:22
    Paul
    +1
    One idea I think you give little emphasis in your arguments are the idea of competition. Competition and profit does motivate and lead to innovation, more than a publicly owned or controlled company, or non-profit.
    Just the same, the idea of "socialism" and what it's all about has gotten way overplayed in recent political debate between conservatives and liberals.

    I just read an article by a conservative journalist, *** about the cost of war in Afghanistan and Iraq somewhere around 3 trillion and counting, and that has more to do with why our government is having a tough time paying for our social programs. These are the same social programs that have been in existence my entire lifetime, what is the big concern of "socialism" at this point in history, and what's the real reason, a stronger war machine so we can dominate the world? Too much money is being spent in other areas of our government, and blame is getting redirected to our safety net programs that more and more people are needing. The idea of "socialism" gets way over played for conservatives making their argument why our government spends too much using government assistance programs as the scapegoat.

    ***
    http://personalliberty.com/20...

    There are two sides to the issue, unions and more government regulation...

    One idea I think you give little emphasis in your arguments are the idea of competition. Competition and profit does motivate and lead to innovation, more than a publicly owned or controlled company, or non-profit.
    Just the same, the idea of "socialism" and what it's all about has gotten way overplayed in recent political debate between conservatives and liberals.

    I just read an article by a conservative journalist, *** about the cost of war in Afghanistan and Iraq somewhere around 3 trillion and counting, and that has more to do with why our government is having a tough time paying for our social programs. These are the same social programs that have been in existence my entire lifetime, what is the big concern of "socialism" at this point in history, and what's the real reason, a stronger war machine so we can dominate the world? Too much money is being spent in other areas of our government, and blame is getting redirected to our safety net programs that more and more people are needing. The idea of "socialism" gets way over played for conservatives making their argument why our government spends too much using government assistance programs as the scapegoat.

    ***
    http://personalliberty.com/20...

    There are two sides to the issue, unions and more government regulation and requirements, healthcare being one of requirement that will make it that much more difficult to start a small construction company or store owner with a small number of employees. It is that much harder for someone to start up and run their own business than it has been in the past, I believe that to be fact. But the ideas of "socialism" getting propagandized the way it has been lately has gotten way overplayed.

    PP has done a good job pointing out fault in much of the argument made by conservatives using the word "socialism" to demonize the other party. Sad thing about it, too many people buy the deception.
    (more)
  • Mike 2012/07/16 14:09:56
    Mike
    +1
    I would not get too worked up over the “Conservative Myths About Socialism, Capitalism,” and all those other isms and the present popular hype between rich and poor.
    A good book out there sums it all up: “Scientific Proof of Our Unalienable Rights, a Road to Utopia.” In this book, Takac pointed out our Unalienable Rights is the culmination of a genetic program or algorithm having a self-adjusting or fine-tuning in the optimization of “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.” Throughout all life, there appears to be a natural tendency during the struggle of survival, to support, prolong and improve Life. While at the same time, there is an inherent drive to increase Freedom, with an ongoing continuous effort in the reduction and optimization of the energy expended during the Pursuit of an objective, while increasing and exploring new levels of Happiness, fulfillment, pleasure, and anything to do with positive feedback. For us humans, everyone has, in one form or another, a desire for more money. More money translates to more freedom in a civil society. This drive for more money is a Natural event because it is related to freedom and the optimization of pursuit. With that said, it is not rich versus the poor; it is the moral standing of society, which is the real issue. F...

    I would not get too worked up over the “Conservative Myths About Socialism, Capitalism,” and all those other isms and the present popular hype between rich and poor.
    A good book out there sums it all up: “Scientific Proof of Our Unalienable Rights, a Road to Utopia.” In this book, Takac pointed out our Unalienable Rights is the culmination of a genetic program or algorithm having a self-adjusting or fine-tuning in the optimization of “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.” Throughout all life, there appears to be a natural tendency during the struggle of survival, to support, prolong and improve Life. While at the same time, there is an inherent drive to increase Freedom, with an ongoing continuous effort in the reduction and optimization of the energy expended during the Pursuit of an objective, while increasing and exploring new levels of Happiness, fulfillment, pleasure, and anything to do with positive feedback. For us humans, everyone has, in one form or another, a desire for more money. More money translates to more freedom in a civil society. This drive for more money is a Natural event because it is related to freedom and the optimization of pursuit. With that said, it is not rich versus the poor; it is the moral standing of society, which is the real issue. For example, compare what George Soros and Bill Gates are doing with their money. Besides, you can’t get a job from a poor person; it is the poor entrepreneur who becomes rich building corporations to make trains, planes, automobiles, computers, iPhones, etc, for they do not grow on trees. The rich do not store their money in a mattress; they invest and put their money in banks where the poor entrepreneur could get loans to build corporations to create jobs. Remember, the real issue is morality and this is true for both the rich and poor and everyone in between.

    Government and industry are two separate complementary entities. Government is there to protect Unalienable Rights and support industry for it is only through industry that generates wealth within any civil society. Government cannot generate wealth it is there only to protect the Unalienable Rights of both industry and the individual through social objectives of seeking Happiness maintaining a balance between individuals and their social institutions. Institutions from groups, to corporations, to the state, striking a balance with the individual’s Unalienable Rights, in such a way, where their Happiness are both served and neither sacrificed to the other, while managing society’s wealth and progress in compliance with the principles of the Laws of Nature. It is from the Laws of Nature where our Unalienable Rights originated for all life and social systems. The Laws of Economics is, and only is, an outgrowth from our Unalienable Rights where freedom is the key in a laissez-faire free market system. Just compare any social system to the first and only government (USA) design on the foundation of our Unalienable Rights and within a short 200 years have changed the world like no other society in recorded history, by the fruits of technology, food production, and medicine, the stables of human existence throughout the world today. A compelling example when these Rights are free to operate within the awesome machinery of Nature.
    (more)
  • Lady Whitewolf 2012/07/16 14:04:09 (edited)
    Lady Whitewolf
    +5
    "One of the most popular bits of doublespeak still remains that ridiculous idea that the richest Americans are "job creators". The Bush tax giveaways put another two TRILLION dollars in the pockets of these "job creators", and the result was an administration with a net loss of jobs and a rising unemployment rate that didn't stop until it reached 10.1%...."

    And people WANT to continue this? Time to try another strategy.
  • boltfox20 2012/07/16 13:47:21
    boltfox20
    +2
    Thank you for posting an article that puts into words the exact thing I've been trying to say to these idiots for ages now.
  • Lady Wh... boltfox20 2012/07/16 14:04:52
    Lady Whitewolf
    +1
    Same here, Hunny....
  • Maynard 2012/07/16 12:40:22
    Maynard
    +3
    Let's take PROUD to task.

    First, TAX THE RICH TILL THERE AINT NO RICH NO MORE (Ten Years After, great band) We have heard this one over and over, TOO EASY.

    How do you prevent the rich from LEAVING THE GREAT USA? A fence, like the BERLIN WALL.

    What about the Rich who just want to RETIRE WITH THEIR MONEY, you know, just CLOSE SHOP, screw it.

    HOW DOES PROUD PREVENT THEM FROM CLOSING SHOP? Take the Business, you know, NATIONALIZE the Business, just like the old USSR and so on.



    Does any Great American see SOCIALISM ON THE RISE? I could go on but WHY
  • Lady Wh... Maynard 2012/07/16 14:06:08
    Lady Whitewolf
    +3
    "Let's take PROUD to task..."

    WHY? Because he's right? The wealthy have had it pretty cushy lately.
  • boltfox20 Lady Wh... 2012/07/16 14:28:35
    boltfox20
    Wait, his post wasn't just a bunch of gibberish?
  • Singerar boltfox20 2012/07/17 03:26:38
    Singerar
    +1
    It is if you are only a High School graduate!
  • boltfox20 Singerar 2012/07/17 04:21:22
    boltfox20
    What's education have to do with anything?
  • Singerar boltfox20 2012/07/17 06:35:46
    Singerar
    +1
    Did you actually read his post and digest it? Or was it just blah, blah, blah?
    You DID call it gibberish.

    That's what I meant.
  • boltfox20 Singerar 2012/07/18 00:39:53 (edited)
    boltfox20
    Well, the key that would allow it all to make sense, I'd think, is whatever PROUD is. I don't recall it being mentioned in the above article and have never heard of it before. I know of the word proud, but not any kind of organization or bill by that name or acronym.

    Ignoring that for the moment, the rest still doesn't make much sense.

    Saying it's too easy to tax the rich (which is far from the truth) does not negate it as a good idea.

    Building a fence has yet to keep anyone out, let alone keep anyone in, especially those with money and connections.

    He doesn't even have a suggestion for those who want to just keep their money and retire rich.

    Then PROUD is discussed again and then some random comment about socialism which doesn't explain if he's for it or against it or what it even has to do with the subject at hand. Is PROUD a sociolist group?

    This is why I describe it as being gibberish. No point is ever successfully made and he never defines PROUD as anything except what he despises and never actually gives a reason for that, either. There's also the matter of his horrible grammer and trollish nature in using caps as easily as the rest of us hit the space bar.

    As such, despite the level of education someone has, his post makes very little sense to the uninformed and not much more ...






    Well, the key that would allow it all to make sense, I'd think, is whatever PROUD is. I don't recall it being mentioned in the above article and have never heard of it before. I know of the word proud, but not any kind of organization or bill by that name or acronym.

    Ignoring that for the moment, the rest still doesn't make much sense.

    Saying it's too easy to tax the rich (which is far from the truth) does not negate it as a good idea.

    Building a fence has yet to keep anyone out, let alone keep anyone in, especially those with money and connections.

    He doesn't even have a suggestion for those who want to just keep their money and retire rich.

    Then PROUD is discussed again and then some random comment about socialism which doesn't explain if he's for it or against it or what it even has to do with the subject at hand. Is PROUD a sociolist group?

    This is why I describe it as being gibberish. No point is ever successfully made and he never defines PROUD as anything except what he despises and never actually gives a reason for that, either. There's also the matter of his horrible grammer and trollish nature in using caps as easily as the rest of us hit the space bar.

    As such, despite the level of education someone has, his post makes very little sense to the uninformed and not much more to the informed. It's simply a gibberish post.

    And considering this response he gave to someone else:

    [Bwaa haa, made you look AND waste your time.
    PAYBACK DEFINED.]

    I doubt he's anything more than a troll spouting off random junk in an attempt to get a rise out of people, and occasionally succeeding, making him not actually worth the time and effort needed to look into whatever he's talking about.
    (more)
  • Singerar boltfox20 2012/07/18 04:49:57
    Singerar
    PROUD is the Author of the post and a Scholared member on this blog.

    Does he really use caps? I didn't see it other to describe such things which needed to be emphasized, two words I believe - "trillion" and "once". What are you reading?
    He only wrote 4 small paragraphs as a forward to the article posted by another Author named Silence Dogood.

    I feel the article explains everything quite well.

    The person you so hastily quoted was not Proud. It was another member. Their names are next to their icons. The fact that your reasoning skills are so bad solidifies the fact that education does help with problem solving. So far, you haven't understood a thing about this blog.

    Proud is FAR from a troll.
  • boltfox20 Singerar 2012/07/19 08:32:24
    boltfox20
    [PROUD is the Author of the post and a Scholared member on this blog.]

    I rarely pay attention to who posts the articles on here. The identity of the poster makes no difference to me. It does make the comment make slightly more sense, though.

    [The person you so hastily quoted was not Proud. It was another member. Their names are next to their icons. The fact that your reasoning skills are so bad solidifies the fact that education does help with problem solving. So far, you haven't understood a thing about this blog.]

    I find it funny how you are accusing me of a lack of education and understanding, yet you just showed you completely misunderstood my posts.

    I have nothing against the original article. I was declaring Maynard's comment to be trollish in nature as well as making little to no sense. I don't see how you managed to twist it around to me calling ProudProgressive a troll, especially when I had already said I wasn't aware of what "PROUD" meant in this context. Another clue should have been when I wasn't quoting ProudProgressive, but Maynard when I was explaining my stance.

    Go back through this conversation, starting with Maynard's post, where it all began, and try again. You can avoid this type of misunderstanding in the future by looking at who people are responding to. It s...

    [PROUD is the Author of the post and a Scholared member on this blog.]

    I rarely pay attention to who posts the articles on here. The identity of the poster makes no difference to me. It does make the comment make slightly more sense, though.

    [The person you so hastily quoted was not Proud. It was another member. Their names are next to their icons. The fact that your reasoning skills are so bad solidifies the fact that education does help with problem solving. So far, you haven't understood a thing about this blog.]

    I find it funny how you are accusing me of a lack of education and understanding, yet you just showed you completely misunderstood my posts.

    I have nothing against the original article. I was declaring Maynard's comment to be trollish in nature as well as making little to no sense. I don't see how you managed to twist it around to me calling ProudProgressive a troll, especially when I had already said I wasn't aware of what "PROUD" meant in this context. Another clue should have been when I wasn't quoting ProudProgressive, but Maynard when I was explaining my stance.

    Go back through this conversation, starting with Maynard's post, where it all began, and try again. You can avoid this type of misunderstanding in the future by looking at who people are responding to. It says it very clearly at the top of every post.

    Did your "Graduate/Professional School" not teach you this, or is it simply a matter of education not mattering in this context?
    (more)
  • Singerar boltfox20 2012/07/20 16:51:03
    Singerar
    You edited your post. It's not as originally written. You were blaming the whole post on PROUD, excluding Maynard's postings. I know what I read.
  • boltfox20 Singerar 2012/07/24 15:40:51
    boltfox20
    Right... You go ahead and believe what you want to believe. The rest of us will be over here where the honest and intelligent people sit. When you're ready to admit your mistake, we'll be waiting.

    By the way, only one of my posts was edited, and the edit was a fixed typo made before you responded to it.

    Good luck with your fantasy world.
  • Singerar boltfox20 2012/07/24 20:22:58
    Singerar
    You CHANGED your story!!! You can try and Patronize me all you want but you changed you post to suit you slam on me. Other people will figure this out. Especially as you keep slamming!
  • boltfox20 Singerar 2012/07/25 00:46:16
    boltfox20
    I'm slamming nothing.

    You accused me of being too stupid to understand the original article, when that isn't what I was talking about at all. That much is obvious in the first post you responded to, which has not been edited.

    You then accused me of not reading the original article, which not only had nothing to do with my post, but seemed like you were talking about Maynard's post, which I was. Again, fairly obvious who I was talking about, and it seemed at this point that you were talking about him as well.

    I then wrote a long explanation about why I thought Maynard's post was gibberish, including that I had no idea what "PROUD" was, as I had not read who posted the original article. This is the part of the post that is KEY to this entire conversation, and was obviously there when you responded as you responded to my inquiry about what "PROUD" was referring to. The only edit I made to the post was to fix a typo, which was before you even commented.

    Surely you must have noticed the (edited) part when you originally posted?

    Then, without touching any of the previous posts, I made another response, telling you the error of your ways and how I was referring to Maynard, the entire time, as is, once again, obvious in every post.

    Now you accuse me of changing my story to look better.

    Can't...

    I'm slamming nothing.

    You accused me of being too stupid to understand the original article, when that isn't what I was talking about at all. That much is obvious in the first post you responded to, which has not been edited.

    You then accused me of not reading the original article, which not only had nothing to do with my post, but seemed like you were talking about Maynard's post, which I was. Again, fairly obvious who I was talking about, and it seemed at this point that you were talking about him as well.

    I then wrote a long explanation about why I thought Maynard's post was gibberish, including that I had no idea what "PROUD" was, as I had not read who posted the original article. This is the part of the post that is KEY to this entire conversation, and was obviously there when you responded as you responded to my inquiry about what "PROUD" was referring to. The only edit I made to the post was to fix a typo, which was before you even commented.

    Surely you must have noticed the (edited) part when you originally posted?

    Then, without touching any of the previous posts, I made another response, telling you the error of your ways and how I was referring to Maynard, the entire time, as is, once again, obvious in every post.

    Now you accuse me of changing my story to look better.

    Can't you just accept that you made a tiny, insignificant mistake? Any adult would accept that, apologize, and move on with their lives. Instead, you are obsessing over this and trying to cast me as some type of evil villain.

    You started this chain of responses with an error in reasoning, and you are continuing it with an error in reasoning. Why can't you just accept it and move on?
    (more)
  • Singerar boltfox20 2012/07/25 04:50:38
    Singerar
    Look who's obsessed
  • boltfox20 Singerar 2012/07/28 15:29:37
    boltfox20
    Right. As I said, have fun in your fantasy world. I'm done trying to talk sense into you.
  • Singerar boltfox20 2012/07/20 16:53:19
    Singerar
    Oooh, way to back peddle.
  • Paul Maynard 2012/07/16 15:30:47
    Paul
    your comments are ridiculus, "TAX THE RICH TILL THERE AINT NO RICH NO MORE", putting it in caps just presents a stupid remark louder. And then you want to make comparison to the Berlin Wall, what kind of rational suggestion is that? Socialism is no more on the rise today than it has been for several decades.
    Thanks for sparing us by "going on" with irrational ideas
  • Maynard Paul 2012/07/17 12:05:56
    Maynard
    Bwaa haa, made you look AND waste your time.

    PAYBACK DEFINED.
  • JackSchitt Maynard 2012/07/16 21:39:57 (edited)
    JackSchitt
    +1
    "...till there are no, rich no more". And the guy who penned those lyrics (Alvin Lee) ended up living here:

    rich guy penned lyrics ended living

    Ain't that just a HOOT?

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