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Court: Christians can be ordered to violate beliefs

Arizona1950 2012/06/05 04:48:46
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The women complained under the state’s anti-discrimination requirements and a state commission, the New Mexico Human Rights Commission, imposed the penalty, which now has been affirmed by the appeals court judges. The judges explained in the 45-page ruling that the photography company is a “public accommodation” and those cannot discriminate under state law based on “sexual orientation.”

A ruling from Judge Tim L. Garcia in the New Mexico Court of Appeals says states can require Christians to violate their faith in order to do business, affirming a penalty of nearly $7,000 for a photographer who refused to take pictures at a lesbian “commitment” ceremony in the state where same-sex “marriage” was illegal.

“The owners of Elane Photography must accept the reasonable regulations and restrictions imposed upon the conduct of their commercial enterprise despite their personal religious beliefs that may conflict with these governmental interests,” the judges wrote.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/refuse-to-photograph-lesbians-get-...

What! The owners must accept the regulations and restrictions imposed despite their personal religious beliefs because they conflict with governmental interests. What the hell happened to separation of church and state! What the hell happend to the individual's choice in a free society? What the hell happened with the concept of find another photographer ... free enterprise!

You think I'm voting for the continued tyranical governing of the NWO ... you're nuts!
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  • safari 2012/06/05 05:04:27
    Liberty ... freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
    safari
    +10
    this is outrageous - I can't believe we've collectedly allowed such a huge loss of freedoms under our watch.

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  • NightRyder 2012/10/01 15:16:41 (edited)
    How does one respond to this insanity!
    NightRyder
    +1
    “How does one respond to this insanity!”(?)


    How does one respond to cancer in their body? The answer to these questions is the same. Need I say more?

    The founders of this country had religious convictions, and they understood that vengeance is not a Christian prerogative. However, they also knew that removing the burden of tyranny from the people of this country was self-defense, not vengeance. They partitioned king George, and he refused to listen to them. The current government had also been partitioned by the people, and they too, refuse to hear the people.

    The founders, being Christian, or believers of God in other forms, knew that to take vengeance was wrong, but they also knew that self-defense against tyranny was not.

    In scripture we find this; “If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.” (Romans 12:18)

    This instruction to be at peace with all people is conditioned upon the objective possibility of doing so. The subjective impossibility of the Christian's being unable to restrain himself, or some such thing, is not in view here at all. The impossibility allowed by God in Paul’s teaching is a negation of the precept of peace would lie only in the kind of a situation where truth and duty would require resistance. Peace with some people under ...







    “How does one respond to this insanity!”(?)


    How does one respond to cancer in their body? The answer to these questions is the same. Need I say more?

    The founders of this country had religious convictions, and they understood that vengeance is not a Christian prerogative. However, they also knew that removing the burden of tyranny from the people of this country was self-defense, not vengeance. They partitioned king George, and he refused to listen to them. The current government had also been partitioned by the people, and they too, refuse to hear the people.

    The founders, being Christian, or believers of God in other forms, knew that to take vengeance was wrong, but they also knew that self-defense against tyranny was not.

    In scripture we find this; “If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.” (Romans 12:18)

    This instruction to be at peace with all people is conditioned upon the objective possibility of doing so. The subjective impossibility of the Christian's being unable to restrain himself, or some such thing, is not in view here at all. The impossibility allowed by God in Paul’s teaching is a negation of the precept of peace would lie only in the kind of a situation where truth and duty would require resistance. Peace with some people under some circumstances is impossible without the sacrifice of honor and duty where protection of country and family became their duty and obligation.

    The Constitution could not contain the 30,000 pages of the founders’ letters that explained their intentions, and thoughts on the laws written in the Constitution. Further understanding of the Constitution can be found in; “Virginia Statute For Religious Freedom”, “The Declaration of Independence”, and the many letters of the founders in the Library of Congress.org, as well as the books that contain them at Gutenberg E-Books. Examples;

    “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” - Thomas Jefferson

    “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their government.”....George Washington

    "The several States composing the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their General Government" -- Thomas Jefferson
    (more)
  • Arizona... NightRyder 2012/10/02 01:37:11
    Arizona1950
    Pretty sad the nature of man ... eh? We can only thank God that not all are the same.
  • NightRyder Arizona... 2012/10/02 14:35:55 (edited)
    NightRyder
    +1
    But most are the same, Arizona. But few see it;

    "From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." (James 4:1-3)

    Some Commentators say it is startling that James would refer to the disputes and wranglings of church members in such terms as "wars and fightings", and then ask; “but is this not actually the nature of them?” They then say; "James cannot be thinking of wars and fightings between nations."

    However, James was indeed talking about wars and fightings between nations, and all in the name of God. The first World War was based on Germany’s belief that they were special, and World War two carried the same belief in the German government under Hitler. It is the belief that carried in the thoughts of some Muslims, that their terrorist attacks are the will of Allah, their God, and their director of their Holy War. It is another clue that points to the apostation of religion in these last days. When did the last days begin?

    “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall ...
















    But most are the same, Arizona. But few see it;

    "From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." (James 4:1-3)

    Some Commentators say it is startling that James would refer to the disputes and wranglings of church members in such terms as "wars and fightings", and then ask; “but is this not actually the nature of them?” They then say; "James cannot be thinking of wars and fightings between nations."

    However, James was indeed talking about wars and fightings between nations, and all in the name of God. The first World War was based on Germany’s belief that they were special, and World War two carried the same belief in the German government under Hitler. It is the belief that carried in the thoughts of some Muslims, that their terrorist attacks are the will of Allah, their God, and their director of their Holy War. It is another clue that points to the apostation of religion in these last days. When did the last days begin?

    “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” (1 John 2:18)

    The invasion of Christian personality by evil influences contrary to it is a recurring problem in every generation; every Christian must fight and win the war spoken of in these verses. The idea that James is here speaking only of religious teachers and their disputes, and another notion to the effect that James, writing to Jews of the Diaspora, directed these teachings against the wars of Jews with each other - both ideas, are untenable. The words of this section are applicable today, being sorely reflected in countless situations all over the world.

    The kind of wars and fightings just mentioned is precisely that of pleasures warring against the soul's true interests "in your members," meaning not "between members of the church" exclusively (though this is included), but within men themselves, individually.
    Paul explained this condition to Timothy, and how it has come into being;

    “For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;” (2 Timothy 3:2-4)

    We see this around us day in and day out of our lives. Today it is mostly the government that shows this, but isn’t it the same as the priesthood (Israel’s government) was in the days Jesus walked this earth. There are many such lists of sins in Paul's writings; and none of them is exhaustive or complete. What is given here in the twenty earmarks of an apostate world is a general description of the type of characters meant. The government’s desires are not met and they do not have; so they kill. They covet and cannot obtain; so they fight and wage war, sometimes in the name of God. The frustration and misery of the selfish, pleasure-craving soul are eloquently portrayed in these scriptures.

    There is no hint here that if they had prayed for the ability to gratify their lustful pleasures God would have given it; rather, that their willful selfishness had dried up the springs of prayer within themselves. God answers prayer, but not all prayer, especially not in giving the ungodly the ingredients for selfish gratification. The Bible reveals exactly whose prayers are answered. He hears the cry of the righteous (Psalms 34:15); he hears those who call upon him in truth (Psalms 145:18); and he hears the penitent (Luke 18:14): those who ask "in his name" (John 14:13), those who ask "believing" (Mark 11:24), and those who ask according to God's will (1 John 5:14). As Gibson observed, here again "is an evident allusion to the sermon on the mount (Matthew 7:7-9)."

    And; “And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:7-8)

    The power and wrath of the eternal God are ever against those who persecute his people. Lactantius has twenty pages of the most interesting discussions of the awful punishments, judgments, and miseries that befell the famed persecutors of the church, giving in detail the things that happened to Nero, Domitian, Decius, Valerian, Aurelian, Diocletian, etc. All these things took place shortly after the beginning of this era after the death of Christ. This also portrays Revelation 20:3, and the war that ensued during the imprisonment of Satan. That war lasted roughly 350 years, but as the old Rome died, the new Rome was born.

    Lucius Caecilius Firmianus Lactantius was an early Christian author (AD. 240 – AD. 320) who became an advisor to the first Christian Roman emperor, Constantine I, guiding his religious policy as it developed, and tutor to his son.
    (more)
  • Arizona... NightRyder 2012/10/03 01:35:47
    Arizona1950
    +1
    Always eloquent and factual ... you can surely out-talk me.
  • NightRyder Arizona... 2012/10/03 05:23:36
    NightRyder
    +1
    I get it from scripture, dear, and most of the time I can find natural history that actually backs the scriptures strongly.
  • Arizona... NightRyder 2012/10/03 13:23:27
    Arizona1950
    +1
    Yes, I know ...
  • NightRyder Arizona... 2012/10/03 15:39:45
  • Arizona... NightRyder 2012/10/04 01:24:39
  • NightRyder Arizona... 2012/10/04 15:53:43 (edited)
    NightRyder
    +1
    Dear, please don't mis-understand me here. Above you said; "you can surely out-talk me." But it isn't a matter of out-talking someone that should be preceived.

    Sometimes I wish I didn't have the gift of understanding that God has given me, but on the other hand, I can find joy. I am holy, and that has a great amount of consolation in it.

    The Lord led me to the Proverbs and told me; "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." (Proverbs 9:10)

    But verses 11 and12 does scare me when I consider what is happening in the world; "For by me thy days shall be multiplied, and the years of thy life shall be increased. If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: but if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it."

    That tells me that "scorn", or "hatred", is a great enemy, and judgment lies in its wake.
  • T A 2012/06/26 00:16:41
    Liberty ... freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
    T A
    +1
    It's not a public accommodation. It is a private individual or individuals with their own rights of free association or dissociation performing a fee based service.
  • Arizona... T A 2012/06/26 01:11:32 (edited)
    Arizona1950
    I would sure like to know when private business became an extension of government which is "public" and no longer separates Church and State. We are definitely not a theocracy but we are most definitely falling into a tyranny.
  • T A Arizona... 2012/06/26 01:59:31
    T A
    +1
    I don't know when but I know that everything and everyone is simply a rental from the US government. We pay them for every transaction coming and going. They take our pay from source and they take away homes if you don't pay the rent (property tax).
  • Arizona... T A 2012/06/26 02:05:27
    Arizona1950
    Yep ... and they always want more ... if people don't realize how important this election is regarding the survival of our Constitution they really have their heads deep in the sand.
  • T A Arizona... 2012/06/26 02:31:42
    T A
    Whoever wins, spending will increase in both foreign and domestic spheres. The dollar will continue to depreciate against all commodities. More laws against us will be passed. None of the laws already passed will be repealed.
  • Arizona... T A 2012/06/26 02:47:59
    Arizona1950
    Ahh ... you believe in the DEM/GOP Progressive Party .. yes you are correct either side will take you in the exact same direction.
  • T A Arizona... 2012/06/26 02:52:11
    T A
    +1
    I don['t believe in them, no. My feeling is that believing politics can or will cure what politicians have done is like believing tooth decay will fix itself.
  • Arizona... T A 2012/06/26 02:56:23 (edited)
    Arizona1950
    LOL ... great analogy.

    Just watched this ... perhaps we should follow Iceland. Ron Paul got it right again.

  • Aqua Surf 2012/06/25 02:40:41
    Liberty ... freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
    Aqua Surf
    +1
    Tell the judges to stick it up their Marxist a$$e$ and hold your ground. This is unconstitutional; fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. Do not give one inch or one penny.
  • Arizona... Aqua Surf 2012/06/25 12:25:18
    Arizona1950
    +1
    I happen to agree. If nothing less all 3 judges should be voted out ... I hope they are all up for re-election this November.
  • Icono1 2012/06/24 18:54:09
    Liberty ... freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
    Icono1
    +2
    This ruling is ludicrous at best. Also the 'gays' could of got another company to do the photo shoot.

    I wonder what the ruling would of been if a Muslim business had refused to take the pictures?
  • Arizona... Icono1 2012/06/25 01:31:57
    Arizona1950
    +1
    Oh I agree ... I picture the ruling being quite different.

    The sad part is the couple did hire another photographer, did enjoy their day and had it preserved on film, and then turned around sued and won.
  • Lonely girl 2012/06/17 08:17:57
    Liberty ... freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
    Lonely girl
    +2
    In my opinion the government has no right to force an independent business owner to do anything against their beliefs. However if a business owner decides to alienate a whole segment of potential customers due to their religion they stand to lose a lot of money and risk the future of their business. They should be able to separate their own personal beliefs from their business in order to stay competitive in their field. Once again it is totally up to them and not the government. The couple should have taken their business and their money else where.
  • Arizona... Lonely ... 2012/06/17 13:52:32
    Arizona1950
    +1
    They did and after their honeymoon came back and sued anyway because they could and they won.
  • 4Common... Arizona... 2012/06/21 17:56:28
    4CommonSense
    +2
    Can someone say CONTITUTION?
  • Arizona... 4Common... 2012/06/22 01:31:07
    Arizona1950
    +1
    My thoughts exactly ...
  • carri byers 2012/06/17 03:45:21 (edited)
    Where did our constitution go ... here's my thoughts!
    carri byers
    +1
    This is the slippery slope I've been complaining about since MA legalized SSM. The liberals scoff, the LGBT community insisted we were all being paranoid and the ACLU spits on those of us concerned about our civil liberties being in danger of being quashed in the name of a sexual minority's right to "normalcy". SSM is not the goal for the LGBT community - it is simply a step along the path of forced embracing of their sexual dysfunction. You can argue all you want about whether it is a dysfunction or not - I believe it to be. I have the freedom - at this point - to not embrace homosexuality. That will not always be the case if they have their way.
  • Arizona... carri b... 2012/06/17 03:53:47
    Arizona1950
    +2
    Collectivism vs Individualism .. the group or mob rules should never have happend in a Republic ... time to take our country back. I refuse to vote the status quo (again).
  • Sherlock Dog BL - a Gazillion 2012/06/17 00:46:02
  • Arizona... Sherloc... 2012/06/17 02:54:24
    Arizona1950
    You might find this a very interesting read ... I find it hard to put down.

    So Help me God
  • Marek 2012/06/13 05:51:27
    Liberty ... freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
    Marek
    +4
    That is an obamination. The courts have no respect for the Constitution and individual rights.
  • Arizona... Marek 2012/06/13 05:52:30
    Arizona1950
    +3
    I agree. Thank you.
  • Steve 2012/06/13 04:41:13
    Where did our constitution go ... here's my thoughts!
    Steve
    If you operate a business under a government-issued license, you're obligated to conduct that business according to legal standards, including non-discrimination laws.

    The court was correct.
  • Arizona... Steve 2012/06/13 04:45:58
    Arizona1950
    +3
    You made that up didn't you! LOL ... since when does one operating their own private business become a government controlled entity when it comes to individual choice that is not hurting anyone. Probably around the same time liberals stopped thinking about the constitution ... about 100 years ago.
  • Steve Arizona... 2012/06/13 04:53:33
    Steve
    This question was settled with the passage of the Civil Rights Act. Non-discrimination laws affecting licensed businesses are legal, constitutional, and appropriate.
  • Arizona... Steve 2012/06/13 04:56:36
    Arizona1950
    +3
    The question remains do you think the constitution which is based on individual rights and responsibility is something to be followed or manipulated?
  • Steve Arizona... 2012/06/13 05:14:01
    Steve
    Followed, absolutely. The constitutionality of non-discrimination laws has already been judged by the Federal courts. If you think those laws should be unconstitutional, you can advocate for a constitutional amendment. That's how our Constitution works. We should respect that.
  • Arizona... Steve 2012/06/13 05:19:27
    Arizona1950
    +3
    Sure you do and I do know how the consitution was supposed to work ... too bad you haven't figured it out yet.
  • Steve Arizona... 2012/06/13 05:30:49
    Steve
    It doesn't matter how you or I think the Constitution is supposed to work. The Supreme Court is the final arbiter of such questions. When they get it wrong, a Constitutional Amendment is the remedy.
  • Arizona... Steve 2012/06/13 05:38:45
    Arizona1950
    +3
    Okay ... can't open the eyes of someone who refuses to see that the Court isn't always right or fair when they have the mindset that collectivism beats individualism.
  • Marek Steve 2012/06/13 06:09:36
    Marek
    +3
    I don't believe that Civil Rights Act included lifestyle choice.
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