Quantcast

Can Libertarians and the left work together?

Cyan9 2012/08/10 22:57:37

I was recently asked that question and below are my thoughts. I would enjoy to hear your ideas on libertarians and the left(in particular the liberal left) working together.

As someone who has often used the term “left-libertarian” to describe
myself, I’ve always found the American Libertarian tendency to ally
with Republicans frustrating. I think the left and libertarians could
accomplish a lot together. Mike Gravel has always made much more sense
to me than Ron Paul. Many reasons exist as to why I feel a partnership
between libertarians and the left would be much more beneficial to both
groups than the status quo. Namely, I think there are very compatible
views on the bill of rights, the military, corruption and being socially
liberal to build an alliance upon.


There is a very strong liberal/civil-libertarian faction in the
Democratic Party. They’re the Mark Udall’s who oppose the Carl Levin’s
of the party. They vote against military aggression, against drug
prohibition and tend to protect the civil liberties of their
constituents (habeas corpus, protest, privacy etc). Let’s look at the
NDAA 2012 as an example: http://i.imgur.com/p6DTu.pngThe above is the vote on the Udall Amendment which would have stripped the language of Section 1021 from the law (http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/112/senate/1/210).
Two thirds of the Democratic block voted aye. Only Senator Kirk of
Illinois and Senator Rand of Kentucky voted with the 35 Democrats (one a
moderate, the other Ron Paul’s son). Now let’s examine the 17
Democrats who voted nay. Seven came from states that traditionally vote
Republican and a full 10 voted who voted nay came from a state with a
senator of each party( Because of overlap, 11 out of the 17 belong in at
least one of those groups). Section 1021 would have never had made it
onto the President’s desk without near universal support coming from
Republicans. This point can easily be made about the Iraq War, the
Patriot Act and many other policies. Far too often does the
neoconservative agenda get pushed into law because a minority of hawkish
Democrats decides to vote across the aisle.


Let’s look at how Paul supporters have been treated throughout the
Republican nomination process. Due to Paul’s rather outspoken stances
on reducing military spending, ending drug probation and restoring
habeas corpus he has been perpetually demagogued. The neo-McCarthyites
who demonized the liberals, opposing these things under Bush, are now
launching a full out assault on the libertarians of the Republican
Party. This seems like a rather abusive relationship. Forget all the
propaganda you hear about being “politically correct”. This is a
fiction propagated by the religious right. When push comes to shove,
there is much more toleration of dissent and diversity of thought in the
Democratic Party than there is in the Republican Party.


What about the discrepancies in economic policy? I feel as if this
is largely exaggerated. Let’s look at the issue of “crony capitalism”.
Both the left and libertarians viscerally oppose the collusion of
corporate and state power. The same can be said about occupy and the
tea party. The difference comes down to methods. The left tends to
address this problem by restricting corporate power- the libertarians,
by restricting state power. However, can we not achieve some mutually
beneficial synthesis of these two methods? I think we can. At the very
least, it would be more effective than trying to negotiate with Romney
or any of the other corporate apologists. Allow me to use energy
diversification as an example. Many Libertarians are rightfully upset
over the friendliness between green businesses and the Democratic
Party. They distrust the subsidies because it reeks of collusion. Yet
we spend more on subsidies for oil than we do for green energy. Green
energy would be on a better footing if all energy subsidies were
removed. Democrats have long tried to end oil subsidies. That seems
like-dare-I-say a compromise? Something that benefits all parties?
Sweet ideologues above, forbid it! We could then pursue more effective
methods of energy diversification through infrastructure and public
goods. This is assuming you think the provision of roads and trains
within the duty of the government. However, the point is the same
regardless. Even when it comes to economic policy there is a lot of
room for mutually beneficial cooperation (an interesting example of
such: http://www.holisticpolitics.org/WelfareThatWorks/).
I would be happy to provide more examples but I’ll refrain for now.
Lastly, there is the obvious point that both groups are socially
liberal.


For the past generation the American left has had a difficult time
being liberal(in the original sense of the word). Sadly, we have far
too often stumbled and buckled under the pressure and temptations of
authoritarianism. Libertarians have had encountered much difficulty
being taken seriously by Republicans and actually effecting their
platform. Although I no longer consider myself a left-libertarian (i’ll
explain in a later post), I still believe a little bit more
libertarianism in the Democratic Party would benefit everybody.

Read More: http://gauchnomica.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/libert...

You!
Add Photos & Videos

Top Opinion

  • U-Dog 2012/08/12 02:12:39
    U-Dog
    +6
    Mini-archists Libertarians are essentially the Classical Liberals of the past before the progressive collectivists took over the Democratic Party. There are plenty of political policies where Libertarians share common ground with both the right and the left today but Libertarians do not generally come to similar conclusions with either thru the same philosophic reasoning nor do they ultimately share the same overall goals.

Sort By
  • Most Raves
  • Least Raves
  • Oldest
  • Newest
Opinions

  • Gwendolyn Harper 2012/11/22 05:36:17
    Gwendolyn Harper
    So down deep democrats don't want big government to succeed? Yes, I agree with this article on some points. Others, no.
  • Ramon 2012/09/22 12:13:56
    Ramon
    Not as long as Liberals stand for big government programs.
  • Tasine 2012/08/22 14:41:44
    Tasine
    +3
    I'm a new Libertarian, straight out of the Republican Party. I left the Republican Party, not because of politics, but because I finally accepted it cared not one whit about its constituents except their money and their votes.
    The same is true of the Democrat Party. I won't cooperate with either one of them.

    It is true the Libertarian Party and the Democrat Party share some common beliefs, but it is also true, or I believe it is true, that their philosophies are not shared. I could be wrong, and if I am wrong, guess I'll look for another Party.

    I cannot tolerate the hatred, the venomous speech, the scorched earth philosophy of the Democrat Party which I see as liberal in the political sense, but not in the philosophical sense. I have never understood why a true liberal remains with the Democrat Party. It is a grafting, crude, dishonest Party.

    I urge all voters who want good government to abandon the Democrat Party and the Republican Party and join up with a Party that mostly aligns with your political thinking and which has some integrity.
  • Cyan9 Tasine 2012/08/22 17:49:52
    Cyan9
    +1
    Because there are only two parties in the United States and it's not likely to change anytime soon.
  • Tasine Cyan9 2012/08/22 17:52:59
    Tasine
    +1
    No, there are more than 2 parties. Problem is that Democrats and Republicans are "the major parties" and stifle all others. However, if people left them in droves, they'd either change or disappear. No one HAS to vote either Democrat or Republican.
  • Gwendol... Tasine 2012/11/22 05:38:36
    Gwendolyn Harper
    I agree. But how do we explain this to people who think we are "wasting our vote." It was very hard for me to vote libertarian this first time. But I did and I have guilt about it. Like I "let" Obama win.
  • Tasine Gwendol... 2012/11/22 09:04:11
    Tasine
    +1
    I believe we should base all our attempts on the basis of individual liberty. Almost every law on the books removes freedoms from individuals, groups, or businesses. Every law is about FORCE. The force of law. Obey or else. The left cannot exist without FORCE to make people do as the left pleases because they cannot convince enough free people to give up liberty for the sake of the Democrat or Green Party - ergo, they are big on LAWS and the force behind the laws.

    I, too, voted libertarian for the first time. I quit the Republican Party after being a voting and donating member for over 45 years. I voted liberatarian because I abhor force for force's sake, and I felt Mr. Romney was enamored by force just as Obama and all the democrats - and, let's face it, many republicans. I believe if we can get people interested in their personal freedoms instead of special single issue voting - MOST OF WHICH is passed for the FORCE behind it to CONTROL the population in ways they COULD NOT DO WITHOUT FORCE.

    I am so sorry you feel guilty. It is those who refuse to vote on principle as opposed to voting for the expediency of "winning" an election all the while knowing our ballot box is permanently and terminally tainted who SHOULD feel guilty if anyone does. Bet we haven't had an hon...
    I believe we should base all our attempts on the basis of individual liberty. Almost every law on the books removes freedoms from individuals, groups, or businesses. Every law is about FORCE. The force of law. Obey or else. The left cannot exist without FORCE to make people do as the left pleases because they cannot convince enough free people to give up liberty for the sake of the Democrat or Green Party - ergo, they are big on LAWS and the force behind the laws.

    I, too, voted libertarian for the first time. I quit the Republican Party after being a voting and donating member for over 45 years. I voted liberatarian because I abhor force for force's sake, and I felt Mr. Romney was enamored by force just as Obama and all the democrats - and, let's face it, many republicans. I believe if we can get people interested in their personal freedoms instead of special single issue voting - MOST OF WHICH is passed for the FORCE behind it to CONTROL the population in ways they COULD NOT DO WITHOUT FORCE.

    I am so sorry you feel guilty. It is those who refuse to vote on principle as opposed to voting for the expediency of "winning" an election all the while knowing our ballot box is permanently and terminally tainted who SHOULD feel guilty if anyone does. Bet we haven't had an honest election if 100 years. I don't feel the least guilty. I feel vindicated as I tried to convince people to vote for their MORALS, and they refused to. I think Gary Johnson could have been the next President if people hadn't sold their souls merely to "win" an election EVERYONE KNEW would be rigged. There was no way Obama was going to walk away a loser!!!. Hold your head HIGH, gal. You've earned the right! I firmly believe the only thing that interested both the RNC and the DNC is that ONE of their candidates, either Romney or Obama got into office. I feel silly saying that even though I honestly believe it to be true. I don't think most people see that. I salute you
    (more)
  • Gwendol... Tasine 2012/11/22 23:19:19
    Gwendolyn Harper
    +1
    Thank you very much. I believe in everything the libertarians believe in except getting rid of Medicare. I think that Medicare is needed. But at least I can have an open conversation with Gary Johnson and we can agree to disagree.
  • prayer ... Tasine 2012/10/02 02:14:36
    prayer warrior
    +1
    My views tend to follow Gary Johnson but they are close to the a lot of the Dems thoughts. I don't believe in big government either. Unfortunately a third party to grow must start on the local level and as it grows in strength move into the National arena.
  • Tasine prayer ... 2012/11/22 09:05:20
    Tasine
    +1
    A vote for anything less than personal freedom is a wasted vote.
  • rocat 2012/08/22 14:19:35
    rocat
    +3
    libertarians...
    have little in common ...
    with the modern 2-party system.-

    really just one party...
    with two authoritarian heads-

    party snake says

    party snake says...
    love and obey me...
    or else...
  • Red Branch 2012/08/22 14:08:17
    Red Branch
    +1
    I have always felt that the Libertarians worked well with the Democrats because I believed they really were liberals but would not admit it. There are some Libertarians that tend to go with the Republicans and there are Libertarians that follow a straight path that neither veers to the Left or Right.

    I see your biggest problem as coming with your definition of a Libertarian. Toward the end you admit to having been a Left-Libertarian, but you still would like to see more cooperation between the Libertarians and the Democrat party. While you may not consider yourself a Left Libertarian, you still are.

    I do not see where govt subsidies for business is a Libertarian issue. You seem to object to subsidies for big oil, yet call for more subsidies for the green energy projects.

    In the 2008 election cycle, either the pharmaceutical industry or insurance industry gave $ 1 million to the RNConvention and about $800,000 to the DNConvention. The difference being that the Republicans allowed them to set up a booth right inside the convention hall so it was the first one you saw. The Democrats placed them around the corner so it was not the first thing you saw. Then the Democrats demonized them in their speeches.

    Obama was the top recipient of BP donations in the 2008 cycle...







    I have always felt that the Libertarians worked well with the Democrats because I believed they really were liberals but would not admit it. There are some Libertarians that tend to go with the Republicans and there are Libertarians that follow a straight path that neither veers to the Left or Right.

    I see your biggest problem as coming with your definition of a Libertarian. Toward the end you admit to having been a Left-Libertarian, but you still would like to see more cooperation between the Libertarians and the Democrat party. While you may not consider yourself a Left Libertarian, you still are.

    I do not see where govt subsidies for business is a Libertarian issue. You seem to object to subsidies for big oil, yet call for more subsidies for the green energy projects.

    In the 2008 election cycle, either the pharmaceutical industry or insurance industry gave $ 1 million to the RNConvention and about $800,000 to the DNConvention. The difference being that the Republicans allowed them to set up a booth right inside the convention hall so it was the first one you saw. The Democrats placed them around the corner so it was not the first thing you saw. Then the Democrats demonized them in their speeches.

    Obama was the top recipient of BP donations in the 2008 cycle. You need to check the Democrat Congressional votes from the oil producing states.

    Barney Frank was the leading House recipient of Fannie and Freddie donations, while Dodd and Obama were the top recipients in the Senate. Barney Frank's live in boyfriend, Adam Moses, was an executive with Fannie when the regulations were relaxed on Fannie and Freddie. No legislation to increase regulations could not get by Barney Frank because he was the Banking and Finance Committee chair or the assistant. The rules call for at least one vote coming from a minority party member for the legislation to leave the committee and in this case, that was Franks' vote.

    You are correct to use the NDAA as an example in this discussion.

    If you think back to the 2008 campaign, Obama and all Democrats ( I think) campaigned against the Patriot Act. Obama and the most of Democrats won in 2008 and gained control of the Presidency and both houses of Congress, yet they strengthened the Patriot Act in the 2009-2011 Congressional session.

    It is a time honored practice for some Congressional Critters to vote against certain legislation and make a lot of speeches against the same; because they know that it will pass anyway. It allows them to look like the voice of reason.
    (more)
  • Red Branch Red Branch 2012/08/22 14:14:06
    Red Branch
    +1
    My computer was acting strange and I didn't want to lose the above.

    It is claimed that no Republicans voted for Obamacare and that is wrong and most people know that.
    Susan Collins provided the 1 vote from the Republican party necessary to get the bill out of committee and on to the Senate floor so it could be discussed. She said she voted for it so it could be discussed but added that she may not vote for it again. She knew full well that the Dems had the 60 votes to pass Obamacare into law without her vote. She got her cake and got to eat it at the same time.
    This happens often. Too often because of an all-around lack of Integrity.
  • Gwendol... Red Branch 2012/11/22 05:39:56
    Gwendolyn Harper
    But if you go to the libertarian website, you'll see one big difference. They do not believe in social security or Medicare.
  • Red Branch 2012/08/21 22:46:07
    Red Branch
    +1
    Can someone reply to this, I just ran out of time and I want to find my way back here.
  • Cyan9 Red Branch 2012/08/22 12:27:42
    Cyan9
    +1
    Hope this helps.
  • Red Branch Cyan9 2012/08/22 14:20:40
    Red Branch
    It helps, I see that I am the only conservative type that replied and do not see any sense in debating this. I will answer clarification questions.
  • Geenie Nabottle 2012/08/14 06:03:43
    Geenie Nabottle
    +1
    I agree, however as long as the two major parties dominate...... It will be difficult for these two political factions to coalesce. Until then these two political constituencies will be like "Big Enders" vs. "Little Enders", both with the same goal of cracking the boiled egg but unable to agree on which side is doing it the right way!

    Where's Gulliver when you need him???
  • Kimmel 2012/08/13 14:02:21
    Kimmel
    +3
    Good luck.
  • Sissy 2012/08/13 13:10:45
    Sissy
    +3
    I took a very hard look at Dr. Paul the last time around and there were many things I agreed with, specifically his "take" on foreign policy. I was dead set against the war in Iraq and have for a long time wondered why we still have all those bases throughout the world?

    However, I do believe that government does have a place in our lives, and I could never get my arms around his basic theory that government should only protect our borders and that state's should be on their own. Something that was settled I believe, in the Civil War.
  • Contard... Sissy 2012/08/13 13:38:55
    Contarded Chickenhawk Con Slayer
    +1
    See Cyan... Sissy and I are talking about the same thing....

    Get rid of the States Right diatribe, and you just might have a real party!
  • Cyan9 Contard... 2012/08/13 20:32:34
    Cyan9
    +1
    I find it really silly when people worship the 10th amendment. It's pretty ridiculous to state that state's have more rights than actual humans. I guess the leap from states' rights to corporations are people too isn't such a big jump after all.
  • Contard... Cyan9 2012/08/13 21:50:39
    Contarded Chickenhawk Con Slayer
    Yes Cyan9... YOU GET IT!

    thumbs up
  • U-Dog 2012/08/12 02:12:39
    U-Dog
    +6
    Mini-archists Libertarians are essentially the Classical Liberals of the past before the progressive collectivists took over the Democratic Party. There are plenty of political policies where Libertarians share common ground with both the right and the left today but Libertarians do not generally come to similar conclusions with either thru the same philosophic reasoning nor do they ultimately share the same overall goals.
  • Contard... U-Dog 2012/08/13 13:39:21
    Contarded Chickenhawk Con Slayer
    +3
    You go U-Dog!
  • *Mahoga... U-Dog 2012/08/13 15:20:28
    *Mahogany Goddess of P.H.A.E.T
    +2
    Exactly.
  • Contarded Chickenhawk Con S... 2012/08/11 16:10:04
    Contarded Chickenhawk Con Slayer
    +3
    It's easy Cyan9...

    I'll post this in the poll as well.

    Libertarians need to stop the "State Right" diatribe.

    That's all that needs to be done... Liberals will be in agreement then.... State Rights would put in jeopardy Equal rights...

    Drop the State's right and your got a party!
  • mk, Smartass Oracle 2012/08/11 15:55:28
    mk, Smartass Oracle
    +1
    No the liberals are totally controlled by the Communist Party
  • Sissy mk, Sma... 2012/08/13 13:07:20
  • kudabux 2012/08/11 13:54:23
    kudabux
    +4
    We can all work together with a little compromising
  • Contard... kudabux 2012/08/13 13:40:09
    Contarded Chickenhawk Con Slayer
    +2
    Liberals and Libertarians only Kuda! Out with the conservatives.
  • Sissy Contard... 2012/08/13 13:45:05
    Sissy
    +2
    AND the evengelicals, AND the TPr's, AND the Far Right.

    Then we're home free. lol
  • Contard... Sissy 2012/08/13 13:50:05
  • Sissy Contard... 2012/08/13 14:05:24
    Sissy
    +2
    It sorta brings out the multitude of factions that now make up the Republican Party. They can't get their own selves together, let alone working with anyone else. Go figure.
  • kudabux Sissy 2012/08/13 14:40:02
    kudabux
    +1
    Oops, thanks for the reminder. Out with them!!!
  • kudabux Contard... 2012/08/13 14:39:25
    kudabux
    +2
    LOL OK, I can go for that
  • DefendnProtect 2012/08/11 09:41:26
    DefendnProtect
    +5
    There's much to work together on.



    Hope the anti war, anti corporate/gov crony collusion and pro civil liberty liberals organize themselves fanatically like right wing evangelicals and take their Democrat platform back, which has been stolen by charming neocon liars.
  • Contard... Defendn... 2012/08/13 13:41:09
    Contarded Chickenhawk Con Slayer
    +2
    Excellent Defend... Most Excellent.
  • Spizzzo BN-0 2012/08/11 09:10:03
    Spizzzo BN-0
    +4
    Makes a hellovalotta sense to me. I've been frustrated by RWNJs who claim to be pro-liberty even as they promote extreme governmental controls on behavior, all while I think of myself as a "libertarian with morals" (unlike Ayn Rand, truth be told).

    So, I like this argument.
  • Chris- Demon of the PHAET 2012/08/11 09:00:01
    Chris- Demon of the PHAET
    +5
    I think you are absolutely right Cyan9. Most people on the left have more in common with the Libertarian party than they realize. I always considered myself to be a liberal Democrat, but recently some people on this site said I often sound like a Libertarian. So I looked into who is running as a Libertarian, where they stand on various issues, and found out I agree with Gary Johnson on more issues than I do with Barack Obama.
    Maybe we should all stop labeling ourselves as left, right, conservative, liberal, Republican, or Democrat. We should vote for issues rather than ideology.

News & Politics

2013/05/19 04:44:47

Hot Questions on SodaHead
More Hot Questions

More Community More Originals