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Can fear erode logic?

Latti Ice Ganga Gangsta of PHAET 2012/07/09 20:04:05
Yes
No
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  • Melizmatic 2012/07/09 20:08:32
    Yes
    Melizmatic
    +14
    Yup; we see it happen on this site daily.

    What do we have to fear most?

    The actions of scared, frustrated and confused people who think that owning a firearm somehow makes them "invincible".

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  • M. Aronson 2012/07/12 15:35:39
    Yes
    M. Aronson
    +1
    Of course. These days, we see it mostly in American politics. The Republican Party, aided by such questionable "news" outlets as Fox News, creates fear by making up unlikely Democrat scenarios, such as taking away their gun rights. That's a classic example of fear eroding logic, since the 2nd Amendment offers reasonable protection against such an event. Another great example of fear eroding logic is the insistence by millions of Americans that Obama isn't an American citizen and/or that he is a Muslim, despite every evidence to the contrary.

    On the other hand, the Democrats use REAL things the Republicans have said, such as wanting to get rid of Social Security, to garner votes.

    So the difference between the two major parties THESE DAYS is that Republicans use unreasonable fear as a tool to garner votes, while the Democrats use reason and logic.
  • M. Aronson M. Aronson 2012/07/12 17:33:16
    M. Aronson
    +1
    I'm "replying" to my own post. I wrote the above before having watched the video. I was familiar with most of the experiments discussed there, but it was good to have a "refresher course," so to speak.

    I think the #1 social situation that makes the other dangerous events possible is religion. Religion automatically puts people into this or that group, making everyone else an "outsider." There is no need or even WANT of logic when belonging to such a group, which hands down dogma that everyone in the group is supposed to take as is, without question. The indoctrination starts with very young children and continues ever afterward. People who have been brought up in any strict religion, IN MY EXPERIENCE, grew up in families where there was a strong triangular power structure, i.e. Father is at the top - chief boss, his word is Law, and no one better question it. At the bottom are the children, who must simply obey the rules and not question the Father. This breeds the kind of blind acceptance and obedience that most religions require, as do all MILITARY groups. Later on, this tends to show up in one's politics. Such people rarely cross into traditional liberal or Democratic territory, which tends to encourage the questioning of authority, or even the actual rebellion against it. ...





    I'm "replying" to my own post. I wrote the above before having watched the video. I was familiar with most of the experiments discussed there, but it was good to have a "refresher course," so to speak.

    I think the #1 social situation that makes the other dangerous events possible is religion. Religion automatically puts people into this or that group, making everyone else an "outsider." There is no need or even WANT of logic when belonging to such a group, which hands down dogma that everyone in the group is supposed to take as is, without question. The indoctrination starts with very young children and continues ever afterward. People who have been brought up in any strict religion, IN MY EXPERIENCE, grew up in families where there was a strong triangular power structure, i.e. Father is at the top - chief boss, his word is Law, and no one better question it. At the bottom are the children, who must simply obey the rules and not question the Father. This breeds the kind of blind acceptance and obedience that most religions require, as do all MILITARY groups. Later on, this tends to show up in one's politics. Such people rarely cross into traditional liberal or Democratic territory, which tends to encourage the questioning of authority, or even the actual rebellion against it. The #2 social situation is race/skin color. No need to explain that. The #3 social situation is politics. The #4 is nationalism.

    Let's not forget that the all-time, universal, #1 "OUT" group is animals. Because they are SO "out" (using the video's terminology), every human social group feels free to kill them, eat them, enslave them, abuse them, or whatever, with few, if any, consequences. It also provides the opportunity for any group to try to denigrate other human groups by calling them such names as "pigs" (ignoring, of course, the fact that pigs are intelligent, sensitive, and with clean personal hygiene habits.) Animals are every human group's kicking ball, every human group's victims.

    I think the only hope for us is if children are encouraged to question most rules, with their parents being ready to explain, using LOGIC, why those rules are in place. If the parent can't do that, then the rule shouldn't exist. Rote, automatic, blind obedience is the bane of civilization, and shouldn't be encouraged except in life-or-death situations, such as following the rules of the road when driving, being in a fire drill, etc.) An additional solution would be to stop using/abusing/eating animals, but I have little hope of most humans becoming perceptive and sensitive enough to do that. Animals are just so easy to take advantage of.

    Anyway, I thank Latrice very much for posting an exceptionally interesting, profound question, along with the video to illustrate examples. Bravo, Latrice!
    (more)
  • elijahin24 2012/07/11 13:50:15
    Yes
    elijahin24
    +2
    That's almost always the exact effect that it has. That's why those who have no merit to run for office, often use the politics of fear. That's why those who push religion onto those who don't want it, threaten them with eternal damnation.
  • Johann 2012/07/11 05:35:16
    Yes
    Johann
    +2
    From what I have seen, it can erode away logic. Nice video! Reminded me of Psychology class in high school.
  • TheBorg 2012/07/11 02:38:31
    Yes
    TheBorg
    +4
    "Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.” - Yoda
    yoda
  • socokid 2012/07/11 00:54:22
    Yes
    socokid
    +1
    Fear breeds consent, and is lost on no one anymore.
  • Joe Finsternis 2012/07/10 22:30:18
  • Latti I... Joe Fin... 2012/07/10 22:31:03
  • seattleman 2012/07/10 22:25:00
    Yes
    seattleman
    +3
    Absolutely. It can and it does.
  • Michael McFascist 2012/07/10 15:47:20 (edited)
    Yes
    Michael McFascist
    +4
    the two most dangerous kinds of people to be around : people who are paralyzed with fear and those who are completely devoid of it.



    I think fear is there to keep you alive but if you let it can cause you to freeze in your tracks, or cause you to make really bad mistakes.

    I have to go right now but there's more I want to say about this later on.
  • Johann Michael... 2012/07/11 05:39:39
    Johann
    +2
    So being fearless/post-fear is a bad thing? What if you got morals/values/logic then what?
  • Michael... Johann 2012/07/11 06:24:48 (edited)
    Michael McFascist
    +2
    No, what I am saying is that even with our big beautiful brains we never would have made it this far without fear. Look around you, everything human that you see, everything artificial that we have constructed, these cities...

    beautiful brains fear human artificial constructed cities

    beautiful brains fear human artificial constructed cities

    this art...

    beautiful brains fear human artificial constructed cities art

    these religions...

    beautiful brains fear human artificial constructed cities art religions

    and even science itself are the end products of our fear of death and our noble attempts to conquer or master it.
  • M. Aronson Michael... 2012/07/12 17:35:16
    M. Aronson
    +2
    Michael, you wrote: "...even science itself are the end products of our fear of death and our noble attempts to conquer or master it." So are you saying that our fears do NOT lead to erosion of logic? That our fears lead us to greatness instead?
  • Michael... M. Aronson 2012/07/13 06:22:27
    Michael McFascist
    +1
    I think it's a double edged sword. For instance, the mother of all fears, the fear of death when death is a very real possibility is perfectly rational, no organism can make it in this world without it. However, with human beings this fear of death can and does grow tentacles, it does gnaw away at us, it does give birth to millions of nameless, faceless irrational fears, and, millions more that we have named and catalogued. And what happens to someone when they're possessed by these irrational fears? They become paralyzed, they become neurotic, they experience a crisis of consciousness. Some may have to go into therapy. Some of them may climb up onto a tower and start shooting random people. Other more creative types might produce a great work of art in the process of exorcising their demons.

    But, I guess one of the things I'm trying to say is it seems to me that as we become more "civilized" we also become more adept at cultivating these irrational fears.

    I'm not saying that it's the fear that leads us to greatness, that's just what's there to keep us alive. It's the facing it, understanding it, and overcoming it that leads us into the heights...I reckon that's what I was trying to say. I hope that was semi coherent.
  • mk, Smartass Oracle 2012/07/10 13:53:43
  • BongRipper 2012/07/10 10:45:00
    Yes
    BongRipper
    +6
    Logic can erode fear
  • Brian ☮ R P ☮ 2012 ☮ 2012/07/10 10:40:04
    Yes
    Brian ☮ R P ☮ 2012 ☮
    +2
    Not only erode it, but completely eliminate it. Like mans fear of the unknown, creates gods to fill the void. Or fear of armed criminals, create gun laws that only disarm the lawful, as criminals don't care about laws. I could go on and on, but there are too many of those that fear common sense.
  • Latti I... Brian ☮... 2012/07/10 15:27:50
    Latti Ice Ganga Gangsta of PHAET
    +4
    Yup; fear of everyone doing drugs which creates the War on Drugs.
  • rustex782 2012/07/10 10:12:25
    Yes
    rustex782
    +1
    but maybe being without logic from the beginning is what creates the fear
  • LesWaggoner BN 1 2012/07/10 07:14:44
    Yes
    LesWaggoner BN 1
    +3
    Conservatives seem to live in fear and that is illogical.
  • Johann LesWagg... 2012/07/11 06:03:18 (edited)
    Johann
    +1
    They live on fear... they live on fear...
  • elptrek P.H.A.E.T.'s wizard 2012/07/10 07:00:44
    No
    elptrek P.H.A.E.T.'s wizard
    +2
    Only if we let it. all we have to fear is
  • S* 2012/07/10 06:08:48
    Yes
    S*
    +1
    why do you suppose the right touts Terrorists?
  • Nimitz 2012/07/10 05:55:40
    Yes
    Nimitz
    +2
    Definitely! Fear is the principal tool of tyrants.
  • Dodgerfan 2012/07/10 03:59:14
    Yes
    Dodgerfan
    +1
    I'm to skeerd to says whats Iz rally thanks.
  • tommyg - POTL- PWCM-JLA 2012/07/10 02:24:42
    Yes
    tommyg - POTL- PWCM-JLA
    +1
    Of course.

    Aren't emotions a wonderful thing? lol
  • Crimson 2012/07/10 02:09:02 (edited)
    Yes
    Crimson
    +2
    Fear is the ultimate dictator of the human mind.
  • Gwen 2012/07/10 01:20:02
    Yes
    Gwen
    +1
    What a deep thought.
  • Steve ☮ R ☮ P ☮ 2012 ☮ 2012/07/09 22:42:32
    Yes
    Steve ☮ R ☮ P ☮ 2012 ☮
    +2
    There are many things that can erode logic. Fear is probably the most powerful.
  • Tink123 2012/07/09 22:20:41
    Yes
    Tink123
    +6
    Of course. Fear is at its base irrational - reason / logic is its polar opposite.
  • Latti I... Tink123 2012/07/09 22:21:58
  • Tink123 Latti I... 2012/07/09 22:29:42
    Tink123
    +4
    Paraphrasing Mark Twain "...emotion, when sincere, is involuntary." I may have that wrong, can't remember if he was referring to love or emotion in general, but you get the gist of it.

    He nailed that. Emotion is itself irrational, without thought - logic must be the natural opposite. Good question ;)
  • Latti I... Tink123 2012/07/09 22:31:39
    Latti Ice Ganga Gangsta of PHAET
    +5
    Thank you T and good answer :-).
  • Tink123 Latti I... 2012/07/09 23:12:19
    Tink123
    +3
    Thanks :)
  • littleb... Tink123 2012/07/10 01:51:42
    littlebuffalo55TBA
    +2
    No doubt he was a great witty philosopher who usually had many meanings in just about anything he said. So T you're covered and I think he'd smile!
  • Tink123 littleb... 2012/07/10 11:10:12
    Tink123
    +2
    That he was, he was a fountain of principle. lol Thanks, that's a pretty big compliment - I appreciate it :)
  • littleb... Tink123 2012/07/10 19:24:05 (edited)
    littlebuffalo55TBA
    +2
    You're well read it's very refreshing around here! And you're welcome!
  • Tink123 littleb... 2012/07/10 20:05:22
    Tink123
    +2
    Thank you and likewise :)
  • hayesml47 2012/07/09 22:14:35
    Yes
    hayesml47
    +1
    Fear erodes logical or rational thoughts of any kind! The greater the fear the more likely the thinking to be in a panic mode and in panic mode all is usually lost!
  • cheshirewayne 2012/07/09 22:04:22
    Yes
    cheshirewayne
    +2
    We see it used a lot to do so.

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