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Boy Scouts are considering lifting the ban on gays. Is that a good or bad idea?

Drue-AFCL 2013/01/29 00:36:20
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  • Zuggi 2013/01/29 04:50:45 (edited)
    Good idea
    Zuggi
    +37
    As an Eagle Scout, I'll be incredibly proud of the BSA for making the right choice. Scouting should never be about discrimination.

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  • gracious43 2013/02/24 07:01:21
    Bad idea
    gracious43
    +3
    The boyscouts will become a meat market for pederasts.
  • Jaiheena Star 2013/02/18 19:36:33
  • taylordoesntdeserve 2013/02/12 04:02:14
    Good idea
    taylordoesntdeserve
    +1
    Homosexuality is not contagious.
  • Jane 2013/02/03 14:57:47
    Good idea
    Jane
    And while they are at it they might want to stop allowing child molesters as leaders.
  • JustBeingAtPeace 2013/02/01 20:35:44
    Good idea
    JustBeingAtPeace
    Time indeed very good.
  • Captamerica 2013/01/31 06:52:51
    Bad idea
    Captamerica
    +3
    As an Eagle scout I am very concerned! So much for "morally straight!"
  • joseph ... Captame... 2013/01/31 23:51:53
  • boognis... Captame... 2013/02/01 07:20:28
    boognish989
    +3
    so you're saying that bigotry is 'morally straight'?
  • Captame... boognis... 2013/02/01 15:21:30
    Captamerica
    +2
    Nice try, do you think homosexual activity is "morally straight"? Guess we have different Bibles. Do you think Joe's comment sounds a little perverted? Hey, we're all havin' fun here, just wish some could stop the sexual innuendos.
  • boognis... Captame... 2013/02/01 16:57:08
    boognish989
    +1
    do you oppose all of the biblical abominations or just cherry pick? i'd like to see anyone try to live according to biblical law. there are several things that the bible forbids, using the exact same language as the prohibition on homosexuality. if you do any of them, and i can guarantee you do, you are as 'vile' as a homosexual and should be subject to the same bigotry that you display towards them. shouldn't 'christians' follow the teachings of christ, not bronze age hebrew law? this is the entirety of what jesus said about homosexuality: '_________'.
  • Captame... boognis... 2013/02/01 17:06:49
    Captamerica
    +1
    Wait, we are all sinners, saved by grace! Homosexual activity is a sin, but so is gluttony. When asked if I believe homosexuals will be in heaven, I always reply, "I certainly hope so."

    I agree I "am as 'vile' as a homosexual" but I resent your bigotry toward us. If you're so perfect, maybe you can throw stones, but I suspect not. The only "perfect" man that ever lived was crucified, I don't see anyone building crosses for either one of us! Keep bloggin' and God bless us both!
  • jeane boognis... 2013/02/24 07:17:28
    jeane
    +2
    Jesus stated nothing about pederasty, bestiality or necrophilia.

    ◄ 1 Corinthians 6:9 ►

    Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
  • dogmeatib Captame... 2013/02/02 02:20:28
    dogmeatib
    +1
    So you're fine with scout masters involved in heterosexual activity with the scouts? I would think any sexual activity would be unacceptable. Why do you equate sexual orientation to sex? Do you assume opposite sex individuals are constantly having sex with anyone and everyone around them? Are they constantly sharing their sexual exploits with the kids in their care?

    I would argue that anyone affiliated with the scouts would be expected to behave appropriately so sexual orientation would be irrelevant given that they wouldn't be involved in sexual activity or sexual discussions whether straight or same sex oriented. Why do you seem to assume that gay = sex fiend? Did you and your scout master discuss sex? I would assume not, I don't recall any such discussions when I was in the scouts, so why would you assume that a same sex oriented individual would talk about (let alone engage in) sexual activity?
  • Captame... dogmeatib 2013/02/02 02:44:36
    Captamerica
    +2
    No, sexual activities have not place in boy scouts! Any yes, I did have an encounter with a gay scout leader, thanks for askin'!

    I had a "gay" scout leader who tried to "entice" me to play with him, after having me over to mow his lawn. He even offered to get me a hooker my age to "join in the fun". I refused, reported it to the Troop leadership (who didn't do anything, but he stayed away from me from then on). He did get my best friend at the time to "enjoy the hooker". My friend stopped coming around me (also), and became queer as anyone I've ever seen. He died (of AIDS) years later, while I was deployed overseas.

    I don't want openly gay men with my boys. I appreciated DADT while I was in the USMC. I knew men in my unit were probably gay, but they could not demonstrate their perversion openly!

    No, I don't "assume that gay = sex fiend", I just personally believe gay sex is perverted. As a TPer, I also believe in limited government, I would never want government to dictate what you do in your own home! Thanks again for askin'!
  • dogmeatib Captame... 2013/02/04 01:56:48
    dogmeatib
    +1
    You do realize that most sexual assaults have nothing to do with sexual orientation, don't you? Also, female victims outnumber male victims by a large number. For someone who claims not to care about homosexuals and to not assume that they are sex fiends, you seem to consistently contradict yourself and present same sex individuals in that way.

    You seem more than a bit oblivious to my point, sexual activity and discussions have no place in scouting, therefore the orientation of a member of the scouts (or scoutmaster for that matter) should have nothing to do with their membership. You seem to assume that a same sex individual would be unable to avoid talking about or participating in sexual activities which again suggests that you believe orientation = some sort of obsession.

    You also seem to be more than a bit obsessed with the "perversion" you purport to oppose. Why did you "need" DADT? Data shows rather clearly that gays tend to commit far fewer sexual assaults, what evidence do you have that any of them would have made advances towards you w/o DADT? Also, when I was in the military, sexual activity while on duty wasn't allowed, did something change under DADT where sexual activity was allowed on duty? If not, then what gave you the idea that same sex individuals could...



    You do realize that most sexual assaults have nothing to do with sexual orientation, don't you? Also, female victims outnumber male victims by a large number. For someone who claims not to care about homosexuals and to not assume that they are sex fiends, you seem to consistently contradict yourself and present same sex individuals in that way.

    You seem more than a bit oblivious to my point, sexual activity and discussions have no place in scouting, therefore the orientation of a member of the scouts (or scoutmaster for that matter) should have nothing to do with their membership. You seem to assume that a same sex individual would be unable to avoid talking about or participating in sexual activities which again suggests that you believe orientation = some sort of obsession.

    You also seem to be more than a bit obsessed with the "perversion" you purport to oppose. Why did you "need" DADT? Data shows rather clearly that gays tend to commit far fewer sexual assaults, what evidence do you have that any of them would have made advances towards you w/o DADT? Also, when I was in the military, sexual activity while on duty wasn't allowed, did something change under DADT where sexual activity was allowed on duty? If not, then what gave you the idea that same sex individuals couldn't control themselves without DADT, but would have been all over you without it?

    How many gay people do you know? You seem to make a lot of rather ridiculous assumptions about same sex oriented people that simply speaking with one for a few minutes is likely to dispel your mythology. I've known a number of same sex individuals over the years. None of them was obsessed by sex, none of them hit on me beyond a casual reference to going out to dinner, I had a few far more aggressive women that didn't seem to care that I was married than ever had gay men make any sort of advances.

    It has been my experience that TPers tend to be some of the least knowledgeable individuals when it comes to government and, while they're very much in favor of deregulating markets, they also tend to lean towards legislating "morality" and want their "goodies" but don't want to pay for them.
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  • Captame... dogmeatib 2013/02/04 02:11:05
    Captamerica
    +2
    The only time I saw the government successfully "legislate morality" was in the late 50s, when IKE desegregated the schools! Segregation was wrong, and forced integration worked, at least where I lived!

    That said, I am against government trying to control personal behavior! DADT worked for me because our gay comrades in arms hid their sexual misconduct from the rest of us. If you been it, you know what I'm talking about. Circle jerks between the racks or in the showers were required to be carefully hidden. I personally believe homosexuality is a sin but that we are all saved by grace! Just keep it out of sight (whether you want to call it perversion or not)!

    Finally, what "goodies" do TPers want from the government? You can't name any, can ya! Just askin"!
  • dogmeatib Captame... 2013/02/05 14:12:01
    dogmeatib
    +1
    Actually, the courts desegregated the schools, it's known as "Brown vs. the Board of Education...," you might want to look it up. Eisenhower did support desegregation and the civil rights movement, basically the last time the Republican party was on the correct side of that issue. You might want to take up this discussion with the TP members of congress and the various state legislatures, they haven't been so great with their efforts to create jobs, or cutting spending, but they've been rather impressive with their efforts to regulate female reproductive rights, push religion in public schools, push religion in science classes, and waste money trying to rig elections and test welfare recipients for drug use despite the failure of programs like Florida's.

    Again, you equate gay to "sex fiend." Sorry, your anecdotal "evidence" is nonsense, you must think everyone, gay or straight, just wants to get into your pants. I don't recall any "circle jerks" at any time I was in the military and my service was all pre-DADT. The more you talk about your "protection" from advances by same sex individuals, the more I get the sense that you're making excuses for them not being interested in you. You seem very hung up on sexual advances that didn't happen, almost obsessive.

    Social Security ...
    Actually, the courts desegregated the schools, it's known as "Brown vs. the Board of Education...," you might want to look it up. Eisenhower did support desegregation and the civil rights movement, basically the last time the Republican party was on the correct side of that issue. You might want to take up this discussion with the TP members of congress and the various state legislatures, they haven't been so great with their efforts to create jobs, or cutting spending, but they've been rather impressive with their efforts to regulate female reproductive rights, push religion in public schools, push religion in science classes, and waste money trying to rig elections and test welfare recipients for drug use despite the failure of programs like Florida's.

    Again, you equate gay to "sex fiend." Sorry, your anecdotal "evidence" is nonsense, you must think everyone, gay or straight, just wants to get into your pants. I don't recall any "circle jerks" at any time I was in the military and my service was all pre-DADT. The more you talk about your "protection" from advances by same sex individuals, the more I get the sense that you're making excuses for them not being interested in you. You seem very hung up on sexual advances that didn't happen, almost obsessive.

    Social Security and Medicare are two examples, VA medical benefits another. The latter two are especially amusing given the anti-socialism nonsense of the general Teabagger movement. Also subsidies for various business ventures have been well documented. TP politicians decry the "socialized medicine" (*guffaw*) of the Affordable Care Act, yet they're the ones who complained that it took a month for their congressional health care coverage to kick in and I have yet to see a single one of them opt out of health care and pensions provided by their government positions. TP politicians try to block program after program, but then line up to get the funding from those programs even after successfully cutting their budgets. Analysis of the "Tea Party Budget" found that it would have increased the annual deficit by 5% because what the organization actually agreed to cut amounted to far less than the tax cuts they wanted. Teabagger politics is full of examples of suppression of people's rights, legislation dedicated to policing morality, hypocrisy when it comes to government spending and government services, and utter idiocy when it comes to economic and fiscal policy. There is a reason Bobby Jindal said that the Republican party needs to stop being the party of "stupid," that reason? The Tea Party
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  • Captame... dogmeatib 2013/02/05 14:46:38
    Captamerica
    +2
    Dems are quick to claim credit for desegregation, just pointing out it took a Repub to make it happen. Minorities sure seemed to better under Bush than the current administration, didn’t they. BO doesn’t seem to care much about what is happening to blacks in this country, does he? Look at results, not media spin! Based on results, the Repubs seem to care much more that the Dems!

    The TPers (along with some brave Repubs) seem to be pretty good at stopping those horrible “stimuli” bills, don’t you think? Think what you want, but don’t try to tell me the TPers haven’t been effective in cutting spending (see WI, OH, or MI). Governors have put thru great “right to work” legislation to help out middle class workers get jobs, or do you remember?

    We have been able to curtail spending on contraceptives and abortions (see Rick Perry and “Planned Parenthood”). Hey, we aren’t against them, just don’t believe we should have to pay for them!

    Apparently you served in a different age, are you sorry you missed out (on the “circle jerks”)? Live with it, and let’s keep Marines doing what they do best (breaking things and killing people)!

    I disagree with all kinds of government subsidies, “earmarks” and “assistance” programs. But if they are handing them out, I will certainly get my share. You are a ...



    Dems are quick to claim credit for desegregation, just pointing out it took a Repub to make it happen. Minorities sure seemed to better under Bush than the current administration, didn’t they. BO doesn’t seem to care much about what is happening to blacks in this country, does he? Look at results, not media spin! Based on results, the Repubs seem to care much more that the Dems!

    The TPers (along with some brave Repubs) seem to be pretty good at stopping those horrible “stimuli” bills, don’t you think? Think what you want, but don’t try to tell me the TPers haven’t been effective in cutting spending (see WI, OH, or MI). Governors have put thru great “right to work” legislation to help out middle class workers get jobs, or do you remember?

    We have been able to curtail spending on contraceptives and abortions (see Rick Perry and “Planned Parenthood”). Hey, we aren’t against them, just don’t believe we should have to pay for them!

    Apparently you served in a different age, are you sorry you missed out (on the “circle jerks”)? Live with it, and let’s keep Marines doing what they do best (breaking things and killing people)!

    I disagree with all kinds of government subsidies, “earmarks” and “assistance” programs. But if they are handing them out, I will certainly get my share. You are a fool to miss out, no matter what you think about the program, wouldn’t you?

    No doubt some within the TP movement want to restrict certain rights; it’s a diverse grassroots movement. But to advocate government prohibitions as a TPer is hypocritical, as least in my everso humble opinion! What do you think?

    I am a proud supporter of the Tea Party because I believe in more personal freedom by limiting the size and power of government. What’s your problem with that? Thanks for statin' reasons for you opinions, it shows intelligence not typical of liberals today!
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  • dogmeatib Captame... 2013/02/06 00:57:21 (edited)
    dogmeatib
    +1
    Actually, I'm not a "Dem," so your first claim is false. Second, you might want to look at Truman desegregating the armed forces in 1948 prior to claiming that Eisenhower "made it happen," second claim is also false. The majority on the court in '54 were FDR & Truman appointees & Ike was rather displeased with how liberal Warren turned out to be, so congrats, clean sweep with the false arguments. Given that median household incomes went down 10 of the first 11 years of the 2000s tells me that neither party has done much to help anyone, so silly partisan finger pointing is rather meaningless. By the way, I happen to like Eisenhower, consider him integral to federal involvement in Civil Rights, but don't pretend that his positions prior to 1960 reflect those of the Republican party since the southern strategy in the 60s.

    Actually the stimuli bills are better for the current economy than the austerity measures the TP folks *claim* to advocate. Look at the countries that are in the greatest economic trouble, most of them went to austerity measures rather than stimulus. Look at the countries that are doing better, the reverse is true. Also, the "right to work" laws are horrendous for worker rights, look at the states that have them and you'll see their unemployment rate is at o...









    Actually, I'm not a "Dem," so your first claim is false. Second, you might want to look at Truman desegregating the armed forces in 1948 prior to claiming that Eisenhower "made it happen," second claim is also false. The majority on the court in '54 were FDR & Truman appointees & Ike was rather displeased with how liberal Warren turned out to be, so congrats, clean sweep with the false arguments. Given that median household incomes went down 10 of the first 11 years of the 2000s tells me that neither party has done much to help anyone, so silly partisan finger pointing is rather meaningless. By the way, I happen to like Eisenhower, consider him integral to federal involvement in Civil Rights, but don't pretend that his positions prior to 1960 reflect those of the Republican party since the southern strategy in the 60s.

    Actually the stimuli bills are better for the current economy than the austerity measures the TP folks *claim* to advocate. Look at the countries that are in the greatest economic trouble, most of them went to austerity measures rather than stimulus. Look at the countries that are doing better, the reverse is true. Also, the "right to work" laws are horrendous for worker rights, look at the states that have them and you'll see their unemployment rate is at or above the national average and their median incomes are lower than the national average. If right to work laws are for workers rights and to protect workers, then why did Michigan leave the police and firemen out of their law? Why do they hate policemen and women and firefighters? Finally, you mention Wisconsin, do you realize that unemployment in WI flattened out and went up under Walker? It was dropping a tenth of a point a month prior to Walker entering office, giving him the benefit of the first six months, his average in his first fifteen months was .04 to the .10 of his predecessor. In '12 unemployment actually went up while it was going down nationally.

    You appear to have no idea what Planned Parenthood does or what any of the idiotic moral legislation that the TP legislatures have been involved in. 97% of its budget goes towards healthcare services to low income individuals and has nothing to do with abortions, none of the state and federal funding goes towards abortions. Those provisions have been in place for upwards of twenty years. The assault on Planned Parenthood is both moral legislation, which disproves the false claim that TP don't try to legislate morality *AND* harms low income individuals, which reinforces the selfish hypocritical nature of the Teabagger movement in general. Also, I noticed that you missed the invasive ultrasounds, the efforts to redefine when "life" begins (two weeks before conception???) and the efforts to define "legitimate" and "illegitimate" rape. I'm certain that was just an oversight.

    *chuckle* It is amusing when an apparent homophobe tries to imply that someone who isn't homophobic is interested in same-sex activities. See, implying that I was gay would have an impact and might upset me if I was a bigot. Given that I'm not, it becomes a laughable attempt to "insult" me, it makes you look rather silly; why not call me whatever gender, racist, or religious slights you feel are most insulting as well, they wont bother me because I'm not a racist, misogynist, or religious bigot any more than I'm a homophobe. Your attempted slight says much more about you than it does me. Regarding service in the military, I'm open to letting any citizen serve, I don't particularly care what gender they are or what gender they are interested it, let it go and let them do what they do best.

    When it comes to programs, you simply prove your hypocrisy. I don't have a problem paying taxes, I recognize you get what you pay for. If you want a top-notch educational system, you have to pay for it. Same for roads, infrastructure, law enforcement, and other services. I don't have a problem with programs that educate people, reduce crime, increase quality of life, and promote opportunities. I don't have a problem paying for equipment that keeps service members safe. It is quite hypocritical that you're willing to benefit from programs but don't want to pay for them and wish to deny them to others. That you claimed I couldn't come up with any "goodies" that you want and then unabashedly admit that you do want those goodies suggests you haven't really thought much about how things work.

    I have no use for the Tea Party movement because, while they talk of freedoms and limited government, they present themselves as hypocritical whiners who seem more ticked off that a Democrat won the presidency and worse yet a non-white won the presidency than anything else. Most of the state legislatures that went over to the TP Republicans focused on laws that gutted rights, targeted women for moral legislation, tried to disenfranchise legitimate voters, and generally made a mess of reasonable governance. The "magic" formula where tax cuts without spending cuts is a viable budget balancing strategy is rampant in TP legislatures, the actual result? Budget chaos, massive cuts to education and programs that help the poor, tax cuts that favor businesses when investment capital is already available and not being invested.

    Unsound politics, unsound fiscal policy, unsound monetary policy, and utterly divorced from reality ideas of governance. As someone who teaches economics and political science, the Tea Party movement gives me the creepy crawlies with how utterly uninformed and divorced from reality they are.
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  • Captame... dogmeatib 2013/02/06 01:38:37
    Captamerica
    +1
    First, did I call you a Dem? Second, I thought we were talking about “Brown vs Brd. of Edu.” Finally, the courts can say what they want, but the president has to back them (just ask Andrew Jackson). Thanks IKE! I do get tired of you trying to put the “southern strategy” one the GOP! The GOP has tried to represent all working Americans, it’s the Dems that have forgotten the “working folk.”

    The stimuli bills can’t work, you can’t take money from those who are prospering and give it to those who don’t. It never has worked, no matter how you want to twist stats! Also “RTW” laws help workers by increasing access to employment. Labor Unions are one of the last racist holdouts, they need to go away! Texas is a RTW state, and doing quite well, thank you! The bloodsucking MI & WI public employees unions were bankrupting those states! You’re assertion that PP is 97% healthcare services is cute, but doesn’t hold water for folks that can read and speak in whole sentences! Look I don’t have a problem with abortion, I just don’t want to pay for others'!

    I don’t remember calling any names, that is primarily the liberal leaning progressives here and elsewhere. The terms you mentioned were used on me for being a TPer! Check it out!

    I am not an anarchist, and believe in a progressive tax system whe...
    First, did I call you a Dem? Second, I thought we were talking about “Brown vs Brd. of Edu.” Finally, the courts can say what they want, but the president has to back them (just ask Andrew Jackson). Thanks IKE! I do get tired of you trying to put the “southern strategy” one the GOP! The GOP has tried to represent all working Americans, it’s the Dems that have forgotten the “working folk.”

    The stimuli bills can’t work, you can’t take money from those who are prospering and give it to those who don’t. It never has worked, no matter how you want to twist stats! Also “RTW” laws help workers by increasing access to employment. Labor Unions are one of the last racist holdouts, they need to go away! Texas is a RTW state, and doing quite well, thank you! The bloodsucking MI & WI public employees unions were bankrupting those states! You’re assertion that PP is 97% healthcare services is cute, but doesn’t hold water for folks that can read and speak in whole sentences! Look I don’t have a problem with abortion, I just don’t want to pay for others'!

    I don’t remember calling any names, that is primarily the liberal leaning progressives here and elsewhere. The terms you mentioned were used on me for being a TPer! Check it out!

    I am not an anarchist, and believe in a progressive tax system where those who prosper most pay more. But the private sector can do so much better (ie Education), it’s time to stop the wasteful spending! Just because I don’t support a program doesn’t mean I won’t use it if it’s passed. I’m not stupid! Finally your aspersions on the TP are foolish, we want limited government, and as TPers, are not going to advocate more power to government for “laws that gutted rights” etc. You listen to too much bias media with their lies and half truths!
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  • dogmeatib Captame... 2013/02/06 03:05:08
    dogmeatib
    +1
    Wow, you really need to do some research because you honestly don't know what the heck you're talking about:

    1) The southern strategy was Nixon's 60's plan to use race to obtain southern conservative voters. Former RNC Chairman admitted it was both racist and a bad idea. Look it up.

    2) Stimulus does work, it's why both parties implement aspects of stimulative fiscal policy when they're in power; fiscal policy based on Keynes. Look up:

    Depression, The Great,
    -and/or-
    FDR, fiscal policies.

    You might find a little information about it.

    3)Don't simply make a claim about RTW laws, especially an unfounded one. Look up the data I pointed out, you'll see it is accurate, knowing that will make you look less foolish. You also don't explain why, if Right To Work laws are so awesome, Michigan left police and fire unions out of the law. If they're so great, why did the legislature keep those workers from benefiting?

    4) Texas is your example of RTW laws working? Seriously? Wow, median household income below national average; individual income below national average; median home value, below national average, poverty rate well above national average; college graduate rate, well below national average, teen pregnancy rate above national average; infant mortality rate, above national av...













    Wow, you really need to do some research because you honestly don't know what the heck you're talking about:

    1) The southern strategy was Nixon's 60's plan to use race to obtain southern conservative voters. Former RNC Chairman admitted it was both racist and a bad idea. Look it up.

    2) Stimulus does work, it's why both parties implement aspects of stimulative fiscal policy when they're in power; fiscal policy based on Keynes. Look up:

    Depression, The Great,
    -and/or-
    FDR, fiscal policies.

    You might find a little information about it.

    3)Don't simply make a claim about RTW laws, especially an unfounded one. Look up the data I pointed out, you'll see it is accurate, knowing that will make you look less foolish. You also don't explain why, if Right To Work laws are so awesome, Michigan left police and fire unions out of the law. If they're so great, why did the legislature keep those workers from benefiting?

    4) Texas is your example of RTW laws working? Seriously? Wow, median household income below national average; individual income below national average; median home value, below national average, poverty rate well above national average; college graduate rate, well below national average, teen pregnancy rate above national average; infant mortality rate, above national average; the list goes on and on, and on. If Texas is your dream for the future of the U.S. in a right to work Utopia, please, secede.

    5) Look up the data on Planned Parenthood, because it receives public funding, it is public record. The number is accurate. Again, you'll look less foolish. Regarding public funding for abortions, federal employees aren't even able to use their health insurance to pay for abortions (so much for personal freedoms), the idea that public money is going for abortions is utterly laughable. What color is the sky on your planet? Again, well founded, legal precedent, Hyde amendment, 1977, abortions only covered using federal funding in cases of rape, incest, or if the woman's life is in jeopardy. A few states cover abortion, but most only due so in cases of rape and incest, some don't even cover it if the woman's life is in jeopardy.

    6) I didn't say you called anyone any names, I said you implied, key difference. Also, I wasn't taking offense, I found it amusing and offered to let you actually call me whatever you wanted in the context of racism, sexism, etc. Reading comprehension is your friend, give it a try, it wont hurt.

    7) The only terms I used for Tea Party/Tea Bagger were the terms the movement used for themselves. Not my fault if Tea Baggers didn't like learning that there was another meaning for the phrase.

    8) Public education actually works quite well. When you account for poverty the US jumps to #3 in the world. Where we fail is in the very programs that the Tea Party wants to cut, IE programs that help the poor. It's the same reason why urban school districts are generally the ones in the greatest trouble, they're dealing with the kids that need the most help, often with the least resources and/or with resources actively redirected away from the classrooms.

    Unless you're talking about pure private schools, which isn't feasible or reasonable to expect to replace the public system, private education in the US is far worse than public; a sad fact that the TP membership again appears to be oblivious. Look up the data on charter and voucher schools, 80% of them are as bad or worse than the schools they were designed to replace. Think about that for a second, 80% of them are as bad or worse than the worst 40% of public schools. I've seen administrators for charter schools who wouldn't have been qualified to teach at a public school (let alone run the place). The "teachers" would generally have been lucky to work as substitutes, and then only in the states with the lowest certification requirements. I was offered the job as principal at a charter school before I'd even finished my principal's cert.

    9)What is with your grand arm-waving to brush away the numerous well documented efforts by TP legislatures to shred rights? Why do you assume my source is "biased media?" Is that your chicken cross to scare away all "bad magic?" Try looking at the actual legislative activities. There are a number of search engines that let you look at the actual text of legislation, both federal and state (as well as local). The list is long, bizarre, and often offensive. The AZ law establishing life beginning two weeks prior to conception, the Florida attempt to establish a poll tax, the dozen state legislatures that passed laws to disenfranchise legitimate voters (shot down by the courts one and all), the VA bill that would have required a woman desiring an abortion to go through an invasive ultrasound, a similar law in Texas requiring ultrasounds and doctors to effectively try to talk their patients out of obtaining an abortion. The Kansas bill that would have required doctors to lie to their patients about abortion.

    10) Finally, I love how you simply drop a line of argument when it is shown that your position is false. Pretty common tactic, you fling argument after argument, then, when shown to be wrong you either simply restate your falsified argument, or you grab a handful of additional false arguments and fling those. At times referred to as a "Gish Gallop."
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  • John.J.... Captame... 2013/02/05 19:23:57
    John.J.J.Stevens
    let me ask you this .. did you have a problem with male female fraternization in sight ? Just asking .. if you didn't then you are a hypocrite. as for the TPers .. well bringing religion in to the government but only Christian / Jewish beliefs for a start which abridges the First Amendment, Oh way dogmeatib actually beat me to the punch on that and several other items. Now Eisenhower is my all time favorite president however while he supported the deregulation he didn't do it .. the courts did. After Eisenhower - when JFK got close to MLK - well my party (republican ) welcomed the KKK in with open arms ( they started off in the Democratic party ) at that point we started our downward spiral. I am still republican but in the way the Eisenhower was .. he would actually be ashamed of our party now.
  • Captame... John.J.... 2013/02/05 19:39:38
    Captamerica
    +2
    Yes, I have a problem with PDA (Public Display of Affection), get a room! I don't understand your reference about,"bringing religion in to the government." What are you talking about? Past history is irrelevant, we live in today, so what's the problem with being conservative (a TPer or a GOPer)?
  • John.J.... Captame... 2013/02/05 19:15:42
    John.J.J.Stevens
    +1
    interesting you found one of the rarities statistically most pedophiles are straight. Sorry just going from the number of Pedophiles that there are in the system (sex offenders lists ) and their sexual preferences. I am sorry that you had that experience however statistically you are an anomaly. I have a hard time with ANYONE pushing their sexual preferences and practices on to children, be they gay or straight, if they do that they should be kicked to the curb.

    Next contrary to (apparently) popular belief our government was not based on the Bible - many of our founding fathers were Deists however there were two Druids among their number, and there is a reason why the First Amendment is written the way it is - they wanted NO Religion to be raised above any other. (this is in reference to your comment about having different Bibles) As a matter of fact several of the over 6000 religions do not only condone same sex pairings but see them as holy (example Cherokee often members of those pairings would become Shaman ) and as part of their religions are protected under that First Amendment. I am not saying that they should be allowed in to the BSA as that is a private organization, club if you will, I am just stating a few little tidbits.

    Are you aware that the aids virus affec...

    interesting you found one of the rarities statistically most pedophiles are straight. Sorry just going from the number of Pedophiles that there are in the system (sex offenders lists ) and their sexual preferences. I am sorry that you had that experience however statistically you are an anomaly. I have a hard time with ANYONE pushing their sexual preferences and practices on to children, be they gay or straight, if they do that they should be kicked to the curb.

    Next contrary to (apparently) popular belief our government was not based on the Bible - many of our founding fathers were Deists however there were two Druids among their number, and there is a reason why the First Amendment is written the way it is - they wanted NO Religion to be raised above any other. (this is in reference to your comment about having different Bibles) As a matter of fact several of the over 6000 religions do not only condone same sex pairings but see them as holy (example Cherokee often members of those pairings would become Shaman ) and as part of their religions are protected under that First Amendment. I am not saying that they should be allowed in to the BSA as that is a private organization, club if you will, I am just stating a few little tidbits.

    Are you aware that the aids virus affects homosexuals differently than heterosexuals even if they both contracted it through sexual contact ? - this indicates that there are physiological/biochemical differences between homosexual and heterosexual individuals, which could very well mean they were made that way not indoctrinated.

    I personally find hate speech to be a perversion unfortunately it is one that too many people practice far to openly.
    (more)
  • Captame... John.J.... 2013/02/05 19:22:45
    Captamerica
    +1
    Thanks for your caring, hey everyone should be able to to whatever they want in the privacy of their own home.
  • jeane John.J.... 2013/02/24 07:21:05
    jeane
    Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.

    A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin.[Others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists
  • Chris- Demon of the PHAET 2013/01/31 05:50:43
    Good idea
    Chris- Demon of the PHAET
    +3
    They're a private organization and can do as they please.

    My personal opinion is "good idea".
  • FredtheRapist 2013/01/31 05:43:23
    Good idea
    FredtheRapist
    +4
    there is not anything wrong with gays.
  • Captame... Fredthe... 2013/01/31 06:55:07
    Captamerica
    +2
    Aaah Yeah! I wouldn't call them "morally straight", would you?
  • Feria~B... Captame... 2013/01/31 11:12:22
    Feria~Badass of PHAET~
    +5
    Not all straight people are moral. Morals are not dictated by sexuality.

    Who are you to decide what's moral for everyone?
  • Captame... Feria~B... 2013/01/31 11:49:07
    Captamerica
    +1
    My personal guide is the Bible. What's your's? Find something, the Koran, teachings of Buddha, etc. Except for the demonic, they all define perversion as homosexual activity! And yes heterosexuals can be sexually deviant. But homosexual activity starts as a deviant activity!
  • joseph ... Captame... 2013/01/31 18:45:08
  • Captame... joseph ... 2013/01/31 23:17:22
    Captamerica
    +2
    God made his opinion very clear at Sodom and Gomorrah!
  • joseph ... Captame... 2013/01/31 23:52:13
  • jeane joseph ... 2013/02/24 07:23:07
    jeane
    +1
    LOL - Mitzvot for Hebrews in a covenant relationship with God. Christians are not now nor have they ever been under the law.
  • joseph ... jeane 2013/02/26 00:15:26 (edited)
  • jeane joseph ... 2013/02/26 04:52:05
    jeane
    Hebrews and their God have nothing to do with you. Fortunately Jesus Christ in the New Testament reaffirm many of the Old Testament Laws. The choice to obey or not is yours.
  • joseph ... jeane 2013/02/26 20:02:51
  • boognis... Captame... 2013/02/01 07:24:52
    boognish989
    +2
    wasn't that where the only 'righteous' man in the whole city offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped? seems like the perfect story to glean moral teachings from.
  • Captame... boognis... 2013/02/01 15:25:37
    Captamerica
    +2
    Just pointing out their perversions (he men wanted the (male) angels instead of his daughters). The morals of scripture are absolutes (timeless and unchanging). Just tryin' to help!
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