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Blackwater USA, do you agree with the use of mercenary troops by the United States?

Ihr Hase ~ Radix Libertas 2008/02/13 05:20:15
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I know there are mixed feelings, that these are former U.S. soldiers and that to insult them would be to insult the military, but these are mercenary troops and the saying "Loyalty to the coin is loyalty none the less" is faulty as an anonymous framer of the Constitution said....

Under every government the dernier [Fr. last, or final] resort of the people, is an appeal to the sword; whether to defend themselves against the open attacks of a foreign enemy, or to check the insidious encroachments of domestic foes. Whenever a people... entrust the defense of their country to a regular, standing army, composed of mercenaries, the power of that country will remain under the direction of the most wealthy citizens.
- Anonymous Framer of US Constitution

Jeremy Scahill is the author of the new book "Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army." On yesterday's broadcast, we talked about how new lawsuits and congressional efforts are challenging Blackwater's role as the Bush administration's leading private security force, from Iraq to Afghanistan to New Orleans.


http://researchris.blogspot.com Jeremy Scahill talks about how Erik Prince started Blackwater along with alot of other great info of how Blackwater mingles with gov't.


Erik Prince's CNN Interview...




House Hearing on Blackwater Security Firm in Iraq, October 2, 2007



http://www.infowars.com/index.html

Blackwater Training US Police
Wayne Madsen Report | October 15, 2007

The mercenary firm Blackwater USA is well known for the controversy involving its "shoot first, ask no questions" policy in Iraq. It is also known that Louisiana's Department of Homeland Security contracted with Blackwater to provide public law enforcement services in New Orleans following hurricane Katrina. Blackwater is also planning to establish regional training centers in Potrero, California and Mount Carroll, Illinois, billed as Blackwater West and Blackwater North, respectively.

These training centers, in addition to Blackwater's Lodge and Training Center in Moyock, North Carolina -- Blackwater East -- and a possible fourth rumored to be slated for the Pacific Northwest -- Blackwater Northwest -- may result in the establishment of a network of Blackwater-trained police, sheriffs, and other police units around the country. Given Blackwater's dismal record on human rights and brutality, this spells trouble for civilian control of police and paramilitary forces in the United States, from major metropolitan areas to small rural towns.

On October 14, the Washington Post ran a story, which included photographs from Blackwater's Moyock training center. However, what was most intriguing was a photograph of a police and military patch board at Blackwater's headquarters that indicated the police agencies that have sent their officers to Moyock for training.

Blackwater is secretive about its non-federal, as well as its foreign clients, which the Post pointed out includes Jordan, Azerbaijan, and Burkina Faso, but a WMR inspection of the photograph of the police agencies has yielded the following list of agencies that have used Blackwater for training:

1. Iowa Department of Natural Resources

2. Maricopa County, Arizona Sheriff's Department

3. Matthews, North Carolina Police

4. Atlanta Police

5. Chillicothe, Ohio Police

6. Charleston, South Carolina Police

7. Port Chester, NY Police

8. Highland, Indiana Police

9. Unalaska, Alaska Police

10. Metropolitan Washington, DC Police

11. Charlottesville, Virginia Police

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Top Opinion

  • roger 2008/02/13 11:56:49
    No
    roger
    +9
    Being ex-military...mercenaries are against the law...the reason merc's do what they do is for $$$$...and if one checks out their loyalities they'll find that they will sell out a benefactor for more $$$$$$ and become powerful

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  • Shadow13 2009/04/07 02:27:54
    No
    Shadow13
    +1
    They are ex military. They sold their honor for their pieces of silver. A person can only serve one cause. Their's is to themselves and their own gain, not the nation's best interest.
  • Ihr Has... Shadow13 2009/04/07 09:39:30
  • WannaBeRSC the Contrarian SOB 2009/03/12 02:12:58
    No
    WannaBeRSC the Contrarian SOB
    +1
    Nope, not this side of hell.
  • santa6642 2009/01/10 16:24:18
    Yes
    santa6642
    We do not have a standing army, and unless we bring back the draft we need all the military people we can gret..
  • Jon 2008/11/04 06:12:54
    No
    Jon
    If they were used by the USA in USA, I would in deed, agree with it. But to use them in other countries? No, I don't.
  • W.J.S. 2008/07/31 16:49:46
    No
    W.J.S.
    +2
    All great empires used mercenaries before they collapsed!
  • WannaBe... W.J.S. 2009/03/12 02:14:10
    WannaBeRSC the Contrarian SOB
    +1
    Bingo. Right the first time.
  • poltheo 2008/07/20 00:00:53 (edited)
    No
    poltheo
    +1
    Any soldier fighting for a cause other than the defense of his or her state should not be tolerated. War is meant to be a bloody messy ordeal when the lives of valuable men and women on both sides are lost. What will happen when war becomes detached from this sense of loss and destruction? I fear that turning war into a battle between military corporations may weaken that sense of loss when or man or woman who was faithful to America's call is brought home in a casket and make it even easier for Congress to agree to take lives. Nor should they be relied on if they produce better results. Since I was young my parents told me that the ends never justifies the means. Blackwater is no different.
  • Duck 2008/06/03 02:07:44
    Yes
    Duck
    There are conditions, locations and timing that uniformed troops would be more of a problem... like providing protection for the operating of CIA drones out of 'other' countries... so in some cases a third party is desired, and leaves the lesser footprint. War is a nasty and deeply personal business, and victory goes to those who play all levels of war without restraint.
  • Bun 2008/05/07 06:53:11
    No
    Bun
    +1
    Never!
  • Headhunter 13 2008/03/03 20:29:35
    No
    Headhunter 13
    +1
    I think they are a rogue organization and if paid enough would even attack the US. Yes they are made up of Ex Military many with Advanced and special ops trining. They were taught these skills at Tax payers expense to defend their flag and country not to work for the highest bidder. Should we provide better for our troops so they stay yes but this is just fight for the highest bidder and with our econimy the way it is soon it may not be us.
  • LoKi ~So cool I'm Hot ~ lol 2008/02/19 09:03:16
    Yes
    LoKi ~So cool I'm Hot ~ lol
    They have done us more good than anybody will probably know. lol
    A few bad apples abusing power or maybe just people using media to terrorize the mercenaries. There were many accounts of photographers taking pictures of "civilians" being shot. They took the rifles out of the deceased hands and placed white flags or just took the rifles out to take pictures saying our military were just bloodthirsty monsters bring up arms and help fight them type of media attacking.
  • Patriotic American 2008/02/18 03:04:47
    No
    Patriotic American
    +2
    NO! Not in MY NAME! These evil bastards ar CRIMINALS TO THE nth degree!
  • Craig 2008/02/17 21:54:43
    No
    Craig
    +3
    Under The CONSTITUTION Article1sec8,Letters of Marque "Archaic. A letter of marque was issued by a nation to a privateer or mercenary to act on the behalf of that nation for the purpose of retaliating against another nation for some wrong, such as a border incursion or seizure".and Reprisal"Archaic. An act taken by a nation, short of war, to gain redress for an action taken against that nation. For example, seizing a ship in retaliation for a seized ship".
    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; So going by the CONSTITUTION a privateer or mercenary was only to be used against another nation, not against it's own citizens. The Militia is to be used to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions. The Militia is to be made up of WE THE PEOPLE . CONGRESS shall provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; I find nothing in The CONSTITUTION that calls for a standing army of mercenaries !!
  • tarriff 2008/02/17 21:06:44
    No
    tarriff
    +4
    A higher kill ratio isn't worth it.
  • mrorganic77 2008/02/17 20:24:10
    No
    mrorganic77
    +6
    Absolutely not they are not legal or lawful, mostly they are trained killers.
  • doc 2008/02/15 10:33:10
    Undecided
    doc
    I've tattooed some of these guys from Moyock, NC back in 06. Even officiated the wedding ceremony for one and his girl in between tattoos.
  • Daryl 2008/02/14 22:17:23 (edited)
    Yes
    Daryl
    +1
    Yes I support mercenaries and I support the use of para-military contractors like Blackwater (two separate issues) for the following reasons:

    -Different needs require different people...some needs are best handled by the military others are best suited for contractors.
    -Blackwater has a tremendous history of getting the job done, done right and done at the right price.
    -Blackwater has shown a record of cooperating with the military and complying with the law that rivals any other organization.
  • Ihr Has... Daryl 2008/02/14 22:46:38
    Ihr Hase ~ Radix Libertas
    +7
    $900 a man a day is the right price?

    Our founders did not think it was a good idea, I generally agree with them...
  • Daryl Ihr Has... 2008/02/14 23:22:47
    Daryl
    +1
    I am not sure that is the cost, but yes in my experience Blackwater gets the job done.

    I have been through this but I will repeat my points:

    -Blackwater contractors are mostly ex-military people with advanced training whose skills would be lost completely were it not for Blackwater.
    -The costs are much lower when deploying Blackwater for operations requiring advanced skill sets, limited use and with highly trained people (like VIP protection for visiting dignitaries, hostage rescue, explosives disposal and operations requiring advanced technology/communications equipment that would be difficult to acquire through military channels).
    -The Founders also didn't like non land-owners and women voting so there are a few subjects with which I can disagree with the Founders.

    If they felt so strongly against military contractors, why didn't they write it into the Constitution?
  • Ihr Has... Daryl 2008/02/14 23:59:48
    Ihr Hase ~ Radix Libertas
    +4
    If they felt it was necessary they would have written in policies for using mercenary forces....

    You know like using the military...

    "-The costs are much lower when deploying Blackwater for operations requiring advanced skill sets, limited use and with highly trained people (like VIP protection for visiting dignitaries, hostage rescue, explosives disposal and operations requiring advanced technology/communications equipment that would be difficult to acquire through military channels)."
    When you consider that Blackwater hires people from the military special ops, the cost to train comes from the taxpayers, and then we pay the inflated business wage to hire these men to fight outside of the military that we already paid for. I am sorry but the cost of the para-military contractors is far greater than the fact that they charge us $900 per man a day that really seems odd that we would pay our own boys, on average $92.15 per day and these contractors recieve on average $300 a day, we could not pay Blackwater and pay our own guys $300 a day and stimulate enlistment and we could pay for three men for every one Blackwater offers...

    Just a thought...
  • Daryl Ihr Has... 2008/02/15 00:16:18
    Daryl
    +1
    If that were the case, we would never hire Blackwater...nobody would but we do and they do and we are better-off because of it.

    Blackwater hasn't created a provisional dictatorship but the Republic of Mexico has export tens of millions of their poor to my country. I worry more about a nuclear Iran, communist China, fascist Russia than I do about the pay check of the guys who are protecting us from throat-slitting jihadis.
  • Ihr Has... Daryl 2008/02/15 00:31:16
    Ihr Hase ~ Radix Libertas
    +5
    And that is the issue here

    You worry about threats that will never invade as opposed to cultivating a military force that is loyal to coin....
  • Daryl Ihr Has... 2008/02/15 00:33:20
    Daryl
    +1
    Yes, that is accurate...but how many police and military people would work for free?
  • Ihr Has... Daryl 2008/02/15 00:56:54
    Ihr Hase ~ Radix Libertas
    +5
    No one is asking them to, but there is a marked difference between a military force accountable to the government and one that is hired outside. You cannot blur the lines, if you do you are asking for there to be an unaccountable military force potentially policing the people of the United States. Rome had a mercenary military force, and they paid for it when the military was not in use, these mercenaries became the hired thugs roaming the streets, assassins and other nare do wells....
  • Daryl Ihr Has... 2008/02/15 01:00:01
    Daryl
    +2
    But aren't they both paid by the government?

    Who said they are not accountable?

    >Rome had a mercenary military force, and they paid for it

    Good example...I love classical Roman history, we can have hours of discussion on Rome but let's not get distracted.

    If you want to ban all para-military contractors, then you need to fire security guards in all government agencies too since they carry guns.
  • Ihr Has... Daryl 2008/02/15 01:10:51
    Ihr Hase ~ Radix Libertas
    +4
    "Who said they are not accountable?"
    So far in practice, they have not been....

    Paid socially....
    You are the king of the misquote....

    There is a REMARKABLE difference between an armed guards and people who are hired to walk the streets of New Orleans with fully automatic weapons.

    Come on now Art you can't seriously equate the two...
  • Daryl Ihr Has... 2008/02/15 01:56:20
    Daryl
    +1
    >Come on now Art you can't seriously equate the two...

    No, they are different but both work for money and this is the point you made.
  • Ihr Has... Daryl 2008/02/15 02:28:17
    Ihr Hase ~ Radix Libertas
    +3
    One works for money and carries a pistol...

    the other



    Sorry but the comparisson falls a little short as ALL the security guards of this nation are not trained to or capable of taking (with their standard firepower) a major U.S. city, and in the case of the vehicle, apparently allowed to put police lights in their vehicles....
  • roger Daryl 2008/02/17 21:05:45
    roger
    +4
    Merc's are paid to kill regardless of who it is...and they can care less who it is or for whom it is...it used to be if you join the FFL or SFL you would lose your citizenship and not allowed to come back to US...seems like someone is allowing merc's to roam around the countryside of US...I am getting to be a older man...but I can see twenty -twenty five years; they'll rule countryside if not nipped in bud now...so be it!
  • larkzto... Daryl 2008/02/17 23:06:11
    larkztongue
    +3
    The Police and the Military have Duty and Honor in their ranks and are held accountable (mostly) for their actions
  • larkzto... Daryl 2008/02/17 22:46:11 (edited)
    larkztongue
    +3
    Throat-Slitting Jihadis.
    Did you ever think that after years and years that just maybe they have become sick and tired of the Western world coming in and invading them, stealing their possessions, shoving our culture down their throats, and trying to control their natural resources. Does anyone ever maybe think that by looking thru their eyes, these "Throat-Slitting Jihadis" are just defending themselves and trying to get us to leave their land? Let's see- just a few events off the top of my head-there was Alexander the Great, The Roman empire,Napoleon, the British Empire, The Ottoman Empire, then the British and French drew up new borders at the end of WW-I (set up the stage for all the tribal feuds in Iraq now), The Nazis, Then again here come the British, French, and the ONLY Nation that God is allowed to bless-America. Since WW II we have meddled and screwed with these people governments, replaced the elected President of Iran with something better-The Shah of Iran. We created Saddam, armed him to the teeth as a political friend and years later we bomb Iraq into something that is no longer a "Country" and then we realize that he was the only one that was able to keep Iran in check. And regarding Israel- Every people, Nation, and or Tribe deserves a home and has a right to have...'
    Throat-Slitting Jihadis.
    Did you ever think that after years and years that just maybe they have become sick and tired of the Western world coming in and invading them, stealing their possessions, shoving our culture down their throats, and trying to control their natural resources. Does anyone ever maybe think that by looking thru their eyes, these "Throat-Slitting Jihadis" are just defending themselves and trying to get us to leave their land? Let's see- just a few events off the top of my head-there was Alexander the Great, The Roman empire,Napoleon, the British Empire, The Ottoman Empire, then the British and French drew up new borders at the end of WW-I (set up the stage for all the tribal feuds in Iraq now), The Nazis, Then again here come the British, French, and the ONLY Nation that God is allowed to bless-America. Since WW II we have meddled and screwed with these people governments, replaced the elected President of Iran with something better-The Shah of Iran. We created Saddam, armed him to the teeth as a political friend and years later we bomb Iraq into something that is no longer a "Country" and then we realize that he was the only one that was able to keep Iran in check. And regarding Israel- Every people, Nation, and or Tribe deserves a home and has a right to have a place to call home - It would have worked out better if we didn't shove them down their throats.
    Empathy is something that helps create understanding and compassion-this is something special that Human Beings have that separates us from the rest of the life forms here on our tiny little blue Planet. Without it-We are nothing but Homo Sapiens.
    (more)
  • Daryl larkzto... 2008/02/17 23:11:36
    Daryl
    +1
    >Did you ever think that after years and years that just maybe they have become sick and tired of the Western world coming in and invading them, stealing their possessions, shoving our culture down their throats, and trying to control their natural resources.

    No, because this is not the history of the middle east.

    I see you have sympathy for jihad.

    I am glad we are on opposite sides.
  • Ihr Has... Daryl 2008/02/17 23:42:51
    Ihr Hase ~ Radix Libertas
    +3
    Wow Art this is far less than I expected from you....

    I expected a list of the terror attacks from islamic Jihadists during the first 100 years of our nation, while we were a noninterventionist nation to really combat the argument that this terror movement is actually a reflex to our invasion and intervention in their regional affairs....
  • Daryl Ihr Has... 2008/02/17 23:57:57
    Daryl
    +1
    I am bored with the topic.

    I could talk about how militant Islam has been attacking Americans since the time of Jefferson. I could talk about how militant Islamists killed a Kennedy and have a steady series of attacks against the USA before any troops invaded any country in the middle east.

    I could talk about how Blackwater has a record of success and achievement that bests any private organization in the industry but nobody cares about the facts.

    It's about hating Bush, hating Cheney and hating Blackwater.
  • larkzto... Daryl 2008/02/18 00:47:09
    larkztongue
    +1
    I hate no one
    I hate the sins
    Not the sinners
    Art- I think you are full of hate-
  • Daryl larkzto... 2008/02/18 02:09:23
    Daryl
    +1
    Well I can't say my heart is free of hatred but I am defined by what I support, not what I hate.

    I am sorry you have misread me.
  • Ihr Has... Daryl 2008/02/18 00:48:26 (edited)
    Ihr Hase ~ Radix Libertas
    +2
    Barbary Pirates were not acting in the intrest of Islam nations, they were pirates, it would be like you saying that America supports piracy because an American pirate only attacked non american ships.

    The actions of Sirhan Sirhan (sp) is representative of the entire religion?

    Since before we overthrew the government of Iran to install the Military Dictator, The Shah of Iran? Really how many attacks prior to the installment of our "friend" outside of the acts of piracy? If these people really hated freedom, and according to you had the where with all to attack us, why did they not overthrow our country after the Civil War when our military was in tatters?

    Editted errors...
  • Daryl Ihr Has... 2008/02/18 02:11:05
    Daryl
    +1
    I would love to stay and grapple but I would rather spend the time on topics that are still in question.

    Whomever is the next president will be sure to fire Blackwater.

    I am glad the war is drawing to a close before a liberal gets the chance to muck it up.
  • jayc32~... Daryl 2008/02/18 02:18:40
    jayc32~just me~
    +3
    No they will be employing them here at home instead most likely.

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