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As the Intelligent Design Movement Publishes Peer-Reviewed Literature, Critics Backpedal

GodBlessTheTeaparty 2012/02/08 21:06:31
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  • Katherine 2012/03/14 16:31:20
    Katherine
    * Thank you.
  • Icarus 2012/02/08 22:23:53
    Icarus
    Hilarious. Creationists are so, so sad.
  • zbacku 2012/02/08 21:18:58
    zbacku
    You will find that the Evolutionists here on SH will always deny any 'facts' that are laid out before them.
  • GodBles... zbacku 2012/02/08 21:20:13
    GodBlessTheTeaparty
    How can they believe we came from a monkey?
  • zbacku GodBles... 2012/02/08 21:45:48
    zbacku
    LOL. Just wait until you see their answers. You will be called names by most and you will see that sometimes it is best to just walk away before you are dragged down into their pit of delusion. I have been called EVERY name in the book. So thicken your skin and be strong.
  • Christo... zbacku 2012/02/08 22:13:18 (edited)
    Christopher101
    I think people call creationist names because they're usually perceived as unintelligent. They are so adamant against evolution being wrong but (the majority) have a 6th grade science level and use intelligent design/creation claims as "fact". Somehow one can be an expert and ignorant on the subject at the same time and that is what really amazes me.

    Not to start a long debate on said subject as I have done it enough times on here already, but what is the problem with evolution?

    btw I checked out the link and again I don't want to come off as some "evil" evolutionist who's out to get you but I noticed the names of Luskin, Dembski, and Behe. These are the same men who are a part of the intelligent design moment and established the discovery institute along with the creation museum. The same group as been out debated in national court and education board meetings several times due to only having a bachelors in biology compared to life long PHD holders. This doesn't mean they can't be correct but there arguments have been proven wrong so much they no longer are bothered with.
  • zbacku Christo... 2012/02/09 01:48:03
    zbacku
    +1
    Creation scientists have a 6th grade science level???? Unintelligent???
    Don't make me puke.


    A list of creation scientists who are/have contributed to science

    1) Dr. Raymond Damadian - inventor of MRI device

    2) Dr. Raymond Jones - CSIRO Gold Medal, detoxified Leucaena for livestock
    consumption

    3) Dr. Keith Wanser - 48 published papers, seven U.S. patents
    (Professor of Physics, Cal State Fullerton)

    4) Dr. Russell Humphreys - successful planetary magnetic predictions
    (nuclear physicist, Sandia National Laboratories )

    5) Dr. Kurt Wise - Ph.D. in paleontology under Stephen J. Gould at Harvard

    6) Jules H. Poirier - designer of radar FM altimeter on Apollo Lunar
    Landing Module

    7) Dr. Sinaseli Tshibwabwa - discovered 7 new species of fish in the Congo

    8) Dr. Saami Shaibani - "International Expert" by the US Depts of Labor and
    Justice. 100 published articles (B.A. (Hons), M.A., M.Sc., D.Phil, a
    physics professor and researcher)

    1) (ID) Dr. Henry F. Schaefer III - five-time Nobel nominee
    (professor of chemistry at the University of Georgia)

    2) (ID) Dr. William S. Harris - $3.5 million in research grants, over 70
    scientific papers, Director of the Lipoprotein Research Laboratory at Saint
    Luke’s Hospital. Chair in Metabolism and Vascular Biology and is a
    Professor of Medicine at the University of Missouri.

    ...
















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    Creation scientists have a 6th grade science level???? Unintelligent???
    Don't make me puke.


    A list of creation scientists who are/have contributed to science

    1) Dr. Raymond Damadian - inventor of MRI device

    2) Dr. Raymond Jones - CSIRO Gold Medal, detoxified Leucaena for livestock
    consumption

    3) Dr. Keith Wanser - 48 published papers, seven U.S. patents
    (Professor of Physics, Cal State Fullerton)

    4) Dr. Russell Humphreys - successful planetary magnetic predictions
    (nuclear physicist, Sandia National Laboratories )

    5) Dr. Kurt Wise - Ph.D. in paleontology under Stephen J. Gould at Harvard

    6) Jules H. Poirier - designer of radar FM altimeter on Apollo Lunar
    Landing Module

    7) Dr. Sinaseli Tshibwabwa - discovered 7 new species of fish in the Congo

    8) Dr. Saami Shaibani - "International Expert" by the US Depts of Labor and
    Justice. 100 published articles (B.A. (Hons), M.A., M.Sc., D.Phil, a
    physics professor and researcher)

    1) (ID) Dr. Henry F. Schaefer III - five-time Nobel nominee
    (professor of chemistry at the University of Georgia)

    2) (ID) Dr. William S. Harris - $3.5 million in research grants, over 70
    scientific papers, Director of the Lipoprotein Research Laboratory at Saint
    Luke’s Hospital. Chair in Metabolism and Vascular Biology and is a
    Professor of Medicine at the University of Missouri.

    Others:

    Dr. Emmett L. Williams, Ph.D. Materials Engineering
    Dr. David A. Kaufmann, Ph.D. Anatomy
    Dr. Glen W. Wolfrom, Ph.D. Ruminant Nutrition
    Dr. Theodore P. Aufdemberge, Ph.D. Physical Geography,
    Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Ph.D. Physics
    Dr. George F. Howe, Ph.D. Botany
    Dr. Wayne F. Frair, Ph.D. Serology
    Dr. John R. Meyer, Ph.D. Zoology
    Dr. Robert Goette, Ph.D. Chemistry
    Dr. Lane Lester -- Ph.D. in genetics from Purdue University
    Dr. Andrew Snelling -- Ph.D. in geology, U. of Sydney
    Dr. Don Batten, consultant plant physiologist
    Dr. Gary Parker, Ed.D. in Biology/Geology, Ball State University
    Dr. John Baumgardner, Los Alamos Laboratories
    Dr. Donald B. DeYoung, Ph.D., Physics, Grace College, Winona Lake, Indiana
    Dr. Eric Norman, Ph.D, Biochemistry, Texas A&M University
    Dr. Clifford A. Wilson - Archaeologist, Author of "Crash go the Chariots"
    Michael Oard, MS, Atmospheric Science, U. of Washington, meteorologist
    Keyoshi Takahashi, Ph.D., Botany - has had research published in Nature.
    Dr. Andy McIntosh, Reader in Combustion Theory at Leeds U., U.K.

    Dr. George Marshall, Ph.D., Ophthalmic Science, U of Glasgow, Scotland
    chartered biologist, member of the Institute of Biology
    Dr. Danny Faulkner -- Ph.D. Astronomy, Indiana University, Associate
    Professor, U. of South Carolina, Lancaster
    Dr. David Menton, Associate Professor of Anatomy, Washington University
    School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri
    Prof. Maciej Giertych, Ph.D.(Toronto), D.Sc.(Poznan), head of the Genetics
    Dept. of the Polish Academy of Sciences, Institute of Dendrology, Kornik,
    Poland.
    Dr. James Allan, M.Sc.Agric., PhD., retired senior lecturer in the Dept. of
    Genetics, Univ. of Stellenbosch, South Africa
    Dr. Andre Eggen, Ph.D. in animal genetics from the Federal Institute of
    Technology in Switzerland, research scientist for the French government
    Dr. Brian Stone, Ph.D., Head of the Dept. of Mechanical Engineering,
    U. of Western Australia
    Dr. Donald Chittick, Ph.D. in physical chemistry, Oregon State U.,
    Associate Professor of Chemistry , U. of Puget Sound
    Dr. Giuseppe Sermonti, Ph.D., geneticist and microbiologist, has served as
    Professor of Genetics at U. of Palermo & U. of Perugia
    Dr. Andre Eggen, Institute Nationale de la Agrinomique of France, working
    on genetic defect in cows known as the Bulldog gene defect.
    Dave Phillips, M.S., physical anthropology, California State U., working on
    Ph.D. in paleontology
    Jonathan D. Sarfati, Ph.D., F.M. -- Ph.D. in Chemistry from Victoria
    univeristy of Wellington, New Zealand. New Zealand chess champion.

    Dr. Jack Cuozzo, orthodontist (DDS, University of Pennsylvania and MS in
    Oral Biology, Loyola University of Chicago) and an original researcher of
    Neanderthals, is the author of Buried Alive. This book sets forth the
    thesis that human craniofacial structures continue to change with aging and
    that Neanderthals were humans who lived to be hundreds of years old
    (post-flood). If anything, humans are devolving.

    Dr. Joseph Mastropaolo, physiologist for the human engine of the Gossamer
    Condor and Gossamer Albatross man-powered flight projects (reported in the
    National Geographic), received his doctorate from the University of Iowa.
    Dr. Mastropaolo does not believe evolution qualifies as science.

    Dr. Robert A. Herrmann -- Professor of Mathematics, U. S. Naval Academy
    http://mathweb.mathsci.usna.e...
    http://www.serve.com/herrmann...

    Dr. Ian Macreadie -- molecular biology and microbiology researcher,
    Principal Research Scientist at the Biomolecular Research Institute of
    Australia's Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization
    (CSIRO)

    Dr. Felix Konotey-Ahulu, M.D., FRCP, DTMH, world authority on sickle-cell
    disease, 25 years' experience as physician, clinical geneticist and
    consultant in Ghana and subsequently in London. Visiting professor at
    Howard University College of Medicine in Washington, and honorary
    consultant to its Centre for Sickle Cell Disease. Author of 643-page
    monograph "The Sickle Cell Disease Patient", Macmillan, 1991.

    Dr. AwSwee-Eng, Ph.D., former Associate Professor of Biochemistry, Univ. of
    Singapore, head of Dept. of Nuclear Medicine & Director of Clinical
    Research , Singapore General Hospital, Author of about 30 technical papers
    in biochemistry and nuclear medicine.

    John K. Reed ¨ Principal Engineer, Westinghouse Savannah River Company,
    (1999-present) ¨ degrees - B.S. geology (Furman Univ.), M.S. geology (Univ.
    of Georgia), Ph.D. geology (Univ. of South Carolina) ¨ other qualifications
    - Senior Production Geologist (Sun Exploration and Production Co., Houston,
    1982-1988); Research Asst. Prof. (Earth Sciences and Resources Institute,
    Univ. of South Carolina, 1988-1991); Exploration Manager (PetraTex, Dallas,
    1991-1992) Partner (Strata Consulting Services, Dallas, 1992); Sr.
    Scientist (Westinghouse Savannah River Company, 1992-1999); ten articles in
    CRS Quarterly; 14 articles in secular scientific journals, Associate Editor
    for Geology for CRS Quarterly.


    From the past:

    Kepler -- Laws of planetary motion.
    Francis Bacon -- contributed to formalization of scientific method
    Linnaeus -- classification
    John Ray -- Founder of biological science
    Robert Boyle -- Founder of modern chemistry
    Sir Isaac Newton -- gravity, optics, calculus
    Blaise Pascal -- mathematics, calculating machine, air pressure
    Charles Babbage -- invented "difference engine," designed computer
    Gregor Mendel -- first studies of heredity
    James Joule -- physics, inc. beginning of thermodynamics
    William Thomson, Lord Kelvin -- Physics
    Michael Faraday -- Physics
    John Dalton -- chemistry
    Louis Pasteur -- immunization, disproof of spontaneous generation
    Sir John Herschel -- mathematician and astronomer, called the theory "the
    law of higgledy-pigglety"
    James Clerk Maxwell -- physicist, developed theory of electromagnetism
    Adam Sedgwick -- geologist
    Andrew Murray -- entomologist
    Richard Owen -- coined the term "dinosaur"
    Louis Agassiz, founder of modern glacial geology
    Werner von Braun -- Leader of early US space program (Creation 16(2))
    James Irwin -- astronaut, walked on the moon
    A.E. Wilder-Smith (deceased)- 3 earned doctorates, master of seven
    languages, UN advisor
    (more)
  • Christo... zbacku 2012/02/09 15:16:50
    Christopher101
    No no, you misunderstood or maybe I didn't make myself quite clear. I know there are smart people who are also creationist who have helped in the fields of science, but I meant that as creationist of the public as non scientist (the majority) usually fight against science and and the same time no nothing about it. Just look at the examples on here.

    As for the scientist side most of the time they are arguing against certain aspects of evolution and for creation of life which is not evolution but abiogenesis or things that are anti evolution. Trying to find holes in evolution in certain subjects does not equate to destroying the core subject as we do not know everything about everything. However things like the grand canyon proves noahs flood and micheal behe's irreducible complexity have been debunked several times over and it is still pushed as fact. I'm not claiming all creation scientist don't have merit but there are a lot of them who are incorrect. The overall concept is fact. Several mechanisms it uses to do these are FACT! They are viewable by anyone and without doubt exist and are as real as human flight(against the theory of gravity). The issue is in the details and if someone wants to provide evidence of evolution not happening at all i'm open for debate but these silly ideas of grown "scientist" claiming evolution is false because we don't have a half man/half monkey skeleton just shows me how misinformed they are.
  • zbacku Christo... 2012/02/09 16:27:42
    zbacku
    +1
    Take a look at Mount St. Helen's canyon, formed in a matter of DAYS. mt st helen s canyon

    An Evolutionist would tell you that would have taken millions of years to form if they didn't know about how it got there.

    Go ahead and believe that all life evolved from nothing without some outside help. I stick to what is more believable. And the next time you see a 'human' fly without any help from an outside source call me.
  • Christo... zbacku 2012/02/09 16:46:51 (edited)
    Christopher101
    How do you know it was formed in days? I'm unaware of said situation as I know radioscopic dating was used to measure the age of the molten rock. Lava has been in the earths crust for a long time so I would expect it to give me an old age.

    So does lighting/thunder get thrown by the god Zeus or is it a force in nature?

    So you're claiming because humans can't do it, it doesn't exist while at the same time believing in miracles/magic? I guess sub atomic particles can't "pop into existence" ...oh wait in physics they can. High level science seems magical but it's just natural forces at work. Where these natural forces come from is unknown at the moment but that doesn't equate to "a magical man did it" because then you'd have to explain where he came from. Circular logic is circular. If you ask me how humans formed i'd say I don't know, but evolution again has nothing to do with creation but what life does after it was already on the planet. Abiogenesis has to do with "creation" of life. It's a fairly new science and much of it is unknown, however we have successfully created the building blocks of life/ DNA/RNA (amino acids) to form with prehistoric conditions. That's all we know about it.
  • zbacku Christo... 2012/02/09 17:11:39
    zbacku
    +1
    Now I know you are delusional. Bringing up Zeus was genius.
    To say that evolution 'has nothing to do with creation' would get you kicked out of any Evolution class. To a true Evolutionist, it has EVERY thing to do with creation.

    So, if I were to put the all the components of a car in a tumbler and waited, say two million years, would a fully built and running automobile emerge or would I need even more millions of years. You see, there has to be a Creator.

    http://nwcreation.net/mtsthel...
  • Christo... zbacku 2012/02/09 17:49:32
    Christopher101
    No as I actually understand what it's stating.
    Evolution
    a. Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
    b. The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
    4. A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements.
    5. Mathematics The extraction of a root of a quantity.

    As I said another misconception of creationist. Evolution only claims how things change.

    Your car analogy is what Micheal Behe (creation scientist) calls irreducibly complex. If you take a part of a something the whole structure falls apart as it looks designed. However this is not how anything in biology works because biology is not a set design with set parts. This is what I meant again by misconception. Again not to be rude but to teach you I would have to start at square one.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Here's ONE example. The Flagella. (it's a tale on certain bacteria that it uses for movement like a rutter on a boat/tale on a dolphin)

    The flagella of certain bacteria constitute a molecular motor requiring the interaction of about 40 complex protein parts. Behe asserts that the absence of any one of these proteins causes ...




    No as I actually understand what it's stating.
    Evolution
    a. Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
    b. The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
    4. A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements.
    5. Mathematics The extraction of a root of a quantity.

    As I said another misconception of creationist. Evolution only claims how things change.

    Your car analogy is what Micheal Behe (creation scientist) calls irreducibly complex. If you take a part of a something the whole structure falls apart as it looks designed. However this is not how anything in biology works because biology is not a set design with set parts. This is what I meant again by misconception. Again not to be rude but to teach you I would have to start at square one.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Here's ONE example. The Flagella. (it's a tale on certain bacteria that it uses for movement like a rutter on a boat/tale on a dolphin)

    The flagella of certain bacteria constitute a molecular motor requiring the interaction of about 40 complex protein parts. Behe asserts that the absence of any one of these proteins causes the flagella to fail to function, and that the flagellum "engine" is irreducibly complex as in his view if we try to reduce its complexity by positing an earlier and simpler stage of its evolutionary development, we get an organism which functions improperly.
    Scientists regard this argument as having been disproved in the light of research dating back to 1996 as well as more recent findings.[65] They point out that the basal body of the flagella has been found to be similar to the Type III secretion system (TTSS), a needle-like structure that pathogenic germs such as Salmonella and Yersinia pestis use to inject toxins into living eucaryote cells. The needle's base has ten elements in common with the flagellum, but it is missing forty of the proteins that make a flagellum work.[66] Thus, this system negates the claim that taking away any of the flagellum's parts would render it useless. On this basis, Kenneth Miller notes that, "The parts of this supposedly irreducibly complex system actually have functions of their own."[67][68]

    To put that in simple terms. Behe thinks a flagellum is only used a means of transportation and nothing else. If you take away a part it no longer works. However in biology animals parts are used for multiple task and only change with mutations/adaptations(within a population of 10,000+ generations) to their enviornment (if they survive) to help them survive. These changes are verify ably view-able in every species including us.

    As for these totally unbiased claims about Mt St Helen -_- I've seen this before. What the creation institute (this is based off their movie) is claiming is that because a large evenly dug out (not by errosion but by shifting of land mass/dirt/etc)crater exist that it proves the earth can create huge land forms instantly. This is however not the case. Not all layers of sedimentary rock (in the grand canyon) are from water erosion. The rock composite made of of volcanic rock is soft rock and just that. There are layers of it but it comes from the same place as it is a mixture of ground/current volcanic soft rock that has cooled/compressed. This is not the same with with the grand canyon as it has limestone, redstone, and 44 other distinct layers that consist of multiple directions of erosion/cross scaring. This isn't the case with Mt St. Helen as it was done in a fairly large swoop. Ever find it strange how it's always the same creationist organization who spends their time claiming science is wrong by using science? It's a bit ironic.
    (more)
  • zbacku Christo... 2012/02/09 18:01:54
    zbacku
    Square One: and god said
  • Christo... zbacku 2012/02/09 18:29:12
    Christopher101
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    All the myths describing how man/life came to be. All share similarities and unique stories of gods/goddesses.

    The first would be the Sumerians/Mesopotamians (they created written language) with oral stories around 2500BC and written around 2100BC. The first written story "The Epic of Gilgamesh" not only claims creation but of gods/a great flood (with matching quotes) and similarities to the tree of knowledge/garden of Eden/ being trick by a serpent/tales of sin/sin of the flesh/ a virgin birth dealing with gods, and were both prophets and kings....but hey maybe it's a coincidence. -_-

    Christianity wasn't written till 800+ years later and was based off the Hebrew Talmund....Of course many people do not know any of this as they are comfortable with their belief and have "faith" or trust in the bible/their "God."

    As the GI Joes used to say "Knowledge is power."
  • zbacku Christo... 2012/02/09 20:49:00
    zbacku
    +1
    Tell me you didn't bring wikipedia into this. Please tell me that you didn't do that.

    As for me, I will trust my God, the Creator of All Things before wiki wiki.
  • Christo... zbacku 2012/02/09 21:09:47
    Christopher101
    No I went to Wikipedia for the creation myths as they have a few good ones.

    As for the Epic of Gilgamesh I enjoy history and have done a pretty good sweep of biblical culture/history. Dead sea scrolls, cultural timeline and the books of the bible mathew,luke,mark a john....and Paul (saul of tarus).

    Yes that is normal, trust for something you're comfortable with. To be human is to be faulty but I would prefer my truths to be factual even if they are uncomfortable with my current beliefs.
  • Christo... GodBles... 2012/02/08 22:15:35
    Christopher101
    +1
    They don't. That is a misconception due to the diagram and is mistaught by creationist and/or the intelligent design movement. This also includes "evolution is only a theory", "evolution claims we evolved from primordial sludge" and "evolution states the big bang created the universe." All of these are incorrect.
  • zbacku Christo... 2012/02/09 02:01:00
    zbacku
    +1
    So, the fact that Evolutionists are always changing their minds about their 'theory's' makes the latest and greatest 'theory' truth????

    That's what I call INSANE. Talk about a 6th grade education.
  • Christo... zbacku 2012/02/09 14:57:38
    Christopher101
    First off your use in theory is that of it in lamen terms. Scientific theory is a whole other defintion. A theory in lamen terms (everyday language) is the same as a hypothesis in science.

    Like the theory of gravity, the theory of plate techtonics,germ theory and the heliocentric theory all these are fact. This is what I meant with misconceptions in science. The overall theory is a web of facts/info. Not all of the details in the theory are true. However as far as we've gotten we know the core "change over time through adaption/natural selection through mechanisms like genetic drift, mutation" etc are factual as they occur in a real time even where anyone (who has the equipment/means) can view them in real time. It also doesn't help to claim that evolution doesn't work when we use it in applicable science.(Medicine, health, genetics, artificial selection to cultivate various foods, unextinction of species, flavors, pigments, etc).

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