Arizona at critical mass?

by Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ Posted 2012/10/16 23:39:04

Related Topics: Democrat, illegal immigrant, Napolitano, Illegal Immigrants, Voters, America, Arizona, Mass, Start, Amnesty, Immigrants, Immigrant

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	America, R.I.P.	23 votes	29%
	It's not too late.	29 votes	37%
	Kwitcherb***hin and welcome this necessary social change!	16 votes	20%
	I have another idea.	11 votes	14%

Last June, SecHomeSec Janet Napolitano announced that "Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals," which is to say, amnesty for illegal immigrants "brought here when they were kids," would start at once.

And now we see that Arizona is flipping Democrat.

Could it be because those kids are now duly registered to vote? Even though, not yet being citizens, they shouldn't be?

Is this how our country dies? With millions of new voters voting for "the goodies," with no regard for where they'll come from? When those who know better, don't bother, and those who don't know better, are the only ones voting?

+12

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Kat 2012/10/16 23:48:42

It's not too late.

+9
States still should be able to stop this illegal crap.
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More polls by Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆

indigoeyes57 2012/10/19 19:06:55

America, R.I.P.

+1
Have to get American Citizens to work before granting amnesty to Childhood Arrivals

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Rusty Bubbles 2012/10/19 09:11:05

America, R.I.P.

+1
The plan all along was to saturate and dilute our population with illegals that out language, culture, and history would get lost in the mix

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mk, Smartass Oracle 2012/10/18 01:29:12

America, R.I.P.

+1
We're screwed

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Osama McDonalds 2012/10/18 01:20:19

Kwitcherb***hin and welcome this necessary social change!

I don't think the fact that the people coming over are illegal is what bothers Americans so much as the idea that the are not carrying their weight and/or are overtaxing the public system. I'm grew up in south Los Angeles around both legal and illegal immigrants and a majority of the ones i met were eager to work and were not the 'lazy Mexicans' that supposedly seek to sponge off the system. Facts are facts, the USA could absolutely benefit from a labor pool of Latin American immigrants...who do you think helped build the Southwest anyway, American Indians and Caucasians only? LOL. The problem is how to wisely integrate these people. C'mon, it is not like the Latino culture is soooo alien in the USA. IMHO, i think it is time we embrace change and turn lemons into lemonade...and if that means we have to bring in more immigrants (like what made America great in the first place) then lets do it, lets get them productive and lets everyone paying their fair share. Even Republican presidents of the past knew they couldn't realistically kick out illegal immigrants due to their entrenchment in the economy of the US and that is why Regan and Bush both granted amnesty to millions. You may disagree and that's cool because this is just my opinion.

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indigoe... to Osama M... 2012/10/19 19:02:58

With 23 million American citizens out of work we could use a break in bringing in a bunch of Latin Americans,who helped build the Southwest were Irish and Chinese slaves also Caucasians,American Indians,African Americans and Latinos.

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Osama M... to indigoe... 2012/10/20 00:00:30 (edited)

Nice points. In regards to your first one: as you probably are aware, a majority of illegal immigrants that are working in the US are often employed in low paying, long hour, hard labor jobs. Here is an excerpt from a 2010 new article titled "Americans Don't Want Farm Work":

"The AP analysis showed that, from January to June (2010), California farmers posted ads for 1,160 farmworker positions open to U.S. citizens and legal residents. But only 233 people in those categories applied after learning of the jobs through unemployment offices in California, Texas, Nevada and Arizona."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

So, here are over 1,100 jobs available ($10/hr was quoted) to ALL THOSE unemployed US citizens in 4 very populous states....yet only 223 applied. Know how many of those other position were filled by foreign immigrants willing to do that hard work and take that wage? 937!

How can people in complain about there not being jobs available and the illegals taking them when this example just blows that myth out of the water?....that problem is, it is just not CONVENIENT for US citizens to work hard labor for $10/hr in the hot sun trimming strawberries and having to relocate or leave your family during the harvest. But you know who will...those that want it...and isn't that wh...

Nice points. In regards to your first one: as you probably are aware, a majority of illegal immigrants that are working in the US are often employed in low paying, long hour, hard labor jobs. Here is an excerpt from a 2010 new article titled "Americans Don't Want Farm Work":

"The AP analysis showed that, from January to June (2010), California farmers posted ads for 1,160 farmworker positions open to U.S. citizens and legal residents. But only 233 people in those categories applied after learning of the jobs through unemployment offices in California, Texas, Nevada and Arizona."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

So, here are over 1,100 jobs available ($10/hr was quoted) to ALL THOSE unemployed US citizens in 4 very populous states....yet only 223 applied. Know how many of those other position were filled by foreign immigrants willing to do that hard work and take that wage? 937!

How can people in complain about there not being jobs available and the illegals taking them when this example just blows that myth out of the water?....that problem is, it is just not CONVENIENT for US citizens to work hard labor for $10/hr in the hot sun trimming strawberries and having to relocate or leave your family during the harvest. But you know who will...those that want it...and isn't that what America and the capitalist system is about..rewarding those willing to work their butts off?

What are your thoughts on this?
(more)

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indigoe... to Osama M... 2012/10/22 19:50:13

+1
My solution is to have people on welfare take the jobs or get off welfare. Once the jobs are filled then we can have a legal immigrants. I've done farm work and low paying jobs in my life.

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Osama M... to indigoe... 2012/10/22 20:45:00

I agree to a point. With farm work (for example), there might be a logistical and (working) cultural problem to overcome though if there were jobs in the far countryside and the unemployed were focused in the cities. I live in L.A. and I am sure there would be many unemployed people willing to do labor for $10/hr...but I don't know if they would be willing to re-locate to Central California for a $10/hr job. And, some of them have families so what do you do with the kids?

That seems to be one of the advantages(?) of the immigrant workers...they are willing to pick up and leave their families to go work 100's of miles away for long hours and low pay. Then again, the purchasing power of that money goes a long way when they send it back to Mexico or Central America AND immigrants are much more frugal in their spending.

I'll tell ya, now that we are living in a global economy, we are facing competition from 3rd world labor markets that we just not ready to compete against.

Let me ask you this...what do you think is worse: US companies relocating their businesses to a 3rd world country or those same companies staying in the US and hiring immigrants for 3rd world countries?

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indigoe... to Osama M... 2012/10/22 21:25:58

+1
Illegals have children,do they know better what to do with the kids?
Maybe Romney is right and 47% of the Obama voters don't want jobs. They want a job and pay their own way and not depend on the Government they will do what they have to
That is a problem when the illegals send money back to their families in their home country and not spend it here,hurts the American economy.
Rather we just stop regulating and taxing companies so much so they will stay and hire American workers.

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Osama M... to indigoe... 2012/10/22 21:53:21

I'm for lowering taxes for businesses, especially if they are creating jobs. Deregulation is a little scary though and I would have to do a little research to see where that could be done and be beneficial. We all know the horror stories of banking deregulation that came out of the housing crisis and, I believe, here in Southern California, greedy energy traders really (illegally) screwed over customers when they manipulated the electricity prices under the banner of deregulation. Many companies here in the US have to follow environmental laws as part of government regulations...something that companies in China and other emerging economies don't have to contend with as much (or pay for).

So, lowering taxes, yes...deregulation, I'd have to know more specifics before agreeing to trash them in the name of attracting businesses.

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Osama M... to indigoe... 2012/10/20 00:04:16

Here's another few articles about how there are open jobs left by immigrants that unemployed Americans don't want to take:

http://azstarnet.com/article_...

http://www.businessweek.com/m...

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Hamilton 2012/10/17 19:38:08

It's not too late.

+1
The battle isn't won or lost until it is over and it ain't over.

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Footage 2012/10/17 19:05:15

It's not too late.

+1
Registering someone to vote, and validating those registrations and getting them to the polls are too vastly different things. As an Arizonan, I'm quite confident we will be solidly in the red column come November.

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GOP Poison 2012/10/17 18:25:46

I have another idea.

While I agree somewhat with your concerns,I think the demise of America as we once knew it will come through greed on steroids. Many people shrug off the sending of jobs to our enemies as capitalism and we are all for capitalism.After that it is only an arms length to capitalism equals patriotism. Kruschev once claimed that America would crumble from the inside out.I thought he was reffering to liberal radicalism that was going on at the time,but now I see that it was the power of capital.Citizens united has opened the doors for those with power and wealth to truly control our daily lives.The people that get elected will be the ones that will do their bidding and NO politician with any hope of a career in the field will dare say anything that will upset their benefactors.THAT is why the shift of jobs to China and Viet Nam will not be mentioned.The only way we will ever see this reversed is when citizens united is overturned and the will of the everyday people will have as much weight as the billionaires.

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Temlako... to GOP Poison 2012/10/17 18:49:17

By "will of the everyday people" you really mean "will of the labor unions." The unions were getting a free pass, while others who decided to unite their resources in a common cause, were not.

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GOP Poison to Temlako... 2012/10/17 18:55:46

Union workers are everyday people. These are the people that get up every morning and go to work and play by the rules and watch their fate decided by the wealthy that write and change the rules.

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Temlako... to GOP Poison 2012/10/17 18:57:49

The leaders of those unions are just more guys looking out for pull and perquisites.

Whereas the joint-stock investors who created Citizens United for Restoration, Renewal, and Reformation sought to restore the values of this country.

Before that ruling came down, election law stacked the deck on the liberal side. Now maybe you think that's right and proper. I don't.

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GOP Poison to Temlako... 2012/10/17 19:11:15

Then you are against one man and one vote? Mitt Romneys billionaire buddies bought him the primary victory and I do not remember any cons here on SH that were in favor of him so I do not know how he even won with the billionaires wallets behind him. When ANY one man can sit down a write a check for a candidate that will surpass the accumulation of the opponents total donations we are opening the doors to a handful of billionaires OWNING this country.
What values are you referring to the billionaires restoring?
If the election law was stacked on the liberal side I do not see that since the republican candidates have won more elections.

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Temlako... to GOP Poison 2012/10/17 19:18:20

That was not the issue with CURRR v. FEC. The issue is whether any group of people would have to be a labor union in order to pool their resources to advertise politically.

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GOP Poison to Temlako... 2012/10/17 20:04:56

You missd something along the line.Labor unions have what they call CAP drives among their members and the money from that is logged with each members name and put into a fund. The wealthy pooling millions can hardly be compared to a factory of 5,000 employees raising 10 or 15 thousand dollars.

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Temlako... to GOP Poison 2012/10/17 20:07:27

And that money you mentioned is coerced out of the members.

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GOP Poison to Temlako... 2012/10/17 20:36:34

+2
Wrong !!!!!!. I was a union member for 30 years and I know about this. I was an officer. We listened to every candidate every election and in fact endorsed some republicans. All any union member would have had to do was go to the department of labor and say they were forced to give money and we would have been de-certified. Un-like the coal miners for Romney no one in my 30 yers was ever forced to give to any CAP fund.

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Osama M... to GOP Poison 2012/10/18 00:54:50

Nice discussion and I like that GOP Poison was an actual officer in a union and can speak from experience rather than the 99% conjecture that goes on about how unions work and how they are thugs.

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GOP Poison to Osama M... 2012/10/18 01:25:03

I started in the foundry and held a lot of different jobs. Hardest workers and most honest people I have ever known worked in that factory.

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Temlako... to GOP Poison 2012/10/19 00:34:24

The unions with whom I am most familiar are CWA, SEIU, AFSCME, AFGE, etc. As Samuel Gompers once said, you ask them what they want, and they'll give you a simple answer: more.

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keeper 2012/10/17 18:22:49 (edited)

It's not too late.

+1
There is still time to do a comprehensive immigration reform as soon as Romney is elected.

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beavith1 2012/10/17 15:35:12 (edited)

It's not too late.

+2
who said AZ is flipping democrat? 538 has it leaning Romney pretty strongly.

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StarWar... to beavith1 2012/10/17 18:01:41

+1
Perhaps it's because of this latest poll coming out of Arizona.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ball...

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beavith1 to StarWar... 2012/10/17 18:08:14

+1
i don't doubt that polls exist that say this. i'd call this one an 'outlier'...

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StarWar... to beavith1 2012/10/17 19:11:16

It may be an outlier, but one would have to look at what happened in Arizona in 2008 and 2004. John McCain beat Barack Obama by 53.4% to 44.9% in his own home state, or by 8.5%. John McCain got 195,404 more votes than Kerry out of 2,264,818 votes cast.

In 2004, George Bush beat John Kerry by 54.97% to 44.43%, or by 10.54%.

In the Arizona Senate race, the averages of all the polls shows the Republican Jeff Flake ahead of the Democrat Richard Carmona by an average 0.8%.
http://www.realclearpolitics....

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beavith1 to StarWar... 2012/10/18 03:52:36

k

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Seonag 2012/10/17 12:08:07

It's not too late.

+4
But it is close. We need to change the administration and get our immigration problems resolved!

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jimmy to Seonag 2012/10/17 13:25:36

+2
Totally agree

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Phil 2012/10/17 09:24:56

America, R.I.P.

+1
It is with a whimper that The United States of America dies. At least if we got into a Nuclear War with the U.S.S.R. long ago at least it could have ended with a bang.

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Osama M... to Phil 2012/10/18 00:57:43

Are you saying you would rather have millions and millions of burned bodies and total destruction of the land...then a gradual attrition? Yikes.

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Phil to Osama M... 2012/10/18 02:32:11

A quick death is better then a slow one.

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Biki 2012/10/17 05:45:30

America, R.I.P.

+4
This illegal immigrant issue is becoming a national critical mass.

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Bureauc 0webama 2012/10/17 04:05:36

It's not too late.

+6
You have highlighted one more reason this election is so important to the survival of this Nation.

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Red Branch 2012/10/17 03:03:11

It's not too late.

+4
But it is close.

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Dave0626 2012/10/17 02:48:10

It's not too late.

+5
Going to remain optimistic. When Romney becomes President, hope he either gets rid of all the illegals or taxes the crap out of Arizona!

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