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Are the Rich Responsible for Their Own Success? (President Obama Thinks Not)

Chris D 2012/07/16 21:00:00
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The quote in question is from a recent presidential speech in Virginia is: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.' What in the world could President Obama have meant by that?

DAILYMAIL.CO.UK reports:
In a speech in Roanoke, Virginia, the President said: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that'. It sparked a furious response from the National Federation of Independent Businesses on Monday, who said it showed an 'utter lack of understanding'.
sparked furious response national federation independent businesses onmonday utter understanding

Read More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174160/Ob...

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  • TheBorg 2012/07/16 23:22:21 (edited)
    What the... ?
    TheBorg
    +45
    WTF? Never seen a quote taken more out of context. What I heard was that the workers of a company have a part in making that company successful and should be recognized by the company for their hard work. It is not the CEO who is taking the risk when creating a business, it is the worker.

    My case in point: in 2012 the Koch brothers made 11 billion in profit yet still laid off over 25% of their workers in Green Bay, many middle aged. Now they need to find retraining, find a job, and still support their families. Most ended up losing their homes or at the very least downsizing. What CEO has every lost their home, needed to be retrained, or lost their life savings trying to make ends meet after a business went under or they got fired?

    What I heard from Obama is that one man cannot make a successful business without good workers and good workers should be recognized for their contribution to the organization. Currently the climate is that only the CEO is of any importance and should take advantage of their workers any way they can.

    workers workers recognized contribution organization climate ceo importance advantage workers

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  • TheBorg Carrie 2012/07/17 22:09:23
    TheBorg
    Read the article
    read article
    ",,,Obama has signed bills with 17 small business tax cuts"
    http://www.politifact.com/tru...
  • Franklin TheBorg 2012/07/19 13:13:30
    Franklin
    cuts to NEW taxes he and democrats added in 09 - thanks for playing now go clean your room and make your bed like you mom told you to this morning !
  • Franklin Jackie ... 2012/07/17 13:07:47
    Franklin
    +2
    the first three thumbs up on his comment are false avatars ....this guy is building support for distraction from the facts based on getting top comment by deception . But more on point Obama was clearly talking about the founder of a corporation and Borg wants to alter it to sound like he was talking about "CEO's"
  • TheBorg Franklin 2012/07/19 01:52:17 (edited)
    TheBorg
    "...we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together"

    A quote directly from Obama's speech.
    the entire transcripts of the speech can be read here:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the...
    I've been looking looking for any mention of "the founder of a corporation" but can't seem to find it. Maybe you can point me to it?

    You are correct, all 35 raves are me wearing multiple disguises.
    ive mention founder corporation correct 35 raves wearing multiple disguises
    ive mention founder corporation correct 35 raves wearing multiple disguises
    Please keep posting comments, I love a good laugh.
  • Franklin TheBorg 2012/07/19 12:27:04
    Franklin
    not what he said ...nice edit retard ! I told you back in 08 you would spend 4 years defending that guy and as we can see you are still spending all your time saying "thats not what he meant .....but his actions and their cost are a matter of FACT and you can't talk them away -
  • Franklin Franklin 2012/07/19 13:12:23
    Franklin
    Obama said owner libtard- you might want to listen to the speech before posting anymore lies.
  • TheBorg Franklin 2012/07/20 02:47:39 (edited)
    TheBorg
    OMG, you have got to keep posting and responding to people because your imagination and lies have me rolling on the ground in hysterical laughter..
    Photobucket

    "Owner" is said twice in his speech, "We’ve got to deal with homeownership..." and "...I want to help America’s homeowners."

    Are you really that stupid that you don't know how easy it is to do a search on a web page or any electronic document? I'm betting you didn't make it past the 8th grade. Do a search for "owner" on his speech and all you get is two references to "owner" and both are in the word "homeownership".

    I love your lying and crying, it is just so damned entertaining.
    owner speech references owner homeownership love lying crying damned entertaining

    Thank you for being a beacon to remind us all that for every person like you who's intelligence is far below the average stupid person, there is a person just as far above the average stupid person, like me.
    remind person intelligence average stupid person person average stupid person
  • TheBorg TheBorg 2012/07/20 02:54:46
  • flowerl... TheBorg 2012/07/17 01:55:37
    flowerlady112
    +3
    Blah, Blah, Blah - The workers get paid a wage and benefits they agreed upon and that is all they deserve. If they want more they should start their own business!!!!
  • TheBorg flowerl... 2012/07/17 01:57:10 (edited)
    TheBorg
    "The workers get paid a wage and benefits they agreed upon..."
    Wow, you are the first extreme liberal right-winger that I know of that supports unions.
  • Quietma... flowerl... 2012/07/17 16:29:53
  • Franklin flowerl... 2012/07/19 13:11:23
    Franklin
    Born is a funny little fellow ...ever ready to tell us what Obama really meant and why we should NEVER take BHO at his word ....unless liberals like what he said then its true . LOL
  • Command... TheBorg 2012/07/17 05:47:13
    Commander Pyle
    Uhm, no. I guess when he started bringing up public roads and the internet, he had nordstrom's employees in mind.
  • Zoomie TheBorg 2012/07/17 07:13:32
    Zoomie
    +3
    I notice dispite lots of ref's to where you can read EXACTLY what Obama actually said, none of the wingnuts bother to actually read it. They're happy to believe Faux and their brethren that Obama said something horrific...

    Well, HERE is EXACTLY what he said:

    "There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

    If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

    The point is, is that when w...

    I notice dispite lots of ref's to where you can read EXACTLY what Obama actually said, none of the wingnuts bother to actually read it. They're happy to believe Faux and their brethren that Obama said something horrific...

    Well, HERE is EXACTLY what he said:

    "There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

    If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

    The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

    Gee...I don't see anything wrong or objectionable there! Guess that's why Faux and Friends decided to edit (and lie)...again...
    (more)
  • Jackie ... Zoomie 2012/07/17 13:15:07
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    Key phrase: "If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen." Simple proves unequivocally that He is completely out of touch with reality of business - when a business fails there is no "together" - the speech is rot
  • TheBorg Jackie ... 2012/07/19 01:55:05
    TheBorg
    No the key phrase is "...we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."
    Photobucket
  • Jackie ... TheBorg 2012/07/19 02:45:11
  • TheBorg Jackie ... 2012/07/19 03:07:09
    TheBorg
    key ~ "a text that explains or gives information about a work" World Englsih Dictionary
    Phrase ~ "a sequence of two or more words arranged in a grammatical construction and acting as a unit in a sentence" Dictionary.com

    Although he did say that it doesn't explain or sum up the entire speech so by definition of what a "key phrase" is, yours is not. I would suggest taking a high school English class or two.
    explain sum speech definition key phrase high school english class
  • ģhøṡτ øώl TheBorg 2012/07/17 12:43:51
    ģhøṡτ øώl
    +1
    HE SAID "SMALL BUSINESS", YOU IDIOT. SMALL BUSINESSES DON'T HAVE CEO's. You're an idiot.
  • Franklin TheBorg 2012/07/17 13:01:02
    Franklin
    what risk does the worker take ? what does the worker put into starting a company and what do they lose if it fails ??????????
  • Jackie ... Franklin 2012/07/17 13:15:15
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    Not much - they get paid for their time and move on if it folds - the owner takes all the risk, puts in the hours, blood, sweat and tears. When they fail, there is no "together".
  • Franklin Jackie ... 2012/07/19 13:17:40
    Franklin
    funny how liberals tend to be hourly workers and like to pretend they are owed more than they get paid but I never see them there after hours working by my side to keep the company going ...and they never go to the bank with me to borrow money (against MY house) to make payroll ....funny how those of us who pay taxes and pay half of their SSI are all evil+ rich and they don't want or need to know any of the reality of the economy or taxes to know everything.....
  • Raithere TheBorg 2012/07/17 14:18:38
    Raithere
    +1
    While I agree that the quotation was taken out of context I do have a few points of contention.

    "It is not the CEO who is taking the risk when creating a business, it is the worker."

    This is incorrect, it is the investors who are taking the risk. Employees get paid for their time. Investors risk losing their investment.

    "What CEO has every lost their home, needed to be retrained, or lost their life savings trying to make ends meet after a business went under or they got fired?"

    Hundreds of them, thousands. You forget the thousands of small business owners who are CEOs of their own companies with the few hundred that run giant corporations. The small business owner is putting everything on the line, and they get screwed the most.

    "What I heard from Obama is that one man cannot make a successful business without good workers and good workers should be recognized for their contribution to the organization."

    The main point of that segment of Obama's speech was, "what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more", and what followed was his reasoning why they should.

    Though I don't disagree that wealthy corporations and individuals should pay more I disagree with his reasoning completely. I also find that the problem is not the tax rate, but upon what we are levying the...

    While I agree that the quotation was taken out of context I do have a few points of contention.

    "It is not the CEO who is taking the risk when creating a business, it is the worker."

    This is incorrect, it is the investors who are taking the risk. Employees get paid for their time. Investors risk losing their investment.

    "What CEO has every lost their home, needed to be retrained, or lost their life savings trying to make ends meet after a business went under or they got fired?"

    Hundreds of them, thousands. You forget the thousands of small business owners who are CEOs of their own companies with the few hundred that run giant corporations. The small business owner is putting everything on the line, and they get screwed the most.

    "What I heard from Obama is that one man cannot make a successful business without good workers and good workers should be recognized for their contribution to the organization."

    The main point of that segment of Obama's speech was, "what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more", and what followed was his reasoning why they should.

    Though I don't disagree that wealthy corporations and individuals should pay more I disagree with his reasoning completely. I also find that the problem is not the tax rate, but upon what we are levying the most taxes (payroll vs income) as well as the special dispensations, subsidies, and tax breaks that are given to busniesses and sectors with the largest profits.

    Just raising the marginal and capital gains tax rates will do f--k all to address these issues.
    (more)
  • TheBorg Raithere 2012/07/19 02:05:15
    TheBorg
    +1
    You bring up good points. I am a bit on the fence but I don't think companies or corporations should be taxed. I am more annoyed about the inconsistency. If corporations are people and can contribute (other countries call it bribes) to a politician then they should be taxes at a progressive rate like the rest of us (I like the top marginal tax rate of 92% like in 1952 & 1953). if they are not people, then no contributions (bribes) and no taxes.

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.or...
  • Raithere TheBorg 2012/07/19 05:39:37
    Raithere
    I can see your point about not taxing corporations, in some ways it would be more equitable, like sales tax, it is regressive in that the tax costs are actually paid by the consumer. I think we'd have to take a hard look at business financial regulations though I can see a lot of potential ways to dodge income taxes there.

    92% is far too high however, the Laffer Curve indicates there should be an opitmal point of taxation that gains the most revenue. Tax too high and the economy slows, tax to low and revenue drops while adding nothing to the economy. There is some evidence that we should be increasing the tax rate but only to around 32-36% (overall).

    As to contributions I'm split on this issue. While I completely understand your point, and I agree with it on a personal level, as a business owner with my business in a different district that the one I live in I am frustrated that I have no say in legislation for that district. On the other hand I agree that contributions and campaign spending is out of hand and subverts democracy.

    Mostly though, we need to simplify and make the tax codes comprehensible. There are far too many twist and loopholes that allow politicians to give favors to some at the expense of the rest of us and have made it so confounding that no one understands it.
  • Franklin Raithere 2012/07/19 13:22:00
    Franklin
    corporations pay taxes - he was saying the rate should be progressive instead of flat as it is now ...he has wet dreams about growing government with some mythical MEGA taxes on fictional money he thinks corporations have ...just as he "believes" rich people and companies will work HARDER if they get a chance to make LESS money .....
  • Raithere Franklin 2012/07/19 17:47:28
    Raithere
    Well, he stated "I am a bit on the fence but I don't think companies or corporations should be taxed". So I was addressing it as such.
  • TheBorg Raithere 2012/07/20 00:09:16
    TheBorg
    +1
    The 92% was more tongue-in-cheek. I just picked that number because it was the highest I could find and I figured loonies like Franklin would get all bent out of shape.

    I see your point on being able to vote in the district that your business resides. Without giving it much thought I really don't have a problem with that. I would and do have a problem with businesses instead of individuals giving money to politicians.

    So, again without giving it much thought, I'd say allow the small business owner to vote in the district their business resides and allow them to contribute as an individual to politicians but the business should not be allowed to vote nor should the business be allowed to contribute money to politicians, and the business would not have to pay any taxes but the individuals who own the business would pay a progress tax just like everyone else, without loop-holes.
  • Franklin TheBorg 2012/07/19 13:20:04
    Franklin
    Unions are not people and as long as liberal scum like you can steal TAX dollars and bribe government the rest of us have the absolute RIGHT to form groups and do the same thing .
  • TheBorg Franklin 2012/07/20 00:10:30
    TheBorg
    How is ALEC any different than a union?
  • Ronni TheBorg 2012/07/17 14:41:33
    Ronni
    +2
    Of the rich, by the rich and for the rich. America has been bought and sold so long ago. Common man gets enough not to riot. You summed up the way it is.
  • elijaho... TheBorg 2012/07/17 15:18:00
    elijahomar496
    +1
    You got it !! Smart very smart..every ounce of that is the truth.
  • Carrie TheBorg 2012/07/17 15:18:01
    Carrie
    +1
    Did we listen to the same speech? That is not what he said at all. Let's use GE as an example. They are in bed with Obama, gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to his campaign and paid zero taxes two years ago. Do you feel it's ok for them to make a huge profit and not Koch brothers?
  • Franklin Carrie 2012/07/19 13:24:53
    Franklin
    +1
    yup ! that is exactly what Borg is saying ....its OK for GM to not pay taxes as long as his buddies are running it and helping democrats win elections ...but that dam 2% of the GDP that companies and the rich are taking must be given to government so they can add it to the 50% of the GDP they are already spending !
    Liberals want nothing to do with FACTS it gets in the way of the hate they live on -
  • Brother Bo TheBorg 2012/07/17 16:07:19
    Brother Bo
    +2
    Those people didn't have jobs to lose. The corporations, the business owners, etc. have jobs and they have the option of offering those jobs to those who want them. IT"S NOT YOUR JOB TO LOSE. IT IS THE BUSINESS OWNER'S JOBS. They just offer you the jobs to make their business successful. If you want to have a job, start your own business and you will have jobs to give or lose, etc. I didn't lose MY job at X Company. Z Company no longer had a job available to offer me, so I was let go. See. It wasn't My job, it was THEIRS.
  • TheBorg Brother Bo 2012/07/19 02:08:17
    TheBorg
    So you are pro union then?
  • Brother Bo TheBorg 2012/07/19 02:14:18
    Brother Bo
    +1
    "Labor union " is just a euphanism for "Organised crime" So, no. I am NOT pro Union.
  • TheBorg Brother Bo 2012/07/19 02:28:42
    TheBorg
    How is ALEC any different than a union?
  • Brother Bo TheBorg 2012/07/19 18:53:45
    Brother Bo
    Who is ALEC?
  • TheBorg Brother Bo 2012/07/19 23:57:14

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