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Are the Rich Responsible for Their Own Success? (President Obama Thinks Not)

Chris D 2012/07/16 21:00:00
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The quote in question is from a recent presidential speech in Virginia is: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.' What in the world could President Obama have meant by that?

DAILYMAIL.CO.UK reports:
In a speech in Roanoke, Virginia, the President said: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that'. It sparked a furious response from the National Federation of Independent Businesses on Monday, who said it showed an 'utter lack of understanding'.
sparked furious response national federation independent businesses onmonday utter understanding

Read More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174160/Ob...

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  • TheBorg 2012/07/16 23:22:21 (edited)
    What the... ?
    TheBorg
    +45
    WTF? Never seen a quote taken more out of context. What I heard was that the workers of a company have a part in making that company successful and should be recognized by the company for their hard work. It is not the CEO who is taking the risk when creating a business, it is the worker.

    My case in point: in 2012 the Koch brothers made 11 billion in profit yet still laid off over 25% of their workers in Green Bay, many middle aged. Now they need to find retraining, find a job, and still support their families. Most ended up losing their homes or at the very least downsizing. What CEO has every lost their home, needed to be retrained, or lost their life savings trying to make ends meet after a business went under or they got fired?

    What I heard from Obama is that one man cannot make a successful business without good workers and good workers should be recognized for their contribution to the organization. Currently the climate is that only the CEO is of any importance and should take advantage of their workers any way they can.

    workers workers recognized contribution organization climate ceo importance advantage workers

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  • PDenoli ZenerSix 2012/07/17 16:00:52
    PDenoli
    I have in my hands an elephant repellant. I know it works because - no elephants are in my room. That's an ancient joke. I'll reference the joke in this way... I brush my teeth twice a day. I *CAN* make a ridiculous argument though a series of cause-and-effect scenarios that this act of teeth brushing benefits you. I can therefore leap to the conclusion that any success you experience is based on my efforts. Certainly, we both agree that my mere insistence doesn't make it so.

    Likewise, we could be like Obama and advocate the pillaging of private wealth in order to employ armies of bureaucrats and enable the funding of massive slush funds... and then we can *claim* that any success that manages to escape our claws was due to the existence of the bureaucrats and slush funds. Again, insistence doesn't make it so, and it is equally likely that success happened *in spite* of Government's efforts.

    I think people are confusing the ability to make an assertion with the ability to prove an assertion. If I manage to succeed despite the oppressive regulatory burden placed upon me, that does not automatically credit the burden for being responsible for the success. It's illogical and absurd. I think he only makes these statements because he knows no matter how absurd he is, there ...



    I have in my hands an elephant repellant. I know it works because - no elephants are in my room. That's an ancient joke. I'll reference the joke in this way... I brush my teeth twice a day. I *CAN* make a ridiculous argument though a series of cause-and-effect scenarios that this act of teeth brushing benefits you. I can therefore leap to the conclusion that any success you experience is based on my efforts. Certainly, we both agree that my mere insistence doesn't make it so.

    Likewise, we could be like Obama and advocate the pillaging of private wealth in order to employ armies of bureaucrats and enable the funding of massive slush funds... and then we can *claim* that any success that manages to escape our claws was due to the existence of the bureaucrats and slush funds. Again, insistence doesn't make it so, and it is equally likely that success happened *in spite* of Government's efforts.

    I think people are confusing the ability to make an assertion with the ability to prove an assertion. If I manage to succeed despite the oppressive regulatory burden placed upon me, that does not automatically credit the burden for being responsible for the success. It's illogical and absurd. I think he only makes these statements because he knows no matter how absurd he is, there will be those who rush to make a case for it.

    PERHAPS - it could be argued that the regulatory burdens provide a benefit to those who are not partaking in success. At least I would acknowledge there was a point to be made. But this wasn't the point he was making. What he said was ludicrous on the face of it, and it was said (it seems from their cheers) in order to pander to the audience. I presume they wanted some affirmation that their lack of success was just as good if not superior to others' success.

    We live in very odd and jealous times, it seems. The extent to which success is being vilified is extraordinary. I presume it's a political calculation. Perhaps I hope that's all there is to it. And if it isn't for political purposes, for what purpose is this being done? I'm curious about these things. I'd like to know. Maybe you can explain why it is a good thing to vilify success and foment envy. It's all very Kristallnacht to me.
    (more)
  • k fleming 2012/07/16 22:40:43
    Yes, of couse they are!
    k fleming
  • Soundstorm 2012/07/16 22:37:37
    Yes, of couse they are!
    Soundstorm
    +11
    What government grant helped Thomas Edison invent the light bulb?
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/16 22:58:25 (edited)
    lee
    +2
    the one that provided him with a stable citizenry who would even be interested in having electricity wired to their property by someone
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/17 06:13:16
    Soundstorm
    A stable citizenry elect that government. Not the other way around. Government doesn't have the power to make a society civil and stable no matter how many laws and police it has at its disposal. The freedom and civility that enabled creativity was written in people's character in Thomas Edison's time.
  • tesmith47 Soundstorm 2012/07/17 18:09:08
    tesmith47
    BS!!! Edison stole the real functioning product from an Black engineer,
  • Soundstorm tesmith47 2012/07/20 00:39:57
    Soundstorm
    You're a poor writer with no argument. I blame the public school system. But I'm not letting your parents off the hook either.
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/17 18:26:05
    lee
    you might want to take that up with the founders who wrote the Constitution.. the Preamble especially speaks to just that very point.
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/20 00:47:24
    Soundstorm
    As if you cared about anything in the Constitution.
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/22 03:45:35
    lee
    i keep it right here....

    http://www.usconstitution.net...

    at the top of my favorites
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/22 05:21:25
    Soundstorm
    You can find it on the internet but you're still so ignorant about it.
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/22 05:40:46
    lee
    what do know that I don't?

    is there a secret decoder ring only right wingers get to have?
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/22 09:15:33
    Soundstorm
    Your ideology is the opposite of a decoder ring. It completely distorts your understanding of the Constitution's purpose. You believe it established government to rule over the citizens. It's the citizens who are meant to rule over government.
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/22 19:38:13 (edited)
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/23 02:09:37
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/23 03:54:46
    lee
    there are so many things wrong with that statement I hardly know where to start.

    so, i'll just pass.
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/23 08:34:28
    Soundstorm
    I believe it's your indoctrinated little brain that has many things wrong with it which would explain why you're incapable of dealing with the clear logic of that statement. So stay comfortably ignorant and don't strain your little grey cells wrestling with notions outside of your tight little closed box of left wing ideology.
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/23 16:59:52
    lee
    logic?

    come again?
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/24 02:05:17
    Soundstorm
    Don't even try. It's obviously beyond your grade level.
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/24 18:06:25
    lee
    start using some and we'll see about that.
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/25 21:52:46
    Soundstorm
    Your fundamental problem is you wouldn't comprehend logic if it was a grand piano dropped on your head. Now do you want to talk about whether the rich are responsible for their own successes or are you just going to keep on boring me with your little troll tag games?
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/26 01:59:52
    lee
    no body ever said they weren't ... just that they didn't do it in a vacuum.

    they had help. and because they had help they should pay something back when they make it over the hump.

    thats really all there is to it.

    partisans want to make into something else so they can bloviate.. well, thats on them.
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/26 02:21:18
    Soundstorm
    I know people don't build their businesses in a vacuum. But what are they supposed to pay and to whom? And considering they already pay the highest taxes which actually built all those roads and bridges which benefit everybody else why should they pay anything more? Would government even be able to build anything or provide services if these businesses didn't even exist?
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/26 16:46:39
    lee
    3% more than they do now, and to the govenment... so the rest of us don't have to keep covering for them.

    they may have the highest "rate" but they never PAY that rate because of all the loophole they can exploit with all the accountants they can affort to hire.

    i can't afford to do that, so I just pay my full share and be done with it.
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/27 03:20:20
    Soundstorm
    The rest of us don't cover for them at all.
    What does our bloated, wasteful, high maintenance government need another 3% for? Why not put government on a diet instead of squeezing the depressed private sector more?

    Garganthua
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/27 17:40:10
    lee
    the oligarchs are not depressed, they are throwing a tantrum...

    big difference.
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/27 22:02:10
    Soundstorm
    Oligarchs? Are those some sort of fantasy creatures in one of your role playing games? Because we don't have anything like that here in the real world.
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/27 22:19:38 (edited)
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/27 22:36:09
    Soundstorm
    Is plutocrat another one? Because I've no more encountered one than elves, orcs or hobbits. I know plenty of trolls though. Like the one I'm replying to right now.
  • lee Soundstorm 2012/07/27 22:37:03
    lee
    if trolls are what you want to call them now, that works for me.
  • Soundstorm lee 2012/07/28 00:35:23
    Soundstorm
    How's it working for you down there?

    Fremont Troll
  • Heisenberg Soundstorm 2012/07/16 23:26:52
    Heisenberg
    +2
    It's like a kidnapper demanding a thank you card for providing room and board.
  • Soundstorm Heisenberg 2012/07/17 06:14:25 (edited)
    Soundstorm
    +1
    I'm afraid I don't get that analogy in Edison's case.
  • Heisenberg Soundstorm 2012/07/17 08:35:09
    Heisenberg
    +1
    Government demanding gratitude from a businessman is like a kidnapper demanding a thank you card for providing room and board.
  • Soundstorm Heisenberg 2012/07/17 08:49:13
    Soundstorm
    +1
    It seems that the politicians, bureaucrats and public administrators today totally lack the self awareness of how pathetic they're making themselves look by grasping for the credit of other people's accomplishments.
  • zeldama... Soundstorm 2012/07/17 00:05:23
    zeldamaster17
    A grant called Nikola Tesla :P BUT that's another story entirely
  • Fortuna... Soundstorm 2012/07/20 15:23:52
    FortunaVeritas
    Who provided the system of patent law that enabled him to make a profit off of it?
  • Soundstorm Fortuna... 2012/07/22 00:09:24
    Soundstorm
    We have a patent law BECAUSE of individuals who invented new breakthroughs in technology in the first place. It was established by them to provide legal protection for their ideas. Patent law didn't exist before invention. And no bureaucrat from the Bureau of Patents helped Edison invent a better light bulb.
  • Rusty Shackleford 2012/07/16 22:36:22
    Yes, of couse they are!
    Rusty Shackleford
    +7
    Yes, the rich are the hardest working and most productive members of society.
  • lee Rusty S... 2012/07/16 23:00:22
    lee
    +1
    so they would have you belive...

    except that productivy has increased in America every year for over a decade now and the ppl who are doing the work have not seen our wages go up?

    whats up with that, eh?

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