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Are the Rich Responsible for Their Own Success? (President Obama Thinks Not)

Chris D 2012/07/16 21:00:00
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The quote in question is from a recent presidential speech in Virginia is: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.' What in the world could President Obama have meant by that?

DAILYMAIL.CO.UK reports:
In a speech in Roanoke, Virginia, the President said: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that'. It sparked a furious response from the National Federation of Independent Businesses on Monday, who said it showed an 'utter lack of understanding'.
sparked furious response national federation independent businesses onmonday utter understanding

Read More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174160/Ob...

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  • TheBorg 2012/07/16 23:22:21 (edited)
    What the... ?
    TheBorg
    +45
    WTF? Never seen a quote taken more out of context. What I heard was that the workers of a company have a part in making that company successful and should be recognized by the company for their hard work. It is not the CEO who is taking the risk when creating a business, it is the worker.

    My case in point: in 2012 the Koch brothers made 11 billion in profit yet still laid off over 25% of their workers in Green Bay, many middle aged. Now they need to find retraining, find a job, and still support their families. Most ended up losing their homes or at the very least downsizing. What CEO has every lost their home, needed to be retrained, or lost their life savings trying to make ends meet after a business went under or they got fired?

    What I heard from Obama is that one man cannot make a successful business without good workers and good workers should be recognized for their contribution to the organization. Currently the climate is that only the CEO is of any importance and should take advantage of their workers any way they can.

    workers workers recognized contribution organization climate ceo importance advantage workers

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  • Helene Tigger Too 2012/07/21 04:57:44
    Helene
    +1
    I suppose you like Paul Krugman and open Socialist economist at the NYT. Start reading the WSJ. I dropped the NYT 3 years ago when I saw how slanted their reporting has become.
  • Tigger Too Helene 2012/08/02 22:22:14
    Tigger Too
    And just WHY would you make that assumption? Whether or not you agree with Paul Krugman, he DID win the Nobel Prize in Economics, which makes him much more qualified than you or I on the subject. Almost every form of the media is slanted toward one direction or the other. However, instead of relying on just one newspaper or one TV news show to get my information about politics, etc., I consult many different sources in order to form a more educated opinion than I would with reviewing exclusively left or right slanted media.
  • dave s Tigger Too 2012/08/11 22:47:34 (edited)
    dave  s
    you are posting a link to a nyt article? as if that is going to be non-biased??

    LOL

    as far as the jobs, why don't you ask obama where they are ? because he said that the unemployment rate would not go over 8% with the stimulus and that at this point in time it would be 5.5%. what is it, something like 3 straight years of unemployment being over 8%.

    raising taxes on the "rich" will go a long way toward fiscal responsibility?????? do you really believe the words that are coming out of your mouth?????

    Try this on for size dumbo: Q. if obama gets his tax increase on the "rich" people like he wants, do you know how much money it will bring into the feds coffers on an annual basis??? A. a bit over $4 billion. that's it.
    Q. do you know how much our deficits have averaged over the last 4 years???? A. $1.1 trillion.

    so by my reckoning, the money brought in by taxing the very people who are already paying a large amount of taxes will bring in about 4/10 of a per cent in extra taxes to the feds. now just how do you reconcile your statement that it will "go a long way towards fiscal responsibility"???????????

    try turning off npr and stop reading the nyt and actually research the facts for yourself.
  • Apache Tigger Too 2012/07/17 03:14:42
    Apache
    +1
    Jealous?
  • Reichstolz Tigger Too 2012/07/17 03:22:09
    Reichstolz
    They pay the more of the costs than those who aren't wealthy.
  • Helene Tigger Too 2012/07/21 04:55:41
    Helene
    Do you not realize that all those services put people to work, gave them pensions and healthcare. And who paid for that - the personal and corporate tax of rich people. There would be no govt without them. Do you think money grows on trees? Obama is borrowing 40cents on every dollar he spends. If more jobs were created, more taxes would be paid into the Federal Gov't. That's how Reagan did it. He lowered the tax rate so businesses would invest (on their own) and grow their companies - HIRE more people - who in turn pay taxes. Less workers, less tax revenue. Obama wants to strangle the job creators so that people are dependent on the govt. The rich are leaving France with the new president. Where will France get all those millions in lost taxes?
  • Tigger Too Helene 2012/08/02 22:30:48
    Tigger Too
    Ronald Reagan, although one of my favorite presidents, completely missed the mark on trickle-down economics. Making things like tax policy that help the wealthy, and then relying on their good fortune to trickle down to the middle and poor classes, is misguided economic policy. Once again, I ask -- if the Bush tax cuts were so great for the wealthy jobs creators, then where in the hell are all those jobs? A healthy upper class economy does not make for a healthy economy overall. The disparity between the incomes of the rich and the poor grows daily, and the middle class is being squeezed out. And you can't blame President Obama for this entire economic mess. Should he be doing better? Of course he should. However, he's facing a Congress in which the Republicans have shut down every piece of substantial legislation he's proposed. Actually, we need a return to the economic policies of Bill Clinton, because HE was successful in improving the lives of EVERY American family, not just the rich.
  • Sterling 2012/07/17 02:50:45
    Yes, of couse they are!
    Sterling
    +3
    Part of what Obama was saying was true, yes people have help along the road to success: employees (who the employer pays), public services (which are paid for by tax payers, I.E. small business owners), loans (which are paid back with interest), and investors (who in turn are rewarded with dividends or shares of the company's profitability).

    So basically yeah.... Obama was full of it.
  • ScatterJoy! 2012/07/17 02:45:27
    What the... ?
    ScatterJoy!
    +1
    I think it's insane to believe we're all isolated and totally not dependent on one another. In that same breath, it's difficult to pinpoint exactly how much is "owed" another when one is successful.
    I'm not rich, so I'm not worrying about it. Why don't they just create a freaking flat tax rate and be quiet about inequality already?
  • Sterling Scatter... 2012/07/17 02:52:36
    Sterling
    +1
    The thing is, the rich already pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes. What is "owed" is not subjective, they pay a fair tax rate and pay all of the employees who "helped" them to the top (people seem to forget that employees are getting "helped" by getting a job as well).
  • Ramón Sterling 2012/07/17 02:55:58
    Ramón
    +1
    When the CEOs make killer salaries and have golden parachutes... even as the corporations slides downhill into red ink... that is wrong! Their pay should be reduced to real world values, perhaps no more than 50X the lowest paid worker, and then if the company profits, they can profit... if not, then they don't. Sort of like earning the bonus if the company profits.
  • Sterling Ramón 2012/07/17 03:09:05
    Sterling
    That's a noble belief, unfortunately it doesn't work.
  • Scatter... Sterling 2012/07/17 02:59:25
    ScatterJoy!
    Well, I can say that in my current job (which I hope doesn't turn into a career) my boss tacks day trips to NYC and flies first class, spending upwards of $3000 on plane tix alone, without blinking an eye.
    ....I think money brings with it certain responsibilities - and with responsibilities come obligations. If they're really that rich though, they'll just buy off government officials and create the law the way they see fit. ....hmmmm
  • MLor 2012/07/17 02:28:20
    No, they've gotten help from others.
    MLor
    They're responsible for the ideas, and opening they're own businesses, but I see few who grew without workers. No rich or big company grows on they're own....common sense.
  • Sterling MLor 2012/07/17 02:52:50
    Sterling
    +1
    Who pays the workers?
  • MLor Sterling 2012/07/17 03:21:18
    MLor
    True. So? You still need otber people to grow your business.
  • Sterling MLor 2012/07/17 06:22:01
    Sterling
    +1
    Sure you "need" labor to grow your business, just like you need capital, infrastructure and materials. Just like employees also need you, to give them agreed upon wages. It's a mutually beneficial relationship where each individual is responsible for their choices. I CHOSE to hire on people, I didn't HAVE to. I didn't HAVE to grow my business. The statement Obama made really assumes that the businessmen have no choice, that they will have their business, and that they will have little say in whether it flourishes, because they are at the mercy of all their workers, the government, or the environment itself. While this is partly true, it simply means that when someone becomes successful, they become successful IN SPITE OF these factors.

    Every individual is responsible for their choices: whether or not to use the system in place, hire workers, invest in themselves, or diversify their business. Many people choose not to go out on a limb and create a business because of the large risk. Those people become employees (or welfare recipients) and can be moderately successful, or can even invest their money, take a calculated risk and become wildly successful or possibly fail. Even though the system in place uses cooperation between people, each individual is still responsible for their...
    Sure you "need" labor to grow your business, just like you need capital, infrastructure and materials. Just like employees also need you, to give them agreed upon wages. It's a mutually beneficial relationship where each individual is responsible for their choices. I CHOSE to hire on people, I didn't HAVE to. I didn't HAVE to grow my business. The statement Obama made really assumes that the businessmen have no choice, that they will have their business, and that they will have little say in whether it flourishes, because they are at the mercy of all their workers, the government, or the environment itself. While this is partly true, it simply means that when someone becomes successful, they become successful IN SPITE OF these factors.

    Every individual is responsible for their choices: whether or not to use the system in place, hire workers, invest in themselves, or diversify their business. Many people choose not to go out on a limb and create a business because of the large risk. Those people become employees (or welfare recipients) and can be moderately successful, or can even invest their money, take a calculated risk and become wildly successful or possibly fail. Even though the system in place uses cooperation between people, each individual is still responsible for their own success. Just like if I create a cure for cancer... Maybe I need ten thousand people to start producing the vaccines, even then, I alone am responsible for the creation of the PRODUCT itself. The money is an afterthought, the success is in the creation of the product. Whether or not people want to be employed in its creation, or buy the vaccine, is now THEIR choice. Most people who are rich are responsible for their success. That's simply not a popular belief because it means the poor are also responsible for their lack of success. Unfortunately whether or not something is popular or not has nothing to do with whether or not it is true.
    (more)
  • MLor Sterling 2012/07/17 19:29:48
    MLor
    +1
    Agreed.
  • Reichstolz MLor 2012/07/17 03:22:51
    Reichstolz
    Without the company does the employee work? Without the company does the road get built?
  • MLor Reichstolz 2012/07/17 03:24:54 (edited)
    MLor
    No, and if you refer to my original answer it clears that up, or should. I thought I was pretty clear.
  • Reichstolz MLor 2012/07/17 03:28:43 (edited)
    Reichstolz
    My first business I started when I was 8 for $35. I sold it when I was 17 for $135,000, I had one employee for the last year prior to selling. It was me and solely me, your analogy smacks of someone who knows no one who is wealthy, that is clear.
  • MLor Reichstolz 2012/07/17 03:30:10
    MLor
    Wonderful! I guess you can retire now.
  • MLor Reichstolz 2012/07/17 03:33:23
    MLor
    I know plenty of people that are wealthy....but I'm a common man...a workin' stiff doing my part to help and protect this wealthy country. Thank you.
  • BigFig#9 2012/07/17 02:27:53
    No, they've gotten help from others.
    BigFig#9
    +1
    Without good employees, a sound governmental structure and justice system, etc... you can't succeed in business. Higher education, transportation and communication infrastructure provided mainly as a result of government policy is why American business has prospered and now, foolishly, many would rather that we no longer make those investments.
  • Sterling BigFig#9 2012/07/17 02:53:10
    Sterling
    +1
    Who pays the taxes?
  • BigFig#9 Sterling 2012/07/17 02:56:56
    BigFig#9
    Everybody and yes I pay more - nevertheless I needed a sound societal structure to succeed, well educated employees, and a great environment for logistics. No matter how smart you are you won't succeed on the same level in a 3rd rate country.
  • Reichstolz BigFig#9 2012/07/17 03:23:55
    Reichstolz
    American business is footing the lion's share of that bill, talk about sacrifice what does someone who supports no cost of government provide?
  • BigFig#9 Reichstolz 2012/07/17 17:52:16
    BigFig#9
    American business thrives in the environment that our public sector has created and needs to maintain... Large parts of our transportation system are not being maintained and there is no practical way for American Businesses independently to address this need. In a combination of fiscal tax and fiscal spending policy this is something that only Government can do. Unfortunately this very basic analysis doesn't seem to work in the Tea Party.
  • Reichstolz BigFig#9 2012/07/18 05:00:22
    Reichstolz
    What came first the car or the government road? Unfortunately you do not understand personal responsibility or fiscal constraint.
  • BigFig#9 Reichstolz 2012/07/18 16:38:46
    BigFig#9
    I don't understand these? You know this about me how? Have we met?
    Part of personal responsibility is our responsibility to the community, its growth and to it's future. Personal responsibility as defined by the fringe right views each individual as a selfish island. Reading of Donne is recommended. Fiscal Constraint - really? Fiscal restraint as defined by a party who turned a surplus to deficit and ran two un-financed wars and didn't have the kahonas to tell people that wars cost money AND then doubled down with a tax break and said 'deficits don't matter'. Is that the kind of fiscal restraint we need?
  • Reichstolz BigFig#9 2012/07/18 16:45:01
    Reichstolz
    What part of "personal" don't you understand? If we are "personally" responsible, there is no need for collectivism, which is what you mean by community. Personal responsibility is not selfish, it is the greatest form of caring. If you are not personally responsible and rely on the community, that is the definition of selfish.
    First there has been no government budget surplus since 1835. Unfunded liabilities are not budgetary items, you are believing a lie. Tax breaks do not lead to deficits spending more than you have does. I never claimed either party understands fiscal restraint, it is antithetical to politics. Hard to get elected unless you can show you are redistributing money back to your electorate.
  • BigFig#9 Reichstolz 2012/07/18 17:00:19
    BigFig#9
    Deficits are income less expenses where the second is greater than the first. If you reduce the first through tax breaks then you have clearly increased the deficit. As to definition of personal responsibility outside of a survivalist in a bunker somewhere in the backwoods your responsibility will always extend to those around you. Man is a social animal and has always been a social animal and that is as central to our success as a species as it is to ants or gorillas or killer whales or any of the other social animals on the planet.
  • Reichstolz BigFig#9 2012/07/18 17:02:07
    Reichstolz
    So if you reduce spending you reduce deficits. Allowing a person to keep their labor is not an expense. If a killer whale doesn't hunt with the pod does it eat? If an ape doesn't forage does it eat?
  • BigFig#9 Reichstolz 2012/07/18 17:09:17
    BigFig#9
    Well actually a sick killer whale and a sick ape will be fed by the herd so those may be bad examples for you. You might want to polish up on animal behaviour. Better example might have been some other lower functioning life forms where this doesn't happen like insect and rodent colonies...and of course if you feel those are better conservative models I won't disagree... : )
  • Reichstolz BigFig#9 2012/07/18 23:04:23
    Reichstolz
    You might want to spend some more time educating yourself. Whales will kill a member of the pod, that they see as weak. Apes remove themselves from the troop when unable to keep up.
  • BigFig#9 Reichstolz 2012/07/23 20:59:13
    BigFig#9
    Make up what you will and I'm sure there's a little bit of both but Whales will help lift an ailing pod member to the surface to breathe and will also bring marine mammals (seals usually) for an ailing Pod member... http://www.whale-and-dolphin-... As to Gorilla's, at the Woodland Park ZOO I observed other Gorillas collecting grasses for a failing troop mate. So they are probably like humans a LOT in that they will sometimes assist others and sometimes desert others and even sometimes kill others in their group.
  • Reichstolz BigFig#9 2012/07/24 03:08:44
    Reichstolz
    Yes and at the San Diego Zoo I observed them dismembering a weak member of the troop.
  • wilsonmja 2012/07/17 02:26:18
    Yes, of couse they are!
    wilsonmja
    +2
    In general, absolutely. Some people inherit their wealth or win the lottery, but that is very few of the rich. Most rich people made very smart business decisions and found a way to take full advantage of the capitalistic system that we have. Like it or not, it is what it is.
  • smilinbobs 2012/07/17 02:19:09
    What the... ?
    smilinbobs
    +1
    I didn't hear the full speech of the president, but there are three kinds of rich people. The self made, the hand me downs and one that have made it at expense of many others. The statement could easily refer to the Hand me downs and the live off the backs of others.
  • mikeeonly 2012/07/17 02:17:06
    What the... ?
    mikeeonly
    +2
    Some were just in the right place at the right time. Others, of course have made their own fortunes.

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