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Are the Rich Responsible for Their Own Success? (President Obama Thinks Not)

Chris D 2012/07/16 21:00:00
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The quote in question is from a recent presidential speech in Virginia is: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.' What in the world could President Obama have meant by that?

DAILYMAIL.CO.UK reports:
In a speech in Roanoke, Virginia, the President said: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that'. It sparked a furious response from the National Federation of Independent Businesses on Monday, who said it showed an 'utter lack of understanding'.
sparked furious response national federation independent businesses onmonday utter understanding

Read More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174160/Ob...

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  • TheBorg 2012/07/16 23:22:21 (edited)
    What the... ?
    TheBorg
    +45
    WTF? Never seen a quote taken more out of context. What I heard was that the workers of a company have a part in making that company successful and should be recognized by the company for their hard work. It is not the CEO who is taking the risk when creating a business, it is the worker.

    My case in point: in 2012 the Koch brothers made 11 billion in profit yet still laid off over 25% of their workers in Green Bay, many middle aged. Now they need to find retraining, find a job, and still support their families. Most ended up losing their homes or at the very least downsizing. What CEO has every lost their home, needed to be retrained, or lost their life savings trying to make ends meet after a business went under or they got fired?

    What I heard from Obama is that one man cannot make a successful business without good workers and good workers should be recognized for their contribution to the organization. Currently the climate is that only the CEO is of any importance and should take advantage of their workers any way they can.

    workers workers recognized contribution organization climate ceo importance advantage workers

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  • DemonChild SW 2012/07/19 19:10:44
    DemonChild
    +1
    Could any of us grow up without our mothers? NO! So of course we have a foundation set for us.
  • SW DemonChild 2012/07/19 19:48:30
    SW
    +3
    It's funny you should say that because the whole "did it all on thier own" thing totally reminds me of teenagers who think the mortgage, power, food and so on just gets paid for by magic, and they're very independent.
  • DemonChild SW 2012/07/19 19:52:13 (edited)
    DemonChild
    Yes your right, but there also are billionaires who started out selling nothing but flowers. I don't know a single rich person who got that rich by .5 million dollars of welfare. But a majority of rich people are just smart.
  • bt sedlock DemonChild 2012/07/21 00:24:37
    bt sedlock
    That's right.
  • Jkirk3279 DemonChild 2012/07/23 19:30:33
    Jkirk3279
    +1
    Can you list billionaire flower merchants? This is interesting.
  • SW DemonChild 2012/07/23 20:15:57
    SW
    +1
    I've known some abysmally stupid rich people believe me. And I know there are lots of people who have worked hard to make it and wouldn't dream of disbaraging their success --but even those people are hurt and denied opportunities by the system we have now. Those people could have had much more success if we weren't so top-heavy.

    I just think our society has gotten to the point where it's really easy to get richer if you're already well-off, but too difficult to make ends meet for most people. It wasn't always that way, we used to have the strongest middle-class the world had ever seen, but now 1% of the people have over 30% of the wealth. They might be smarter but they're not THAT much smarter... and nobody makes that much money without a lot of "little people" doing a lot of the work.

    In fact, and I know this is sacrilege for some people, but I honestly don't think any one person can physically do enough in a single lifetime to actually rightfully "earn" a billion dollars. Millions, maybe. If they have a billion dollars it means somewhere somebody --probably a lot of somebodies got cheated and there's something wrong with the system that created that disparity. It's not even their fault, it's just the whole setup is continually skewed to funnel money from the middle class to the uber rich. And anyone who wants to make sure the rest of us have any opportunities at all is called a "communist" by their PR firms.
  • amoobrasil SW 2012/08/20 13:56:28
    amoobrasil
    You are so right, SW. I suggest that we define "earn". I do not thing that a multi-millionaire earns all he made if he did so by taking value from society (denying people a living wage, gambling away pensions on Wall St., etc.). I propose that what one truly earns is the value of what he gives back to society--not what he takes from it, illegally or legally.
  • SW DemonChild 2012/08/06 16:09:28
    SW
    Exactly.
  • COMALite J 2012/07/19 18:36:34 (edited)
    What the... ?
    COMALite J
    +3
    It depends on the individual rich person. Many got it entirely from choosing the right parents. Some are truly self-made (or at least as much as one can be in any society or civilization, which, by definition, involves people helping and depending on each other in various respects). Most are somewhere in-between.

    Oh, and:
  • bt sedlock COMALite J 2012/07/21 01:20:27
    bt sedlock
    Most Republicans became rich through hard work like Alf Landon, the Republican presidential candidate for 1936 who ran against incumbent President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Most Democrats like FDR were born rich. Infact, I heard that there are more rich Democratics in Congress then there are rich Republicans.
  • COMALite J bt sedlock 2012/07/21 05:54:39
    COMALite J
    +1
    It’s not a matter of party. Most current politicians either inherited or married into wealth (I forgot to mention that possibility above). As for what you “heard,” it would depend on how you define “rich.”

    The purpose of the image I posted wasn’t to say that Republicans are more likely to be rich, or more likely to have inherited it. It was simply to point out that Ayn Rand and Jesus Christ are pretty much 180° diametric opposites, and that the Republican Party should choose one and stick with it.
  • amoobrasil COMALite J 2012/07/22 19:01:46
    amoobrasil
    You are perceptive, COMALife J, but perception is anathema to angry people whose prejudices, fears, and resentments are challenged by fact and truth.

    Republicans follow the "objectivist" ethic of Ayn Rand, who despised Jesus and any teaching that intends to help the needy. To these Republicans, the needy are lazy, stupid, and unworthy of government assistance. What may surprise many is that these Republicans also profess to be Christians!
  • COMALite J amoobrasil 2012/07/22 22:41:13 (edited)
    COMALite J
    Thanks.

    Jesus Himself said, “Ye cannot serve both God and mammon.” Ayn Rand was pretty much the prime worshiper of mammon (money above all else) in her day.

    Were I still the Bible-believing Christian that I used to be, I would strongly suspect that the modern right-wing “Christianity” espoused by so many in the Republican Party is none other than the Second Beast, aka the False Prophet, prophesied in Revelation, that would pretend to be Christ-like yet deceive its worshipers into worshiping the First Beast, often mis-called “the Antichrist” (John the Revelator never actually used that term in Revelation — I suspect that he used “Beast” to refer to both because they were entities that were not Persons but which would be considered to be like unto Persons — Aggregate Personhood in the USA makes both corporations and non-profits such as political parties and churches into pseudo-Persons under the law! See also Citizens United).

    Another Bible prophecy warns against those who would call good evil, and evil good. Ayn Rand called altruism evil, and selfishness (er, “enlightened self-interest”) good. Jesus flatly said that altruism was good and selfishness evil, repeatedly.
  • amoobrasil COMALite J 2012/07/22 23:41:14
    amoobrasil
    I hope someone else besides me appreciates the insight of your posting. As far as I, a Judeo-Christian, am concerned, Revelations was about the immediate state of what would become the Christian church. It had nothing to do with today.
  • COMALite J amoobrasil 2012/07/23 01:15:20
    COMALite J
    +1
    Yes, the Preterist view. It certainly makes more sense than the End Times view.
  • amoobrasil COMALite J 2012/07/23 01:52:21
    amoobrasil
    +1
    Thank you for using the term "Preterist". I learned just by looking at it that it means viewing Revelations as being in the past preterite tense (one of two simple past tenses in Latin languages.)

    High five, COMALite J!
  • COMALite J amoobrasil 2012/07/25 20:09:38 (edited)
    COMALite J
    Right back atcha.

    What’s really ironic is that Mitt Romney has said on national television that the poor are to blame for their own poverty. Not only the teachings of Jesus, but also the Book of Mormon, flatly forbid that!

    In the Book of Mormon, in Chapter 10 of the Book of Mosiah therein, good King Benjamin (the last King of the Nephites) is giving his great speech to them, and starting in verse 16 or so, he flatly states that not only is it sinful to blame the poor for their own poverty, but that anyone who does so and fails to repent of it stands in dire danger of losing his salvation!
  • SW amoobrasil 2012/08/06 16:13:04
    SW
    Also the rich get TONS of government assistance in the form of grants, subsidies, no bid contacts not to mention who spends millions enforcing the copyrights of billionaire movie producers? I mean pick an industry and they depend on government in so many ways for their profits. Don't even get me started on professional sports.
  • bt sedlock COMALite J 2012/07/25 19:01:51
    bt sedlock
    180 degrees what?
  • Jkirk3279 bt sedlock 2012/07/23 19:31:20
    Jkirk3279
    You heard wrong. The richest people in Congress are Republicans.
  • bt sedlock Jkirk3279 2012/07/25 19:06:45
    bt sedlock
    I think the richest man in the Senate is Senator John Kerry of Massachusets, former Democatic presidential for 1994 who is a billionare but who actually married someone who was billionare heiress.
  • bt sedlock bt sedlock 2012/08/17 15:02:05
    bt sedlock
    I mean Democratic presidential candidate for "2004."
  • Small man big mouth 2012/07/19 18:07:58
    What the... ?
    Small man big mouth
    +1
    What the hell how come no one is handing me a business if what obama says is true? That's cos ITS NOT. Am I expected to believe that businesses just "pop up" out of sheer will? And this garbage about the workers being the ones who built it is retarded. They have no power at all they just work. All the important decisions happen at the top. I hear the stupidest crap come out of obamas mouth and his supporters
  • Diane Small m... 2012/07/20 02:14:11
    Diane
    +1
    This quote was taken out of context.

    Here's the full quote.

    "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build
    that. Somebody else made that happen."

    When he said, "you didn't build that," he was talking about roads and bridges.
  • SW Diane 2012/07/23 20:19:00
    SW
    It's like saying "that ballerina tutu, if you're wearing pants, you didn't put that on..." and they're saying, "What? I didn't put on my pants? Who did?" No no the tutu... you didn't put on the tutu!
  • Juanb 2012/07/19 18:03:43
    No, they've gotten help from others.
    Juanb
    +1
    i would say a good 30% of the rich are responsible for their success
  • SW Juanb 2012/08/06 16:16:30
    SW
    But nobody is 100% unless they did it in a vacum (on an island by themselves). In many ways billionaires depend on government help more than welfare queens. They get corporate subsidies, grants, farm subsidies, special road and building grants special tax priviliges working people just don't get and even what we call "entitlements" end up in the pockets of the wealthy. What do you think happens when someone gets a social security check and buys an ipad? Apple just made money from Social Security! and their major shareholders had to pay WAY less than average people as a percentage so they're getting more and paying less.
  • Juanb SW 2012/08/08 23:50:22
    Juanb
    Some people are 100% responsible for their success they worked their way up from practically nothing.i think that they are outnumbered by people who have been Hooked up or have rich parents even most inventors get the raw end of the stick. its all about who you know thats why Edison got the patent.On another note do you think for a moment that if president Bush was an italian form Newyork with the same charisma and bellow average intelligence he would have gotten to hold the highest office? without his pals?
  • SW Juanb 2012/08/09 12:58:38
    SW
    "they worked their way up from practically nothing." Even in those rare cases where they're not Donald Trump (inherited 34 mil) or Bill Gates (free 4 mil trust fund) --they still couldn't have done that in Somalia or Niger. They were able to do it here because people before them invested in the rich and amazing infrastructure we have.

    You're totally right about inventors. Google the phrase "died in poverty" and you'll find tons of inventors, artists, writers, business pioneers etc who contributed so much to us and the "free market" at the time rewarded them with basically nothing --though lots of people got rich later on from their work and innovation.
  • gocar 2012/07/19 17:32:18
    No, they've gotten help from others.
    gocar
    +1
    The majority of wealth is inherited. Donald Trump started with a hotel in Manhattan.
    Even Bill Gates came from a pretty well to do family. Henry Ford was able to stay home and tinker in he garage. Thomas Edison came from wealthy parents. Not having a start like that is more unusual than winning the lottery. People like Bill Clinton and Obama are the exception rather than the rule.
  • bt sedlock gocar 2012/07/21 01:11:30
    bt sedlock
    Tell me. How was Obama able gain his wealth?
  • amoobrasil bt sedlock 2012/07/22 19:05:14
    amoobrasil
    I think you already know that he earned it. But he gives credit to all who helped him, and he gives recognition to social institutions and infrastructure without which he would have been a financial success.

    We who believe that successful people always get help from others are not saying that successful individuals do not play a key role (sometimes the key role) in attaining their success (not always honestly or morally, unfortunately); we simply repeat the fact that no one succeeds on his own.
  • bt sedlock amoobrasil 2012/07/25 19:13:57
    bt sedlock
    Perhaps not. Alot of people do succeed gain their wealth with family connections or with business partners. But there are plenty of people who have succeeded and attain wealth on their own.
  • amoobrasil bt sedlock 2012/08/20 14:02:07
    amoobrasil
    You statement is so general that no one could disagree with. The problem I have with it is that it is so general, it does not make a point, unless you are somehow trying to imply that there are plenty of people who attained weath with no education, no infrastructure (roads, telephones, business loans, consumers with purchasing power, police protection, etc., etc.).

    No rational person would assert that an American billionaire would have become fabulously wealthy in Afghanistan had he been born into an Afghan tribe with few assets.
  • SW bt sedlock 2012/08/06 16:19:20
    SW
    ...Because of all the opportunities that this great nation offers. And when it's time to pay back a little extra so future generations can enjoy those opportunities he doesn't whine like a little bitch. "Waaaah rich people might have to pay an extra 4% waaah."
  • bt sedlock SW 2012/08/08 05:09:23
    bt sedlock
    Of course. But many rich people are responsible for their own success. Contrary to what our POTUS says.
  • SW bt sedlock 2012/08/08 12:51:21
    SW
    +1
    POTUS never said otherwise. He just said they didn't build the roads or bridges all by themselves. That's all. Anything else is twisting his words around which is a lie. Why would you want to listen to people who lie to you all the time?
  • bt sedlock SW 2012/08/11 04:26:27
    bt sedlock
    President Obama is a socialist. He is bitterly dividing this country even more and more, playing on class division so that he coan get reelected which regretably I think he will.
  • amoobrasil bt sedlock 2012/08/20 15:28:00
    amoobrasil
    No, he is not. When making such wild assertions, please define your terms. What is a socialist? Could it be anyone who believes that we have a collective responsibility to feed the hungry and clothe the naked?

    The second part of your statement is known as projecting in psychology. "Conservatives" (not the kind of conservative I was reared to be) today resort to accusing people who believe in our collective duty to practice the Golden Rule of dividing the American people. If fact, it is GOP propaganda, paid for by the likes of the Koch Brothers, that seeks to pander to angry whites and fuel their resentment.

    The aristocracy for all of recorded history has kept itself in power by a carrot-and-stick approach to governance. It rewards those who knuckle under and punishes those who stand for their freedom and the freedom of their fellow men. In the USSR, for example, a family that had a record of proper deference would be placed higher on a waiting list to buy a sought-after commodity; anyone caught complaining or protesting went to the bottom of that list.

    I know you do not wish to return to the corrupt polices of the GWB/Rove era which enriched Wall Street at the expense of the American people, yet, in order to have the pleasure of gloating over an Obama defeat, would you support a return to a similar era (but on steroids) under Romney/Ryan/Rove?
  • amoobrasil bt sedlock 2012/08/20 15:05:13 (edited)
    amoobrasil
    I hope so. Of course, the more resources over which God commands us to exercise loving stewardship, the greater our responsibility to ensure that our "neighbor" is as well cared for as are we.

    Incredibly, I have repeatedly read and heard "conservatives" justify their Ayn Rand selfishness by rationalizing to themselves that people are poor because they are lazy and want to be take care of by people who have money. Since most of the poor have jobs (that pay so little, one person must often--if possible--hold down two or even three jobs), we do ourselves a great injustice by asserting that they are poor because they are lazy. Lying to ourselves to justify withholding life-giving sustence to our fellow man is a deed bred in the heart of Satan.

    Jesus' words never left me to infer that I should not want our collective resources to include feeding the hungry and clothing the naked if they were lazy. He never even suggests that the needy are in want because they are lazy.

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