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Are political parties cults?

kir 2012/08/06 12:54:22
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Alright, first off, if you're going to just say "I don't know about cults but here is what I know..." then please don't waste either of our time. I specifically linked to a checklist of cult behavior.

I went to a very interesting talk yesterday on cults. Now cults are generally considered to be "religious" in nature, but they do not have to be; there are many non religious groups with at least some of the cult behavior.

There are many different checklists that can be used to determine cult behavior; here is one. http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

How close would you say political parties are to being cults. Can you give examples for each item on the checklist?

I will have a few more polls on the topic most likely breaking this down by party.

Read More: http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

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Top Opinion

  • Tasine 2012/08/06 13:16:20
    12 - 15 checks
    Tasine
    +4
    Absolutely, cults are not exclusive to religion. Charlie Manson's group of crazies were a cult. Neither do I believe all cults are evil or illegal or even crazy. The features in the article can apply to all sorts of groups - membership clubs, sororities, fraternities, professions, schools, churches, unions, classes of people, sports. I believe that the word "cult" has been misused too often to have much validity. The word has become, or perhaps always was a pejorative label and some decent people have died as a result.

    Interesting post. Thanks!

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  • Jane 2012/08/11 13:47:58
    12 - 15 checks
    Jane
    +1
    Today???? YES
  • Psicolabis 2012/08/08 18:41:32
    4 - 7 checks
    Psicolabis
    Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
    The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
    The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
    The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
    This happens in the (troskist) party i am. The first two are obvious it will be in any party, but more in socialist partys. Why? Because if you think you have to make a revolution to change the world, you need people and you need to dedicate some time. The "us versus them" is just idiotic. In that case, football, soccer, baseball, basketball and any sport team is a cult, as well as nations (the US specially) and many others. And, as we think we have to make a revolution, yes we will have to kill people. As we sing (in spanish) "By the trostkism strength/ with the guts from the last stalinist/ we will hung the last bourgeois".
  • oros 2012/08/08 05:42:49
    12 - 15 checks
    oros
    +1
    Stupid people join cults even dumber people believe in politicians or political parties.
  • kir oros 2012/08/08 12:22:05
    kir
    +1
    Actually generally it's rather intelligent people who join cults. A lot of times they're just looking for something to fill their lives.
  • oros kir 2012/08/08 12:33:06 (edited)
    oros
    +1
    Like Politics? Intelligence a much debated word we all have a different take on its meaning.
    Stupid meaning in this context those who are unable to think for themselves and question, but need some thing to belong to and some one to lead the way ie: cult political party, affiliation, religion, club, society, badge, identity or whatever, not for me I consider that stupid.
    "I belong therefor I am"?
  • kir oros 2012/08/08 12:34:39
    kir
    +1
    Could be. It really depends. They may want to make a difference, or feel that they belong to something.
  • oros kir 2012/08/08 14:22:08
    oros
    To true as long as their intentions are for the good of all and not selfish cant argue with that.
  • ERide54 kir 2012/08/08 13:53:01
    ERide54
    Secret Mason
  • FPSRules 2012/08/08 01:23:37
    0 - 3 checks
    FPSRules
    In a manner of speaking I suppose. They have very strong adherents to their particular philosophies or ideology. Their underlying foundations do have elements found in many cults; especially in regards to Obama, who is almost regarded as a messianic figure by some acolytes.
  • kir FPSRules 2012/08/08 12:22:31
    kir
    Did you read the list?
  • Mordred Emrys Morgan 2012/08/07 23:20:50
    0 - 3 checks
    Mordred Emrys Morgan
    +1
    They are not even intelligent enough to form cults.
  • oros Mordred... 2012/08/08 05:34:39
  • chaoskitty123 2012/08/07 21:39:17
    0 - 3 checks
    chaoskitty123
    Well if Sodahead would stop jerking around when you are about to click a choice, I would have said 8-11 checks lol. A cult is generally defined as religious in the simplest of terms. A cult is a "belief system" and that does not require any religious views at all. The "cult of personality" is one such usage of the term in this way.

    Now to your link...
    1) Both sides are blind uncaring for leadership ability when making their choices and often voting the party line not knowing a damn thing about their prospective choices. They possess support bases who refuse to doubt or disbelieve what their leaders say because they cannot be at fault... it's always someone else. They jump the gun attacking the other side before they know the first thing about the issue (as in being uneducated about the subject) or in the cases where a crime is concerned, they don't even wait to learn the identity of the person... an issue more true of the left as every time a crime takes place which seems to fit a political profile, within moments they are out crucifying white rightwing Christian male Conservative Republicans only to have the facts actually revel it's a non white leftwing non Christian Liberal Democrats (or even a woman). That pretty much defines "The group displays excessively zealous and un...

























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    Well if Sodahead would stop jerking around when you are about to click a choice, I would have said 8-11 checks lol. A cult is generally defined as religious in the simplest of terms. A cult is a "belief system" and that does not require any religious views at all. The "cult of personality" is one such usage of the term in this way.

    Now to your link...
    1) Both sides are blind uncaring for leadership ability when making their choices and often voting the party line not knowing a damn thing about their prospective choices. They possess support bases who refuse to doubt or disbelieve what their leaders say because they cannot be at fault... it's always someone else. They jump the gun attacking the other side before they know the first thing about the issue (as in being uneducated about the subject) or in the cases where a crime is concerned, they don't even wait to learn the identity of the person... an issue more true of the left as every time a crime takes place which seems to fit a political profile, within moments they are out crucifying white rightwing Christian male Conservative Republicans only to have the facts actually revel it's a non white leftwing non Christian Liberal Democrats (or even a woman). That pretty much defines "The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law" don't you think?

    2) "Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished"... if you dare agree with the other side on any issue, you will be punished. Ron Paul does share some views which are more left than right... but by a huge majority, his views are rightwing. Mitt Romney is a Liberal Republican whom everyone knows is lying to them about his "conservative" beliefs as we all know he's just saying what he must as rightwing Republicans will not vote for a Liberal Republican... and they are almost entirely rightwing. Barack Obama's voting record reveals he votes and overwhelming majority of the time with the political right and never once voted against Bush. Obama was, in fact, the go to guy when Bush didn't have enough Republican support and it was Obama who on many occasions got Bush legislation passed. No matter how many times Obama stabs the left in the back, they cannot see beyond his skin color to understand that like Romney is a Liberal Republican pretending to be rightwing, Obama is a Neocon Democrat pretending to be leftwing as that's why Obama never opposed, but always supported Neocon Republican Bush.

    3) "The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth)." Like the Nazi's, the left are trying to force us to exercise, to ban cigarettes, to ban cold drinks, they attack anyone trying to support them if their views deviate to voice opposition on any issue... that's why they are called sheep and socialists because they have no understanding of their political ideological beliefs in comparison with the past. They like to compare the political right to Nazi's when the Nazi's ideals on racial supremacy came largely from leftwing eugenics, they dictated what you could eat or drink and if you got out of line you would be attacked or even killed. Word for word, the lefts views on animal rights, environmental issues, social welfare programs, education and even healthcare... identical to the Nazi's almost word for word. The political right, however, is dominated by Plutocracy (rule by the wealthy) and the Paleocons have shifted the Republicans to a far right religious viewpoint. Plutocracy was the foundation of slavery in America and the far right, not mainstream but far right, religious authority was behind the Salem witch trials and numerous crimes / murders committed not by people enforcing federal law... but by raving lunatics holding a Bible in their hands twisting it to mean what they want it to say with such a rigid system of adherence that children were made to sit down, shut up and believe every damn word the preacher had to say... or get their ass blistered when they got home.

    4) "The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity)." As soon as the Democrats won in 2008, Progressives and Liberals began attacking Republicans claiming they were going to save the world and for Republicans to get on board or get out of the way. All they can do is attack Republicans from what they consider to be a high moral ground such as attacking all Republicans as being racists while saying had the Democrats elected a white Democrat they would have been treated the same way... the truth is that it's Obama's supporters who can't see anything but his skin color and they are the ones whose belief system has always been more like the Nazi's in Germany. The Republicans, however, think that because they claim to be Christians that this puts them on a higher moral ground... then we hear about the pedophile priests and we begin seeing the whole thing unravel as Republicans who claim to be Christians often make the claim... but they don't back it up by living the life they try to force on the rest of us. While the left is again more fitting of the example by viewing Obama like some messianic savior who is actually more like Judas with as often as he has betrayed them. but we saw with the Republican nomination process one candidate after another shot down in flames all claiming to be moral and Christian only to be revealed as anything but!

    5) "The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society." I'll keep this one short... they never vote for candidates based on leadership ability. Instead, both sides blame the other for everything that goes wrong, they refuse to work across party line (each blaming the other for that as well) and they vote simply to keep the other side from winning... not hard to understand why very few of our leaders have any leadership ability at all when we don't care if they have any leadership ability or tell us the truth, just tell us the sweet lies we want to hear and we'll vote for you knowing full well that everything you told us were lies!

    6) "The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations)." As stated above, Obama actually helped Bush pass his legislation many times during Bush's second term and had he not betrayed the Democrats doing so, they could have stopped Bush from passing what they consider to be his worst legislation. Before leaving office, Bush negotiated the pullout dates for US troops in Iraq and he negotiated the 2008 Emergency Economic Stabilization Act which bailed out the auto industry and the banks. Yet, Obama was blamed for the auto bailout early on by Republicans when Obama had nothing to do with it and when GM started turning things around, Obama supporters who had previously attacked Republicans because Obama had nothing to do with the bailout... suddenly began claiming Obama bailed out the auto industry. Funny thing, Bush bailed out both the banks and the auto industry yet he gets blamed for bailing out the banks but now Obama gets credit for bailing out the auto industry? Obama also gets credit for the pullout of Iraq which he didn't have a thing to do with and got the Nobel Peace Prize yet spent more money and oversaw more killing in his term than Bush saw in both of his terms combined. Republicans hold Bush unaccountable and Democrats hold Obama unaccountable or justify Obama's abuse of power by pointing out that Bush did it too... Obama was elected in large part because he promised not to do these things and yet, he did and is not blamed by his supporters in the same way they blamed Bush!

    7) "The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities)." Under Bush, we saw a huge increase in spending on government welfare, abuses he attacked Clinton for but then did the same things himself and he kicked open the doors to illegal immigration like no other President in my 45 years of life. He then gave excuses and his supporters accepted and they began supporting Bush's actions which completely contradicted almost everything they claimed to believe in. Obama comes to power and does the same things Democrats slammed Bush for but they also find excuses to justify supporting Obama in things like his secret deal with Big Pharma, his tossing out the public option in his healthcare plan which his supporters said they would not accept because his plan could not work without this... in essence, they are now in bed with Big Pharma as well as having turned their backs on many environmental issues because they would have made Obama look bad being they couldn't be blamed on Republicans.



    8) "The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group." Both sides have this and the core within each group lives as they feel their political beliefs say they should thus hiding their true activities and beliefs. This one is more apparent with Republicans whose moral stand on the issues often makes them look like hypocrites and liars. There are many gay Republicans because being a Republicans is a political and economic ideology... not a sexual orientation matter. Not all Republicans are Christians but to be a Republican requires you to claim you are or keep your mouth shut if you aren't. if you are gay and the best Republican candidate the party has ever seen... you will be denied leadership based solely on your sexual orientation even if you are the only one in the two party system qualified for the job to fix all our problems. On the other side, you have atheists attacking all Christians to the point they make all leftwingers look like atheists (when there are millions of leftwing Christians), blacks are led to believe that Democrats have their best interests at heart when even now they suffer far worse under Democrats than they ever have under Republicans and they are so out of their minds that they praise and accept Muslims for the very things they condemn Christians for... talk about being hypocrites, leftwing Democrats supporting Muslims who hate everything the left supports and across most of the world kill and persecute leftwingers is fn insane!

    I'll leave it at these 8 but I must say this in closing.

    Today we live in an us vs them society. Most who support either side are so uneducated that they don't know who or what they believe. While Liberals scream they are not Socialists, while Progressives scream they are not Communists, while Conservatives scream they are not religious zealots and Neocons claiming they are everything they are not with no one being able to see them for what they are on either side... it's very clear that most Americans don't have a clue who is who and what is what. Ask a Republican to tell us what a Neocon is and they can't even tell you if they are one or not. Accuse a Progressive of being a Communist and while they may deny it, they don't deny their beliefs are identical to Communists... just they aren't Communists.

    Very few Americans have devoted even 30 minutes to try learning about the political ideologies which are the root of our divisions. If they would do this and even formed groups to express and learn about their beliefs... you would find the Neocons all but removed from American politics, you would find the Republicans and rightwing Democrats shifting away from the extreme religious right, you would see Liberals abandoning Socialist ideals and even Progressives abandoning the Progressive movement to become Independent American Progressives more like what Teddy Roosevelt and JD Rockefeller were than Stalin and Castro.

    Being a Conservative or Liberal, Democrat or Republican is not some damn club you join like the book of the month club or community group. Belonging to a political party or ideological group requires you use your head to investigate your beliefs to see if you even belong to the group by comparing your beliefs to their beliefs... and by only supporting political candidates you know share your beliefs rather than supporting candidates you know are lying to you but you support them because they're telling you what you want to hear.

    One person cannot make a difference you say? Get together in local community groups with other people who share your beliefs. Learn about your ideological beliefs... learn about your political party beliefs... maybe you're not a Liberal Democrat, but you are a Liberal Republican? Maybe you aren't a Conservative Republican, but you are a Conservative Democrat> Maybe you're a Moderate, a Centrist, a Libertarian or even an Independent. Get together, choose political candidates from within your group. Get them elected and expand your group into new chapters where you continue exploring your beliefs... and if you don't accept the beliefs of the group, find others more like yourself and break away as maybe you are a Moderate Republican rather than a Radical Republican or even a more Mainstream Republican. Maybe you are a RINO or a DINO, be what you are but learn who you are and what your beliefs are. Be proud of yourself for what you believe. But abandon beliefs like Communism as it is a dead political ideology. Western Socialism is what the Neocons embrace (if it must be given a name) as they share beliefs with Liberals and even called themselves Liberals interchangeably with Neocons until they became Republicans where they would be cast out if they continued to call themselves Liberals.

    Liberals are about 30% to 40% rightwing in their views yet people calling themselves Liberals in the US today are almost 100% leftwing which is where Socialists and Communists reside. they embrace people like Che Guevera yet claim they aren't Communists... but Che Guevera was a Communist!

    For crying out loud... are you so lazy that you willingly vote for con men with no leadership ability because it's easier to support an us vs them mentality... even if it destroys this country in the process???

    WAKE THE HELL UP PEOPLE!!!
    (more)
  • Paul 2012/08/07 02:49:48
    4 - 7 checks
    Paul
    I could see 6-7 for political parties without stretching the imagination too much. I used the same checklist for a couple other groups, my sisters Babtist Church scored high, couple other community groups that could be somewhat political in nature scored higher than the political parties, but the test requires much opiniion and speculation that I would normally frown on, so...... what the hell, country is full of cults depending on how things get implied...lol...
  • Swampdog 2012/08/06 20:16:22
    0 - 3 checks
    Swampdog
    To me cultish behavior is similar to the destructive behavior of the Jim Jones cult of 1978, or the Democrat cult where if you don't agree with their philosophy, morality or ethics, you are a whole dictionary of negative adjectives. BTW the Democrats would perform auto coitus until they died if they could, rather than preform some constructive behavior like getting a job.
  • kir Swampdog 2012/08/06 22:52:43
    kir
    +1
    Which items did you end up checking?
  • Swampdog kir 2012/08/07 00:50:09
    Swampdog
    None, just read what was there. Sorry I'm bad at following instructions, just ask Trudie BN. I always goof up on her tests.
  • Nilam 2012/08/06 19:07:30
    12 - 15 checks
    Nilam
    +1
    i dont see a difference,
  • 3003573 2012/08/06 18:05:22
  • kir 3003573 2012/08/06 22:53:17
    kir
    Cults are not limited to religion, that is my point; did you even bother to read the check list in the link?
  • Philo-CommieHater! 2012/08/06 17:45:37
    8 - 11 checks
    Philo-CommieHater!
    Depends (a little) on one's definition of a political party, as well as which party. I came up with 11 for the DNC, 7 for the RNC, and 12 for the Libertarians (assuming wRONg Paul - and therefore his acolytes - to be de facto Libertarian).
  • kir Philo-C... 2012/08/06 23:03:48
    kir
    +1
    I find it interesting that you saw it the most in the libertarians who want limited government and limited control by others. Can you give some examples?
  • Philo-C... kir 2012/08/07 00:52:39
    Philo-CommieHater!
    The libertarians I, personally, know (IRL) are such brain-washed Paulbots that it seems obvious they've been programmed to disregard actual, viable candidates. That SCREAMS "Cult" to me. Don't get me wrong, if the Republican Establishment had seen fit to allow Ron the candidacy, I would have voted for him in the general, DESPITE his followers, not because of them. But, on reflection, I probably paint with too broad a brush. The "ideals" of the Libertarian movement do resonate, but I'm afraid there are just too many stupid people to institute it whole-hog - though not enough to require Socialism - the "nanny state" we're presently well into, either.
  • kir Philo-C... 2012/08/07 11:43:49
    kir
    Ah, in other words because they won't vote for Romney or Obama they must be brainwashed? If the Republican Establishment had seen fit to allow? Since when did we have to listen to what the establishment says? We vote for the best candidate; it's that simple.
  • Philo-C... kir 2012/08/07 12:05:52
    Philo-CommieHater!
    Well, yes, kind of - the refusal to even consider compromise is a sign of fanaticism, which is a sign of a cult.
  • kir Philo-C... 2012/08/07 12:14:32
    kir
    It really depends on what you consider compromise. If you have decided that a candidate who supports big government is dangerous and that you do not want to support any such candidate, then the only option is to support someone else.

    A third candidate has not won not because third candidates can not win, but because of the mentality by the voters who believe that such things are true.

    You consider: "I won't vote for a destructive candidate" to be fanatical" and I consider "I must vote for Romney or Obama because they're the ones that are likely to win even though they will both destroy this country" to be fanatical.

    http://politicoid.blogspot.co...
  • Philo-C... kir 2012/08/07 13:05:12
    Philo-CommieHater!
    Okey-Dokey. You "win..."
  • kir Philo-C... 2012/08/07 13:07:13 (edited)
    kir
    It's not about winning or losing; it's about being informed. Let me ask you something, what is it about a certain candidate that you oppose and what is it about a certain candidate that you support? What is your ideal candidate?
  • darlenedoskas1969 2012/08/06 16:15:07
    12 - 15 checks
    darlenedoskas1969
    the Republican party sure seems to be to me... In my opinion, though, the Dems check WAY fewer boxes
  • Melizmatic 2012/08/06 16:03:32
    4 - 7 checks
    Melizmatic
    +1
    I quit counting at #7.

    Damn, I'm glad to be an independent moderate; looking at the similarities was fairly disturbing.
  • kir Melizmatic 2012/08/06 22:54:04
    kir
    +1
    I'm glad I could disturb you; hopefully it will shock some others into reality before it's too late.
  • Melizmatic kir 2012/08/06 23:16:47
    Melizmatic
    +1
    Not likely, I'm afraid.

    Most people are willfully obtuse and in denial.
  • Pamela Perkins 2012/08/06 13:57:02
    4 - 7 checks
    Pamela Perkins
    Yes,
    this country cannot be allowed to turn into a "Banana Republic" Political partys have become a cult and if you say anything against the cult leader, you are butchered. It's the democracy. I have found myself doing it also. We just can't seem to come together on anything.
  • Tasine Pamela ... 2012/08/06 14:18:53
    Tasine
    +4
    IF all of us would vote on principle instead of Party, this nation would be better off. If politicos were not deceptive and were honest, this nation would be better off. If our citizens had not become so coarse and vulgar, this nation would be better off.

    If this nation were better off as a result of the above, all citizens would be better off. We MUST revive decency and integrity. Having lost those traits is the reason we are in the state we are in. Until MOST see this, we will continue to sink.
  • kir Tasine 2012/08/06 14:44:22
    kir
    That's why you should become a politicoid instead of a politico :p
  • Mike 2012/08/06 13:52:27
    4 - 7 checks
    Mike
    Tea Party is for sure! lol
  • kir Mike 2012/08/06 13:53:03
    kir
    +1
    Out of curiousity, which items did you check? Also you think it's only the tea party?
  • ģhøṡτ øώl 2012/08/06 13:40:23
    0 - 3 checks
    ģhøṡτ øώl
    People can create a cult following to just about anything these days.
  • kir ģhøṡτ øώl 2012/08/06 13:50:10
    kir
    +2
    Did you even read the list?
  • ģhøṡτ øώl kir 2012/08/06 14:05:33 (edited)
    ģhøṡτ øώl
    +3
    Yeah, and I don't view politics like that. Maybe some folks do. But basically ALL people are trying to find acceptance in some kind of group in one way or another. Some people follow those kinds of tenets toward religion or politics, I suppose. Others get tattoos and ride motorcycles. Some become atheists and spend all their time trying to disprove God to themselves and everyone else, patting each other on the back for being fellow "non-believers". Some people buy all the "hype" clothes and products and adhere to douchey lifestyles of hedonism and decadence. Most people are, at their core, merely longing for some type of acceptance. Many people pander for acceptance through rebelling against societal norms. Many get theirs by falling in a niche and going with the flow.

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