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Are liberals just people who never matured?

Gracie - Proud Conservative 2012/09/18 00:57:44
They cry, they scream, grown men get flustered and celebrity worship is a mainstay. They love Hollywood, they want someone else to pay for what they want, and they think the solution to our economic problems is to take money from people who have earned it and give it to those who haven't. They just seem to be so juvenile in their thoughts. It's nothing new, history is filled with the duped. Is there a cure?

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  • No nonsense NanC...don't BS... 2012/09/18 03:24:23
    No nonsense NanC...don't BS me!
    +21
    I was a Liberal for all of my adult life, and always voted for the Democrat candidate
    for POTUS....... until 2008, and I won't go into the reasons for my leaving the Democrat
    party except to say I was working for Hillary's campaign......

    WHat I want to address is the statement "Are Liberals just people who never matured?"
    I think I was an responsible adult who went to college and had a responsible job,
    children I raised, etc. I think I was mature if you define that as being responsible.
    I went with the Democrat party because I thought they cared about people......I listened
    to Cronkite and Rather, worked forty hours a week and really didn't get that involved
    in politics, and I voted Democrat.......except occasionally. in local elections I voted for someone
    else because it was more personal and I knew the candidates on a personal level.
    And I saw myself as one who cares about others and thought we should care for
    those less fortunate.

    After I left the Democratic Party, I couldn't listen to the LSM anymore.......I couldn't
    believe I had voted for Gore and Kerry.........knowing now what I know. Gore is a pompous @$$ who made a bundle promoting climate change, and Kerry turns
    out to be another pompous @$$ as well................ I don't recognize the Democratic
    party I had ...



    I was a Liberal for all of my adult life, and always voted for the Democrat candidate
    for POTUS....... until 2008, and I won't go into the reasons for my leaving the Democrat
    party except to say I was working for Hillary's campaign......

    WHat I want to address is the statement "Are Liberals just people who never matured?"
    I think I was an responsible adult who went to college and had a responsible job,
    children I raised, etc. I think I was mature if you define that as being responsible.
    I went with the Democrat party because I thought they cared about people......I listened
    to Cronkite and Rather, worked forty hours a week and really didn't get that involved
    in politics, and I voted Democrat.......except occasionally. in local elections I voted for someone
    else because it was more personal and I knew the candidates on a personal level.
    And I saw myself as one who cares about others and thought we should care for
    those less fortunate.

    After I left the Democratic Party, I couldn't listen to the LSM anymore.......I couldn't
    believe I had voted for Gore and Kerry.........knowing now what I know. Gore is a pompous @$$ who made a bundle promoting climate change, and Kerry turns
    out to be another pompous @$$ as well................ I don't recognize the Democratic
    party I had been loyal to all those years, and I will never return. 0h, I might vote
    for a D. at the local level, but never again will I vote for a Democrat POTUS. Am
    I more mature........ I don't think so. I just gained a different perspective. I still care
    about those less fortunate, I help my neighbors, contribute to the food pantries, etc.,
    but I am no longer a Democrat, nor do I listen to the likes of MSNBC..........
    (more)

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  • Not-A-RINO Anonymo... 2012/09/18 19:21:25
    Not-A-RINO
    Libertarians don't support Marx's progressive income tax. The best help government can be, in most instances, is to get out of the way.
    .
  • Anonymo... Not-A-RINO 2012/09/18 19:40:36
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    Libertarians have wide views, as wide a liberals and conservatives. I myself support a tax on disposable income, with the first £12,000/$18000 tax free for everyone. Yes the government should get out of most things, I think vouchers are best for health and education.
  • Not-A-RINO Anonymo... 2012/09/18 19:48:34
    Not-A-RINO
    Personally, I support a consumption tax where everyone who buys anything pays tax. This way no one gets away with not supporting the government such as felons, dope dealers, prostitutes and those "working under the table". Under this set up, the more you earn, the more you purchase and the more tax you pay - but the rate of tax is all the same.
  • Anonymo... Not-A-RINO 2012/09/18 22:48:04
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    +1
    I support replacing income taxes with consumption taxes in theory, but the problem is, sales taxes are horrendously regressive - someone earning £30,000 pa will spend perhaps 70% income on goods, whilst someone earning £300,000 would spend closer to 40% on goods... Unless you make basic food, utilities, clothes, etc. tax free, it would hit the poor very hard. And my other problem with it is, it means living is more expensive which means you'd have to pay people on benefits higher amounts than with an income tax, again unless you make basics tax free... I support a land value tax more than either, and high corporation taxes actually help the economy, especially if income taxes are low.
  • Not-A-RINO Anonymo... 2012/09/18 23:39:16
    Not-A-RINO
    If you look at the proposed Fair Tax in the USA, that addresses your concerns. There is also a book with that title which goes into great detail of how it works and why it is a lot better than the tax system we have now. Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
  • Anonymo... Not-A-RINO 2012/09/19 15:52:27
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    But they still hit the poor harder. I'm familiar with the FairTax, I don't like it though...
  • Not-A-RINO Anonymo... 2012/09/20 00:18:14
    Not-A-RINO
    Fair enough. I think it's a much better tax system we have now and it has provisions to help the poor built into it. No one could possibly say the system now makes any sense at all due to its enormous size in statute, is progressive which is found in the Communist Manifesto, its regressive as it punishes hard work and achievement, and nearly half of wage earners have NO skin in the game.

    You may disagree, but that's all right. That's the way the mop flops. :)
  • Anonymo... Not-A-RINO 2012/09/20 15:56:14
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    Nothing wrong with a progressive tax. More progressive taxes make a happier nation. I do prefer land and luxury taxes though...
  • Not-A-RINO Anonymo... 2012/09/20 19:49:38
    Not-A-RINO
    +1
    As I stated, the progressive income tax is found in the Communist Manifesto - a document hardly espousing freedom. More importantly, the message should be the government spends and wastes too much money. Somehow that is lost in the equation.

    Another thing to consider, if having a progressive income tax makes sense to you, then why stop there? Let's say you just landed a sweet job that pays you $100k/yr. You studied, worked hard and were a model employee at your place of employment. Everything is cool and the smile on your face is broad.

    You decide to take your best friend out to dinner and then to a tavern for a couple of beers - nothing fancy, just some face time. After a nice dinner you noticed the tab which was nearly double what this restaurant normally charges for a meal you've had many times. You call the waitress over and point out what is an obvious mistake. Then you are informed, "Because you just got promoted at XYZ, Inc and make more than the average person, I have to charge you nearly double just to be fair."

    Disgusted, you and your friend go to the bar for a couple mugs of suds, pretzels and conversation. A couple hours later you go to pay your tab and you see the bill is rediculous. You point this out to the bartender and he says, "Look, buddy, we try to be fair to ...











    As I stated, the progressive income tax is found in the Communist Manifesto - a document hardly espousing freedom. More importantly, the message should be the government spends and wastes too much money. Somehow that is lost in the equation.

    Another thing to consider, if having a progressive income tax makes sense to you, then why stop there? Let's say you just landed a sweet job that pays you $100k/yr. You studied, worked hard and were a model employee at your place of employment. Everything is cool and the smile on your face is broad.

    You decide to take your best friend out to dinner and then to a tavern for a couple of beers - nothing fancy, just some face time. After a nice dinner you noticed the tab which was nearly double what this restaurant normally charges for a meal you've had many times. You call the waitress over and point out what is an obvious mistake. Then you are informed, "Because you just got promoted at XYZ, Inc and make more than the average person, I have to charge you nearly double just to be fair."

    Disgusted, you and your friend go to the bar for a couple mugs of suds, pretzels and conversation. A couple hours later you go to pay your tab and you see the bill is rediculous. You point this out to the bartender and he says, "Look, buddy, we try to be fair to all our customers. When rich guys like you come in we charge accordingly."

    You would be hopping mad and think you've just been surrounded by idiots. Think about these points:

    1. Is it "fair" you have to pay nearly twice what everyone else is paying?
    2. Who was that bartender to call you "rich"? Yes, you have a nice salary, but you earned it and should enjoy the fruits of your hard work and dedication, right?
    3. Using your plight as an example, who in their right mind would work as hard as you to get a promotion only to get your wallet gouged by everyone else?

    Progressive income taxes aren't fair, cause some descention and are regressive as the people who normally produce goods and services cut back in their efforts as any gain they may realize is taken away.

    We could go one step further and as you walked to the restaurant from your car, a cop stops you and demands you give a bum $20. "C'mon, hand it over! You can afford it. Besides, it isn't the bum's fault there's no good-paying jobs for people who drop out of the 9th grade and have a criminal record. Get on with it or you will be spending the night in jail." (The government redistributes your money who do nothing productive or are irrresponcible whether you like it or not.) You call this theft while the government calls it compassion. Nice, huh?

    My point is while some ideas may sound appealing, in practice they are a nightmare.
    (more)
  • Anonymo... Not-A-RINO 2012/09/20 20:30:43
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    It depends whether you earnt it or not - I think unearnt income should be taxed more highly than earnt income. It all depends on whether the government uses the taxes effectively - if the government uses taxes well, people are happy to pay taxes. If it doesn't, people will evade paying taxes and hate paying them. I don't think they're unfair - I think it would be fair for everyone over £15,000/$25,000 to pay the same rate, but under that amount I think it's counter-productive to make them pay the same rate.
  • Not-A-RINO Anonymo... 2012/09/20 21:49:26
    Not-A-RINO
    +1
    Unearned income comes from investments, right? Why would you pay more for taking risk with your money you already paid tax on? Another thing, the amount of dividends you received are already taxed in the USA at 35% before you get anything.

    As for the working poor, I agree with you. There should be a sliding scale in relation to amount earned and family size. Putting food on the table and a roof over your family's head is MUCH more important than paying tax. Of course, we can all feel confident the government would never waste the money - *cough* *cough* *gag*
  • Anonymo... Not-A-RINO 2012/09/20 22:04:21
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    The Nordic countries have governments that work well, are efficient and work for the people. They trust their government and that it'll use the money well. America and Britain have deep seated mistrust of their governments and politicians, and not trusting authority makes for an unhealthy society. Unearnt income is from investment, inheritance, land investment, natural resources, etc. If we're to incentivise labour and disincentivise banks taking risks with money, we need to disincentivise risky investment, and the best way to do that is to make it more profitable to grow the business in safer, more socially friendly ways, like investing in infrastructure and the community.
  • Not-A-RINO Anonymo... 2012/09/20 22:21:10
    Not-A-RINO
    One thing to consider in both countries - You don't always have to be poor, nor are you guaranteed to remain wealthy. I am also speaking of individuals, not corporate investors such as banks (I don't trust the big bankers). My bias is I want you to keep more of the money you earned. Pretty simple indeed. If businesses invest money, then they should reap the benefit. Many businesses invest in themselves by getting new equipment, hiring talented workers and improving the quality of their goods. For this, they should reap the rewards of their investment and if it turns out to be a bad move, then they can declare bankruptcy.

    As far as distrust, you're right and the government earned it. Right now, Congress has an approval rate of 10% and sinking. For centuries, there have been many statesmen who have been warning us about trusting government such as Ronald Reagan and Demosthenes: "There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots. What is it? Distrust." (Reagan is quoted below)

  • Anonymo... Not-A-RINO 2012/09/20 22:27:06
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    But if you're poor, you're likely to remain poor, if your family is rich and you get a big inheritance, you're likely to stay rich. Investing to get extra income is fine, but I have a problem with rich people investing lots of money and making millions without lifting a finger. No one should make money just because they're rich. And Reagan? Really? Probably one of the most wasteful and least transparent governments ever, he's not one to talk... And we need to be able to trust the government to have a healthy society, like we need to trust in the banks to have a healthy economy. The Nordic Model creates trust in both, which is a main reason as to why it works.
  • Not-A-RINO Anonymo... 2012/09/21 05:11:42
    Not-A-RINO
    +1
    While I would tend to take a opposing point of view, I have enjoyed this exchange. It has been polite, intelligent and thought-provoking. Thank you.
  • WinterLynn 2012/09/18 16:31:06
  • robert.goldsmith.14 2012/09/18 16:30:13 (edited)
  • Turn the Tide 2012/09/18 16:24:26
    Turn the Tide
    +1
    Anyone who follows another blindly hasn't fully matured.

    USA Liberals are basically those individuals who wish to steal money from US Taxpayers through legal channels of government.
  • Philo® ~PWCM~JLA ✩ 2012/09/18 16:14:34
  • mac9 2012/09/18 15:49:06
    mac9
    That is certainly one way of putting it.
  • David 2012/09/18 15:38:18
    David
    +1
    Most liberals do fit under this category. Young people, understandably, fill a large portion of it. They have not experienced the full rigors of life and in many cases their brains still have not fully developed. Liberalism has it's basis in emotion, altruism, symbolism and good intention and it discards practicality and common sense. I think Liberalism has more to do with ignoring reality than immaturity. That is why their is such a strong connection between the Leftist movement and Hollywood. The Hollywood crowd is laden with fantasy and make believe and with few who really walk it like they talk it. I am a conservative and never want to grow up. I wish I was still young and would give up all of my worldly possession to go back in time to when I was 18. Not all liberals are immature though. Some have achieved much and really believe in what they preach but in many ways again they ignore human nature and reality and think they can change people's actions and thinking with legislation.
  • Ron Hanforth 2012/09/18 15:17:13
    Ron Hanforth
    +1
    It's a educational deficiency and they are predisposed to being socially and economically ignorant, unable to comprehend and process what most of us consider to be common sense.
  • Wayne 2012/09/18 14:56:31
    Wayne
    +1
    Correct! They are adult children in mentality, actions, and speech! Infantile, adolescent behavior in all portions of their lives.
  • Zombie Saddam 2012/09/18 14:46:59
    Zombie Saddam
    +2
    People that think politics and intelligence have a correlation bother me. If I can see particle physicists be Republicans and Democrats, that pretty much puts that notion to rest. If I can see mentally challenged McDonald's/Walmart workers be Republicans and Democrats, that pretty much puts that notion to rest.

    So why can't we just forget about it?
  • Gracie ... Zombie ... 2012/09/18 15:53:43
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +1
    You're mistakenly correlating intelligence with maturity or common sense. Many brilliant people are socially inept and aren't people that you'd trust to make decisions for you in your life. It's not about IQ.
  • David 2012/09/18 14:43:58 (edited)
    David
    +5
    Santorum put it best "we will never get the smart people" to support our party! This question reflects what he was talking about!
  • ChiTownGirl 2012/09/18 14:39:16
    ChiTownGirl
    +2
    Michael Savage had it right with his phenomenal book, "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder."

    123

    123
  • Hawk 2012/09/18 14:38:29
    Hawk
    +1
    Yes. It's coming in November!
  • harry 2012/09/18 14:35:45
    harry
    +3
    Modern Conservatives are jealous of Liberals. They wish they could be 18 years old again. Instead, these old timer conservatives who want to take us back to the 18th century, are so boring and energyless...........are way too far gone. 100 years from now, no one will care anyway. By that time mother nature will have done its thing.
    In the biblical sense, I don't believe a word Romney says. He's a loser. Vote for the winner. Vote Obama. Romney is self-destructing his own campaign. The debates will pretty much prove him incapable of the job, president. Romney is making it too easy for Obama to win. I don't even know why Obama is spending all that money on campaign TV ads etc.... If were Obama, I would save my money and pull all ads... just let Romney lose on his own.
  • Brendakp harry 2012/09/18 14:45:12
    Brendakp
    +2
    Jealous of liberals?! You haven't got a clue.

    laughing
  • Gracie ... Brendakp 2012/09/18 15:58:45
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +2
    At 61, he made my point entirely! LOL!
  • Faith ~... harry 2012/09/18 15:21:28
    Faith ~American Patriot~
    +1
    obama a winner? Lmao, I think you meant to say whiner.
  • Gracie ... harry 2012/09/18 15:58:14
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    You hit on a key difference between liberals and conservatives but you have it backwards. Jealousy and envy are integral parts of a liberal...thus the class warfare. Progressives are trying to recycle old regressive ideas that have failed throughout history, taking us back before the founding of this country.

    Thanks for proving that you're never too old a liberal to ignore reality.
  • Philo® ... harry 2012/09/18 16:16:05
  • Space Invader 2012/09/18 14:22:44
  • Kara ~~... Space I... 2012/09/18 18:01:47
    Kara ~~~ American Patriot
    LOL
    Obama Baby
  • Chris - The Rowdy One! #187 2012/09/18 14:22:14
  • Hawk Chris -... 2012/09/18 15:01:08
  • BrotherJohn 2012/09/18 14:12:03
    BrotherJohn
    +3
    Raved for an accurate portrayal of most liberals.

    Semper Reformanda!
  • Rustie 2012/09/18 14:01:34
    Rustie
    +2
    A swift kick to the teeth by Madame Reality.
    That's the only cure.

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