Are firefighters a kind of socialism we need?

The firefighters in my community are volunteer. . . They sacrifice their lives to save others, for FREE. . .

If people in a community agree they need something and they all work together and pay for it, some might say it's "socialist". Really, it's just good sense. We do it all the time in our personal lives: going in together on a gift for someone, potluck dinners, splitting the check evenly at dinner in a restaurant even though everybody had something different, car pools. Sometimes it's because it would cost everybody more for a less desirable thing if each tried to do it separately. Sometimes, it's because it's easier to just pool together than to figure out the details.

You can look at the early days of fire fighting in New York city. People paid private fire departments to protect their homes only after the fire was put out. So, you had the fire companies sending out one person ahead to hide the fire hydrant until the rest could come with a truck in order to keep another company from finding it first. You had some dishonest companies starting fires so they would be paid for putting them out. And, you had people who weren't home and their houses burned, because there was no one to pay the company. THey would go to the neighbors to stop their houses from burning for a fee. It didn't work at all.

Your examples miss the point.

Potluck dinners, car pooling, pitching in on a gift, etc...all those things happen voluntarily.

I don't have any real say in contributing to the fire department, short of moving to the middle of nowhere. Even then, I don't have any guarantees that a nearby city won't grow up around me and ruin that patch of land.

Then there are petty tyrannies. A few years back, I went to a Marilyn Manson concert. Some of the good Christians of that city found out the sorts of things that he does in the show and tried to get the permit canceled. They wound up bringing in the fire marshal to shut it down while we were standing in line waiting to get in.

It was really a minor little nuisance, but it's a good example of the way power will eventually be abused.

People submit to certain curtailments of freedom in order to live in a society. My parents are retired and live in a gated community. The submit to all kinds of rules about what colors they can paint their house, how close to the road their trees can be, etc. THey do this because they know their neighbors won't be allowed to build some monstrosity and ruin the value of their home. THey also do it because they have the security of the community. It's a trade off.

Twice in the last year or two, I have heard about couples who lived just outside the boundaries of some city and would have had to pay extra for fire department coverage. Low and behold, their houses caught fire and they couldn't believe the fire department woudn't put out their fires. Lots of people think they shouldn't have to pay for things, but then they want the benefits.

I picked this one to express to the rightwing how ignorant they are to pursue the slash and burn tactics they seem to think is the way back to prosperity.
I wish I could say they understand the importance of public safety and how are Fire and Police help everyone but I don't think they care.

National defense, firefighters, and some police are needed, even by libertarian standards. If everyone carried a gun there would be little crime.

I've never heard this one before; Socialists? These brave men & women are some of the most patriotic people; I know. Fire Fighters around the Nation are willing to give their lives to save yours. You need mental help.

stupid question. the fire department is run by local governments and is voluntary. We don't need the Federal government running the fire departments.

The Federal Forest Fire Contract is with Aero-Unio; at Cal Fire / Dyncorp International handle all the California Forest fires. The the S2T & OV-1O are flown & maintained by Dyn Corp pilots amd mechanics. The Helocopters are flown by Cal Fire pilots. maintained by DynCorp.

What a lame attempt to justify Socialism . Should we choose better examples ?
Sewer workers ? Trash Collectors ? as being prime examples of Socialist union workers?

More like these are community agreed on contracted services for the common good.

Socialism is more on the order of every government Job believes that in comes with never ending pay complete with raises until death .

Welfare recipients; is a better example.

The firefighters aren't run by the Federal goverment. They are run by the local governments. How do you think a Federal fire department would be run? And would you like to have a Federal police force patrolling your city? Most Libertarians are against increasing Federal power at the expense of state and local authority. Liberals tend to bunch them together and treat them as the same thing....when they're not.

Gee I don't know how would a Federal Fire Dept be run? I guess we could ask the U.S Dept of Forestry they seem to do a pretty good job of it!

Oh yeah, their "prescribed burns" always go off without a hitch right?

I guess we all can't be as perfect as you!

How would such an adventurer be paid for?

Our little town gave free monthly water service to each volunteer fireman's home - held fundraisers for new equipment.

and thus the flip sides I also live in a area where fire departments are volunteer, we have firemen carnivals

**fireman's Brat here**

I have great respect for your father's profession. Is he still living?

nope.

No, that's just silly. Btw, in our community the firefighters are a volunteer organization and none of them are paid.

I bet they are paid through private sponsorship, which is the way it should be done.

In the small town where I grew up in the fire department was a volunteer one. They had fundraisers for new equipment, and the only pay the firemen got was free water service to their homes - IF they attended x fires and x meetings in a certain span of time.

your comment is non-sequitur. but to answer you: No, they are community minded citizens, some with probably come sense of adventure or risk attraction. Thank God there are folks like that. My daughter, I am proud to say, is one of them.

?

One entity does not make socialism. Yes, fire departments paid for with tax dollars are a socialist type program, but a government isn't "socialist" because it runs a fire department. Once the government, however, continuously goes after private businesses and by hook or crook turns them from private into public businesses, socialism is closing in, and citizens are are correct to call it socialism. That's how I see it. Also, fire departments aren't run by the federal government, the centralized government. Even states aren't totally protected by tax dollars via the government. Many communities have volunteer fire departments that receive no tax dollars per se. Some communities have fire departments paid for by the community they serve. Once all communities are forced to have a specific fire department, paid for with tax dollars, it is socialism.

Many of the duties of Federal and state Firefighting is contracted out to companies to fly and mantain their aerial fire fighting equipment; and it's done for a profit.

Interesting information. I didn't realize that!

I work for one of those companies ; )

That's fantastic ! You guys do fantastic work. I live in the White Mountains in AZ and there are fires here from time to time - you might have done some work over here!

It is a form of political collectivism that crosses the line IMO but it is also local socialism and if I do not wish to participate I am still free to move to a city or county that has a more individual rights respecting volunteer or private system. It is when these government policies are centralized on a state or federal level that it becomes increasingly difficult if not impossible for the private citizen to get away from the legalized political suppression of individual rights.

...All in the name of the "collective mobster good" of course

As a fire fighter and an EMT... who risks his own life to save people like you....I want to call to your attention to the absolute idiocy of this poll. What did we do to you? Did we stop you from committing suicide? Those are usually the types that hate us. Rethink this poll, try again.

I know you're trying to point out a logical inconsistency among people who call themselves "small government" believers, yet still embrace public ownership of protection services, and right you are in doing so. They really are hypocrites, and should be pointed out as such.

But there are some of us who really do consistently believe in minimizing or even eliminating the state, including the cozy relationship between the state and corporations. Voluntaryists, we're called.