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Another PPACA Constituionality question

ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2012/03/26 19:28:15
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Basically what this article is about is how can the health care mandate be unconstitutional but Social Security and Medicare is constitutional. If health care mandate is unconstitutional, then so should Social Security and Medicare be unconstitutional. "You
can’t allow the mandated taxation required for Medicare and Social
Security and disallow an individual-mandate universal health care
system" Is Obamacare Constitutional?
By Joe Klein | @JoeKleinTIME | March 23, 2012 |


Two interesting columns this morning on the Supreme Court’s
upcoming consideration of the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare.
Jonathan Cohn, one of the very best writers on this subject, cuts to the chase:
If the individual mandate — the requirement that everyone purchase
health insurance — is unconstitutional, then Medicare and Social
Security must be unconstitutional too, and vice versa. It seems to me
that this argument is dispositive — unless the distinction is made
between Obamacare’s mandate of a private product and Medicare’s mandate
of payment into a public health-insurance system (and, as Cohn argues,
about 25% of Medicare recipients participate in private plans). You
can’t allow the mandated taxation required for Medicare and Social
Security and disallow an individual-mandate universal health care
system.
Republican commentary on this subject, especially among the
candidates for President, has been fundamentally dishonest, as Charles
Krauthammer demonstrates once again.


Krauthammer, you may recall, essentially came out for a single-payer
system a few years ago — health care vouchers provided by the
government, according to income. (I’m in favor of that too.) Today, he’s
gone completely over the top in the opposite direction:


If Obamacare is upheld, it fundamentally changes the
nature of the American social contract. It means the effective end of a
government of enumerated powers — i.e., finite, delineated powers beyond
which the government may not go, beyond which lies the free realm of
the people and their voluntary institutions. The new post-Obamacare
dispensation is a central government of unlimited power from which
citizen and civil society struggle to carve out and maintain spheres of
autonomy.


Wow. So, essentially, socialism — the term that wingers often use,
inaccurately, to describe a single-payer system — is constitutional, but
a government mandate to participate in a private, free-enterprise form
of insurance is not? Republican attempts to distance themselves from
the Republican idea of an individual mandate do tend toward the hilarious.


Krauthammer is right on a separate point: that the Obama plan does
little to control health care costs. Of course, Republicans in Congress
want even less control over costs, as they demonstrated this week with their vote to abolish
a crucial Medicare panel that would attempt to control costs by
suggesting best practices as established by the electronic compilation
of health care data. This is the dreaded “death panel” of Sarah Palin’s
fevered imagination. It seems the only sort of cost control that
Republicans favor is free-market competition — another lovely fantasy
that has never been proved, and is probably unprovable, in the severely
limited, quasi-public health care market.


One hopes the Supreme Court will review all this with clear eyes. I, for one, would be surprised if Obamacare is overturned.


Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2012/03/23/is-obamacare-constitutio...

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  • James 2012/03/27 02:01:30
    It isn't like Medicare and Social Security because....
    James
    Medicare and Social Security are technically considered taxes. When FDR and his kind got this passed, the Amish wanted nothing to do with it. In order for them to go along with it (even though they would never benefit from it), they had to sell it as a tax instead of a benefit program.
  • scbluesman13 2012/03/26 21:51:53
    It isn't like Medicare and Social Security because....
    scbluesman13
    Medicare and SS are government safety net services that are provided for by taxes levied on citizens.

    Mandating insurance is making a law that citizens must purchase private or public health insurance if they do not already have it. The mandate is defended by the Obama white house under the commerce clause of the Constitution.

    One of the main pillar arguments the SCOTUS will have to decide on is whether or not a health insurance mandate is reasonable within the interpretation of the commerce clause. That's essentially where most of this argument rests - for and against.

    Commerce Clause - US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3:
    "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"

    Excerpt from venable.com:

    General Principles of the Commerce Clause Challenge
    Several issues affect the PPACA constitutionality debate, such as States’ rights under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution and whether the Mandate is a penalty or a tax under the power of the U.S. Congress (the “Congress”) to raise revenue. But the core battle centers on Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, the powers and limitations of Congress under “the Commerce Clause.” Under the Commerce Clause, Congress regulates commerce among the States. Th...




    Medicare and SS are government safety net services that are provided for by taxes levied on citizens.

    Mandating insurance is making a law that citizens must purchase private or public health insurance if they do not already have it. The mandate is defended by the Obama white house under the commerce clause of the Constitution.

    One of the main pillar arguments the SCOTUS will have to decide on is whether or not a health insurance mandate is reasonable within the interpretation of the commerce clause. That's essentially where most of this argument rests - for and against.

    Commerce Clause - US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3:
    "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"

    Excerpt from venable.com:

    General Principles of the Commerce Clause Challenge
    Several issues affect the PPACA constitutionality debate, such as States’ rights under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution and whether the Mandate is a penalty or a tax under the power of the U.S. Congress (the “Congress”) to raise revenue. But the core battle centers on Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, the powers and limitations of Congress under “the Commerce Clause.” Under the Commerce Clause, Congress regulates commerce among the States. The Supreme Court has established a three- pronged test to decide whether a law complies with the Commerce Clause. Congress may regulate:
     the channels of interstate commerce;
     the instrumentalities of interstate commerce, or persons or things in interstate commerce; and
     activities that substantially affect interstate commerce.

    Source: http://www.venable.com/files/...
    (more)
  • ὤTṻnde΄ӂ scblues... 2012/03/26 21:54:23
    ὤTṻnde΄ӂ
    +1
    And in my opinion, the mandate does come under the commerce clause.
  • Cthulhu 2012/03/26 21:15:00 (edited)
    It is just like Medicare and Social Security
    Cthulhu
    ** I think I clicked the wrong option. However ... **

    Those dirty hippies are protesting again.
    dirty hippies protesting
  • ὤTṻnde΄ӂ Cthulhu 2012/03/26 21:28:28
    ὤTṻnde΄ӂ
    +2
    Very aged hippies.
  • Cthulhu ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2012/03/26 22:34:47
    Cthulhu
    Real hippies would be pretty old.
  • Primitive Christian 2012/03/26 20:55:44
    It isn't like Medicare and Social Security because....
    Primitive Christian
    To begin with understand that I am not arguing that the PPACA is unconstitutional. But, Medicare and SS are not like the PPACA in that the mandate in MC and SS is a tax for a government service or function. The PPACA actually forces the individual to purchase a product from a (for profit) 3rd party.
  • ὤTṻnde΄ӂ Primiti... 2012/03/26 21:26:22
    ὤTṻnde΄ӂ
    I understand your differentiation between them, but that's exactly what will be discussed tomorrow. The "penalty" for not purchasing is handled by the IRS and will only be paid with income taxes. The question is going to be if health care insurance can be considered commerce and it can because regardless everyone is going to need health care at some point and it's interstate. If a person gets hurt or seriously ill while traveling in another state, they are affecting that state--interstate commerce. (I know what I'm trying to say but I'm not doing it very well.) I will say one thing, I have a deep-seated gut feeling that the Court will uphold it's constitutionality.
  • Primiti... ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2012/03/26 21:45:40
    Primitive Christian
    I'm not an attorney, but it will be interesting reading the opinions from the court regardless of how they rule.
  • VoteOut 2012/03/26 20:14:39
    It is just like Medicare and Social Security
    VoteOut
    yes they sure are attacks against Liberty and Freedom
  • ὤTṻnde΄ӂ VoteOut 2012/03/26 20:25:57
    ὤTṻnde΄ӂ
    +1
    I disagree. I receive Social Security now, I retired 10 years before the normal age of retirement, and I know that I paid into it for 32 years. My pension is pretty good, but the addition of SS....well, let's say I'm happy. I don't know about Medicare but I know I paid into that, too. I'm sick and tired of paying the hospital, labs, and doctors for people who don't have insurance. Right now, the republican states have the very worst health care and the blue states end up paying for their health care. Regardless, the best thing that will happen eventually is that we'll have Medicare For All....health care costs will spiral downward.
  • VoteOut ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2012/03/26 21:00:16
    VoteOut
    Well maybe a little harsh to say attack on liberty and freedom but it does go against it, does not mean it not favoable but any intentfull good program gets distroyed by washington. I have a distastse for western medicine and dont full subscribe to it. We should be working towards creating wellness in society and and dis-ease managment and creating a society where health care requirements is less and less not more and more, Before even worring about the insurance of it the FDA-Quazi-Big Pharma needs to be totally broken down and rebuilt before anything elese towards wellness can be accomplished

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