Amnesty?
Leasheryn/Lady Willpower
2012/06/18 00:43:20
President Obama announced Friday he will end the deportation of up to 800,000 illegal immigrants under the age of 30, allowing them to stay in the U.S. and get work permits. Do you support the President’s action?
Top Opinion
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beavith1 2012/06/18 00:49:36NO





















Source - P.S. Ruckman, Jr. 1997. “Executive Clemency in the United States: Origins, Development, and Analysis (1900-1993),”27 Presidential Studies Quarterly, 251-271
If you still think I'm wrong you can direct your concerns or questions to the the Office of the Pardon Attorney (U.S. Department of Justice).
Dunning-Kruger effect. Argumentum ad nauseam.
LOL- Obama himself said what he did last week was illegal !
'Amnesty (from the Greek ἀμνηστία amnestia, oblivion) is defined as: "A pardon extended by the government to a group or class of persons, usually for a political offense; the act of a sovereign power officially forgiving certain classes of persons who are subject to trial but have not yet been convicted" It includes more than pardon, in as much as it obliterates all legal remembrance of the offense. The word has the same root as amnesia. Amnesty is more and more used to express 'freedom' and the time when prisoners can go free.'
Keeping in mind we have an important point here: "It includes MORE THAN A PARDON" (emphasis mine). This alone creates the legal question of whether or not article 2 even applies (especially since the article specifically stated "pardon criminals" which implies their conviction has already occurred in court. With amnesty, no such action occurs. This alone possibly negates any 'fiat' you believe the article conveys. The confederate soldiers amnesty was not exactly by fiat either:
"On May 29, 1865, President Andrew Johnson provided for amnesty and the return of property to those who would take...
'Amnesty (from the Greek ἀμνηστία amnestia, oblivion) is defined as: "A pardon extended by the government to a group or class of persons, usually for a political offense; the act of a sovereign power officially forgiving certain classes of persons who are subject to trial but have not yet been convicted" It includes more than pardon, in as much as it obliterates all legal remembrance of the offense. The word has the same root as amnesia. Amnesty is more and more used to express 'freedom' and the time when prisoners can go free.'
Keeping in mind we have an important point here: "It includes MORE THAN A PARDON" (emphasis mine). This alone creates the legal question of whether or not article 2 even applies (especially since the article specifically stated "pardon criminals" which implies their conviction has already occurred in court. With amnesty, no such action occurs. This alone possibly negates any 'fiat' you believe the article conveys. The confederate soldiers amnesty was not exactly by fiat either:
"On May 29, 1865, President Andrew Johnson provided for amnesty and the return of property to those who would take an oath of allegiance. However, former Confederate government officials, officers with the rank of colonel and above from the Confederate army or lieutenant and above from the Confederate navy, and people owning more than $20,000 worth of property had to apply for individual pardons. Though it was difficult for ex-Confederates to ask for a pardon for something they did not believe had been wrong, thousands did ask for and receive amnesty from President Johnson." (source: http://www.wtv-zone.com/civil...
As for Nixon, there are a few that contended that Ford over reached HIS powers when he granted him amnesty as well (especially in light of the fact that Nixon still refused to admit any wrong doing, and he had not been formally convicted, what he was really given was immunity), in fact many agree it cost Ford his re-election bid. So both of you examples aren't exactly making your argument here.
The point is, Article 2 Section 2 is clearly being abused if this is going to be cited as the source of authority to grant fiat authority to give back door amnesty to illegal immigrants (granting reprieves and pardons implies 'already convicted'). Anyone with any sense (legal or otherwise) can see that this article section was not written to convey this and would not necessarily stand up to a legal challenge. It will be interesting to see if it happens though given the polarity of the issue.
P.S. Ruckman, Jr. 1997. “Executive Clemency in the United States: Origins, Development, and Analysis (1900-1993),”27 Presidential Studies Quarterly, 251-271
Given the precedent of past presidents (Washington, Lincoln, A. Johnson, FDR, Truman, Ford, Carter, and Reagan) granting amnesty, I doubt that a court would even take up the case. If you believe that a law has been broken, feel free to direct your concerns or questions to the Office of the Pardon Attorney (U.S. Department of Justice).
*601 The act of Congress in question securing to witnesses immunity from prosecution is virtually an act of general amnesty, and belongs to a class of legislation which is not uncommon either in England, (2 Taylor on Evidence, § 1455, where a large number of similar acts are collated,) or in this country. Although the Constitution vests in the President "power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment," this power has never been held to take from congress the pass acts of general amnesty, and is ordinarily exercised only in cases individuals after conviction, although, as was said by this court in Ex parte Garland, 4 Wall. 333, 380, "it extends to every offense known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment."
So you can see the Supreme Court both placed no limits, but also indicated what the power was for and not. And clearly it is stated that it is ...
*601 The act of Congress in question securing to witnesses immunity from prosecution is virtually an act of general amnesty, and belongs to a class of legislation which is not uncommon either in England, (2 Taylor on Evidence, § 1455, where a large number of similar acts are collated,) or in this country. Although the Constitution vests in the President "power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment," this power has never been held to take from congress the pass acts of general amnesty, and is ordinarily exercised only in cases individuals after conviction, although, as was said by this court in Ex parte Garland, 4 Wall. 333, 380, "it extends to every offense known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment."
So you can see the Supreme Court both placed no limits, but also indicated what the power was for and not. And clearly it is stated that it is was NOT to be used to take from congress the power to pass acts of general amnesty.
Clearly no law was broken, but it did open a window for a legal challenge due to past interpretation. Previous ones however did not feel this was the proper use of the articles powers. Again, the question is, would such improper use be justification for Judicial level intervention? I think many will disagree on the answer even if the Judicial branch took a pass.
again nice try sending people to the department run by Eric Holder to address this issue knowing full well Eric is a criminal himself and that this is not the issue at hand so any petition would be ignored - but it was a nice try ! Hats off to ya kid
It's okay. You have the right to your own beliefs, no matter how delusional they might be. I know how you right-wingers hate facts.
Argumentum ad nauseam.
-2% GDP growth + 4% inflation + 13% government growth = a net lose of 15% per year !
-Obama single handedly cut all funds for the border fence (we have no border LOL)
-Military budget is up by 200 billion a year but we are firing soldiers and quitting wars ?
-Freddy Mac is number 8 on the fortune 500 list and they lost 16 billion dollars last year !
-White house projections even with the class-war taxes show us 45 trillion dollars in debt in less than 4 years
-assassination , warrant-less detention , drones spying on US citizens , paying new enemies of this country instead of fighting them , back door deals with Russia and China etc etc
Your “dream” is a nightmare kid !