I have never seen a bigger tantrum in my life. Walker was not guilty of anything other than bringing prosperity back to Wisconsin, but the liberals couldnt stand that. He interfered with their sweetheart packages. They were getting paid more to do less with cadalac healthcare plans and sweet pensions- all on the public dime. It was unsustainable, so Walker did something.
His actions werent even that drastic. He let people make their own decisions about union membership. Since then people have been leaving the unions in droves- willingly. Sounds me like the libs need to stop crying and actually work for their salary, which is still higher than their private sector counterparts.
Almost 44 million was spent on the Wisconsin recall election. Should unions be proud or hang their head in shame?
PEEPL
2012/06/06 12:23:37
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94 votes
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14 votes
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29 votes
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Here's the story..
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/21/us-wisconsin-idUSTR...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/21/us-wisconsin-idUSTR...
Top Opinion
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Izariel 2012/06/06 13:25:16
He's going down!
They lost, but I'm glad they at least tried.
Democracy isn't free my friend..
i'm not sure 'public unions' should even exist, simply because their existence AND outright support of one side is self serving.
the biggest squawk that the WI unions had was the state's permission for the employees to use insurance companies OTHER than the one run by the union. it was a direct assault on the union's cash flow.
and that change allowed for public employees to have comparable insurance and it saved the towns and cities a fortune. enough to allow flat (or declining) property taxes.
this recall effort should never have happened.
To me it just means America has sold itself out to BIG Money.. no matter where it comes from.
America truly has become one big disappointment.
and before you start blaming Dem Beav, BOTH PARTIES SUCK..
Do me a favor and don't respond if your only going to blame Dems... I just don't want to here any more partisan ideological crap anymore.
Thanks.
when OH passed their version of RTW, union $ flooded in from across the country to stop it. and it WAS stopped.
i understand why they were compelled to do so. if RTW passed in OH, it would have spread across the country, in their eyes, like a cancer.
it was a firebreak strategy. stop it (and any assault LIKE it) whereever it pops up. they were compelled to stop Walker's assault in WI, too, for the same reason, but the recall election process made it extremely difficult to do so. the time was very short.
if anything, this was a repudiation of public union overreach. the union had their iron rice bowl and they weren't giving it up. no matter how much it cost the private sector to pay for it.
you should note that this isn't about party. its about pushback against public union overreach.
if you think it offends one party more than the other, well, that's on you.
Now how do you really feel about conservatives overreaching, since you mention unions overreaching? Do you see how conservatives have been overreaching lately? After all corporations, which many conservatives support, put millions in this election as well.
How does this support Americans? My view is that it doesn't.. But you know that..
whoa... whoa.. whoa... you gig me for partisanship, then go partisan?
big labor is undeniably supported by the democrats. that's merely an observation. anybody that DOESN'T support big labor is automatically an enemy.
that's what this election was about.
that's what the OH RTW election was about too. lots and lots of big labor money poured into that state too.
and after all that big corporate support and money, 53% of the voters still approved of Walker's performance. just like high 50's supported stopping RTW in OH.
that's what makes politics so fun. sometimes an issue turns on facts, but most of the time, not.
this IS good for America and Americans. creeping union takeover of the public establishment can be stopped. up until now, i wasn't sure that was possible. there is an outside chance to control our cost of local and state gov't.
I just asked about the overreach of conservatives and corporations...
When will it be time to put them in check as well..
See where I'm going with this?
i'm not seeing any conservative over reach. they are reeling from democrat bulldozing.
for corporate overreach, we'd need someone to go after K street.
i'm going out on a limb here, but i can see the membership of the NLRB swinging hard right under a republican pres and Congress.
i suspect the money showed up after the OH RTW fiasco. how many of those OH things will it take for the Chamber of Commerce to realize that effective change is within reach?
Now let's press them to reform taxes as well... Everyone needs to feel a little pain...
Time for conservatives to take one for America...
So it's time to grow up and quit this petty bickering.
'trickle down' worked for Clinton. if there was any failure with that strategy under Reagan or Bush 1, it was not cutting spending along with taxes... in Clinton's case, he and his republican Congress held taxes flat when spending was curbed. same net effect.
when you lose your job, what's the first thing you do? cut expenses. that's something you can do immediately to stop the bleeding. THEN you go out and find a new job or a second job to augment income, because that may take time.
who's bickering? its time you really figured out who you are really shilling for.
the democrats can't cut. anything they cut would cost them constituencies and cost them votes. ever hear the parable of the scorpion and the frog? the democrats are the scorpion and the frog is america.
what denial? that Reagan (because he made a deal with Congress to get his cuts and a huge military buildup in addition to democrat domestic initiatives) Bush1 (because the real estate bubble busted on his watch) and Bush2 (because the Wall Street bubble burst) didn't do it as well as it should have been done?
and Clinton era trickle down doesn't count?
we live in the times that we live in.
we get the kind of leadership we deserve.
if we get another round of this sort of 'spend our way back to prosperity' nonsense, we'll truly be done for.
i'm all for the pain. but let's see some responsible cuts first. let's see some responsible cuts in spending while we're talking about the pain. because, so far, all we've talked about are big tax increases, now, and cuts sometime down the road.
i never thought that you'd prefer Popeye economics. remember Wimpy? 'i'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today'.
its not ideology if its management...
and you only see the world through TP vision...
All I can go through is what I've lived through personally... and when looking through the world of TP vision, all I see is pile of more Reagan like "trickle-on" economics.
And didn't Clinton also get TAX revenues... Oh say it ain't so Beav... and Clinton also left a surplus... Oh say it ain't so Beav...
Boy I love the way you cherry pick things through TP vision...
BTW, nice that you finally admit to more conservative faults today...
I was getting a headache with all the Obama bashing.
Now maybe you'll realize ALL is a fault... and it's not ONLY cuts that works... as I pointed out with Clinton tax INCREASES Beav.
See, when you open your eyes, you'll see that I'm right about everything being on the table NOW...
Because this let's cut, cut, cut, and promise you'll see money trickling down on you is the conservative way of mistrust...
Oh... but I bet you didn't think I saw that move as well... Ur boys on the right are just as slick Beav... but with the Bush/Obama tax cuts doing nothing for any of us over the past 10 year, I wonder why you've never mention another part of the conservative help the millionaire economic plan, and wait and see if they get up off their butt and create some jobs way of bending us over!
Nope, i...
and you only see the world through TP vision...
All I can go through is what I've lived through personally... and when looking through the world of TP vision, all I see is pile of more Reagan like "trickle-on" economics.
And didn't Clinton also get TAX revenues... Oh say it ain't so Beav... and Clinton also left a surplus... Oh say it ain't so Beav...
Boy I love the way you cherry pick things through TP vision...
BTW, nice that you finally admit to more conservative faults today...
I was getting a headache with all the Obama bashing.
Now maybe you'll realize ALL is a fault... and it's not ONLY cuts that works... as I pointed out with Clinton tax INCREASES Beav.
See, when you open your eyes, you'll see that I'm right about everything being on the table NOW...
Because this let's cut, cut, cut, and promise you'll see money trickling down on you is the conservative way of mistrust...
Oh... but I bet you didn't think I saw that move as well... Ur boys on the right are just as slick Beav... but with the Bush/Obama tax cuts doing nothing for any of us over the past 10 year, I wonder why you've never mention another part of the conservative help the millionaire economic plan, and wait and see if they get up off their butt and create some jobs way of bending us over!
Nope, it's all or nothing... blame BOTH partisan sides...
Hate me if you want... But that's the only way anything going to get done.
now THERE'S an image.
is it TP vision to expect some sort of fiscal restraint? some sort of fiscal responsibility? is it hard to understand? is it a bad ideal?
i can't possibly know what you've lived through, but i can infer that you have figured out that it was entirely related to trickle down.
Clinton got a tax 'up-bump' right after he was sworn in. that luxury tax that wiped out the consumer boat, RV and airplane industries until those taxers were thrown out by their ears in 1994 and the new, more fiscally responsible republicans took over.
and no. Clinton left no surplus. the national debt climbed every year of his terms. bless him and republicans for making it close, but not quite a cigar.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov...
see Obama's comment today? jeezuz. is he from Neptune?
tax increases if and only if SERIOUS cuts are made. that's the line in the sand. if the democrats had simply signed off on those original $60B in cuts, maybe we'd have extensive grounds for agreement.
right now, its the democrats 'raise taxes now for cuts some time in the future' line in the sand. Popeyeism...
i know the r word is frowned upon, but you'd have to be retarded to ag...
now THERE'S an image.
is it TP vision to expect some sort of fiscal restraint? some sort of fiscal responsibility? is it hard to understand? is it a bad ideal?
i can't possibly know what you've lived through, but i can infer that you have figured out that it was entirely related to trickle down.
Clinton got a tax 'up-bump' right after he was sworn in. that luxury tax that wiped out the consumer boat, RV and airplane industries until those taxers were thrown out by their ears in 1994 and the new, more fiscally responsible republicans took over.
and no. Clinton left no surplus. the national debt climbed every year of his terms. bless him and republicans for making it close, but not quite a cigar.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov...
see Obama's comment today? jeezuz. is he from Neptune?
tax increases if and only if SERIOUS cuts are made. that's the line in the sand. if the democrats had simply signed off on those original $60B in cuts, maybe we'd have extensive grounds for agreement.
right now, its the democrats 'raise taxes now for cuts some time in the future' line in the sand. Popeyeism...
i know the r word is frowned upon, but you'd have to be retarded to agree to a deal like that.
the Bush tax cuts were sold as a marginal rate decrease for everyone, but its purpose was to increase gov't revenue. and up until the bust, it did so. that would suggest that we are still on the left side of the Laffer Curve.
i know. raising taxes, on the rich especially, feels good, but if it brings in less revenue, then what are we doing? Obama has said, more than once, that he didn't care if it produced less revenue, it was all about 'fairness'.
if that's the case, he shouldn't be sitting there. no one in their right mind raises taxes to collect less revenue. you collect taxes to run the gov't not serve as some sort of Robin Hood theory, where making the rich poorer makes the poor richer.
that would be 'retarded'.
that whole rhetoric about those 'being tax cuts for the rich' really defines what you believe. please explain to me how a marginal rate cut of 10%, at every rate, is one for the rich? the only reason the rich get 'more back' is because they pay 'more in!'
its not the rich creating jobs. another democrat rhetorical misfire. capital creates jobs. you want jobs? encourage capital investment. stop punishing it.
i don't hate you for your opinions. i feel sorry for you being 'taken' by whatever leftist impulses that the democrats are touting. you're CLEARLY not a dumb man.
its OK to hate both sides. believe me. i reluctantly support the republicans because i can count on the democrats doing nearly every possible thing wrong.
its almost become a game to me to find ONE thing that they do right as a party. cripes. even a broken clock is right twice a day.
i'm not surprised when the republicans let me down. that's politics.
You also are quite intelligent as well. But why insult me with half truths? You know as well as I do that Clinton raised more then just a luxury tax.
And yes I know Clinton's surplus was only a forecast as well.
There's nothing wrong with cuts Beav... but there also nothing wrong with putting EVERYTHING on the table.
The only reason I brought up Clinton was to show a contrast.. but you're taking it as if I'm in lock step with Dems.
Clinton and republicans RAISED taxes before, and now it's time to raise it a little more on those who basically play the Capital gain 15% level.
Personally Capital gain should be raised to 30% over the 1st million...
And why is it not good to play fair when it comes to taxes...
After all for 10 years now we've had tax cuts and I don't know how long tax loopholes have been in place.
Beav I can't believe you don't see the obvious... well maybe that because of your TP vision.
What I see is EVERYTHING, whether you trust either side or not, must be on the table... anything less is just the start of screwing us all over again.. and again.. and again...
I don't care which side you blame... BOTH HAVE SCREWED US OVER!
and everything gets put on the table when both/either House can show fiscal responsibility. not suggest it. not talk about it. not consider it. DO it.
Clinton's democrats did the wrong thing. they paid for it. Obama's democrats want to do the same thing. they paid part of that price in 2010 and i expect that they'll pay the rest of the price in 2012.
i know you hate the conservatives, but when the democrats do what they can to immolate themselves (and us in the process), i think that its our duty to take away the gasoline or take away the matches.
if you raise cap gains to 30%, we will have a depression. if you wanted to create jobs, drop it to 10%. 7.5%. if you want a jobs explosion, go to 0%. do it for one year, just to see the effects.
you are wrapped up in what's 'fair' because some people make most of their money in capital gains. so what? invest money that spins off capital gains, and you can too. 'fair' is democrat misdirection. at least Obama came out and said that he didn't care if raising taxes reduced revenues. at least he's not ...
and everything gets put on the table when both/either House can show fiscal responsibility. not suggest it. not talk about it. not consider it. DO it.
Clinton's democrats did the wrong thing. they paid for it. Obama's democrats want to do the same thing. they paid part of that price in 2010 and i expect that they'll pay the rest of the price in 2012.
i know you hate the conservatives, but when the democrats do what they can to immolate themselves (and us in the process), i think that its our duty to take away the gasoline or take away the matches.
if you raise cap gains to 30%, we will have a depression. if you wanted to create jobs, drop it to 10%. 7.5%. if you want a jobs explosion, go to 0%. do it for one year, just to see the effects.
you are wrapped up in what's 'fair' because some people make most of their money in capital gains. so what? invest money that spins off capital gains, and you can too. 'fair' is democrat misdirection. at least Obama came out and said that he didn't care if raising taxes reduced revenues. at least he's not lying about that. he's insane, but he's not lying.
tax loopholes used to pervade teh tax system to a HUGE extent. under Eisenhower, when the top marginal rates were 91%, nobody paid high a rate. back then, the system wasn't just riddled with loopholes, it was riddled with tax shelters. the whole concept of tax shelters was made illegal under Reagan when he lowered tax rates.
evidently, under Romney, top marginal rates would be reduced again, and all tax loopholes would close. things like home mortgage deduction. charitable deduction.
that's been the tradeoff for lower rates.
i don't think that you're seeing everything. whether you are in lockstep with democrats or not, you definitely lean that way.
Go back and read all your hoop-la about raise in taxes... how it will create this... and create that... just tell us Beav how all that trickling on money has worked over the past decade.
I just wonder when you're going to wake up from your dream that everything just going to trickle down and we'll all be in Happy-Happy world.
Beav if it hasn't worked since Reagan, or heck let's just focus it down to the last 10 years, what makes you think I'd support signing on to more of it.
You're not make a good argument Beav. but I'm sure you'll just comeback with more tripe about Dems..
LMAO Beav... your only helping me go left my friend.
if the democrats woke up tomorrow and finally came to their senses that 'stimulus' doesn't work and that they've been barking up the wrong tree all this time, and started making judicious cuts in spending, they'd win in a landslide.
trickle down worked for Clinton. it can work for the current guy. with judicious cuts in spending it will work for the next guy.
no. i'm not driving you left. you're already there. you're anger has driven you there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?...
you only need to watch the first 30 seconds...
Hey Beav, why was Keynesian's alright with Reagan, GHB and GWB? They all accepted tax increases to stimulate the economy...
See Beav... being on the dark side has hidden you from the truth.
Face it Beav... it's all or nothing... it's your choice...
Keynesians had nothing to do with Reagan. i'm pretty sure nothing to do with GHB, either. when the real estate boom busted under GHB, he set up the RTC and and fire saled the assets. Bush 2 had a dalliance when he offered those $300 and $600 tax rebates, but when the bust happened, he phoned in what he was doing. its probably more accurate to ask what Reid and Pelosi wanted....
Reagan cut taxes, but put his spending on the credit card. by the end of GHB's only term, he was mentally out of it. 'read my lips. no new taxes'. then he raised them. that's gotta say something. Bush 2 cut marginal income tax rates by 10% for everyone.
i'm waiting for the first president to do ALL the right things. i might as well be waiting for Godot.
In 99% of my post I always included a LOL or a LMAO...
Beaw from what I seen on the news this morning, their now saying Reagan, GHB, GWB and even somewhat Nixon all gave into Keynesians...
You can parse it all you want, but when it came down to getting in a near recession, they all went Keynesian and increased government jobs.. which spurred off recession.
If we don't invest in our country, just how in the heck do you think we grow the tax base?
You can't just cut, cut, cut, and wish that sometime will come trickle down for millions to eek out a living...
The numbers don't support it Beav.. Sorry but that's just the facts.
all you have to do is look at your handle.
Nixon was strongly Keynesian. the others, not so much. Bush 2 started small then got huge when the bubble busted.
'giving in to Keynesians' is a failure. not a success.
LOL!?! INCREASE GOV'T JOBS?!?! gov't jobs area drag on the private sector. every dollar diverted to gov't purposes takes money away from the private sector's ability to create jobs.
you don't 'grow the tax base'. a functioning economy is dependent on the free flow of capital. this gov't has done its level best to punish capital and punish success. that's why your hare brained idea to increase capital gains isn't merely wrong. its suicidal.
we could cut a Trillion in gov't spending and haul back $1-2T that locked up overseas. we have another $2T sitting unused in our capital strike. mobilizing THAT is how you grow your tax base.
we've never cut cut cut. all we've ever done is spend spend spend.
numbers? the policies of the democrats are keeping us here.
Beav so delusional..aren't you.. BTW my handle allows me to slip into the world of the mentally challenged conservatives that also associate with pedophiles... LOL
And what you call a failure was a success... It was just enough of a push to starve off recession. But you won't be happy until your corporate brothers control all of us with this insane capitalism church of science experiment you've been brainwashed into.
Yes I believe in small doses of everything, and not just biting off one BIG swallow of any one way of doing things.
Something the presidents I mention got...
See Beav you FAILED EPIC, when you don't see or ignore the human COST of all these cuts you want everyone to swallow.
Now tell us while millions are out of work WAITING for your friends to invest, like they been waiting for the last 10 years now... how do they survive?
Oh I know... Burger King and McDonald's can hire them and they'll all be able to afford their current lifestyles... I'm sure they'll all be employed with good jobs again after their friends get tired of raping this nation of it wealth in another decade or so...
Beav, your trickle-on corporate capitalism way is mortally grave for some... yet you don't want to see that COST.
I wonder why? Why can't you see that humans all need to work to aff...
Beav so delusional..aren't you.. BTW my handle allows me to slip into the world of the mentally challenged conservatives that also associate with pedophiles... LOL
And what you call a failure was a success... It was just enough of a push to starve off recession. But you won't be happy until your corporate brothers control all of us with this insane capitalism church of science experiment you've been brainwashed into.
Yes I believe in small doses of everything, and not just biting off one BIG swallow of any one way of doing things.
Something the presidents I mention got...
See Beav you FAILED EPIC, when you don't see or ignore the human COST of all these cuts you want everyone to swallow.
Now tell us while millions are out of work WAITING for your friends to invest, like they been waiting for the last 10 years now... how do they survive?
Oh I know... Burger King and McDonald's can hire them and they'll all be able to afford their current lifestyles... I'm sure they'll all be employed with good jobs again after their friends get tired of raping this nation of it wealth in another decade or so...
Beav, your trickle-on corporate capitalism way is mortally grave for some... yet you don't want to see that COST.
I wonder why? Why can't you see that humans all need to work to afford to live... you can't do that if your job is CUT... and there are no other JOBS to take...
Your way just doesn't make sense... Many people have been waiting the last 10 years? Where are all those jobs? You guy got tax cuts... yet 10 years later you want more...
I can't understand why you don't see this... Oh wait, I know... your corporate brothers are whispering in your ear... "Pssst... it's the dems fault Beav!"
So Beav, I now have a deaf ear to corporate brainwashing.
that capitalist church of thought is called economics. anyone is permitted to study it. you're even permitted to understand it. however, you have to want to, first.
$7T is far too big a bite to chew. ohhh and look at that! its not worked, either!
oh man. the HUMAN cost? congratulations. you've outed yourself as a card carrying democrat. democrats worry about the touchy feely stuff, where cost is just a distraction. while you and your brethren want to sit around a campfire and sing cumbya, the rest of all of us have to work to pay for all those hangers on.
if we need investment, and 10 M are waiting for it, don't you think the clown prince President should get out in front of capital? i do. it seems that he thinks that collecting less tax revenue is more important because of 'fairness,' than it is to have those tax dollars invested in the private sector.
that...
that capitalist church of thought is called economics. anyone is permitted to study it. you're even permitted to understand it. however, you have to want to, first.
$7T is far too big a bite to chew. ohhh and look at that! its not worked, either!
oh man. the HUMAN cost? congratulations. you've outed yourself as a card carrying democrat. democrats worry about the touchy feely stuff, where cost is just a distraction. while you and your brethren want to sit around a campfire and sing cumbya, the rest of all of us have to work to pay for all those hangers on.
if we need investment, and 10 M are waiting for it, don't you think the clown prince President should get out in front of capital? i do. it seems that he thinks that collecting less tax revenue is more important because of 'fairness,' than it is to have those tax dollars invested in the private sector.
that is absolutely insane.
its not trickle up corporate capitalism you are seeing. that's Obama's trickle up poverty.
why don't you see that money has to come
from somewhere before a job can be created?
10 years? don't you mean 3 or 4?
it is the democrats fault. they seem to be compelled to turn us into this grey goo europe looking thing where gov't is the source of all good things. how long before the democrats, as a species, realize that the gov't can't ever do that? can't ever BE that?
what you have is a deaf ear to any sort of rational economic thought because you accept, line sinker and hook whatever Obama says...
All I have to do is throw it out there and watch you gobble it up.
---Yes I believe in small doses of everything, and not just biting off one BIG swallow of any one way of doing things.
What don't you get about ALL sides participating, instead of one piglet at the teat getting it's way?
How is it leftist to see that ALL the piglets need to be fed Beav?
Should I kill the smaller piglets so that your corporate piglets can survive?
And how can the clown prince do anything when the court jesters (Repubs) won't let him accomplish anything.
LMAO Beav.. you seem to always forget about those Jesters... I wonder why?
its an economy. one that creates jobs, when its working properly.
its not working properly.
the stuff he wants to 'accomplish' are bad. when the opposition thinks things are bad, they don't agree. when the clown prince insists on doing something bad, he'd better find something that changes the mind of the opposition. THIS clown prince doesn't do that. he demands that he get his way.
and here we are.
The opposition is just another piglet...
And we just had 10 years of tax cuts with the promise that investors would trickle on all of us with jobs.
Why are you insisting that I buy that lie.
Beav I've wised up... you should do the same. You got it about right on the Dems, but give all the hogs on the right as pass.
Wake up man... figure it out... They ALL SUCK!
but, by all means, keep on trucking...
the democrats are tossing a hand grenade amongst themselves. they are the immediate danger. we'll worry about the republicans when the time comes...
LMAO!
that's not a problem. worse, it'll end home ownership as a means for families to store wealth. with all the economic activity THAT entails.
he'd be far better off getting Obama's boot off capital's neck. as a venture capitalist, he should be screaming this point from the rooftops.
maybe he doesn't because he figures people won't understand. but that's the thing. he has to MAKE them understand.
otherwise, we get Obama's emotional message of 'fairness' which has zero real meaning and cheap political meaning.
we don't need cuts in marginal tax rates. we need cuts in spending AND, just as importantly, improvement in the treatment of capital.
we can do this. for the benefit of everyone. no more whipping boys will be needed. 'fairness' returns to its rightful place determining how big a slice of apple pie each sibling gets.
Venture capitalist had their chance... They blew it... they been paying 15% for how long now...
Where's all this investment money... sitting on the sidelines because they want more.
They should have been investing all the while instead of making excuses.
You're not going to convince me... their actions have spoken as loud as Obama's non-action...
So get over it man... BOTH HAVE FAILED..
And it's Americans that are paying the price.
You can rant and rave about Obama all you want... but blowing sunshine up the old wazoo with giving venture capitalist more breaks isn't winning anyone over.
sure they want more. any investor does. what they also don't want to have happen is to be robbed.
what is with you and venture capitalists? you're smarter than that. why do you listen to the democrat meme of the week? retirement systems are huge investors. individual stockholders. real estate investors. savings banks. not just the cigar smoking rich bastard.