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Alameda Police and Firefighters Stood by as Man Drowned: Should They Have Intervened?

News 2011/06/01 20:57:00
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Police and firefighters stood by and watched as Raymond Zack, 53, drowned off Crown Beach in Alameda, Calif., on Monday. After receiving a call from Zack's mother, police and firefighters arrived with plenty of time to save the man but stood by and did nothing rather than break department policies.

The water's depth and temperature may have played a role. As did budget cuts. The Alameda Fire Department's water rescue program was discontinued in 2009 because of budget cuts.

"(The) Alameda Fire Department does not currently have, and is not certified, in land-based water rescues. The city of Alameda primarily relies on the United States Coast Guard for these types of events," a police spokesperson said.

But the Coast Guard couldn't operate in water that shallow, according to their own statement. And the water was too deep for police and fire personnel.


In a hearing on Tuesday night, the policies preventing officials from getting involved were changed. But just not in time for Raymond Zack.

Read More: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/122944013.html

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Top Opinion

  • BlueMax372 2011/06/01 21:55:04
    Yes
    BlueMax372
    +11
    Too bad there's only a yes or no option. This is yet another typical SH "news" story designed to inflame emotions without providing sufficient narrative or information to make any sort of informed response. Water temperature was mentioned, but what was it? Would the officers be risking hypothermia and possible death by entering the water? What other means were at hand? How far away was the nearest Coast Guard facility, and what sort of rescue platforms were available? Give me a break, people.

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  • Jim Hart 2011/06/05 10:39:09
    Yes
    Jim Hart
    Cowards That's all they are! And they sould be REPLACED IMMEDIATELY
  • Herbtheman 2011/06/03 01:42:21
    Yes
    Herbtheman
    How can they live with themselfs ?
  • David 2011/06/02 19:13:41
    Yes
    David
    What?! This guy didn't do anything wrong did he? So nobody from the police department can swim? Or the fire dept.? That man paid their salaries while they did nothing for him in return.
  • BackWoo... David 2011/06/03 13:39:03
    BackWoodsMike
    +1
    There were THREE Agencies on the scene!

    1. Law Enforcement (who are neither trained or equipped for rescue operations).

    2. Fire Department (who have some training but not for water rescue, and also were not equipped).

    3. United States Coast Guard (with both the equipment and training, but even in their best attempt could not perform the rescue).

    So why are you criticizing the one Agency who has the least training or equipment to perform that rescue, unless of course you are either stupid to realize the situation, or you are just a Cop basher.
    - -
    The following is part of the statement by the Almeda Fire Chief, and the rest can be read at the link at the bottom.

    D'Orazi (Almeda Fire Chief) said that while some fire personnel on scene may have had training enough in the past to effect a rescue, "it's been a couple of years since that program has really gotten the attention it deserves." Plus, he reiterated, policy dictated that no water rescue attempt be made.

    A Coast Guard boat and helicopter were also on the scene. Katrina Schwartz interviewed Coast Guard spokesman Marcus Brown, who said that when the Guard was notified of the incident, it launched a small boat, which couldn't get close enough because of the shallow depths the swimmer was in. A helicopter was also launched, Bro...



    There were THREE Agencies on the scene!

    1. Law Enforcement (who are neither trained or equipped for rescue operations).

    2. Fire Department (who have some training but not for water rescue, and also were not equipped).

    3. United States Coast Guard (with both the equipment and training, but even in their best attempt could not perform the rescue).

    So why are you criticizing the one Agency who has the least training or equipment to perform that rescue, unless of course you are either stupid to realize the situation, or you are just a Cop basher.
    - -
    The following is part of the statement by the Almeda Fire Chief, and the rest can be read at the link at the bottom.

    D'Orazi (Almeda Fire Chief) said that while some fire personnel on scene may have had training enough in the past to effect a rescue, "it's been a couple of years since that program has really gotten the attention it deserves." Plus, he reiterated, policy dictated that no water rescue attempt be made.

    A Coast Guard boat and helicopter were also on the scene. Katrina Schwartz interviewed Coast Guard spokesman Marcus Brown, who said that when the Guard was notified of the incident, it launched a small boat, which couldn't get close enough because of the shallow depths the swimmer was in. A helicopter was also launched, Brown said, but by the time it hovered over the scene, another swimmer was bringing the man -- who was deceased at that point -- onto shore.

    http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix...

    As far as I can tell, the Police followed every procedure that they had at that time, including the dispatch of the Fire Department and the Coast Guard, but for some strange reason, it's always the Police who are criticized.
    (more)
  • David BackWoo... 2011/06/03 16:22:31
    David
    Whoa, did not mean to offend. I got as much info out of the article as I could. And it seems that it's in us to naturally want to help those in a life or death situation. I don't go around seriously deeming judgement without all the facts. I know I did not have all the facts, but coming back today and seeing that he was "apparently suicidal" changes things a bit. While I find it difficult to believe that so many rescue agencies could not save this man, I don't find it impossible. First and foremost because the person probably wanted to die, so he figured out how to do it right. And secondly, budget cuts were in play as well, that sucks when we can't keep RESCUE PROGRAMS in effect! I am not known as a "cop basher" nor do I rarely see the situation as accurate as possible. I think police, firemen, rescue orgs, and all the other branches of militart are severely under-paid. They don't make nearly enough to keep that kind of work appeasing.
  • BackWoo... David 2011/06/03 17:12:21
    BackWoodsMike
    +1
    The obviously biased news article reporters didn't do their job, and do investigative reporting before they reported it.

    This person was not just taking a casual swim, nor was he receptive to being rescued.

    He was a 300 lb man who wanted to drown (in 57 degree water) and was willing to take anyone down with him who attempted to stop him!

    Any attempt by untrained, non equipped personnel would have not only been fruitless, it would have been deadly for those who attempted it.

    Normal training for Law Enforcement Officers does not entail “rescue operations”, and as far as I know, only Fire Fighters with special training are equipped to make the attempt.

    Besides the fact that I am a Law Enforcement Officer, and 44 years ago was executing Search and Rescue Operations in Vietnam, my Son In Law is a Fire Fighter, and both he and my Daughter are on our County's Rescue Squad, My Daughter being a specialist in both surface and under water rescue.

    We all agree, any attempt of a non trained, non equipped person (Police or Fire Fighter) would have meant drowning of the rescuer(s)!
  • Dana BackWoo... 2011/06/09 05:10:42
    Dana
    +1
    Backed you buddy.... great post... and very well said.

    Unfortunately unless people have lived as a firefighter or a police officer, they just plain can not understand what is involved.
  • David BackWoo... 2011/06/09 22:38:45
    David
    +1
    yeah, once I found out the guy wanted to die, then it made sense
  • synful90 David 2011/06/03 18:36:43
    synful90
    Dude takes everything personally. Dont worry about offending him he's an offensive pompous person himself. Lol just sayin
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/04 18:22:26
    BackWoodsMike
    +1
    “Offensive pompous person”?

    Is that what you now call a person who has first hand knowledge of what the actual situation was?

    Maybe you should do just a little research before you give an O-P-I-N-I-O-N!

    LOL just sayin
    - - - -

    ALAMEDA (CBS SF) — Emergency responders were unable to rescue a 53-year-old man who lost consciouness in San Francisco Bay off the Alameda shore Monday in what police are calling an apparent suicide.

    Alameda police received a call at 11:31 a.m. regarding a person who had walked into the Bay from Robert Crown Memorial Beach in the 2100 block of Shoreline Drive.

    Members of the police and fire departments arrived within minutes, according to police, and immediately began requesting additional resources in rescuing the man who was approximately 150 yards from shore.

    The U.S. Coast Guard was notified at 11:34 a.m., Lt. j.g. Laura Williams said, and launched a 25-foot response boat from Yerba Buena Island and a helicopter from Air Station San Francisco.
    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal....

    - - -
    Expert: Officials right not to act in bay death

    "Emergency responders are being made to look like wimps for failing to intervene in an emergency," said B. Chris Brewster, former Lifeguard Chief for the City of San Diego and president of the United States Lifesaving Association. "Bu...


















    “Offensive pompous person”?

    Is that what you now call a person who has first hand knowledge of what the actual situation was?

    Maybe you should do just a little research before you give an O-P-I-N-I-O-N!

    LOL just sayin
    - - - -

    ALAMEDA (CBS SF) — Emergency responders were unable to rescue a 53-year-old man who lost consciouness in San Francisco Bay off the Alameda shore Monday in what police are calling an apparent suicide.

    Alameda police received a call at 11:31 a.m. regarding a person who had walked into the Bay from Robert Crown Memorial Beach in the 2100 block of Shoreline Drive.

    Members of the police and fire departments arrived within minutes, according to police, and immediately began requesting additional resources in rescuing the man who was approximately 150 yards from shore.

    The U.S. Coast Guard was notified at 11:34 a.m., Lt. j.g. Laura Williams said, and launched a 25-foot response boat from Yerba Buena Island and a helicopter from Air Station San Francisco.
    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal....

    - - -
    Expert: Officials right not to act in bay death

    "Emergency responders are being made to look like wimps for failing to intervene in an emergency," said B. Chris Brewster, former Lifeguard Chief for the City of San Diego and president of the United States Lifesaving Association. "But I think that's unfair because they lacked the training and equipment."

    Brewster said he has heard numerous stories of people who have died while attempting a water rescue.
    Would-be-rescuers have to be strong swimmers. They also need equipment such as a buoy that victims can grab instead of trying to climb onto the rescuer. And then there are techniques to get free in case victims start pulling rescuers under or cutting off their air supply....
    . .

    ..."For public safety personnel, one of the biggest causes of death and injury is going outside of your scope of training," Brewster said.

    The water that Zack, who weighed about 280 pounds, waded into off Crown Memorial State Beach was approximately 54 degrees. It was too shallow for a boat to enter, according to the Coast Guard. A Coast Guard helicopter was not immediately available.

    The beach also did not have lifeguards or rescue equipment, according to park officials.

    A lifeguard would have been able to rescue Zack, experts said.

    But in those water conditions, even a trained rescuer would need a cold water suit, said B.J. Fisher, health and safety director for the American Lifeguard Association.

    "Anything under 80 degrees can put you in a situation that is going to bring your core temperature down," he said.

    Fisher said approaching Zack in another type of rescue craft may also have been problematic, as it could have been toppled in the water.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4...
    (more)
  • synful90 BackWoo... 2011/06/05 03:24:07
    synful90
    Your copy and paste skills are astounding .
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/05 10:28:13
    BackWoodsMike
    +1
    Before retiring, in the 30+ years of my career, I had conducted over 1,800 job interviews. After the first dozen or so, I was fairly adept in spotting who and who not would make a good employee for our Company. Technical and academic skills counted for only part of my assessment. Personality, and behavior was what I became somewhat of an expert in assessing. More and more Companies are doing this now, and have found it a much better metric in determining whether a person is capable of “working with other”, which is in many cases more important than technical ability or academic experience.

    Allow me to explain to you why it is going to be extremely hard for you to either find a job, or if you were lucky enough to talk your way into one, hold it down.

    You, not I, have a “know it all attitude”, that makes you sound like a snotass kid. As an example, without doing the slightest bit of research, you classified those first responders as “IDIOTS”! As a person who is a “first responder” that knows what situations can be like, I checked both other news sources and used inter departmental networking to determine whether the original story was valid.

    Like all stories involving Police, the original story did not lay out all the facts. I simply called this to your attention, but instead o...



    Before retiring, in the 30+ years of my career, I had conducted over 1,800 job interviews. After the first dozen or so, I was fairly adept in spotting who and who not would make a good employee for our Company. Technical and academic skills counted for only part of my assessment. Personality, and behavior was what I became somewhat of an expert in assessing. More and more Companies are doing this now, and have found it a much better metric in determining whether a person is capable of “working with other”, which is in many cases more important than technical ability or academic experience.

    Allow me to explain to you why it is going to be extremely hard for you to either find a job, or if you were lucky enough to talk your way into one, hold it down.

    You, not I, have a “know it all attitude”, that makes you sound like a snotass kid. As an example, without doing the slightest bit of research, you classified those first responders as “IDIOTS”! As a person who is a “first responder” that knows what situations can be like, I checked both other news sources and used inter departmental networking to determine whether the original story was valid.

    Like all stories involving Police, the original story did not lay out all the facts. I simply called this to your attention, but instead of acknowledging your knee jerk reaction (as several adult minded people on here have), you continued to attack me, my profession and my personal integrity.

    This is the attitude young lady that is going to be your albatross, and knowing your type (and believe me young lady, I do know your type), you will be blaming everyone and everything for you eventual (and predictable) failure in life.

    Have a safe day..
    (more)
  • synful90 BackWoo... 2011/06/06 13:21:33
    synful90
    it really must hurt patting yourself on the back all the time...don't you get tired?? Allow me to demonstrate how you sir are wrong. I've been working for a leading healthcare company for three years now. I've surpassed everyone else my age in rank. Now I'm head of a hospital's supply chain department and run it by my lonesome all while attending college. My boss constantly praises me for my teamwork and customer service skills...oops you're wrong again... Yeah you certainly don't know me over a computer and you're looking foolish thinking you do. Looks like that little "metric" isn't so accurate now is it? But let's not forget you're the man in his 60's fighting a 21 year old for days now, yeah that looks real good. Haha I'm so over this, I generally avoid know it alls so see ya later.
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/06 14:52:07
    BackWoodsMike
    +1
    You are so full of it, it's not funny, so stop pretending!

    I'm beginning to believe you are not even 21. Most young men and women I meet around that age bracket are a heck of a sight mature than you.

    In fact, if I had to profile you, just judging by your obnoxious and annoying behavior here, I would have to say that you are a between 11 and 14 years of age, with little or no friends with the exception of a few geeks on here that you have managed to convince that you are someone you are not.

    Maybe you act the way you do is because your parents just don't pay that much attention to you, and you look elsewhere for that attention you crave.
  • synful90 BackWoo... 2011/06/06 16:04:10 (edited)
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/06 16:41:58
    BackWoodsMike
    Each time you answer me, you further verify my assessment.

    You are so full of it, it's not funny, so stop pretending!
  • synful90 BackWoo... 2011/06/06 20:03:05
    synful90
    Good comeback lame ass old man . Pull your hair down the red on your neck is showing
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/06 21:01:57
    BackWoodsMike
    You prove my case even stronger with each one of your messages.

    You are the only one who has to live with your lies.. Everyone here (including me) really doesn't care.
  • synful90 BackWoo... 2011/06/06 22:31:05
    synful90
    I don't care about anyone on this site half of them are nuts. I'll be sure to post my badge and job position for my page definitely not a liar. You sound more like the liar and you're a sad lil man who has to have the last word ...good luck with that .
  • Dana synful90 2011/06/09 05:09:30
    Dana
    No, he is not. I have not read any of this other posts... but I can tell you, as a retired firefighter, he is 100% dead on correct.

    That may not be what anyone wants to hear, but sadly it is 100% true.
  • synful90 Dana 2011/06/09 13:58:11
    synful90
    yeah but he goes about it the wrong way. you don't call people dumb for thinking something. if you walk them through POLITELY then there wouldn't be a problem. But he started it and i finished it, no one calls me dumb. This site is for OPINIONS and people need to kinda figure that out on here. Many are blind to that fact and preach mainly their beliefs telling the other person they're wrong. Bad idea
  • Dana synful90 2011/06/09 16:09:11
    Dana
    I agree with you in how to address, but I re read his posts and again, I agree with him 100%. My initial post on here regarding this subject was similar to his... explaining the process, procedures, responsibilities and I was jumped on too.

    When only a tiny miniscule portion of the story was written, with the full intention of inflaming the public, and having them go on the attack of the Fire dept, was just plain uncool.

    Firefighter and police officers are getting the hell beaten out of them from the conservatives last couple of years and it is getting worse instead of better. Officers cut, programs cut, safety cut in every direction and the ones who put their asses on the line each day are getting attacked. Please understand why we are sensitive and fed up.
  • mr.gonzo=lives 2011/06/02 19:10:05
    Yes
    mr.gonzo=lives
    I THINK WE NEED MORE INPUT ON THIS TOPIC TO GET THE WHOLE SENERIO.....OF COURSE THE FIRE AND RECUE/POLICE SHOULD HAVE TRIED TO SAVE HIM.....But ,I don't know why/how/he was in the water....how far out......how deep.....WE NEED TO KNOW MORE BEFORE THIS COMMENT IS COMPLETE.....
  • Faaris 2011/06/02 19:04:44
    Yes
    Faaris
    I'm not surprised :/ most animals only care for themselves.
  • synful90 2011/06/02 19:00:11
    Yes
    synful90
    +1
    how could you just sit there and watch?! terrible... bunch of idiots watch terrible bunch idiots thumbs down
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/03 13:38:12
    BackWoodsMike
    There were THREE Agencies on the scene!

    1. Law Enforcement (who are neither trained or equipped for rescue operations).

    2. Fire Department (who have some training but not for water rescue, and also were not equipped).

    3. United States Coast Guard (with both the equipment and training, but even in their best attempt could not perform the rescue).

    So why are you criticizing the one Agency who has the least training or equipment to perform that rescue, unless of course you are either stupid to realize the situation, or you are just a Cop basher.
    - -
    The following is part of the statement by the Almeda Fire Chief, and the rest can be read at the link at the bottom.

    D'Orazi (Almeda Fire Chief) said that while some fire personnel on scene may have had training enough in the past to effect a rescue, "it's been a couple of years since that program has really gotten the attention it deserves." Plus, he reiterated, policy dictated that no water rescue attempt be made.

    A Coast Guard boat and helicopter were also on the scene. Katrina Schwartz interviewed Coast Guard spokesman Marcus Brown, who said that when the Guard was notified of the incident, it launched a small boat, which couldn't get close enough because of the shallow depths the swimmer was in. A helicopter was also launched, Bro...



    There were THREE Agencies on the scene!

    1. Law Enforcement (who are neither trained or equipped for rescue operations).

    2. Fire Department (who have some training but not for water rescue, and also were not equipped).

    3. United States Coast Guard (with both the equipment and training, but even in their best attempt could not perform the rescue).

    So why are you criticizing the one Agency who has the least training or equipment to perform that rescue, unless of course you are either stupid to realize the situation, or you are just a Cop basher.
    - -
    The following is part of the statement by the Almeda Fire Chief, and the rest can be read at the link at the bottom.

    D'Orazi (Almeda Fire Chief) said that while some fire personnel on scene may have had training enough in the past to effect a rescue, "it's been a couple of years since that program has really gotten the attention it deserves." Plus, he reiterated, policy dictated that no water rescue attempt be made.

    A Coast Guard boat and helicopter were also on the scene. Katrina Schwartz interviewed Coast Guard spokesman Marcus Brown, who said that when the Guard was notified of the incident, it launched a small boat, which couldn't get close enough because of the shallow depths the swimmer was in. A helicopter was also launched, Brown said, but by the time it hovered over the scene, another swimmer was bringing the man -- who was deceased at that point -- onto shore.

    http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix...

    As far as I can tell, the Police followed every procedure that they had at that time, including the dispatch of the Fire Department and the Coast Guard, but for some strange reason, it's always the Police who are criticized.
    (more)
  • synful90 BackWoo... 2011/06/03 16:26:23 (edited)
    synful90
    uh i'm getting a degree in criminal justice so definitely not a cop basher i'd appreciate if you didn't judge just because of a comment on a site! i'm saying it's disturbing that ALL these people just stood and watched this guy drown all over "policy". perhaps you'd feel differently if you were drowning and all you could see is people watching. were you personally at the scene to know all the details??? or are you just one of the "sheep" who believes everything they read and are told. you may call me stupid but i'm not the one getting my "panties" in a knot over someone having an opinion on an O-P-I-N-I-O-N SITE...yeah you're right sooo intelligent. policy feel differently drowning people watching personally scene details people standing on shore
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/03 17:15:17
    BackWoodsMike
    The obviously biased news article didn't do their job, and do investigative reporting before they reported it.

    This person was not just taking a casual swim, nor was he receptive to being rescued.

    He was a 300 lb man who wanted to drown (in 57 degree water) and was willing to take anyone down with him who attempted to stop him!

    Any attempt by untrained, non equipped personnel would have not only been fruitless, it would have been deadly for those who attempted it.

    Normal training for Law Enforcement Officers does not entail “rescue operations”, and as far as I know, only Fire Fighters with special training are equipped to make the attempt.

    Besides the fact that I am a Law Enforcement Officer, and 44 years ago was executing Search and Rescue Operations in Vietnam, my Son In Law is a Fire Fighter, and both he and my Daughter are on our County's Rescue Squad, My Daughter being a specialist in both surface and under water rescue.

    We all agree, any attempt of a non trained, non equipped person (Police or Fire Fighter) would have meant drowning of the rescuer(s)!

    My Son In Law and Daughter's picture (my “Police” picture is on my profile page) in case you think I'm blowing smoke!
    law daughters picture police picture profile case blowing smoke
  • synful90 BackWoo... 2011/06/03 18:15:03 (edited)
    synful90
    yeah well you're pretty immature to be calling people stupid just for having an opinion. insults are not a way to debate, you chose the childish road. As a cop I would've thought you'd have more respect than that but guess not. I don't care about any proof you have. It's sad that someone drowned with no help given, but clearly you know everything so I'm not even gonna bother. Just another typical self righteous sodahead person.
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/03 18:24:44
    BackWoodsMike
    +1
    As a “Cop”, I'm sick and tired of people reading what was obviously a half truthful article, and blaming the Law Enforcement Officers for something that the media half ass'd reported!

    Now as a student of Criminal Justice, you are the one who should know better than to jump to conclusions without all the facts.

    Oh yeh.. It was so mature of you to call the Law Enforcement Officers and Fire Fighters “idiots” wasn't it young lady?
  • synful90 BackWoo... 2011/06/03 18:32:38 (edited)
    synful90
    I'm blaming firefighters duh they argued about policy. A civilian had to go out and get him for gods sake. So are they idiots uhh hmm yes they put policy before someones life. You cops wonder why everyone hates you? Because they talk down to people and know everything. Sorry I have an opinion on an opinion site lol you're a joke and need to grow up. You act like you know everything when you weren't even there! It's hilarious. You can say I called people idiots but I never once called you that personally. Instead you call me dumb when I have high honors in school I'm not dumb .
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/03 18:53:47
    BackWoodsMike
    The Civilian volunteered (since he was already wet suited up) to retrieve the “BODY”, which is a hell of a sight different than being pulled down by a 300 lb suicidal man.

    And if you were that smart, you would have read in my profile that I retired from DuPont, and joined the Department after I retired. I joined because I wanted to give back to my Community.

    I'm a Retired Senior Biomedical Engineer with an Associates in Electronics Technology, a Bachelors in Industrial Engineering and a Bachelors in Biomedical Engineering (the later with Honors).

    My portfolio and retirement income is six figures annually, and I own my home and the 12 acres of land it's on. Every penny that I'm paid by the County as a Deputy Sheriff, I donate to several Charities (one being the Policeman's fund which takes care of the families of those hated policeman who lost their lives in the line of duty).

    Insult me all you wish young lady.. It means absolutely nothing coming from you!
  • synful90 BackWoo... 2011/06/03 19:08:04
    synful90
    You're the one who insulted first and you're not man enough to admit it. You look idiotic fighting people on a site made for opinions. Point is not everyone will agree who cares? You take this dumb story so personally lighten up pal. All that education still doesn't come with class I see. You don't know me so stop acting like you do. I'm just surprised a know it all man like yourself found a woman. Debates would be terrible with you seeing as you know everything. Plus you're a bragger and putting down peoples intelligence. It's sad there's such rude people out there . See ya
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/03 20:53:15
    BackWoodsMike
    My response (that was placed in the form of a question) was directly in response to your charge that the first responders were “idiots”!
    LINK:
    http://www.sodahead.com/unite...

    You have a big problem young lady, and you better get it in check before you go out in the real world!
  • synful90 BackWoo... 2011/06/03 23:20:28
    synful90
    I am out in the real world and my only problem so far has been you and your know it all attitude.
  • BackWoo... synful90 2011/06/04 10:33:38
    BackWoodsMike
    +1
    At the ripe old age of 21 and still in College!! Young Lady, you haven't even begun your journey in the real world.

    Good luck with your.. “I'm not dumb because I get high honors in my Criminal Justice school” attitude.
  • C. C. Rider 2011/06/02 18:55:53
    Yes
    C. C. Rider
    +1
    They should fire the whole dept over this starting with the Captain. BOTH depts!! Some one should have yelled out he was an illegal immigrant with drugs...they would have tazed him, drug him in so they could beat him. But he would have lived.
  • synful90 C. C. R... 2011/06/03 19:09:00
    synful90
    +1
    Haha exactly! Good point
  • MG-42 2011/06/02 18:54:31
    Yes
    MG-42
    Another cowardly act by the Nations police forces.
  • BackWoo... MG-42 2011/06/03 13:37:15
    BackWoodsMike
    There were THREE Agencies on the scene!

    1. Law Enforcement (who are neither trained or equipped for rescue operations).

    2. Fire Department (who have some training but not for water rescue, and also were not equipped).

    3. United States Coast Guard (with both the equipment and training, but even in their best attempt could not perform the rescue).

    So why are you criticizing the one Agency who has the least training or equipment to perform that rescue, unless of course you are either stupid to realize the situation, or you are just a Cop basher.
    - -
    The following is part of the statement by the Almeda Fire Chief, and the rest can be read at the link at the bottom.

    D'Orazi (Almeda Fire Chief) said that while some fire personnel on scene may have had training enough in the past to effect a rescue, "it's been a couple of years since that program has really gotten the attention it deserves." Plus, he reiterated, policy dictated that no water rescue attempt be made.

    A Coast Guard boat and helicopter were also on the scene. Katrina Schwartz interviewed Coast Guard spokesman Marcus Brown, who said that when the Guard was notified of the incident, it launched a small boat, which couldn't get close enough because of the shallow depths the swimmer was in. A helicopter was also launched, Bro...



    There were THREE Agencies on the scene!

    1. Law Enforcement (who are neither trained or equipped for rescue operations).

    2. Fire Department (who have some training but not for water rescue, and also were not equipped).

    3. United States Coast Guard (with both the equipment and training, but even in their best attempt could not perform the rescue).

    So why are you criticizing the one Agency who has the least training or equipment to perform that rescue, unless of course you are either stupid to realize the situation, or you are just a Cop basher.
    - -
    The following is part of the statement by the Almeda Fire Chief, and the rest can be read at the link at the bottom.

    D'Orazi (Almeda Fire Chief) said that while some fire personnel on scene may have had training enough in the past to effect a rescue, "it's been a couple of years since that program has really gotten the attention it deserves." Plus, he reiterated, policy dictated that no water rescue attempt be made.

    A Coast Guard boat and helicopter were also on the scene. Katrina Schwartz interviewed Coast Guard spokesman Marcus Brown, who said that when the Guard was notified of the incident, it launched a small boat, which couldn't get close enough because of the shallow depths the swimmer was in. A helicopter was also launched, Brown said, but by the time it hovered over the scene, another swimmer was bringing the man -- who was deceased at that point -- onto shore.

    http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix...

    As far as I can tell, the Police followed every procedure that they had at that time, including the dispatch of the Fire Department and the Coast Guard, but for some strange reason, it's always the Police who are criticized.
    (more)
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2014/12/20 00:15:00

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