Alabama Town Lets Offenders Choose Between Church and Jail: Stupid or Smart?

by SodaHead News Posted 2011/09/24 21:48:16

Related Topics: Prayer, Police, Separation Of Church And State, Notre Dame, jail, Fashion, Alcohol, Smart, Pastor

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	Stupid	349 votes	70%
	Smart	153 votes	30%

In a move that may be unconstitutional, an Alabama town is letting non-violent offenders choose between time in church and time in jail.

Beginning next week, as part of a program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), misdemeanor offenders in Bay Minette can choose to attend the church of their choice every week for year instead of going to jail and paying fines.

According to WKRG-TV in Mobile, Alabama, 56 churches in North Baldwin County are participating in the program.

Operation ROC offenders are required to check in every week with the pastor or the police department, and if they make it through the entire year successfully, their cases will be dropped.

Bay Minette Police Chief Mike Rowland believes that the program will be effective in rehabilitating offenders. It will also save his department the $75 a day it costs to jail lawbreakers.

“Longevity is the key,” he said. ”A 30-day drug program doesn’t work. A 30-day alcohol program does not work. But long-term programs do work, and we believe that’s what’ll happen here.”

However, Operation ROC opponents believe that the program violates the separation of church and state, as it does not provide a secular alternative to church attendance.

But Notre Dame law professor Rick Garnett, an expert on constitutional law, says the issue isn’t so clear-cut.

"A lot of times in church-state cases, the lines aren't so crisp and clean," he told TIME. "This looks more like the kind of case where courts have been very cautious about pressuring people."

What do you think? Is Bay Minette’s Operation ROC stupid or smart?

+22

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Melody 2011/09/24 22:23:21

Stupid

+19
A criminal wouldn't learn from that. What, so you think because brainwashing works on children, it will work on everyone.
I might almost choose jail over church, but the rules don't say I have to behave or keep quiet ;)
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Professor Wizard 2012/12/10 14:27:57

Stupid

Judge did state "Church of their choice... he did not specify a Christian Church - - that kid could toss it in his face by attending "The Church of The Antichrist"!

Or a Wicca Church.

Or any number of other non-christian churches... as long as he attended a church.

I'm sure the judge would not be happy with that outcome.

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The Thinking Woman 2012/01/24 05:46:36

Stupid

+1
This is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. I am sure it will be challenged and overturned as unconstitutional. It is repulsive and wrong.

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bamabelle13✝❤ 2012/01/08 01:48:15

Smart

I think it's a good idea to allow them to hear the word of God and truly think about what they've done. It could help them choose to turn their lives around. :)

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LeAnn 2011/10/07 05:24:24

Stupid

And NOT stupid because they are letting them choose to go to Church, but now criminals may think they can do a crime and all they will have to do is go to Church for it. Commit a small crime...go to Church for it. It seems rather negative actually...like Church is only good for being an alternative to jail. I really don't see how Church could be a punishment, even if you are an atheist. You can always zone out for an hour and not listen. I can see what they are getting at by hoping it may rehabilitate them, and perhaps that is a good theory in itself, but I'm seeing more negative outcomes from this than positive. I think too many people would take advantage of it.

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Profess... to LeAnn 2012/12/10 14:33:01

+1
Very true.. Church is not punishment.. and it does not necessarily make criminals do good - as some of the most notorious of Gangsters and Mafia members were Avid and Devout Christian Church goers.

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seathanaich 2011/10/02 04:46:52

Stupid

+1
Church is a prison, but that doesn't make this right. The US is a Third World country, and proves it daily with the actions of people like this.

The problem isn't so much this decision, it's the mindset of retards who think that the courts are an appropriate means to use to indoctrinate others with their religion.

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overdog001 2011/09/27 17:18:25

Stupid

If you don't believe in a god, you go to jail. Clear first ammendment violation, and it'll fall as soon as it's challenged in court.

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JoeM 2011/09/27 16:04:10

Smart

Makes sense, they may need to toss in a community service option if an offender in that town is atheist. (somehow, I doubt that community has many of those.)

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FatherLiberty 2011/09/27 15:25:11

Stupid

Seperation of Church and States. What good will it be sending them to Church? Teach them how to be a great con artist?

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Z 2011/09/27 14:20:21

Stupid

Might be unconstitutional? As long as we interpret the 14th amendment the way we do, it is very unconstitutional. Not saying I don't like the opportunity, but this is clearly not going to help many, and those it would already realize that they need to change.

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Rore73 2011/09/27 13:28:18

Smart

+1
If the goal is to rehabilitate criminals, what better place to do that than church, and the cost savings to the government is a plus!

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polkastria 2011/09/27 10:32:15

Stupid

It's just asking for a legal challenge that will cost tax payers even more money.

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Theresa 2011/09/27 10:22:46

Smart

+1
I am sort od undecided with the responses..maybe other should have been added...to the answer..well it seems the most hardened criminals find God behind bars why not give them the opportunity to "work"for Him on the outside? After all we are talking about non violent offenders...make them paint buildings..mow lawns, trim bushes..clean up after church events..there are many jobs that can serve the community at churches..send them to help a sick or disabled parishioner..serve at a food bank I can think of many ways to work off a debt to the community...

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RandyScott 2011/09/27 09:18:38

Stupid

Since they are talking about non-violent offenders, there should be no requirement that they do Jail time. Some other form of long term Community service might be acceptable, but Church attendance is not it.

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red sun dragon 2011/09/27 08:01:15

Stupid

that is stupid because everyone nomatter what they should beable to go to church if they want
regadless of their past

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Mark 2011/09/27 07:37:36

Stupid

Sure, let non-violent offenders learn to be sex offenders? Great job, Alabama! lol

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K. Katt to Mark 2011/09/27 09:04:15

+2
As someone who is quite familiar with the criminal justice system, I'd like to make a couple of points. First, since these are non-violent misdemeanor offenders, the likelihood of going to jail is close to 0%. Second, the article mentions "instead of going to jail and paying fines." By far most of the defendants in this category would be in the "paying fines" category. Most defendants are also unable to pay fines. So the courts are often faced with what to do with minor offenders that don't warrant jail time, but can't pay a fine. That's one reason why there are so many community service and related programs. Community service programs cost money to administer. The beauty of this program is that it appears to be without cost. Third, almost all county jails are overcrowded. The Federal Courts have mandated how many prisoners may be housed in a specified square foot area. The only way that the local jail can meet this requirement is to let people out of jail. When I was in Los Angeles a person sentenced to a year in the county jail would be released in a couple of weeks. Since liberals don't want anybody to go to jail to begin with and conservatives want everyone to go to jail but are absolutely opposed to building new jails, this is an issue that doesn't get resolved.

All these ...

As someone who is quite familiar with the criminal justice system, I'd like to make a couple of points. First, since these are non-violent misdemeanor offenders, the likelihood of going to jail is close to 0%. Second, the article mentions "instead of going to jail and paying fines." By far most of the defendants in this category would be in the "paying fines" category. Most defendants are also unable to pay fines. So the courts are often faced with what to do with minor offenders that don't warrant jail time, but can't pay a fine. That's one reason why there are so many community service and related programs. Community service programs cost money to administer. The beauty of this program is that it appears to be without cost. Third, almost all county jails are overcrowded. The Federal Courts have mandated how many prisoners may be housed in a specified square foot area. The only way that the local jail can meet this requirement is to let people out of jail. When I was in Los Angeles a person sentenced to a year in the county jail would be released in a couple of weeks. Since liberals don't want anybody to go to jail to begin with and conservatives want everyone to go to jail but are absolutely opposed to building new jails, this is an issue that doesn't get resolved.

All these things taken together make this a smart choice in my opinion. I also doubt that it is unconstitutional since the defendant does have the choice to pay a fine or go to jail to avoid going to church.
(more)

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Mark to K. Katt 2011/09/27 19:51:32

If I had the choice, I'd certainly choose jail over being forced to go listen to people talking about mythical beings who love enjoy watching people suffer. At least, with jail, you merely have to deal with physical threats, rather than threats about your soul.

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K. Katt to Mark 2011/09/27 20:19:20

Well the questions was whether it was "smart" or "stupid." I'm an Atheist myself, so I don't know what I would do personally. I've seen the inside of enough jails (not as an inmate) to know that I wouldn't want to do that either.

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Mark to K. Katt 2011/09/28 09:47:57

True, but a jail is still just a physical construct that you can earn your way out of eventually, unlike the mental prison of religion. XD I wouldn't want to do either, and do my best to not do anything to warrant having to go to either.

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K. Katt to Mark 2011/09/28 23:03:26

I don't think sitting in church would put me into a mental prison.

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david shiel 2011/09/27 07:07:26

Smart

For some.

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rielyn.sunsorrow 2011/09/27 05:56:15

Smart

+2
The prisoners are allowed to "pick their own poison" as it were, a point in the plans favor.
If nothing else it would get them connected to a social group outside of the one they were involved with that supported their criminal lifestyle.

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coach k 2011/09/27 05:24:07

Stupid

send those law breakers to jail and make them pay for their stay

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strawberry 2011/09/27 04:37:32

Stupid

Neither time in church or time in jail will change them.

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dePSyChO 2011/09/27 03:25:42 (edited)

Stupid

Completely stupid. This is going to be taken advantage of so much. Anyone can lie and say they've been "changed" or something, but it'd be just that - a lie.

Also, it does violate the separation of church and state. What if the criminal was a Taoist, or a Buddhist, or a Jew, or a Muslim, or, you know, anything *but* a Christian. What about them?

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NatAlex23 2011/09/27 02:05:31

Stupid

+2
Just because you went to church doesn't mean you're a saint. I honestly hate the excuse of "I'm a good church going person." Some couple tried to use that on me when they ran over my foot while I was crossing the street (at a crosswalk, with a "walk" signal) and I was ready to report the incident to the police. I don't care if you're Jesus Christ. If you commit a crime, you don't get off free just because you're religious.

If you want to reduce the costs of housing inmates, give non-violent offenders community service work instead.

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strawberry to NatAlex23 2011/09/27 04:40:35

I don't think either going to church or going to jail will do any good to change their behavior. It has to start with proper intelligent discipline starting at toddler age. Their personalities are already formed.

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NatAlex23 to strawberry 2011/09/28 03:55:59

+1
The purpose of jail is not to change behavior. If anything, it makes it worse. Jail and prison provide a place to put criminals to protect the general public from them. However, prisons do have GED programs (which provide people a way to get a job that isn't completely dead end) and counseling with licensed psychologists and psychiatrists. That's where the behavior change comes in.

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Kozmo 2011/09/27 01:44:03

Smart

+1
There is more to do at church than just praying, I'm using it for fellowship in my recovery from being misdiagnosed. In general you meet better people than going to a licensed establishment. I attend two services, I sing in the choir of the Presbyterians in the morning and help set up & tidy, read scripture, pass the tray, offer communion for the LGBT-friendly protestant service in the evening at the same building as well as volunteer peeling spuds and serving a breakfast to the poor each month, I may not get paid, but the satisfaction of doing useful work is likely more beneficial than a dead-end mind-dulling CHORE even if you get $15/hr. or more. I also explore Buddhist meditation and twirling at the Sufis (Islamic Mystics, not Wahabbi Fundamentalists) and read the Tao. Zen.

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KR811 2011/09/27 01:13:41

Stupid

+1
Both choices are horrid.

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strawberry to KR811 2011/09/27 04:41:13

Neither choice works either.

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bob h. 2011/09/27 01:11:50

Stupid

+3
Wait; wait; In Alabama they tell tax-payers that it costs $75 a day to house misdemeaniacs? So, every inmate gets a $2,000 a mo. apartment, the rest for cuisine? Why would anyone give that up for some church.

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strawberry to bob h. 2011/09/27 04:43:24

+1
The U.S. needs to toughen up their prison systems. They need more executions not less, and take the worst of them, several at a time to the prison yard, shoot them by firing squad. Much faster and cheaper.

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Timbini 2011/09/26 23:53:35

Stupid

+2
there should be an alternative to jail for non-violent misdemeanor offenders, but attending a group meeting that worships 2,000 year old mythology? That's just advancing ignorance.

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Dweezle 2011/09/26 23:38:21

Stupid

+1
Strict supervised probation with long term participation is social work works, I have seen many repeat offenders get into "jailhouse ministries" so they can get out early, then revert to their old ways upon release. There are crooks in churches also.

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sally 2011/09/26 23:25:11

Stupid

+1
It just is, I don't like this idea.

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Boss 2011/09/26 23:22:58

Stupid

+1
in most churches most criminals will learn NOTHING...better if they were asked to do charity work....it would please Jesus more, I think...

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E Pluribus Unum 2011/09/26 23:06:24

Stupid

+1
Church is cruel and unusual punishment.

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Boss to E Pluri... 2011/09/26 23:18:34

+1
ehheeheh...I agree....

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