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A Simple Fact: Demand For Gasoline Is Down, Yet Prices Are Going Up Why Doesn't The Right's Little Chart Apply?

ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2012/03/23 23:59:15
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By John Vlahakis




gas price demand filed promo comments john vlahakis


Gasoline is heading northward once again. Pundits are saying it will pass the $5 a gallon price very soon.
Gas prices tend to spike up when spring and the summer travel season
gets going. But, this year it’s heading up before the vacation travel
season. Reasons for the price increase range from the global economic
recovery fueling demand, oil speculation, global unrest in the Straight
of Hormuz, and believe it or not the declining gasoline demand in the
U.S. Yes, U.S. gasoline demand is declining despite the slight up tick
in our own economy. U.S. gasoline demand has been heading south for
some time now.
So much so that the states have begun to raise the gas
tax to make up for the declining tax revenue from their gas taxes due to
declining consumption. Some states have begun to draft legislation to
tax electric car drivers separately because they can no longer get the
tax revenue from the gas pump on these drivers. Consumers are switching
to vehicles that get 30-40 MPG, which includes hybrids, and as the U.S.
nascent electric car share grows the demand for oil will continue to
diminish in this country. At $5 a gallon we are still a great deal
compared to Europe which deals with an $8-$9 a gallon cost. Image
paying $200 to fill up your tank. The good news despite the price
increase is that we as a nation are for the first time lowering our
consumption. We’re setting the new standard for the rest of the world.
Now it’s their turn to follow our lead.

While Americans are using fewer gallons of oil per person, consumers in
India, China and other emerging markets are using more. In 2010, China
added 10 million more cars. With a population of more than 1 billion
people, that nation is going to use more oil in the future and that
demand will likely drive prices up.
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  • Comment
    Gยเtคг Plคאєг ( JFK Democrat )
    +14
    They do not need charts to Blame Obama. Look its easy to do

    Them) It's Obamas Fault.
    Us) But gas went to an average of $4.28 in 2008
    Them) STFU. that was Obamas fault too.
    Us) Well, how can that be
    Them) I don't know how to explain it, it just is you jacka**

    You notice before they were done they had to call a name
    Then you have this stupid saying at the end of every uninformed reply

    Gotcha;!

    LOL, this sh*t cracks me up

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  • Giantfan 2012/03/26 22:27:40
    Things don't always fall into a nice little box.
    Giantfan
    Well I'm going on 11 days since my last fill up and I still have over 1/2 tank. Got rid of a truck and got a Hyundai Elantra. Big difference.
  • The Gipper~PWCM~JLA 2012/03/25 22:30:55
    Things don't always fall into a nice little box.
    The Gipper~PWCM~JLA
    Too bad you can't blame Bush, huh?
  • heirsoftheking 2012/03/25 03:08:27
    Comment
    heirsoftheking
    Barack Obama and the environmentalists want us and the whole world weaned off oil, and ultimately they want us weaned off it completely. They say gas emissions cause global warming - maybe a little bit of it, but only a smidgen of the global warming caused be the ash and heat release caused by volcanoes and earthquakes. Besides the Bible prophesies that oil will be a precious commodity in the end-times, so the environmentalists (and Obama) will never get their way.

    With that in mind, it wouldn't surprise me if gas prices go higher and higher.
  • 4dc 2012/03/24 23:21:49
    Things don't always fall into a nice little box.
    4dc
    demand is down? so you don't need your groceries this week? the demand is down because it's getting to the point where working people can't afford it
  • ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 4dc 2012/03/24 23:22:31
    ὤTṻnde΄ӂ
    Demand for gasoline is down, Einstein.
  • 4dc ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2012/03/24 23:25:59
    4dc
    nope...people being able to afford gasoline is down...big difference...what's the opposite of einstein? stupid?
  • Avenged7 2012/03/24 18:01:54
    Things don't always fall into a nice little box.
    Avenged7
    +1
    Don't ever listen to the right wing minions on here. Because they do think it fit into a nice little box. They have been indoctrinated to believe that, but even the right wing bosses don't even abide by that conception. The reason gas is going up and demand is going down is mostly because of wall street speculators. This is the wall street that donates a lot of money to the right wing, and they will stand by and protect wall street even when it goes against their free market ideology that the free market solves everything!!!
  • Reichstolz 2012/03/24 14:08:34
    Comment
    Reichstolz
    The absolute ignorance of the left is humorous. Yes US demand is down, production on private lands is up, and world wide demand is up. We have become a net exporter of gasoline, which pressures our domestic market to produce more oil and refine more to bring the cost down. It is funny when the drill baby drill mantra was the rage, the dems said you can drill your way out of it. Yet, they pressured Bush to release strategic reserves and prices came down. The supply and demand rules will always work regardless how stupid you think the American public is.
  • ὤTṻnde΄ӂ Reichstolz 2012/03/24 17:30:50
    ὤTṻnde΄ӂ
    I read this first sentence. I don't want to read (ever) your rant that followed. It takes a really stupid, stupid person to say what they believe is right and what experts believe are only right if they agree with you. Good ridance.
  • Damocles Reichstolz 2012/03/24 17:48:05
    Damocles
    +1
    Let me see if I have supply and demand figured out here.
    If supply is LOW and demand is HIGH ---- The price of gas should go UP---
    If supply is HIGH and demand is LOW ---- The price of gas should go DOWN ---
    Drill baby drill was never the mantra of the Dems, one-half term mayor of Sasquatch Alaska, Sarah Palin coined that phrase during her demolition of the Republican ticket in 2010.
    Since we are awash in oil here in the U.S. the oil companies are shipping the excess to other countries to profit from the jacked up prices of the oil commodoties traders. And our gasoline prices continue to climb. Supply in the U.S.--UP Demand in the U.S.--DOWN.
    This sounds like profiteering, not supply and demand.
  • Reichstolz Damocles 2012/03/25 15:44:06
    Reichstolz
    It is a world market, any increase in supply will lower prices.
  • Damocles Reichstolz 2012/03/25 15:49:06
    Damocles
    Then what the hell is going on here? Supply is up, demand is down, and the prices continue to climb. Price goughing?
  • Reichstolz Damocles 2012/03/25 16:50:35
    Reichstolz
    Supply on a global scale is NOT up enough to alleviate the rise in demand. We are producing more domestically on private land, our production does not elevate world supply, at current levels. That is why this year we became a net exporter of gasoline.
  • Damocles Reichstolz 2012/03/25 17:15:33
    Damocles
    China is one of the largest importers of oil and oil products, even their demand is down. Russia is producing oil at record levels. Nothing seems to fit the supply and demand model. In a perfect world, if supply exceeded demand by any margin, the price should go down. It is far from a perfect world. Trading in oil futures is asking for speculators to run up the price. We need to get oil removed from the commodities market.
  • Reichstolz Damocles 2012/03/26 13:35:48
    Reichstolz
    If you remove oil from the commodities market, you will essentially end the dollar. Currently that is the only thing holding any value to our currency.
  • Damocles Reichstolz 2012/03/26 13:49:38
    Damocles
    More complicated than I thought. How does that work?
  • Reichstolz Damocles 2012/03/26 13:52:59 (edited)
    Reichstolz
    Oil is valued in US dollars, that is the only reason our dollar value has not collapsed, and we are a safe haven't for investment. There has been a lot of rumblings in the IMF and China to remove that valuation, and it is estimated if it happens we will lose 60% of the value of a dollar. Considering the dollar value is at an all time low, it would essentially be play money.
  • Damocles Reichstolz 2012/03/26 14:49:40
    Damocles
    Wouldn't that effect other oil producing countries also?
  • Reichstolz Damocles 2012/03/26 15:09:17
    Reichstolz
    It would depend on what currency was used for valuation or if it would be its own value, like gold.
  • Damocles Reichstolz 2012/03/26 16:10:35
    Damocles
    Over my head. I'll watch for your posts.
  • Michaelene 2012/03/24 13:49:01
    Comment
    Michaelene
    30 refineries have closed in the last decade. 50% of the refining capacity of the entire east coast has been lost in the last 6 months. The West Coast lost 3 more huge refineries in the last 13 months.

    There has been an official hearing from Homeland Security subcomittees on critical infrastructure which concluded there will be supply shortages of jet fuel and diesel during peak season (begins in May along with the price increase due to additives required during summer months).
    http://www.reuters.com/articl...

    Valero St Lucia plant now closing too.
    http://www.reuters.com/articl...

    This is a global problem, resulting in Sarkozy in negotiations to prevent sales or closure of any refineries in the country (for 5 years) while Italy thinks about it.
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/...
  • sjalan Michaelene 2012/03/24 14:38:05
    sjalan
    +1
    Well lets see, a 1902 plant being closed by Sunoco Why? Because it is old and Sunoco doesn't want to upgrade it to modern standards. Seems to me that is a business decision on Sunoco NOT a political decision. Same with their other plant. Sounds to me like they want out of the refining business and no one wants to take over their delapidated plants. I wonder why? Do some research and you'll find that these plants have had more accidents than any two plants any place else in the nation and have failed their last thee EPA inspections. Typical of big business today. Run it into the ground and walk away.

    Conoco Trainer plant is also idle, Wonder why there too? Same thing EPA inspection failures and Conoco is unwilling to upgrade the plant. "In a statement, Houston-based ConocoPhillips said it decided to sell the Trainer complex because of the "level of investment required to remain competitive." In addition, the company has been evaluating all of its refineries under a plan to reduce its refining capacity."

    Seems to me American petroleum companies have decided that refining oil for North America isn't their cup of tea anymore. YEP use it up, don't maintain it and throw it away. Sounds a lot like a Bain Capitol attitude, buy it suck it dry and throw it away.

    Read more: http://www.phi...
    Well lets see, a 1902 plant being closed by Sunoco Why? Because it is old and Sunoco doesn't want to upgrade it to modern standards. Seems to me that is a business decision on Sunoco NOT a political decision. Same with their other plant. Sounds to me like they want out of the refining business and no one wants to take over their delapidated plants. I wonder why? Do some research and you'll find that these plants have had more accidents than any two plants any place else in the nation and have failed their last thee EPA inspections. Typical of big business today. Run it into the ground and walk away.

    Conoco Trainer plant is also idle, Wonder why there too? Same thing EPA inspection failures and Conoco is unwilling to upgrade the plant. "In a statement, Houston-based ConocoPhillips said it decided to sell the Trainer complex because of the "level of investment required to remain competitive." In addition, the company has been evaluating all of its refineries under a plan to reduce its refining capacity."

    Seems to me American petroleum companies have decided that refining oil for North America isn't their cup of tea anymore. YEP use it up, don't maintain it and throw it away. Sounds a lot like a Bain Capitol attitude, buy it suck it dry and throw it away.

    Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/...
    Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else
    (more)
  • Michaelene sjalan 2012/03/24 15:03:01
    Michaelene
    yes, I read the Daily News and Inquirer everyday, so unlike your selective article source, there has been coverage of this topic broadly both in favor and in opposition of the closures.
    I see you are familiar with EPA's involvement, thanks for bringing that up.

    Surely you are aware of the fact that the Philadelphia plant has been upgraded throughout it's history (installed new equipment as recently as November) and has all requirements necessary to operate (i.e. wet gas scrubber et al)
    Surely you've read of the hoops and red tape the plants needed for the EPA to approve their purchases of both sweet and sour crude?
    Why? To reduce capacity.

    The reason for the closure is because a refinery has both a minimum and maximum capacity for safety purposes. When the plant cannot purchase enough crude to operate at minimum capacity it becomes an unsafe and unstable environment.
    Even the 4 billion dollar bride presented by the administration to keep it operating was not enough to prevent the loss of 15,000 jobs within 12 miles in 6 months during an election year.

    It is interesting that you pretend this is a single company or local problem. Perhaps you'd like to address the same situation occuring on the west coast, St Lucia, France, Italy Australia, etc???

    Here is some food for thought:

    http:...
    yes, I read the Daily News and Inquirer everyday, so unlike your selective article source, there has been coverage of this topic broadly both in favor and in opposition of the closures.
    I see you are familiar with EPA's involvement, thanks for bringing that up.

    Surely you are aware of the fact that the Philadelphia plant has been upgraded throughout it's history (installed new equipment as recently as November) and has all requirements necessary to operate (i.e. wet gas scrubber et al)
    Surely you've read of the hoops and red tape the plants needed for the EPA to approve their purchases of both sweet and sour crude?
    Why? To reduce capacity.

    The reason for the closure is because a refinery has both a minimum and maximum capacity for safety purposes. When the plant cannot purchase enough crude to operate at minimum capacity it becomes an unsafe and unstable environment.
    Even the 4 billion dollar bride presented by the administration to keep it operating was not enough to prevent the loss of 15,000 jobs within 12 miles in 6 months during an election year.

    It is interesting that you pretend this is a single company or local problem. Perhaps you'd like to address the same situation occuring on the west coast, St Lucia, France, Italy Australia, etc???

    Here is some food for thought:
    gas buddy chines capacity
    http://blog.gasbuddy.com/post...
    http://blog.gasbuddy.com/post...
    (more)
  • sjalan Michaelene 2012/03/24 19:40:36
    sjalan
    +1
    The primary reason the Phildelphia plant is being closed is the upgrades are not enough to meet even the requirements of 10 years ago. They have kicked and screamed every step of the way, having to be dragged like a little kid to schoo, when being a proper community citizen would have created a premium price for the plant today yet now they are stuck with an albatross and soon to be boat anchor.
  • Michaelene sjalan 2012/03/24 19:56:47
    Michaelene
    I'm sorry you refuse to see the bigger picture as if this one refinery closure could affect the GLOBAL PROBLEM.
    I live here, Sunoco is a proper community citizen in our schools, our city planning, our festivals, our jobs. I've been on this for years.

    The taxpayers and consumers in America are the ones who are on the Titanic and there are only 4 Reps helping us prepare the life boats. (thought you'd like that analogy)
    Read my response below or don't, your choice.
  • ὤTṻnde΄ӂ Michaelene 2012/03/24 17:31:45
    ὤTṻnde΄ӂ
    Regardless, the DEMAND is DOWN, the SUPPLY is UP along with PRICES.
  • Michaelene ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2012/03/24 19:37:23
    Michaelene
    Obviously, per the outcome of the hearing (Reuters article cited above) "There will be a gap of supply until pipelines are extended to the east coast region".

    Rep Meehan says "Today the Department of Labor announced a National Emergency Grant for $5 million to support displaced workers from the ConocoPhillips and Sunoco refineries. U.S. Rep. Patrick Meehan (PA-07) advocated for this federal grant on behalf of the refinery workers." (15,000 families without an income in the Tri state region PA/NJ/DE).

    This is considered a matter of national security "National Emergency" when Homeland Security has anticipated supply shortages.

    A 1c increase is a 1.4 billion dollar loss to our economy while also losing the hundreds of millions in tax revenue
    You asked the question, I'm informing you of what is happening and showing you how other nations are addressing this crisis as it develops.

    Affecting the PRICES of gas, diesel, jet fuel and the many byproducts of the refined oil will create a SUPPLYand DEMAND disaster of hundreds of thousands of products like food, medicines, and all vinyl rubber and plastic etc.
  • sjalan Michaelene 2012/03/24 22:54:00
    sjalan
    I don't see your connection with the plant closings on the east coast with $5/gallon gasoline in California. I don't see it for Arizona,$4/gallon, who get most of their fuel from Houston.
    Same with Sante Fe,NM $3.75/gallon.Each up about $0.70 per gallon.

    No logic involved.

    Additionally, Oklahoma refineries have just gotten the completed Phase 1 of the Keystone pipeline program. There are five major refined product lines from Oklahoma to the north east as it is, that are under used.

    http://www.api.org/oil-and-na...

    The line from California is out of service for the next 4-6 months

    There is something fishy and I think I know what it is, but before I say it I am going to try and confirm it.
  • Michaelene sjalan 2012/03/25 11:46:39
    Michaelene
    Perhaps because I haven't even begun to describe the west coast's refinery problems, maybe you can reasearch them?
    I think I've made my point by citing the international sources to show how closing refineries is a global problem and how this situation is an impending crisis.
  • sjalan Michaelene 2012/03/25 16:34:27
    sjalan
    The impending crisis is governed by two items.

    1. Protection of our own assets for stabilizing our own economy .

    2. Our conversion from petroleum products to produce energy to renewable sources of energy.

    THOSE are our first and primary reasons to NOT ship refined products over seas nor raw crude.

    The West coast refineries are located in three major area. Long Beach, Santa Barbara and Richmond -- California. The far more frightening thing that this country has to face is that these three areas ALL are located over major earthquake fault systems.

    http://www.theodora.com/pipel...



    http://www.quake.ca.gov/gmaps...

    IF the Hayward Fault in NorCal were to rupture in its predicted 7.6 quake the plants in Richmond would be completely out of service for YEARS.

    If the ANY of the three faults located under rupture like one did in 1933 the refineries there would be out of service for YEARS. My mother was in this one. She said it took almost 4 years to bring the two refineries back on line. And they didn't give a damn about EPA stuff then. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    IF the series of faults under Santa Barbara rupture like the one in 1925 Again, it would take years to bring them back on line. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ea...

    Moving to Texas and the refineries there. As we saw with the dama...
























    The impending crisis is governed by two items.

    1. Protection of our own assets for stabilizing our own economy .

    2. Our conversion from petroleum products to produce energy to renewable sources of energy.

    THOSE are our first and primary reasons to NOT ship refined products over seas nor raw crude.

    The West coast refineries are located in three major area. Long Beach, Santa Barbara and Richmond -- California. The far more frightening thing that this country has to face is that these three areas ALL are located over major earthquake fault systems.

    http://www.theodora.com/pipel...

    country areas located major earthquake fault systems httpwww theodora compipel

    http://www.quake.ca.gov/gmaps...

    IF the Hayward Fault in NorCal were to rupture in its predicted 7.6 quake the plants in Richmond would be completely out of service for YEARS.

    If the ANY of the three faults located under rupture like one did in 1933 the refineries there would be out of service for YEARS. My mother was in this one. She said it took almost 4 years to bring the two refineries back on line. And they didn't give a damn about EPA stuff then. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    IF the series of faults under Santa Barbara rupture like the one in 1925 Again, it would take years to bring them back on line. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ea...

    Moving to Texas and the refineries there. As we saw with the damage done by hurricane Katrina, the Texas refineries did not come back online for 34 months for the last and largest one.

    North to Oklahoma, There are 30+ Known faults in Oklahoma. It is not a quite state earthquake wise either.
    http://www.ogs.ou.edu/earthqu...

    Overall and far more important to our countries future energy recourses is the creation of alternate energy sources that will take the place of our dependence upon OIL.

    In addition to these treats to the stability of our very fragile earths crust we have global warming to contend with. But unlike many other people I am certain we can survive a higher temperature without too much problem. My much larger concern is the ice melt off Greenland.

    http://www.scientificamerican...

    And it is not because of rising ocean levels, although predictions would put Houston underwater and New Orleans too. My very large concern is with the Earths crust and the sudden (geologically speaking) removal of 683,751 cu mi weighing 5.9589 E+18 pounds (147,197,952,000 x 59.2 x 683,751:cubic feet in a cubic mile x weight per cubic foot of ice x cubic miles of ice on Greenland. )

    I can't even tell you what or how to say that number, but it is enough to deform the crust of the earth by its shear weight. There are two factors built into this.
    1. Within the next 25 years enough ice melt will have taken place to allow the 6 major volcanoes which are under this ice capping of Greenland to begin erupting again at far more regular intervals.
    2, The release of the ice melt will allow the crust to neutralize back to its original shape before the 100,000 year old ice cap formed. The neutralization process with affect other areas around the planet. ESPECIALLY the North American Continent. The New Madrid fault going right up the middle of the continent.

    http://www.scchealth.org/docs...

    The New Madrid fault can be likened to a crack in an asphalt road with a tree root growing under it. The internal pressures of the fluctuations of the continent will be affected by the release of pressure from the Greenland island/continent. The earthquake activity through out the planet from this ice melt will make the last 300 years of activity look like a hiccup too what is to come.

    Again, the absolute need to become totally energy independent of foreign sources and even our own petroleum. In reality natural gas isn't even a good alternative.

    But of course our planets goverments can't see past the ends of their own noses and those that have to satisfy their immediate greed don't really give a damn. There is FAR MORE important things for the survival of our species a foot than the fighting over oil capacity and who's going to make what.

    I hope you now see a much larger picture to our survival as a species.
    (more)
  • Michaelene sjalan 2012/03/25 16:45:56
    Michaelene
    Oh boy, thanks for the lessons on the california etc earthquakes and faultlines.
    Why have you failed to mention the refinery closures?
  • sjalan Michaelene 2012/03/25 16:55:30
    sjalan
    Because the only one that has closed has been the Valero diesel/avfuel plant for retrofit to accept more higher sulfur oil. It will be back on line in about 18 months as it is there is an overproduction of diesel/avfuel in the North West and their other plants are able to handle the load. Not enough storeage to keep the plant open at profitable production levels so time to upgrade the plant.
  • Michaelene sjalan 2012/03/25 17:07:08
    Michaelene
    try again, I'll give you a hint. Search refinery closures, not maintenance, you will find 2 in CA and one in WA.
  • sjalan Michaelene 2012/03/25 17:10:34
    sjalan
    A buddy of mine works for Valero at one of the Richmond plants that was bought from Arco. That plant is the only one that has closed and is under reconstrution. He is one of the foremen there.
  • Michaelene sjalan 2012/03/25 17:15:25
    Michaelene
    Yes, i have heard from my friends in Valero as well.
    Can you ask him if he also attended any emergency media communications meetings during the last month.
    There is a gag order accross the industry.
  • sjalan Michaelene 2012/03/25 17:44:33
    sjalan
    +1
    I'll ask him the next time I email him.
  • Michaelene sjalan 2012/03/26 13:08:23
    Michaelene
    Good idea. My understanding is that it was a mandatory meeting for all employees in the industries. One friend was called in from vacation to attend.
  • sjalan Michaelene 2012/03/26 17:20:59
    sjalan
    +1
    Called back from vacation? Hope the company paid for the call back.

    I haven't gotten an answer back yet, I emailed him last night at his personal at home email which he checks only intermittently.
  • Michaelene sjalan 2012/03/29 13:09:46
    Michaelene
    Yes, he was paid for the schedule change and for the hours spent in the meeting too.
  • sjalan ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2012/03/24 19:37:53
    sjalan
    Even with the removal of these three east coast plants, the total capacity is amost double what it was 10 years ago.

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