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"A Day which will live in Infamy", on this day in history...

Tits ISHBAHFF McGee 2011/12/07 16:54:51
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5166

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, on December 7, 1941,
stunned virtually everyone in the United States military. Japan’s
carrier-launched bombers found Pearl Harbor totally unprepared.
President Franklin Roosevelt quickly addressed Congress to ask for a
declaration of war as illustrated in this audio excerpt. Although he
never mentioned Europe or the fact that Germany had by then declared war
on the United States, the Pearl Harbor attack allowed him to begin the
larger intervention in the European war he had long wanted.



lest we forget.

Can you even imagine how different the world would be looking back if things had not of transpired as they did?

fdr



pear harbor
pear harbor


fdr ww2
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  • Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWC... 2011/12/07 18:41:57
    Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWCM~JLA
    +4
    How could any American not remember December 7th, 1941.....my Dad served proudly in the Phillipines......a war he spoke of very little even until his death in '92......we're losing the valiant soldiers I read at the rate of 130,000 a day....God Bless them all!!

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  • Foxhound BN0 2011/12/08 10:45:15
    Foxhound BN0
    We will see your day of infamy and raise you one.
    hiroshima nagasaki gif
    hiroshima nuke gif
  • Foxhoun... Foxhoun... 2011/12/08 10:46:11
    Foxhound BN0
    i think they folded.
  • oldcavpilot 2011/12/08 02:12:36
    oldcavpilot
    +1
    My late Father was there. He was Army (Combat Engineer) stationed at Schofield Barracks, adjacent to one the main Army airfields, which were the first targets. If you've seen 'From Here to Eternity', my Father did what Burt Lancaster did, and took weapons to the roofs. They shot down 3 Jap planes.

    He spent the next 3 1/2 years making a total of 12 landings, never later than the second wave. Out of the 200 man Company that went to support the Marines in Guadalcanal (Marines didn't have SeaBees help yet, so they 'borrowed' the Army Engineers) only 12 of the original men were there when he came home. He had been on islands for 4 1/2 years, never home.

    That, my friends, is Sacrifice.
  • Tits IS... oldcavp... 2011/12/08 04:41:59
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    Yep. I really think my generation and the ones after me would not be able to do the same things the men and women did in that era between the depression and the wars. We are far to soft and spoiled.
  • Jay 2011/12/07 23:49:48
  • Tits IS... Jay 2011/12/08 04:42:33
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    The pictures of the soldiers today brings tears to my eyes.
  • Flowers 2011/12/07 20:20:11
    Flowers
    +2
    tribute to pearl harbor tribute to pearl harbor

    *moment of silence for those lost*

    That day forever changed not only the lives of every US citizen, but it also changed the course of our future forever. Sad, sad day. Thanks mcgee :)
  • Tits IS... Flowers 2011/12/07 20:56:55
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    thank you.

    I can't imagine how we'd be living if WW2 hadn't of ended up the way it did or if it didn't happen.
  • Larson Whipsnade 2011/12/07 20:19:12
    Larson Whipsnade
    +1
    I did indeed!
  • Guru Casper BN-ZERO 2011/12/07 19:06:20
    Guru Casper BN-ZERO
    +1
    yes
    thank YOU!
  • Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWC... 2011/12/07 18:41:57
    Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWCM~JLA
    +4
    How could any American not remember December 7th, 1941.....my Dad served proudly in the Phillipines......a war he spoke of very little even until his death in '92......we're losing the valiant soldiers I read at the rate of 130,000 a day....God Bless them all!!
  • Tits IS... Deere G... 2011/12/07 19:28:23
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    Thank you for sharing about your father.

    You must miss him alot.
  • Deere G... Tits IS... 2011/12/07 19:38:35
    Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWCM~JLA
    +1
    Oh I do..as anyone misses their dad.....a true southern gentleman in every respect and a great patriot.....a man who loved his country.....
  • Tits IS... Deere G... 2011/12/07 19:40:04
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    He sounds like a great person and a great father.

    You were very lucky to have him.

    I feel for the men who had to live after the war with the memories of it. I can't imagine being "normal" afterwards. They see things, we can't imagine.
  • Deere G... Tits IS... 2011/12/07 22:02:07
    Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWCM~JLA
    +1
    My dad wouldn't eat rice for over 20 years after he came home.....he saw decomposed human remains spread out over rice patties in the Phillipines and he equated rice as maggots......he finally liked rice again just a few years before he died......yes a very wonderful man....and there were many like him.....Our WWII veterans should never be forgotten.....no veteran should be forgotten.....they did the dirty work so we all can live free.....
  • Tits IS... Deere G... 2011/12/07 23:37:13
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    UGGGH. That would scar a person for life! yuck, humans on rice patties.

    I agree veterans should not be forgotten!
  • Deere G... Tits IS... 2011/12/08 14:35:51
    Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWCM~JLA
    Yes that was how the Phillipinos and Japanese used them for compost I guess.....no country values human life like the Christians I don't think..just my personal opinion.....each culture has it's way of dealing with the dead.....
  • Tits IS... Deere G... 2011/12/09 16:26:26 (edited)
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    Death rituals are fascinating.


    I think buddhism values life fairlyinteresting. Their death rituals and sickness rituals are very interesting as well.
  • Deere G... Tits IS... 2011/12/09 17:32:08
    Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWCM~JLA
    +1
    The Hindu is strange......or some facits are.....
  • Tits IS... Deere G... 2011/12/09 20:14:45
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    I think every religion has strange rituals of some sort.
    Hinduism, I guess when you think about it, can be seen as strange.
  • Deere G... Tits IS... 2011/12/09 20:19:52
    Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWCM~JLA
    +1
    Strange only in our eyes I'm sure:-)
  • Tits IS... Deere G... 2011/12/09 20:21:47
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    Isn't it the Hindu faith that practises reincarnation while everyone at the funeral is there?

    That would be upsetting to see IMO.
  • Deere G... Tits IS... 2011/12/09 20:26:11
    Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWCM~JLA
    I'm not sure.....I know the Japanese believe in reincarnation......I know the Hindus burn the bodies and throw the remains in the river.....I saw in some part of India or Bangledesh where they have a huge catfish that has developed a taste for human flesh.....they have grown to very large sizes.....it's a variety of man eating catfish.....it is attacking and killing bathers now.......it's called a Gooch...... There is a documentary on the animal planet on it...
    gooch catfish
  • Tits IS... Deere G... 2011/12/09 22:56:37
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    wholly crap! a man eating catfish???? that's scary!

    I didn't know they threw remains in the rive! good grief!
  • Deere G... Tits IS... 2011/12/10 02:02:50
    Deere Guy ~POTL~PWCM~JL~PWCM~JLA
    +1
    Yes.....It has developed a crave for human flesh.....over time.....catfish are known scavengers.....and due to the amount being fumped into the rivers it has developed a taste for human flesh.....it's now attacking live people.....very amazing what animals and fish can adapt to.....
  • No nonsense NanC...don't BS... 2011/12/07 17:43:37
    No nonsense NanC...don't BS me!
    +3
    Yes, I remembered this to be Pearl Harbor Day which was a sneak attack on America.. Unlike what a Muslim SH member said to me about 0911...... "get over it, we got over Pearl Harbor, didn't we?", that is truly a day which will live in infamy........ the day America was attacked without provocation and many innocent Americans died. It was the same with 0911.....many died when the Twin Towers, the Pentagon and on that 4th airplane
    when terrorists sneak attacked innocent Americans without provocation and
    over 3000 died.
  • Tits IS... No nons... 2011/12/07 19:30:08
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +2
    What a terrible thing to have said to you.

    Obviously, I wasn't around for WW2, but the images of 9/11 will never be forgotten to me either.
  • No nons... Tits IS... 2011/12/07 20:07:17
    No nonsense NanC...don't BS me!
    +2
    It was totally insensitive, and IMHO, it was unAmerican.
  • Tits IS... No nons... 2011/12/07 20:57:40
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    Hopefully whomever stated that to you, was being a troll and didn't truthfully mean it.
  • No nons... Tits IS... 2011/12/07 21:53:29
    No nonsense NanC...don't BS me!
    It was meant just the way it was said...............
  • irish 2011/12/07 17:38:21
    irish
    +1
    fdr was a war criminal much like george bush with 9/11. fdr provoked the japanese and allowed pearl harbor to happen to get america in to ww2. it is well documented. the fact that he scapegoated kimmel and short was another crime. their families had to fight with the govt to have them reinstated posthumously.
    a day of infamy indeed. pearl  harbor the mother of  all  conspiracies
  • Tits IS... irish 2011/12/07 19:31:09
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    +1
    Never heard that FDR was a war criminal before or that he provoked Japan.
  • Dan ☮ R... Tits IS... 2011/12/07 19:48:06 (edited)
    Dan ☮ R P ☮ 2012 ☮
    +2
    From mainline history, FDR campaigned on the platform "He kept us out of war" but was secretly preparing for war.

    If you go into some shady aspects of the government, you com across the McCollum memo which states:
    "If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better. At all events we must be fully prepared to accept the threat of war."
    Although not a smoking gun, as apparently there is no evidence FDR read it (aside from doing everything suggested in the memo), it does suggest that there was some dubious activity behind the scenes.

    But one thing that is undeniable is the internment of the Japanese Americans.

    There is also the issue of how the war ended. Months before MacArthur pointed out that the Japanese were ready to surrender with one condition - allow the Empire to still exist after the war. But instead the government pushed for an unconditional surrender. Interestingly enough, the "unconditional surrender" included a condition. The Japanese Empire was allowed to still rule.
  • Tits IS... Dan ☮ R... 2011/12/07 19:51:34
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    Yes, the japanese Americans- I can almost understand why they did it. Kind of like how now people don't trust certain people living in their country due to the wars going on now. I'm not agreeing with it, don't get me wrong.

    Many people believe FDR didn't get into the war quick enough, and the fact they waited so long was wrong.
  • Dan ☮ R... Tits IS... 2011/12/07 19:56:20
    Dan ☮ R P ☮ 2012 ☮
    +2
    Its not much different than the anti-muslim attitudes most people have these days. Since the first muslim I ever met came out and completely damned the terrorists to hell, I dont have that attitude towards muslims.

    For the war, I dont know whether it was right or wrong for us to get involved, but I dont believe that the attack on our soil was unprovoked (whether intentional or not, our foreign policy was pissing off japan), and I completely disagree with many of the actions during the war. Especially dropping the Atomic Bombs and illegal internment of many Japanese-Americans that were still loyal to America after their treatment.
  • Tits IS... Dan ☮ R... 2011/12/07 21:00:25
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    I've never thought of America antagonizing Japan to be honest with you. I don't know what the foreign policy was back then to piss them off.

    I'm not sure what actions during the war you mean but I would say the bomb was a scary thing. That changed the coarse the world has been on ever since.

    And yes, treating the Japanese americans like that was wrong. Same as how muslims are grouped together and treated these days.
  • Dan ☮ R... Tits IS... 2011/12/07 21:11:45
    Dan ☮ R P ☮ 2012 ☮
    +2
    Trade embargoes were a big factor back then. Not only refusing to allow American oil to be sold to Japan, and stopping any other country from as well. We also were financing Japan's enemies through things such as the lend lease act. There was also, as I recall, some japanese submarines in neutral water near pearl harbor that were attacked before we were attacked.
    The history books say we were isolationist... but we were far from that. The Us government was deeply diplomatically involved.
    Whether it was intentional or not... I dont know but there is evidence that some elements of the government did want the attack on Pearl Harbor.

    As for the bomb, I originally thought it was the best option as I believed the false dilemma taught in schools (bomb or invasion). But today i'm more aware of the general's opinions and analyses of the war, and have come to the conclusion that there were at least 2 other options. One, accept the conditional surrender as suggested by MacArthur. Or two, take the suggestion of one of the men that dropped the atomic bombs. It would have been better to just continue bombardments until Japan had the choice of unconditional surrender to America or to Russia as Russia was coming now that the European theater was over. Obviously they would have to choose to surrender to America.
  • Tits IS... Dan ☮ R... 2011/12/07 21:16:13
    Tits ISHBAHFF McGee
    I was taught that America was Isolationist as well, and that is part of the problem with the Depression, it extended it. Interesting.

    thank you for the history lesson. I'm not a war buff at all.
  • Q Dan ☮ R... 2011/12/07 21:59:32 (edited)
    Q
    +1
    I hope you don't mind me jumping in here but I'm not to sure about MacArthur's claim of Japan willing to surrender, after all it goes against their Bushido code : Bushido would provide a spiritual shield to let soldiers fight to the end.[17] As the war turned, the spirit of bushido was invoked to urge that all depended on the firm and united soul of the nation.[18] When the Battle of Attu was lost, attempts were made to make the more than two thousand Japanese deaths an inspirational epic for the fighting spirit of the nation.[19] Arguments that the plans for the Battle of Leyte Gulf, involving all Japanese ships, would expose Japan to serious danger if they failed, were countered with the plea that the Navy be permitted to "bloom as flowers of death."[20] The first proposals of organized suicide attacks met resistance because while bushido called for a warrior to be always aware of death, but not to view it as the sole end, but the desperate straits brought about acceptance.[21] Such attacks were acclaimed as the true spirit of bushido.[22]
    Denials of mistreatment of prisoners of war declared that they were being well-treated by virtue of bushido generosity.[23] Broadcast interviews with prisoners were also described as being not propaganda but out of sympathy with the enemy, ...














    I hope you don't mind me jumping in here but I'm not to sure about MacArthur's claim of Japan willing to surrender, after all it goes against their Bushido code : Bushido would provide a spiritual shield to let soldiers fight to the end.[17] As the war turned, the spirit of bushido was invoked to urge that all depended on the firm and united soul of the nation.[18] When the Battle of Attu was lost, attempts were made to make the more than two thousand Japanese deaths an inspirational epic for the fighting spirit of the nation.[19] Arguments that the plans for the Battle of Leyte Gulf, involving all Japanese ships, would expose Japan to serious danger if they failed, were countered with the plea that the Navy be permitted to "bloom as flowers of death."[20] The first proposals of organized suicide attacks met resistance because while bushido called for a warrior to be always aware of death, but not to view it as the sole end, but the desperate straits brought about acceptance.[21] Such attacks were acclaimed as the true spirit of bushido.[22]
    Denials of mistreatment of prisoners of war declared that they were being well-treated by virtue of bushido generosity.[23] Broadcast interviews with prisoners were also described as being not propaganda but out of sympathy with the enemy, such sympathy as only bushido could inspire.[24]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Here's another perspective from American, British and Japanese historians.
    The work by American historians has been reinforced by the labours of their Japanese counterparts. The Japanese peace feelers directed at the Soviet Union have been exposed as belated attempts to delay a Soviet entry into the war, not genuine attempts at negotiation.

    (It has also been shown that the Japanese were demanding very much more than a guarantee of the emperor’s safety, for example a guarantee of no Allied occupation of Japan, before they would consider serious negotiations.)

    Also thanks to the work of Japanese historians, we now know much more about Japanese plans in the summer of 1945. Japan had no intention of surrendering. It had husbanded over 8,000 aircraft, many of them Kamikazes, hundreds of explosive-packed suicide boats, and over two million well equipped regular soldiers, backed by a huge citizen’s militia. When the Americans landed, the Japanese intended to hit them with everything they had, to impose on them casualties that might break their will. If this did not do it, then the remnants of the army and the militias would fight on as guerrillas, protected by the mountains and by the civilian population.

    Japanese and American historians have also shown that at the centre of the military system was the Emperor Hirohito, not the hapless prisoner of militarist generals, the version promulgated by MacArthur in 1945 to save him from a war crimes trial, but an all-powerful warlord, who had guided Japan’s aggressive expansion at every turn. Hirohito’s will had not been broken by defeats at land or sea, it had not been broken by the firestorms or by the effects of the blockade, and it would certainly not have been broken by the Soviet invasion of Manchuria, something the Japanese had anticipated for months.

    What broke Hirohito’s will was the terrible new weapon, a single bomb which could kill a hundred thousand at a time. Suddenly Japan was no longer fighting other men, but the very forces of the universe. The most important target the bombs hit was Hirohito’s mind - it shocked him into acknowledging that he could not win the final, climatic battle.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/...

    Its an interesting read on this topic if your interested?
    (more)
  • Dan ☮ R... Q 2011/12/07 22:59:56 (edited)
    Dan ☮ R P ☮ 2012 ☮
    +2
    From my sources:
    "...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

    - Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63

    "Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."

    Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71. "

    On May 28, 1945, Hoover visited President Truman and suggested a way to end the Pacific war quickly: "I am convinced that if you, as President, will make a shortwave broadcast to the people of Japan - tell them they can have their Emperor if they surrender, that it will not mean unconditional surrender except for the militarists - you'll get a peace in Japan - you'll have...







    From my sources:
    "...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

    - Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63

    "Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."

    Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71. "

    On May 28, 1945, Hoover visited President Truman and suggested a way to end the Pacific war quickly: "I am convinced that if you, as President, will make a shortwave broadcast to the people of Japan - tell them they can have their Emperor if they surrender, that it will not mean unconditional surrender except for the militarists - you'll get a peace in Japan - you'll have both wars over."

    Richard Norton Smith, An Uncommon Man: The Triumph of Herbert Hoover, pg. 347.

    "It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.

    "The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."

    - William Leahy, I Was There, pg. 441.
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