If we believe Saints are in heaven,why do some Christians think it's wrong to pray to them?

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If we believe Saints are in heaven,why do some Christians think it's wrong to pray to them?

by Sister Jean Posted November 04, 2009 20:42:41

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Prayer is talking to those in heaven......Adoration is solely for theTrinity

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+2 raves Gun665 November 04, 2009 22:21:17

Answered: true
The way I look at it, you're just asking for help. The only thing I can think is maybe those folks think you're putting the Saints before God.
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tooner259 November 06, 2009 16:16:00

Answered: true
Because they were elevated to that rank by people.
+1 raves
reconciliation November 05, 2009 17:41:23 (edited)

Answered: false
first of all the bible does not teach that we are going to heaven, it tell us that there will be a new heaven and a new new EARTH. No one is in heaven but Jesus who is sitted at the right hand of the Father, in the resurrection of the dead, people will either be raised to eternal life or eternal damnation which is the second death for those who don't believe. In the next world there will be no death, no crying, no pain for the former things will have passed away.
+1 raves
Joel November 05, 2009 15:46:37

Answered: false
ive heard that some ppl think its wrong because the bible doesnt say anything about saints.. but idk, i havent read the bible myself..
arthur November 05, 2009 12:22:30 (edited)

Answered: false
I wanted a board that I kind of needed for this floor. I got it. I wanted a pair of sandles like the ones that I had for five years, I got them. I wanted a job to help out with the rent and so forth, I got it. I've gotten everything that I need and some things that I don't need, and I didn't pray to any one but GOD THE FATHER only. It's really symple, pray to GOD THE FATHER only in Jesus' name and go from there. Because praying to anyone or anything is putting that person or group first. Think about it before you answer. Because alot of questions that I've asked, I got a different answer than I thought I would, and I have to live with that answer, no matter how much I have tried to justify MY ANSWER, MY WORDS, MY ACTIONS, ect. Me, myself and I are some times wrong, and WE have to eccept the answers and actions of things. Think about father Abraham how he was told that his son would be a great nation, and then told that he had to kill him. How would you feel if you were in that situation? And one more thing, what I believe is not importand, it's what can be proven. For facts out weigh belief. And God can be proven, but belief, that can't be.
awomanoccupyingtheplanet November 05, 2009 05:06:10 (edited)

Answered: false
God is not a trinity anyway. Study scripture. also , in Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments ( learn the original commands )

No prophets or churches or religions or men are God. Probably a great idea to pray only to God himself.
Pete November 05, 2009 02:13:03

Answered: true
Christian do not pray for dead Saint, idol or our love one who have already parted. Why? Because they are gone and have finish the run. They are now resting from their labor. In Hebrews 12: 1 it tell use this " There we also , since we are surrounded by so great a Cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us"
This above scripture I have just mention does not tell us to ask the cloud of witness to pray for us. Most biblical scholars agree that the term "cloud of witnesses" is an analogy that the Hebrew writer took from the Olympic Games. Some translate this term as "those in the grandstand." The picture the writer gives is of those who have finished running their race are now in the grandstand, and we know that those in the grandstand cannot run the race for us. Those that are alive are the ones running the race. Those who have died in the Lord have "ceased from their labor." They have already "finished the race." (see Rev 14:13 and 2 Tim 4:7)

To ask the great Christians in the past to pray for us is to get them back into the race again. But they have already run their race. They are resting from their labor. Why get them to work again?

B...

Christian do not pray for dead Saint, idol or our love one who have already parted. Why? Because they are gone and have finish the run. They are now resting from their labor. In Hebrews 12: 1 it tell use this " There we also , since we are surrounded by so great a Cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us"
This above scripture I have just mention does not tell us to ask the cloud of witness to pray for us. Most biblical scholars agree that the term "cloud of witnesses" is an analogy that the Hebrew writer took from the Olympic Games. Some translate this term as "those in the grandstand." The picture the writer gives is of those who have finished running their race are now in the grandstand, and we know that those in the grandstand cannot run the race for us. Those that are alive are the ones running the race. Those who have died in the Lord have "ceased from their labor." They have already "finished the race." (see Rev 14:13 and 2 Tim 4:7)

To ask the great Christians in the past to pray for us is to get them back into the race again. But they have already run their race. They are resting from their labor. Why get them to work again?

Besides, Jesus told us clearly who can pray with us. He said in Matthew 18:19, "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven." Notice the important clause "on earth." The people who pray together must be "on earth." This definitely rules out those who have left this earth.

When Jesus taught the disciples to pray, He never encourages the disciples to ask Abraham or Moses or Noah to pray for them. Asking the deceased to pray for us is unheard of in the Bible, and contradicts the teaching of the Bible.
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Iszie November 05, 2009 01:22:00

Answered: false
shalom! the holy scriptures say's that no man has ascended to heaven but he that descended from heaven!
john 3:13 . the people that die in yeshua are in paradise! Abraham's Bosom!
+1 raves
reconci... to Iszie November 05, 2009 17:53:50

shalom! Yeshua, is the only one that descended from heaven to bring the message of God the Father to the world that we should believe on him whom God had sent.
Captain Sticky November 05, 2009 00:58:55

Answered: true
Let me explain a possible parallel in what I as a Pagan do. I realize that there is no god but God and I ask God for an occasional favor. I also ask my ancestors to put in a good word for me.
+1 raves
Sister ... to Captain... November 05, 2009 01:02:39

why answer a poll like this
Captain... to Sister ... November 05, 2009 14:55:24

But you answered your own question! I thought you might just be looking for comments.
+1 raves
Incensed November 05, 2009 00:34:41

Answered: false
I'm not exactly sure how to answer this poll. I personally believe that, if Jesus died on the cross for my sins, so that I can petition God the Father, why would I want to go through someone else, when I can go straight to the source.
+1 raves
1regmom to Incensed November 05, 2009 14:44:34

Amen
+1 raves
Lil♥Angel♥Kisses November 04, 2009 23:59:07

Answered: false
I think it probably boiils down to differences in beliefs... Some churches believe that you only pray to God the Father or the trinity... I think it is all in what you believe.
SirClownfear November 04, 2009 23:23:33

Answered: false
Prayer is communion with God. A heavenly being (angels, saints, Mother Mary) are not diety so don't deserve our prayers and they don't have the purpose to be conduits of prayer to the Father. We get to talk to Him directly.
+1 raves
Compassionate Christian November 04, 2009 23:07:20

Answered: true
The Communion of Saints Rocks! Thanks for asking good sister.
Sister ... to Compass... November 04, 2009 23:08:48
+2 raves
Gun665 November 04, 2009 22:21:17

Answered: true
The way I look at it, you're just asking for help. The only thing I can think is maybe those folks think you're putting the Saints before God.
sasquat... to Gun665 November 05, 2009 00:05:18

Agreed. False dichotomy, really. To be consistent - if it's wrong to ask saints to pray for you, it's also wrong to ask family / friends / church to pray for you.
+1 raves
Sister ... to sasquat... November 05, 2009 00:07:04 (edited)

according to whom ????? Communion of Saints
sasquat... to Sister ... November 05, 2009 00:15:44

Well, the point of praying to saints is to ask for intercession, is it not? Same concept (overall) as asking family / friends / church to pray for you.

All I was saying is that it's inconsistent to say that somehow it's okay to ask living people to pray for you but it's not okay to ask dead people to pray for you.

Do you disagree?
+1 raves
Sister ... to sasquat... November 05, 2009 00:16:49

I ask all to pray more prayers the better
+1 raves
sasquat... to Sister ... November 05, 2009 00:20:27

Sounds like a plan!
Iamfree November 04, 2009 21:59:54

Answered: false
I don't believe the Bible gives any authority to pray to anyone except God. My uncle is in heaven too, but I don't pray to him.
+2 raves
Nicky November 04, 2009 21:01:25

Answered: true
Some have the belief that if you need something, you ask God directly. They believe that if you ask someone else, it's treating that person like God, which would go against the first commandment. Personally, I don't see things quite that way. Why bother with God with the small things if he has empowered the saints to help? It's like going to a brother or sister rather than bothering your parents with things. imho. Also, I still talk to my parents and other deceased family members when I'm trying to work something out. I don't say they're saints, but that kind of one-sided conversation helps me sort things out. And prayer is talking to someone, isn't it?
+2 raves
Sister ... to Nicky November 04, 2009 21:06:35
Iamfree to Nicky November 04, 2009 22:01:00

Could you please tell me where in the Bible it says that God has "empowered the saints to help"?
Nicky to Iamfree November 04, 2009 22:16:51

I didn't say it does. IF you believe in saints in the first place, you believe that. If you don't believe in them, you don't believe that.

Where does it say your brothers or sisters are empowered to help you? Where does it say that various religious ministers are empowered to do anything? I'm just saying I don't see talking to people in heaven as a problem. It's no different to talking to those who are still alive. My faith doesn't take everything in the bible literally. If you don't believe in saints, by all means, don't pray to them.

My assumption of them being empowered is miracles performed as a result of asking a saint for help. That's how they're named saints in the first place. There's nothing in the bible about creating saints, anyway. If you don't believe in miracles, that's your perogative.

You obviously don't belong to a religious sect that beleives in that sort of thing. That's fine with me. I'm not here to argue religion. I don't pray to them with any expectation of a miracle in the first place... it's a conversation, if you read what I wrote above.
+1 raves
Iamfree to Nicky November 04, 2009 22:42:21

Hey, I'm not attacking you or anything. But you made a statement about saints being empowered to help, and I wondered where you believe the authority for that belief comes from. If it's a Catholic thing, you only need to say so. Perhaps it is in Catholic writings or somewhere?

Protestants and Catholics see "saints" in different ways. Protestants use the term "saints" (small s) to mean all believers. Catholics, if I understand it correctly, have specific "Saints" who are humans that have been "sainted" by the church for specific deeds or miracles they have performed, correct? Protestants use the Bible as their sole source of divine authority, and nothing in it indicates that prayer to anyone but God is permitted. I was just wondering why you believe praying to Saints is permitted.

No offense. I just wanted to understand.
+1 raves
Nicky to Iamfree November 04, 2009 22:51:48

I'm Anglican. We are very similar to Catholics. I don't look at it quite the same way Catholics do, either. Sorry, I've been savaged before by Evangelicals. Perhaps I misstated saying 'empowered'. I think, according to the Catholic church, they are empowered. I'm not certain of the Catholic traditions. I think the writings of St. Augustine is where the various traditions about saints come from. And I believe you are correct in your understanding about people being 'sainted' by the church.

I see it as rather a chat. Just as I said, I talk with my parents, who are dead, to rather sort things out in my own mind. I don't bother God with things that I can sort out one way or another. I don't give Godly powers to anyone but God.
+1 raves
Sister ... to Nicky November 04, 2009 22:53:41

I believe the same Nicky
+1 raves
Iamfree to Nicky November 04, 2009 22:55:05

Okay, now I understand. Thanks for clarifying.
+2 raves
Nicky to Iamfree November 04, 2009 22:56:09

Sorry I went off... I don't like getting into religious arguments, but as I said, I've been savaged in the past.
+1 raves
Iamfree to Nicky November 04, 2009 22:58:00

It's okay. I've been clobbered many times too. No worries. Cheers.
+1 raves
Sister ... to Nicky November 04, 2009 22:58:54

love you Nicky
Pete to Iamfree November 05, 2009 02:17:01 (edited)

No such thing and it unheard off. There is nothing in the Bible that say we should pray for the Saint...It is worthless and has no power what so ever. Pray with one another while you are alive and not when you are dead. You are right there is not such thing.............Peace be with you.....
SirClow... to Nicky November 04, 2009 23:25:44

I think it's cool to talk to those that have passed on, but there is nothing in the Bible (assuming that's what you follow) that says that they or saints are "empowered... to help". That is what the Holy Spirit is for (and the Bible does say that).
๑۩۩..ßεℓℓεchεvεℓℓε®..۩۩๑Wra... November 04, 2009 20:46:07

Answered: true
I'm not Catholic, but I've prayed to my grandpappy and grandma during difficult times concerning my parents. I caught grief for that. But it worked.
+1 raves
Sister ... to ๑۩۩..ßε... November 04, 2009 20:59:14

I pray to my dear parents daily