Apr 01, 2008 04:24AM GMT
Question
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Politics - United States
If McCain was a member of a White Supremacist racist organization for 20 years, would he have any chance as President? If not, then why should Obama get a pass for belonging to a blatantly Black Racist group for 20 years?
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raves posted Jun 05, 2008 11:24AM GMT
Answered Undecided
I dont think you can compare the two things. Not that I am excusing the behavior of Jeremiah Wright. White supremacists go out and burn crosses and hurt people. White supremacists have paranoid delusions about what black people are doing to America. Any kind of religious zealot bothers me, black or white. The fact of the matter is black people have endured years of bullshit and if they are a little pissed off so what. Again not exucusing Wright, because clearly he is a nut. Anyway as far as Obama attending church there for years has more to do with politics than religion. That church is a powerful black church in Chicago. Who do you think helped to elect him in IL? ALL politicians pander to their voting base. I just don't think Obama thought it would eventually bite him in the ass. -
raves posted Jun 05, 2008 04:23AM GMT
Answered No
This poll sucks, and not for the reason you might think. It sucks because it's very poorly phrased. You're asking 2 different questions there at the top, and the 2nd question isn't a Y or N question.
Ok, other than that, you bring up a good point, which I've considered since this whole Rev. Wright crap came into the news. It really REALLY offends me that people are just brushing off Obama's church affiliation as a non-issue. It is a HUGE issue. We're not talking about a casual acquaintance here, we're talking about a 20 year intimate, spiritual relationship with a kook who thinks the US govt is responsible for AIDS in the black community and the 9/11 attack. UNACCEPTABLE. Period.
I hope everyone remembers this when they step into a polling booth in November. -
raves posted May 17, 2008 01:57AM GMT
Answered Undecided
I am undecided but I think the White Supremacist act on their philosophy and have been committing horrid crimes against people based on their doctrine. Wright's church on the other hand did nothing to harm anyone, they just promote animosity towards white people. I would venture that McCain has people in his life that are just as vocal about black people just a little quieter about it! -
raves +1 -3 posted Apr 06, 2008 08:57AM GMT
Answered No
It wouldn't of surfaced for McCain or Hilary in the first place. No one had anything else on Obama, they tried with the "Star Spangled Banner"/"American Pledge" but failed; however, pulled his church up because that's just about all those that were against him had to use. I'm skeptic on all the politicians, though I wonder when did religion and state have any relevance to one another? Why enter into this dude's life and not focus on the key points that threaten our existence like war, economy, recession, the global ecosystem issues, and social issues as well? Why are we paying more attention to Wright's speech than the dumbing down and violent growth of our children in schools? -
raves +3 -2 posted Apr 02, 2008 06:16PM GMT
Answered Yes
It was the presidents, who allowed slavery in the past... so for a long period of time, there would have been nothing wrong with that in the eyes of the Government.
When it comes to Obama's church...
To say it is "blatantly black racist" means the creator of this poll... by the looks of it... has been easily swayed by right-wing extremist media, and should learn to not practice exempt prior to investigation -
raves +4 Apr 02, 2008 11:08PM GMTThe creator of this poll hasn't been swayed by right wing extremist media! YOU investigate! How can you read the actual agenda of the United Trinity Church and NOT see their views as racist? Your explanations and defenses posted below can't defend this radical anti-white agenda!
If a white church said: 'We are unashamedly WHITE and committed to the WHITE community, committed to the WHITE family, adherence to the WHITE work ethic, Pledged to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the WHITE Community, Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting WHITE Institutions, Pledge allegiance to all WHITE leadership who espouse and embrace the WHITE Value System;
Personal commitment to embracement of the WHITE Value System'
as the United Trinity Church has - anyone in their right mind would say that is racist!
Those quotes are from the mission statement of UTC; they are not just a few sermons that Obama may have missed out on. They pledge allegiance to Africa, not America and Jeremiah Wright stated that the
U. S. Government was injecting blacks with the AIDS virus to eliminate the black man in America! Those are just a few of the outlandish and inflammatory statements made on a regular basis at thi...The creator of this poll hasn't been swayed by right wing extremist media! YOU investigate! How can you read the actual agenda of the United Trinity Church and NOT see their views as racist? Your explanations and defenses posted below can't defend this radical anti-white agenda!
If a white church said: 'We are unashamedly WHITE and committed to the WHITE community, committed to the WHITE family, adherence to the WHITE work ethic, Pledged to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the WHITE Community, Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting WHITE Institutions, Pledge allegiance to all WHITE leadership who espouse and embrace the WHITE Value System;
Personal commitment to embracement of the WHITE Value System'
as the United Trinity Church has - anyone in their right mind would say that is racist!
Those quotes are from the mission statement of UTC; they are not just a few sermons that Obama may have missed out on. They pledge allegiance to Africa, not America and Jeremiah Wright stated that the
U. S. Government was injecting blacks with the AIDS virus to eliminate the black man in America! Those are just a few of the outlandish and inflammatory statements made on a regular basis at this church, not just a few 'sound bites' taken out of context!
You are spinning on this because you support Obama and like the media you want to play this down, but it calls into play the judgement of a person who would stay in a church with this agenda. If I had a preacher who preached these kind of sermons and approved of this kind of agenda, I would RUN, not walk, away from that group! I won't attend a church that have beliefs contrary to my own and most honest people know that to be true about anyone.
As in your examples below, if I attended a church where a minister preached against blacks or gays or jews and said that they were trying to annihilate us I wouldn't just sit there and listen to it- I would get up and leave and then inform the church counsel that we need to get a different minister! It is the people who have the say over what is being preached in their church and if they disapprove of a pastors teachings they can simply vote him out! By not doing so they are giving their approval and sanctioning his actions!(less) -
raves Apr 06, 2008 09:01AM GMTSuperior? How?
It's not that white people are the superior race, because that's not even true and you know this. The ones who are rich and powerful that control the world and nations of what the people are experienced to, rule the world...the majority of the other whites are in the rat race trying to survive. -
raves +3 -2 posted Apr 02, 2008 02:53PM GMT
Answered Undecided
I view this as an attempted ‘apples to oranges’ comparison. Let’s face it, Obama is nothing if not a politician! He would have headed for the hills, if there had been nothing but a racist diatribe coming from the pulpit of his church. His desire for political self-preservation would have necessitated it.
Now, you say, how does that make this apples to oranges? Well, I’ll tell you. This poll is about what Obama’s ears HEARD! It’s not about something he said. Contrast that to recent events involving McCain and Clinton.
McCain: On a recent class field trip to Iraq McCain accused Iran of supporting “Al Qaeda in Iraq” (instead of the Shia.) At each press conference (there were several instances of this) one of his companions (often a Democrat) had to correct McCain’s misunderstanding of the violent civil war in Iraq. The man LIED or at best MISSPOKE.
Clinton: On December 29, 2007, February 29, 2008, and March 17, 2008 Hillary claimed to have run through gunfire at an airport in Bosnia. She LIED. She and her daughter were greeted by a little girl who gave her flowers and told her a poem. The people of Bosnia are outraged by Clinto’s slanderous and inaccurate portrayal of that event. Several protests have already occurred over there because of her LIES...I view this as an attempted ‘apples to oranges’ comparison. Let’s face it, Obama is nothing if not a politician! He would have headed for the hills, if there had been nothing but a racist diatribe coming from the pulpit of his church. His desire for political self-preservation would have necessitated it.
Now, you say, how does that make this apples to oranges? Well, I’ll tell you. This poll is about what Obama’s ears HEARD! It’s not about something he said. Contrast that to recent events involving McCain and Clinton.
McCain: On a recent class field trip to Iraq McCain accused Iran of supporting “Al Qaeda in Iraq” (instead of the Shia.) At each press conference (there were several instances of this) one of his companions (often a Democrat) had to correct McCain’s misunderstanding of the violent civil war in Iraq. The man LIED or at best MISSPOKE.
Clinton: On December 29, 2007, February 29, 2008, and March 17, 2008 Hillary claimed to have run through gunfire at an airport in Bosnia. She LIED. She and her daughter were greeted by a little girl who gave her flowers and told her a poem. The people of Bosnia are outraged by Clinto’s slanderous and inaccurate portrayal of that event. Several protests have already occurred over there because of her LIES.
Contrast both of those sets of circumstances:
Obama HEARD his pastor say some things which were inflammatory and downright insulting. He HEARD those words, mind you, he did not utter them.
If you wish to trash Obama for what he HEARD the by all means why not trash McCain and Clinton for the LIES they’ve SAID?☼(less) -
raves +5 -3 Apr 02, 2008 06:25PM GMT (edited)What gets me... is that after 36 years of service to the United Trinity Church... people dug deep to find 30 seconds of objectionable material.
THEN say that Obama sat and listened to this "week after week". If that really was the case... they would not have had to go back to 2003 and 2001 to find this "objectionable material" that was taken way out of context.
I for one, would not take a 30sec. soundbyte of... let's say an Native American's speech to his own people... and claim to know exactly what the intentions of a 45min. dialog were, by looking for the worst possible thing to quote. Mainly because I don't know the Native American's culture!
It's pretty ignorant, if you ask me to expect people from every background, culture, race, and even gender (hello!) to act and think alike. There is a "communication gap", and I think people fail to realize that functioning together as a whole, does not mean getting every culture/race/gender to think exactly alike.
Heritage is something to embrace... not sacrifice in order to "fit in" -
raves -1 Apr 03, 2008 12:11AM GMT"...The wretched have no compassion, they can do good only from strong principles of duty..." — Samuel Johnson
You are welcome. I think it ridiculous that these individuals focus on thirty seconds of trash talk from Wright as if it (and he) really mattered to anyone in the grand scheme of things.
That's even more true when I admit (as much as I hate to) that I myself have said far worse things about the USA for much longer than thirty seconds at a clip. It happens all the time, most people aren't this stupid and don't make such a "patriotic" fuss about it.☼ -
raves +1 -2 Apr 03, 2008 12:43AM GMTthanks, as a protestor from the late 60's to the mid 70's I have said and done a few things myself. But I see even that was twisted by the media. We protested in Chicago. It was centered around the drafted 'kids' that went to War who were not old enought to: Vote, drink or get married without Mom and Dad to consent. The media then took the actions a few and twisted the whole thing into we hated the returning vets. So, I am used to twists and turns and also expect it. 30 sec sound bites work well for the narrow minded uninformed people who are herded into polling places by fear tactics. Take Care :)
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raves +1 -1 Apr 03, 2008 02:01AM GMTThanks, Molly, you take care too. I hope I'll see you around here more often.
We need to help some of these individuals become of the world that exists outside of the Lawrence Welk (or its contemporary clone) show. The world passed these people by so long ago they should be in the National Register of Historic ButtHeads.☼ -
raves +2 Apr 02, 2008 11:38PM GMTThis post and your 'apples to oranges' does NOT apply here.
You are the one using a totally different subject. We aren't talking about what Obama or McCain or Clinton SAID; we are talking about how the public would view McCain if he attended a WHITE church that espoused the obvious racist platform that the UTC does.
As I stated in a previous post, it isn't just that Obama HEARD (caps used only for emphasis) what the preacher said, but that he ascribed to the mission statement of the church by attending it for 20 years, by being married by this preacher and even by having his 2 children baptized in this church! You don't have family members baptized in a church whose dogma you disagree with.
There are white churches that are crazy and radical and do outlandish things and try to align themselves with mainline Christian churches, like the 'so called' Baptist church that protests at funerals, etc. They are not following fundamentalist Christian teachings and no way would an actual true Christian align themselves with those who do such things. This is America and people have the right to believe what they want and it really doesn't matter to me if there are churches that are teaching hate and division, I don't like it or think it is right, but it is their right to do so. ...This post and your 'apples to oranges' does NOT apply here.
You are the one using a totally different subject. We aren't talking about what Obama or McCain or Clinton SAID; we are talking about how the public would view McCain if he attended a WHITE church that espoused the obvious racist platform that the UTC does.
As I stated in a previous post, it isn't just that Obama HEARD (caps used only for emphasis) what the preacher said, but that he ascribed to the mission statement of the church by attending it for 20 years, by being married by this preacher and even by having his 2 children baptized in this church! You don't have family members baptized in a church whose dogma you disagree with.
There are white churches that are crazy and radical and do outlandish things and try to align themselves with mainline Christian churches, like the 'so called' Baptist church that protests at funerals, etc. They are not following fundamentalist Christian teachings and no way would an actual true Christian align themselves with those who do such things. This is America and people have the right to believe what they want and it really doesn't matter to me if there are churches that are teaching hate and division, I don't like it or think it is right, but it is their right to do so. However, when a man who is asking to be elected as my President, and Commander in Chief of the armed forces and to be placed in the most powerful position in the world- you had better believe that I am interested in what his judgment, beliefs and positions are in regard to race and loyalty to our nation!(less) -
raves -1
Answered No
If it were John McCain or Hillary Clinton attending churches that were racist, they would be ousted out of the campaign right away, no buts about it. If they were members of a white church that said, God dam black people, even the majority of the white people would be appalled. .