Aug 28, 2008 04:34PM GMT
Question
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Sports - Baseball
Fan Ejected From Yankee Stadium for trying to use the bathroom during "God Bless America". What do you think?
NYPD Defends Ejecting Sox Fan from Yankee Stadium During "God Bless America"The NYCLU seems inclined to follow through with last year's promise to sue the Yankees over their policy of confining fans to their seats during the national anthem and "God Bless America," which is played during the seventh inning stretch. Yesterday Red Sox fan Bradford Campeau-Laurion, a Queens resident, told us about his rough ejection from Yankee stadium at the hands of the NYPD after he tried to go to the men's room during the seventh inning's moment of mandatory nationalism Monday night.
Donna Lieberman, Executive Director of the NYCLU, tells CBS 2 that "because they are enforcing a rule of that imposes political correctness through refusing to let somebody go to bathroom while a patriotic song is playing, that violates Constitutional rights." But Michael C. Dorf, a constitutional law professor at Columbia Law School, disagrees; he told the Times last year that “it doesn’t violate the Constitution, because the Yankees are not the government. If they were a municipally owned team, you could have an issue because the team would be a state actor.
Here’s a Quote from the fan:
I attempted to get up to use the restroom, rather urgently, during the 7th inning stretch as God Bless America was beginning. As I attempted to walk down the aisle and exit my section into the tunnel, I was stopped by a police officer. He informed me that I had to wait until the song was over. I responded that I had to use the restroom and that I did not care about God Bless America.
As soon as the latter came out of my mouth, my right arm was twisted violently behind my back and I was informed that I was being escorted out of the stadium. A second officer then joined in and twisted my left arm, also in an excessively forceful manner, behind my back. I informed them they were violating my First Amendment rights and that I had done nothing wrong, with no response from them.
I was sitting in the Tier Level, and of course this is the highest level of the stadium and I was escorted in this painful manner down the entire length of the stadium. About halfway down, I informed them that they were hurting me, repeated that I had done nothing wrong, and that I was not resisting nor talking back to them. One of them said something to the effect that if I continued to speak, he would find a way to hurt me more.
When we reached the exit of the stadium, they confiscated my ticket and the first officer shoved me through the turnstiles, saying "Get the hell out of my country if you don't like it."
Nowhere on the Yankee Stadium ticket policy nor on any posted sign does it say that forced patriotism is a required element to attend a baseball game. Nowhere in the laws of this country would that begin to be defensible.
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So what do you think? Were the Yankees right? Was the fan?
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raves posted Sep 11, 2008 11:30PM GMT
Answered The Yankees were right. He could have held it in.
To begin with, I don't think any of us, other than New Yorkers or people in DC, can truly understand what they have went through and how patriotic they now are. This should be respected. They love this country and want the national anthym respected. Actually, this is as it should be.
If it is a known rule and he did it just to buck the system (which is more than likely what was going on) then he deserved what he got.
Or maybe there is an additional reason for the rule? Maybe its a rule there so that the police and security can honor their country and can take a short break. Maybe keeping people still during that is for safety purposes.
Either way, honor the rules. If you don't like the rules of any place, in this country, you are still free to stay home! -
raves posted Sep 09, 2008 08:59PM GMT
Answered The Yankees were right. He could have held it in.
Our brave men and woman Throughout this countries history gave their lives so we could have the freedom to hear that wonderful song of freedom.
Considering what they went through that fan could have held it in for 2 small mins!!!!!! -
raves posted Sep 08, 2008 01:35AM GMT
Answered The Yankees were wrong. They have no respect for rights.
well when you gotta go you gotta go!!!
isn't one of your amendment rights freedom of speech? he should not have been treated so badly for saying that he didn't care about the song!!!
on the other hand if this is a well-known rule imposed on the stadium then people should be aware of it and go earlier. but what if someone is sick or something?! -
raves posted Sep 07, 2008 08:16PM GMT (edited)
Answered The Yankees were wrong. They have no respect for rights.
Wow just wow, everyday you start to wonder what country we're living in today, what shocks me even more is that a sports arena has implemented these fascist type policies to begin with. The irony of it all, is that part of the lyrics are "Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free" but don't you dare pee ;-D -
raves posted Sep 03, 2008 10:24PM GMT
Answered The Yankees were wrong. They have no respect for rights.
if i goy to go i'm going and if some prick ever tried stopping me i'd piss on them, i love america but i'll be damn if some cop is going to stop me from taken a leak, screw the yankees and screw those cops,and if they dont like it look me up. -
raves +1 posted Sep 03, 2008 09:52PM GMT
Answered The Yankees were wrong. They have no respect for rights.
It's not like he was trying to make a political statement- the guy had to pee.
God Bless America isn't the National Anthem. What if the Yankees decide that you must stand on one foot and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" or you're unAmerican - it's nuts. -
raves +2 posted Sep 03, 2008 07:53PM GMT
Answered The Yankees were right. He could have held it in.
The Yankees were correct. It's their stadium, they can make up whatever rules they want in that vicinity or do they have the right to make them leave. I don't know about the cops and their actions, but the Yankees can create rules on property they own. Could you go pee whenever you wanted at school? No. -
raves +1 posted Sep 03, 2008 07:04PM GMT
Answered Undecided
I know it sound a bit harsh to say what came first to my mind, but it reminds me of the time in Germany when you were arrested for not showing the Hitler Gruss and saying Heil Hitler... Definitely not good and a bit too much patriotism. I know I'm gonna get some hatemail for saying this, but that's what I think. -
raves Sep 03, 2008 07:10PM GMTHaha, tell me Little Screamer, how does this case even remotely relate to Nazi Germany?
The Yankees, a business, refused service to a customer for violating one of their rules, as was legal, moral, and ethical.
The Yankees are not part of any government. They comprise a business, and they can impose whatever rules they want (subject to certain restrictions). They have not violated anyone's constitutional rights. -
raves +1 Sep 03, 2008 07:23PM GMT (edited)Just like I said. In Nazi Germany you were arrested for not following the "rules". The fan didnt follow the rule not to go to the bathroom during God Bless America. How can a natural urge be forgotten just because a song is played? I dont refer to the Yankees, I didnt blame them at all, I was talking in general. I know the Yankees not part of any government, I just dont think any country or business should tell people to praise a country in a special way. Showing patriotism is a good thing, but I think there are certain boundaries. Why should someone not go the toilet when a song like God Bless America is played? It's not even the official Hymn.
I might have this attitude cause I grew up this way. (Yes, I AM German. Hate me, it's not my fault and I dont care. And even though I am, I do know a lot about politics and the world outside and am not a Nazi myself as people once claimed when I said I don't trust Scientology.) I was taught not to run around singing our hymn or saying my country was the best, cause this once caused so much pain and violence. This is different from the American attitude, I know this. But nevertheless, there are some ways of showing patriotism that I cant really understand and think it might become dangerous. (I could go on talking about all the wars "...Just like I said. In Nazi Germany you were arrested for not following the "rules". The fan didnt follow the rule not to go to the bathroom during God Bless America. How can a natural urge be forgotten just because a song is played? I dont refer to the Yankees, I didnt blame them at all, I was talking in general. I know the Yankees not part of any government, I just dont think any country or business should tell people to praise a country in a special way. Showing patriotism is a good thing, but I think there are certain boundaries. Why should someone not go the toilet when a song like God Bless America is played? It's not even the official Hymn.
I might have this attitude cause I grew up this way. (Yes, I AM German. Hate me, it's not my fault and I dont care. And even though I am, I do know a lot about politics and the world outside and am not a Nazi myself as people once claimed when I said I don't trust Scientology.) I was taught not to run around singing our hymn or saying my country was the best, cause this once caused so much pain and violence. This is different from the American attitude, I know this. But nevertheless, there are some ways of showing patriotism that I cant really understand and think it might become dangerous. (I could go on talking about all the wars "caused" by the US, but I don't think it's right here, but I'm really annoyed by always being told my country is the worst in the world while others are not much better. And by the way, I didnt start WW2, it was long before my parents were born and there parents suffered from the Nazis,too.)
Sorry for wandering from the topic, I just feel I have to defend my opinion.)
And I dont think this should be necessary, Sodahead is about opinions, so why are there so many people who dont accept other people's opinions?(less) -
raves Sep 03, 2008 07:40PM GMTYou don't think it should be necessary for you to defend your opinion?
And why not?
If you have an opinion, then I think you should have some justifiable basis for that opinion.
In this country, and in Germany, people have the right to disagree with the opinions of others. That's part of what makes us a free country. We have the freedom to show dissent.
I can disagree with you whenever I feel like it. But don't let it hurt your feelings.
Support your opinions , and don't whine about the fact that someone else disagrees with you.
I see where you're coming from. You don't think a business should have the freedom to make a customer wait while a song praising our country is being played. Well you have a lot of company. The ACLU feels the same way. (By the way. I have great respect for the ACLU. But I think they are wrong in this case.)
Like it or not, I disagree with you and the ACLU, and I will argue in support of my opinions whenever I feel like it.
Unlike you, the ACLU would agree with my contention that I have a RIGHT to point out the errors I see in your arguments. -
raves +2 Sep 03, 2008 08:02PM GMTThat happens when I want to say so much and cant find the right words...
Of course I have to justify my opinion. There you're right. What I meant was that it happens so many times here that people get nasty comments for their opinion. I wasn't referring to you in this case, I just wanted to say that if someone has another opinion, he can say it in a civilized way. Sorry, for the misunderstanding.
I respect you don't agree to my opinion, how could I not? I wouldn't be any better than those immature people with their hatemail. I hope you understand that I neither felt offended because of your comment nor did I want to offend you. Although my English is pretty good, it happens that I don't know how to say it good. But that happens in German, too. I have too much things on my mind and then I forget half of it... And I didnt whine that someone disagrees with me. (Again I was thinking of useless comments like "You're stupid".) Sorry if you got that impression.
I know that in the US people are free to disagree. But then there there are some people like the police officer. I wasnt talking about America in general. It also happens here, that some people are going off their fuse, like once when a mother wasn't allowed to enter a shop just because the shop assistend didn't wa...That happens when I want to say so much and cant find the right words...
Of course I have to justify my opinion. There you're right. What I meant was that it happens so many times here that people get nasty comments for their opinion. I wasn't referring to you in this case, I just wanted to say that if someone has another opinion, he can say it in a civilized way. Sorry, for the misunderstanding.
I respect you don't agree to my opinion, how could I not? I wouldn't be any better than those immature people with their hatemail. I hope you understand that I neither felt offended because of your comment nor did I want to offend you. Although my English is pretty good, it happens that I don't know how to say it good. But that happens in German, too. I have too much things on my mind and then I forget half of it... And I didnt whine that someone disagrees with me. (Again I was thinking of useless comments like "You're stupid".) Sorry if you got that impression.
I know that in the US people are free to disagree. But then there there are some people like the police officer. I wasnt talking about America in general. It also happens here, that some people are going off their fuse, like once when a mother wasn't allowed to enter a shop just because the shop assistend didn't want children in his shop. It happens everywhere, sometimes it's right, sometimes it isn't. We have to accept this. All I say is, that there are some attiditutes out there that are weird and also ominous. Who knows if that police officer might punch up someone just because he is of a different race? I don't wanna impute something, it's just that really bad things can start with a small incident.
"You don't think a business should have the freedom to make a customer wait while a song praising our country is being played."
This is a good argument. Of course they should have the freedom, but the reaction on a demand to leave for a toilet should be reasonable. The fan was thrown out of the stadium although he himself didn't show any act of violence. They could've done this in a calm way instead of grabbing his arm. Furthermore they said "Get the hell out of my country if you don't like it." So should everybody who needs to go to the toilet or doesn't stand up straight when the song is played leave the country? That's a bit overreacting. Like every business has the freedom to make a customer wait the customer also has the freedom to decide in which way he praises the country. If he wants to praise it on the toilet - have fun!(less) -
raves +1 posted Sep 03, 2008 03:26PM GMT
Answered The Yankees were wrong. They have no respect for rights.
Those police officers should be fired. Sadly, it is the public's fundamental unwillingness to pay for and educate the quality teachers needed to bring up truely well educated AMERICANs from the poorer neighborhoods where probably most of the NYCPD were raised.
The ruling elite sneers at the peons (including the COPs!), and keeps the edu system in a mess, and could care less about the chaos this creates as it ensures legitimising the ever growing gap between them and the sucker masses. The cops are just the stupid tools of the elite.
Those cops thought they were making America better, while not understanding how THEY were destroying it! If the money and resources wasted on commercialised "sports" were to be plowed into education... oh well, I'm dreaming. -
raves Sep 03, 2008 07:52PM GMTDo you think that the cops did this to the guy because he was a sawx fan?
However I don't see why the NYPD was even in the stadium as opposed to private security and stadium management. I live in the DC area now and have attended a few Nats games. Yes they have the DCMP officers at the park but mainly at the gates and in the streets directing traffic. I have never seen anyone stopped during the 7th inning stretch and yes they do GBA as well. The whole point of the stretch is to give people an extra minute or 2 to use the toilets of get some food and not miss the action.
No I am not a Nats fan except when they can beat the Phillys. Lets Go Mets -
raves +1 Sep 03, 2008 01:12PM GMT
Answered The Yankees were wrong. They have no respect for rights.
I think it is fine that the Yankees have their policies but what I am not okay with is the fact that it was NYPD that escorted the man from the stadium and made personal remarks instead of legal remarks to the man.If the Yankees are going to have policies like this, they need to have Yankee employees enforce them. The job of the officer is to uphold constitutional laws, not business establishment policy.
Obviously this officer doesn't know what a true patriot is. Sitting during a "God Bless America" doesn't make anybody a good citizen. Also, the officer made himself look like a fool by violating this man's constitutional rights during the song. The officer obviously didn't have a problem not waiting till after the song was over to his "duty" to boot the man out.