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Why fundamentalists should quit calling themselves Christians, and why from this day on I will.

Tea in the Harbor 2012/04/04 21:53:09
They're going to go to hell, every last one of them, and there isn't anything they can do about it. If they are fundies when they die, it's going to get toasty in their new home.

The reason is very simple, Christ's reason for coming to earth and making His sacrifice was to end the Age of Law that followed the rules of the Old Testament and usher in the Age of Grace. Fundamentalists do not believe in Grace. They do not forgive their fellow man his sins as Christ commands them to do, they claim His forgiveness, but it stops right there and does not extend to other people the way He said it would with those He knows.

I get so sick of what they've done to His teachings, both because their actions are a bitch slap to what He stood for and because their denial of His way is a stain on REAL CHRISTIANS, many of whom I know to be very good and moral people. REAL Christians love and forgive their neighbors as Christ Himself did, these loser fundies try to control everyone they are aware of.

What did Christ say about condemning other people, like gay people or women who make the always regrettable choice to abort a child? Christ said forgive and love them, fundamentalists say deny and damn them. Who are you going to trust?

From Matthew 6:15:


“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father

forgive your trespasses.”


Do fundies forgive? Never. So how can they claim any kinship with Christ? He says God will not forgive them, which means they are going to hell without doubt. The only alternative is that Jesus Christ lied.

And before you start telling me how I'm bashing Christians let me tell you this, I'm writing this for Christians, for REAL Christians, who are meek and try to see good in those who claim the Cross. They forgive the fundies even though God says He will not, how's that for living the Word?

I may not be of the faith anymore, but that doesn't mean I am blind to that world. There's an old Hymn we used to sing when I went to church, the words were "They will know we are Christians by our love." Can anyone say they see love in fundamentalists?

It simply isn't there. They have the love you find in abusive spouses, it's "I will love you IF."

Jesus of Nazareth came to bring an Age of Grace, of forgiveness. Anyone who does not show that grace and forgiveness is unworthy of the title "Christian," not because I say it's so, but because Christ does.

I cannot explain why I have this sudden drive to write about a religion I left decades ago, maybe it's because the Fundies ruined Christianity for me and I see them today doing the same thing to the world, but I'm going to write it and I don't care a whit who it offends. They offend one of the greatest teachers man has ever known and bastardize what He stood for. I may not think Him a God, but I will not suffer fools or demons (whichever fits your beliefs) who use Him to package their political goods.

So from now on I will be calling a Fundie a Fundie and not staining the image of a great teacher to me, and a Savior to so many. People who do not believe in and practice forgiveness are simply unworthy of anything more if you believe the words of Jesus.
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  • JHup BN-0 2012/04/06 19:49:42
    JHup BN-0
    +1
    The abusive spouse analogy is so true and very sobering. Great post!
  • ehrhornp 2012/04/06 18:26:27
    ehrhornp
    +1
    Not sure if they are going to hell, (I don't believe it exists), but they sure are hypocrites. When GW was president and mentioned something religious I always felt that if Jesus was around GW would be the first to send him to Gitmo. Very little has changed my view that republicans, for all their talk about faith, would generally be the first to crucify Jesus. I sure don't consider them christians. Many atheists are closer to God than these evil people. The family is the perfect example. They consider themselves chosen so they are above laws that govern everyone else. They are sickening.
  • Larissa Haig 2012/04/06 02:49:01
    Larissa Haig
    +2
    i totally agree with you
  • jackolantyrn356 2012/04/05 19:30:25 (edited)
    jackolantyrn356
    +1
    Perhaps you are right on this one. And as a good Christian I will stop calling you "BackSlider' : and leave it at Agnostic
  • SEAL76 2012/04/05 17:17:55
    SEAL76
    +3
    Right. The teachings of Jesus Christ do not mesh with many of the fundamentalist or mainstream churches. Forgiveness, charity, lack of wordly trappings and humility are just a few of the principals that have been abandoned by these jackasses.
  • Singerar 2012/04/05 17:17:24
    Singerar
    +1
    I know why you write about this. It's the truth. I feel the same way you do. Growing up in a "fundie" city you see hypocracy all around you and you can't do a thing about it without getting called out or questioned about your "Faith". I saw 50/50. You know the REAL ones and the hate filled ones. The reals ones are wonderful. The fundies are frightening.
    Thank you for the article.
  • PULLLLLLL! 2012/04/05 15:20:52
    PULLLLLLL!
    Actually according to the bible.. Jesus said...<< Matthew 5: I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.
    Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

    I can put no faith in a book That took centuries to write and centuries to rewrite, with dozens of interpretations and fairy tale stories of which make no sense...

    Just like this fallacy..Jesus of Nazareth came to bring an Age of Grace... There was no Nazareth during the life of this Jesus.. Nazareth didnt exist untill real late in the 1st century or early in the 2nd century...There is no evidence that it existed before that..So how could this Jesus be from Nazareth if he was Crucified before he was 40?????
  • ally 2012/04/05 15:16:27
    ally
    +3
    I used to smile at the Second Coming. Now, I can't wait for it. And I only ask for one thing-to be there when they get rejected because of their hate.

    Thanks, Tea, for reminding these evangelical hypocrites what Jesus actually taught, not what they bend his words to mean.
  • Brightsprite62 2012/04/05 15:00:29 (edited)
    Brightsprite62
    +1
    I will leave how makes Heaven there home in the Lords hands. I hold to the scripture "Judge not least ye be judged."

    edit: Who makes Heaven.
  • Mrs. Kathy Arch 2012/04/05 14:52:30
    Mrs. Kathy Arch
    ""You must realize, Huw", he said, speaking in his blindness, "that the men of the Valleys have built their houses and brought up their families without help from others, without a word from the Government. Their lives have been ordered by birth from the Bible. From it they took their instructions. They had no other guidance, and no other law. If it has produced hypocrites, and pharisees, the fault is in the human race. We are not all angels. Our fathers upheld good conduct and rightful dealing by strictness, but it is in Man Adam to be slippery, and many are as slimy as the adder."" - "How Green Was My Valley" - Richard Llewellyn
  • Mrs. Ka... Mrs. Ka... 2012/04/05 14:56:14
    Mrs. Kathy Arch
    +1
    Sorry, but your post reminded me of one of the characters (Mr. Gruffudd-the preacher) from the book. Fundamentalism is not new, and sadly, some would rather speak of the wrath of God, than the love of Jesus. Thank you for the post.
  • Cathy 2012/04/05 14:45:39
    Cathy
    Tea, I agree with you concerning forgiveness. Christians are suppose to forgive and love each others even our enemies. When Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins
    He said to God......"Father forgive them them because they know not what they do"! All of the pain and sufferings that He had to endure for His creation (mankind), He still loved us and forgave us! Being a Christian means to be "Christ like", and we are to follow in His footsteps with the help of the "Holy Spirit".

    Being a "True Christian" isn't easy and it will cost you something. Quoting Scriptures to another person doesn't make a person a Christian. What makes a Christian a "real christian, is by their lifestyle. The Word of God must become apart of them by faith in God's Word and they are to walk in obedience of what the Word says. In James 1:22 - 25 - it tells us (Christians) "To be ye doers of the Word of God, and not hearers only,
    deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the Word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: verse 24 - For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. Verse 25 -
    But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer...



    Tea, I agree with you concerning forgiveness. Christians are suppose to forgive and love each others even our enemies. When Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins
    He said to God......"Father forgive them them because they know not what they do"! All of the pain and sufferings that He had to endure for His creation (mankind), He still loved us and forgave us! Being a Christian means to be "Christ like", and we are to follow in His footsteps with the help of the "Holy Spirit".

    Being a "True Christian" isn't easy and it will cost you something. Quoting Scriptures to another person doesn't make a person a Christian. What makes a Christian a "real christian, is by their lifestyle. The Word of God must become apart of them by faith in God's Word and they are to walk in obedience of what the Word says. In James 1:22 - 25 - it tells us (Christians) "To be ye doers of the Word of God, and not hearers only,
    deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the Word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: verse 24 - For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. Verse 25 -
    But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deeds.

    The Living Bible puts it like this which is very plain....And remember, it is a message to obey, not just to listen to. So don't fool yourselves. For if a person just listens and doesn't obey, he is like a man looking at his face in a mirror, "as soon as he walks away, he can't see himself anymore or remember what he looks like". "But if anyone keeps looking steadily unto God's law for free men, he will not only remember it but he will do what it says, and God will greatly bless him in everything he does".

    Jesus Christ tells us to "come" just as we are", and He will clean us (all) up by the "regeneration" of our spirits (born again) by the "Word of God", Titus 3:1-8. The only "one" who can clean us up is Jesus Christ, nothing but the blood of Jesus Christ because He is our "Anointment"!!!
    (more)
  • Lonna121593 2012/04/05 14:38:20
    Lonna121593
    I dont believe the WBC people are Christiand but at the same time i try to do as the Lord teaches and forgive them for their hatefulness and bigotry. I cannot judge, The perfect Lord in Heaven is the only one who can.
  • Kane Fernau 2012/04/05 14:36:37
    Kane Fernau
    +1
    Democrats register him democrat
  • Beat Magnum True Hero 2012/04/05 14:18:10
    Beat Magnum True Hero
    "They're going to go to hell, every last one of them, and there isn't anything they can do about it." - Not your call.

    Don't judge, and don't return hate with hate. We're not called to judge because none of us are righteous.
  • CAPISCE 2012/04/05 13:34:21
    CAPISCE
    Again the Far Left exposes there absolute intolerance of others beliefs in these posts. Live and let live goes both ways
  • Singerar CAPISCE 2012/04/05 18:44:51
    Singerar
    +1
    And Again the far Right is blind.
    This is a persons opinion.
    Don't respond if you don't like his article.
    He's talking of an intolerance of ONE group of people who hate. I find the article very true in my experience as well.
    You don't have to be "far left" to know this is true.
  • CAPISCE Singerar 2012/04/09 21:48:09
    CAPISCE
    Don't respond? you proved my point the the Left is as intolerant as the Far Right
  • Peripatetic Iconoclast 2012/04/05 12:56:01
    Peripatetic Iconoclast
    +1
    Fundamentalists practice mendacity and hypocrisy.
  • CAPISCE Peripat... 2012/04/05 13:35:53
    CAPISCE
    That is totally intolerant and judgmental
  • Peripat... CAPISCE 2012/04/05 15:16:52
    Peripatetic Iconoclast
    +1
    Nope. It's totally true. I've experienced it. An alarming number of fundamentalists have been on the news with allegations against them regarding behaviors they preach against. Oh, they usually break-down and confess all the while sobbing about their sins. They are forgiven by their flock and then do it all over again. Mendacity and hypocrisy is their stock and trade.
  • CAPISCE Peripat... 2012/04/09 21:49:35
    CAPISCE
    True in your mind, that's cool,it's your opinion but others disagree who are as rational and intelligent as yourself---be tolerant of there opinions and beliefs
  • David 2012/04/05 12:21:11 (edited)
    David
    "I may not call him God ..."

    Jesus claimed to be God, to deny that you are calling him a liar!

    What kind of respect is that?

    So why the sanctimonious display?

    Clearly you are attempting to use religion as a means of attacking those with whom you disagree!
  • Chris- Demon of the PHAET 2012/04/05 11:39:33
    Chris- Demon of the PHAET
    +1
    I rarely weigh in on questions of religion anymore but I think you are missing one point. I have come to believe there is really only one basic truth when it comes to all religions. Much of what they teach is subjective. Religious belief is based on faith, not fact. I am not belittling faith. I am making the point that real faith tells the believer they are following God's will, but it also allows each sect to interpret that will differently. I have seen countless posts quoting one Biblical verse or another and invariably someone will reply with a different verse that contradicts the first. Occasionally the same verse is used as a rebuttal. I have learned that many people are absolutely sure they are following the teachings of God and there is nothing anyone can say that will change their minds. That is faith.
    The Westboro Baptist Church is a perfect example. Go read what is on their web site with a critical, dispassionate eye. They have set forth a series of arguments and use the Bible to support each and everything they say. Most Christians will point out the errors in their interpretations and say they are completely wrong, but I'm sure they could do the same.
    Who is to say any one religion is, in fact, the true reflection of God. Are the millions of Jews wrong in their i...



    I rarely weigh in on questions of religion anymore but I think you are missing one point. I have come to believe there is really only one basic truth when it comes to all religions. Much of what they teach is subjective. Religious belief is based on faith, not fact. I am not belittling faith. I am making the point that real faith tells the believer they are following God's will, but it also allows each sect to interpret that will differently. I have seen countless posts quoting one Biblical verse or another and invariably someone will reply with a different verse that contradicts the first. Occasionally the same verse is used as a rebuttal. I have learned that many people are absolutely sure they are following the teachings of God and there is nothing anyone can say that will change their minds. That is faith.
    The Westboro Baptist Church is a perfect example. Go read what is on their web site with a critical, dispassionate eye. They have set forth a series of arguments and use the Bible to support each and everything they say. Most Christians will point out the errors in their interpretations and say they are completely wrong, but I'm sure they could do the same.
    Who is to say any one religion is, in fact, the true reflection of God. Are the millions of Jews wrong in their interpretations of God? Or is it the Muslims who are mistaken? Maybe atheists, like myself, are correct and there is no God. That is what faith is all about.
    It is even more difficult when one uses religion in the political arena. How can anyone think laws based on religious beliefs will be accepted by those who do not share those beliefs? Abortion, gay marriage, etc...Am I expected to follow Christian law because you believe in God?
    I am not belittling anyone's religious beliefs. When it comes to religion, I do not believe I have the right to tell others what they believe is wrong since I cannot prove it with facts. The problem comes when others try to tell me how I should live based on their faith.
    Faith and facts are not the same thing.
    I agree with much of what you have written Tea, but the truth is you are writing for the Christianity you believe is the correct one. Many do not agree with you. Can anyone prove they are right?
    (more)
  • Flea 2012/04/05 09:58:15
    Flea
    +2
    What disturbs me is their justification of hate and violence in the name of God, e.g. the Westboro morons who picket military funerals with signs that say "God hates fags".

    People put too much stock in the actual words of the Bible. Christ Himself said " The LETTER of the law brings death while the SPIRIT of the law gives life."
  • David Flea 2012/04/05 12:50:00
    David
    "People put too much stock in the actual words of the Bible"

    So why quote it?

    Christ himself seem to regard the Bible's words extremely highly!

    "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law, until everything is accomplished." Matthew 5:18
  • Flea David 2012/04/06 01:26:00
    Flea
    I'm talking the words THEMSELVES- not the meaning behind the words. That's the difference of letter vs. spirit.
    Besides, If you read the whole chapter of Matthew you quoted from, at the very beginning Christ says " I'm not here to destroy the law, but fulfill it." Christ's crucifixion, death, resurrection, testimony, and acsension was that fulfillment.
  • David Flea 2012/04/06 14:41:58
    David
    What use are words without meaning or what meaning can there be without words?

    "Christ's crucifixtion, death, resurrection, testimony and ascension was the fulfilment"

    Of course in part this is true!

    For Christ was the promised Messiah of the Old Testament whose sacrficial death had been fore shadowed. In the New Testament that shadow becomes reality!

    Christ fulfils what has been prophesied about Him in the Old Testament!

    It is interesting to note some intricate detail of this fulfilment by looking at some specific texts.

    "Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, 'I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?"

    Jesus replied, 'Let it be so now, IT IS PROPER FOR US TO DO THIS TO FULFILL all righteousness' Then John consented." Matthew 3: 13-15

    Another example of fulfillment:-

    "Go to the village ahead of you and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with a colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me. If anyone says anything to you tell him that the Lord needs them and he will send them right away.

    THIS TOOK PLACE TO FULFILL WHAT WAS SPOKEN THROUGH THE PROPHET ..." Matthew 21: 2-4

    Having acknowleged, that Jesus did fulfill much that had been written about Him, He did not come to destroy or change the law!

    Christ make...





    What use are words without meaning or what meaning can there be without words?

    "Christ's crucifixtion, death, resurrection, testimony and ascension was the fulfilment"

    Of course in part this is true!

    For Christ was the promised Messiah of the Old Testament whose sacrficial death had been fore shadowed. In the New Testament that shadow becomes reality!

    Christ fulfils what has been prophesied about Him in the Old Testament!

    It is interesting to note some intricate detail of this fulfilment by looking at some specific texts.

    "Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, 'I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?"

    Jesus replied, 'Let it be so now, IT IS PROPER FOR US TO DO THIS TO FULFILL all righteousness' Then John consented." Matthew 3: 13-15

    Another example of fulfillment:-

    "Go to the village ahead of you and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with a colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me. If anyone says anything to you tell him that the Lord needs them and he will send them right away.

    THIS TOOK PLACE TO FULFILL WHAT WAS SPOKEN THROUGH THE PROPHET ..." Matthew 21: 2-4

    Having acknowleged, that Jesus did fulfill much that had been written about Him, He did not come to destroy or change the law!

    Christ makes it very plain "NOT UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH DISAPPEAR"!

    Has the earth disappeared?

    Nor has EVERYTHING yet been ACCOMPLISHED!

    Two obvious things which have yet to be fulfilled or accomplished is Christ's return and the destruction of the earth!
    (more)
  • Flea David 2012/04/07 00:56:51
    Flea
    Thoroughly read Revelation- the earth disappearing comes AFTER Jesus's 1000 year rein of peace.
  • David Flea 2012/04/07 10:44:03
    David
    What does the chronology of Revelations have to do with the fact Christ said that, "until heaven and earth disappear, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the LAW, until EVERYTHING is accomplished."?
  • CAPISCE Flea 2012/04/05 13:36:35
    CAPISCE
    Intolerance on your part
  • Flea CAPISCE 2012/04/06 01:27:00
  • Annie~Pro American~Pro Israel 2012/04/05 07:57:51
    Annie~Pro American~Pro Israel
    Tea, thought you were Atheist?
  • Tea in ... Annie~P... 2012/04/05 10:49:49
    Tea in the Harbor
    +2
    I am, but what the fundies are doing affects me as much as it does anyone.
  • Annie~P... Tea in ... 2012/04/05 10:57:01
    Annie~Pro American~Pro Israel
    +1
    Oh, Ok. I was just confused on the fundi part.
  • CAPISCE Tea in ... 2012/04/05 13:39:34
    CAPISCE
    Tea, were you dead at one time? That's the only way anyone can be sure there is or is not a God even Bill Mahr says there is no way a human can know for sure
  • Tea in ... CAPISCE 2012/04/06 00:41:36
    Tea in the Harbor
    +1
    Maher is wrong, look around you.

    A God could do much better than the human race. Could a perfect being's work be so flawed?

    Our existance is proof that there is no perfect being, and if that is true, there is no God as He is described.
  • BlytheS... Tea in ... 2012/04/06 07:54:18
    BlytheSpirit~bn0
    +1
    Amen, brother!!!
  • CAPISCE Annie~P... 2012/04/05 13:37:44
    CAPISCE
    Atheism is an absolute and a matter of faith just like religious beliefs.
  • Jay Theyme 2012/04/05 07:53:56
    Jay Theyme
    I remember when I was first online and was surprised to see the word 'fundie' appearing to describe nearly any Christians. maybe not surprising that an ignorant anti-christian attitude was inherent to the internet since it started off (largely) among University and college students - many beginning their indoctrination into western post-secondary anti-christian brainwashing.
    In the real world, Fundamentalism is something else. the term itself could seem to apply to a lot of different things (and in a good sense) for example it could apply to Quakers or 'Amish',
    however,
    in the church circles we first recalled this as being a kind of movement that I think happened back in the 20's or somewhere. A kind of 'church split' where you saw people go towards a liberal interpretation (as Germans were doing before WW2) and then those who went to a more wooden 'fundamental' interpretation.
    And as many Church-goers here know (and probably suffered) it always seems we have to go one full pendulum swing or the other. Nobody can just be reasonable.
    OK,
    'Fundamentalism' had a kind of resurgence again in the 80s. They somehow broke away/strained out of some charismatic groups. It was probably that same 'swing maximum away' from what was also a kind of resurgence in liberal theolog...





    I remember when I was first online and was surprised to see the word 'fundie' appearing to describe nearly any Christians. maybe not surprising that an ignorant anti-christian attitude was inherent to the internet since it started off (largely) among University and college students - many beginning their indoctrination into western post-secondary anti-christian brainwashing.
    In the real world, Fundamentalism is something else. the term itself could seem to apply to a lot of different things (and in a good sense) for example it could apply to Quakers or 'Amish',
    however,
    in the church circles we first recalled this as being a kind of movement that I think happened back in the 20's or somewhere. A kind of 'church split' where you saw people go towards a liberal interpretation (as Germans were doing before WW2) and then those who went to a more wooden 'fundamental' interpretation.
    And as many Church-goers here know (and probably suffered) it always seems we have to go one full pendulum swing or the other. Nobody can just be reasonable.
    OK,
    'Fundamentalism' had a kind of resurgence again in the 80s. They somehow broke away/strained out of some charismatic groups. It was probably that same 'swing maximum away' from what was also a kind of resurgence in liberal theology in the 80s too. Think of things like the 'Jesus Seminar' or History Channels ultra-liberal 'higher school of criticism' barely-Christian documentaries popular at the time.

    Anyways, long rant but its important because far too many people online are ignorant or genuinely naive and have inherited a very stupid idea of what 'Fundie' means and doesn't mean. (or if it means 'any Christians who really believe' then it means nothing).

    And yes I largely agree with what you wrote here in that far too many Fundamentalist churches love the Law, bringing back the Law, contriving ways to follow it and are also quite happy finding out who is a Law breaker (more than them I guess?).

    Having said that - I think what you might want to do is love someone enough, Spirit led, to want to be available to help them out of whatever sins are holding them back. That might be having a heart to heart with a man you know who wants sex with other men. Or a woman friend who wants to kill the baby inside. I agree - there isn't a lot of help walking up there and 'denouncing'. Be available to lend a hand if and when they reach it out there though.
    (more)
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