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Why did God punish Adam and Eve when neither had the knowledge that what they did was wrong (evil)?

kir 2012/07/28 20:11:06
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Anyone who has read the bible past the first few pages knows that the knowledge of good and evil were withheld from Adam and Eve and indeed it was their eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that caused them to be expelled from paradise.

If you're not familiar with it here's the deal.

Good created paradise for man. Yet he creates in paradise this one temptation, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God tells man not to eat of the tree's fruit.

Eve, who was deceived by the serpent did so anyway and also gave some of the fruit to Adam. Yet, while she may have been told not to, she had no concept of right and wrong without the knowledge of good and evil.

So why would a loving God punish Adam and Eve?
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Top Opinion

  • Brian 2012/07/28 21:11:17
    Undecided
    Brian
    +12
    They were punished not for their lack of understanding, but rather for their lack of obedience to God.

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  • Adam V 2014/01/10 00:58:49
    It's a story
    Adam V
    The Apple = intelligence (Imagination) not knowledge
    The Snake = poison to the apple (Knowledge)
    God mad = just lost soul to the snake (Purity gone)
    Truth = Same process going on for thousands of years ..... Egyptians called the imagination the third eye ....

    DONE
  • Scandalf 2012/10/03 13:33:29
    God's plan is beyond our understanding
    Scandalf
    And that's how we all get to tell Good from Evil!
    Try to view this thing positively! If Eve didn't do it we would have been ignorant!
    LOL!!!
  • kir Scandalf 2012/10/04 14:46:46
    kir
    +1
    So in your opinion God wanted Adam and Eve to disobey and therefore learn the knowledge of good and evil.
  • Scandalf kir 2012/10/04 19:38:09
    Scandalf
    I can only say "Allah Akbar!"
    OOOOPPPPPSSSS!!!!
    I meant "God is Great!"

    you don't get it when someone's kidding huh?
  • kir Scandalf 2012/10/05 01:57:13
    kir
    I tend to be very literal. Also it's difficult to interpret sarcasm over the internet.
  • Torchmanner ~PWCM~JLA 2012/10/03 13:17:03
    Undecided
    Torchmanner ~PWCM~JLA
    Liberals don't have reasoning skills.

    Adam and Eve were TOLD not to eat of that tree. They KNEW that they were not allowed to eat from that tree.
  • kir Torchma... 2012/10/04 14:46:11
    kir
    I'm not quite sure what liberals have to do with the question. The question is not whether they knew that they were not allowed to eat the fruit. The issue is whether or not someone without the knowledge of right and wrong can make a decision like that and more importantly, whether or not someone without the knowledge of right and wrong can be punished.

    Don't we treat minors differently for that very reason?
  • jojac 2012/10/03 04:47:13
    Undecided
    jojac
    The primary mistake that many are making is accepting the question as
    being the complete truth. Driving the couple out of the Garden was NOT
    punishment. It was for their protection, for their ultimate good.
  • Scandalf jojac 2012/10/03 13:34:42
    Scandalf
    Now that's odd! Why? What was wrong in the Garden?
  • jojac Scandalf 2012/10/08 16:07:44 (edited)
    jojac
    +1
    Good question Scandalf, thanks for it.
    Driving them out of the Garden was the most loving and merciful thing
    that God could do for His highest earthly creation. He drove them out to salvage them.
    There was nothing "wrong in the Garden" , but had the two stayed in the Garden
    things would have gone "from bad to worst". They would have eventually "eaten"
    of the Tree of Life, and they would then have lived forever in their "fallen" state
    with no chance of ever being restored to fellowship with God.
  • Scandalf jojac 2012/10/08 17:01:42
    Scandalf
    Some researchers believe that this event was actually the representation of the start of human civilisation (check it out!).
    Even in this case (even from an Atheistic point of view), your thought could be right!
  • jojac Scandalf 2012/10/08 17:35:01
    jojac
    Oh, I would think that they were more civilized before the disobedience,
    than mankind is now.
  • Scandalf jojac 2012/10/09 07:18:26
    Scandalf
    Not more civilized, just more happy.
  • taleeto 2012/09/13 17:05:45
    God's plan is beyond our understanding
    taleeto
    Eve felt ashamed because their eyes were opened, ashamed because they noticed how small they really are compared to God. they were ashamed after sinning(eating the fruit) as do I after I sin.
  • kir taleeto 2012/09/15 12:25:17
    kir
    So you could say that shame is what prevents us from sinning.
  • jojac taleeto 2012/10/03 04:52:04
    jojac
    Good response taleeto,
    However, God's plan is NOT beyond our understanding. Yes, I know, there was not
    a choice given that really fits. I selected "Undecided" and I am certainly not undecided.
  • MR. 2012/08/17 02:42:16
    Undecided
    MR.
    *(GENESIS 2:17) *BING IT!
  • jojac MR. 2012/10/08 16:13:12
    jojac
    And die they did that very day, (spiritually). They were separated from God, at enmity
    with God. And they also began to die physically.
  • Kane Fernau 2012/08/15 16:46:51
    Undecided
    Kane Fernau
    It was a test and they failed.
  • sobersouljah 2012/08/15 14:56:33 (edited)
    It's a story
    sobersouljah
    Some stories are true -



    Punishment or effect?

    If parents tell a kid not to do drugs because they can be harmful, maybe even kill you, yet that kid goes out and does a bunch of blow, overdoses and dies, would you think/say that the parents punished the kid with a sentence of death? Or would you think/say that the kid should have listened to his parents?

    Perhaps -prior to the knowledge of good and bad ( I think proper translations of the Bible use the word "bad" not evil) things just "were," as in "To be / being" - Originally,Adam and Eve's minds were not trapped in a state of duality where up is needed to define down, left to define right, start to define end, or good to define bad,,, things just were. Perhaps it is in the absence of duality you can step into the eternal ( without beginning or end ) and just "Be" -


    God created paradise for man? Why would Jah put the tree of knowledge in it?

    Maybe the better question - - - was it Jah's intention to have creation serve man, or man serve creation? Man in his ignorant and arrogant state assumes creation is there to serve him, but I believe the Bible says it is man who is there to serve creation.


    In regards to the knowledge of good and bad, one thing is certain, man still cannot handle it.
  • jojac soberso... 2012/10/08 16:17:18
    jojac
    So, you think that Creation is more important than man?
    Did God put man there for the sake of Creation?
  • ERide54 2012/08/06 16:35:49
    It's a story
    ERide54
    +1
    And it is God's Story. His-Story They were warned, just as we are thru his Word.
  • ⚥Κόζμω Græme اليا Mongrain 2012/08/06 04:28:28 (edited)
    Undecided
    ⚥Κόζμω Græme اليا Mongrain
    +2
    I have a "Babylon Hypothesis" on this 'Diaspora of the Truth'. When the >Custodian< demolished the Tower of Babel, scattered Mankind & scrambled their tongues, each Sect that cohered afterwards had (sometimes overlapping) fragments of the Truth (you can break it down further with each Individual possessing a smaller shard) but (almost) ALL of them Believed they knew Everything.

    Also, at 325AD, there was only one Christian Institution, the Church of Rome. In 1054 the Byzantine part split off to become the (Eastern) Orthodox Church. There were three competing Popes in the late 14th century. Come 1516, the Reformation quickly split the Catholic part into a few dozen (Luther, Calvin etc.). By the 1800's this became hundreds with the 2nd Great Awakening (Mormon, JW, 7th Day etc).

    Now, in the Information Age, it's estimated[?] that there are now some 30,000 distinct Christian sects globally. Same story with Islam (Sunni, Shia, Wahabbi etc.), Buddhism (Theravada, Mahayana etc.) yada yada yada.

    It looks like the BABBLE PROCESS is still underway

    Notable exception being Mystical (I myself use Sufism, Carl Jung, Quantum Mechanics etc.) types being that They knew their Info was incomplete &/or apocryphal.

    I also 'glean' conventional Spiritualism from my volunteer work at Presbyterian, ...&&




    I have a "Babylon Hypothesis" on this 'Diaspora of the Truth'. When the >Custodian< demolished the Tower of Babel, scattered Mankind & scrambled their tongues, each Sect that cohered afterwards had (sometimes overlapping) fragments of the Truth (you can break it down further with each Individual possessing a smaller shard) but (almost) ALL of them Believed they knew Everything.

    Also, at 325AD, there was only one Christian Institution, the Church of Rome. In 1054 the Byzantine part split off to become the (Eastern) Orthodox Church. There were three competing Popes in the late 14th century. Come 1516, the Reformation quickly split the Catholic part into a few dozen (Luther, Calvin etc.). By the 1800's this became hundreds with the 2nd Great Awakening (Mormon, JW, 7th Day etc).

    Now, in the Information Age, it's estimated[?] that there are now some 30,000 distinct Christian sects globally. Same story with Islam (Sunni, Shia, Wahabbi etc.), Buddhism (Theravada, Mahayana etc.) yada yada yada.

    It looks like the BABBLE PROCESS is still underway

    Notable exception being Mystical (I myself use Sufism, Carl Jung, Quantum Mechanics etc.) types being that They knew their Info was incomplete &/or apocryphal.

    I also 'glean' conventional Spiritualism from my volunteer work at Presbyterian, United, Pentecostal & two independent Protestant Churches. Frequent 2 Sufi & a Buddhist place too.

    You could say I'm "Hedging my Bets".

    Here's a YouTube video describing my rationale:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?...
    (more)
  • Transqu... ⚥Κόζμω ... 2012/08/06 05:15:27
    Transquesta
    +1
    "Hedging your bets" indeed! Sounds like Pascal's Wager on bath salts. :-) And since you're into Sufi Islam, perhaps we could start a sub-thread on the Enneagram. :-)

    In re: the Babel reference, not coincidentally I suppose, one of my favorite ways to limn the Internet is with the phrase "the Electronic Tower of Babel."
  • ⚥Κόζμω ... Transqu... 2012/08/06 09:04:15 (edited)
    ⚥Κόζμω Græme اليا Mongrain
    +1
    if you've seen the Impossible Game video, this my method of playing it.

    I'm also a right-brain dominant (but can oscillate rapidly) Asperger's which means my thinking tends to be scattered (working from the periphery in) so much of my Logic is strange to most.

    I'm also a Compatibalist:

    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function" - F. Scott Fitzgerald.

    I tend to favor being in Cognitive Dissonance rather than DoubleThink.

    If you're game, I'm willing to try out out the Enneagram. Since my "Spiritual Awakening" (Gnostic Atheist prior, now Agnostic Theist) a couple years ago, I've been doing intense Depth Psychology (on my own & with a pro bono Gestalt Psychologist) on myself as well as being a Seeker. Need to retrieve a Briggs-Myers, think it said I'm an Architect (damned to vacillate between Engineer & Artist).

    You've been warned, but you've noted a Synchronism (Jung) with Babylon…
  • BlytheSpirit~bn0 2012/08/05 06:26:46
    God's a spiteful S.O.B.
    BlytheSpirit~bn0
    +4
    God invented entrapment. Sets you up and then throws your ass in hell. What a guy!
  • jojac BlytheS... 2012/10/08 16:23:12
    jojac
    It is more likely that Satan has "entrapped" you.
    If a person goes to Hell, it won';t be because God "threw" him there. but he will have
    gone on his own accord.
  • BlytheS... jojac 2012/10/08 21:28:12
    BlytheSpirit~bn0
    Now that's just funny. God.......Satan.......I don't see a whole lot of difference.
  • jojac BlytheS... 2012/10/11 03:52:31
    jojac
    Rational, observant people know that the two are absolute opposites.
  • BlytheS... jojac 2012/10/11 05:13:06
    BlytheSpirit~bn0
    No, "rational" people know that religion is a sham.
  • jojac BlytheS... 2012/10/15 01:25:54
    jojac
    To reject all religion is not rational
  • BlytheS... jojac 2012/10/15 03:11:17
    BlytheSpirit~bn0
    +1
    Um, yes actually it is. To accept religion you have to set rationality aside. In rejecting religion you are embracing rationality.
  • jojac BlytheS... 2012/10/19 01:46:52
    jojac
    Well, I guess it all depends on ones definition of religion. I am not certain
    precisely how I would define religion. Words have different meanings to different people and that is one reason people disagree.
    And, in disagreements one can learn.
  • BlytheS... jojac 2012/10/19 01:51:34
    BlytheSpirit~bn0
    That is true and thank you for a kind answer. It is obvious that we are not going to agree on this, but that is never a reason not to get along with someone.
  • jojac BlytheS... 2012/10/19 02:26:13
    jojac
    +1
    I think it is a good idea for all answers to be "kind", and wish that all of mine would always be, but they probably won't always be.
    If we got along only with those with whom we always agree, we
    wouldn't be getting along with anyone.
  • kir jojac 2012/10/16 13:55:02
    kir
    Religion is the unwavering belief in something even in the opposition to evidence. That is indeed irrational. However, spirituality is not irrational since it is merely the belief in something that has not been proven but which has a possibility and gives you subjective satisfaction/peace of mind.
  • jojac kir 2012/10/19 01:50:48
    jojac
    Are you saying that if I am absolutely certain, for example, that Jesus
    is the ONLY way of salvation, that I am religious and therefore irrational, but not spiritual?
  • kir jojac 2012/10/19 02:48:38
    kir
    I would say religion is when your answer comes down to "because it is". So why are you absolutely certain that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation?
  • jojac kir 2012/10/25 02:07:24
    jojac
    That is a very good question kir. Much could be said in answer.
    God is perfectly Holy. He hates sin more than anything else. Sin
    is totally contrary to His nature. So even though He wants all people
    to be forever in His presence, He can not allow sin in His presence.
    A person in sin is separated from God, that is, they are spiritually
    dead. We all have a sin nature, and therefore we can not make ourselves perfect or sinless. But God made provisions for us to be acceptable to God. The penalty for sin has to be paid, and Jesus,
    the eternal Divine, sinless Son of God came and died for us. That is,
    He paid the penalty for sin, and if we accept His death as payment
    for our sin, God will see us as sinless, because He accepts Jesus'
    death as payment for us. And when God looks at us He sees
    the perfection of His Son.

    When we accepted Jesus, the Holy Spirit came to live permanently in
    us and is our teacher and guide. As we study God's word, we
    become more and more certain that we are in the family of God,
    and that there is no way we can ever get unborn.

    Since no human but Jesus is perfect, no one could pay the penalty
    for us that God would accept.
  • kir jojac 2012/10/25 10:42:02
    kir
    God set up those rules. God chose that method--according to the bible at least--to clear sin. Also God can't be in the presence of sin? Really? God has been in the presence of the devil.

    If God thinks it's a good idea to create a setup that forces his followers to go all over the world and force others to change their beliefs, then honestly God is seriously screwed up.
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