When you read this what do you understand the meaning to be?

ah well still the Bible shows it written for all to see maybe you could take a moment to read it again for only a real Christian understands what Matthew 6:33 means

that is true red horse I never said the Archangel was spoken of in this scripture.

i pointed it out because the scriptures show a timeline which brings into light as to when Jesus came to be Jesus when Micheal came to be Micheal but more importantly, a little something you missed. The truth is shown in the scriptures I didn't write them I only shared them with you, nothing personal dude, but so many make the same mistake and this goes against everything Jesus commanded us to do here on Earth and I am sure you would re-call Matthew 6:33 are the commands of Jesus.

now if me presenting you the truth has offended you I am sorry but it is better to tell the truth than to live a lie.

Jesus is not Michael, two different entities.

Dear Jackal thanks for answering I have one thought I would like you to think about

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

if they are two different entities why then do they have the same voice?

Supposedly God speaks through all Angels trying to communicate with man. Because God's voice is to powerful for the ear of mortals. That is my guess.

thats a new way to consider it but according to the Catholic Church God speaks to no one not even though the spirit creatures we call Angels.

the biggest problem here people blindly accepted the Trinity once the Catholic church wrote it in their own words yet people never stopped to challenge it as Matthew 6:33 directs all true Christians to do. there are at least three scriptures I know of that give the connection here between Micheal ( a prince in the heavens ) becoming a King on Earth and I am sure there is more but the main one Dan 10:21 and 1 thes 4:16 really do give a person reason to question the trinity,

consider what was Jesus name before he became flesh and blood?

consider why the Bible say God never walked upon the Earth as flesh.

consider why God allowed Jesus to become a Ransom and what that payment meant.
clue Adam.

thats just a little to work with for now thanks for joining in the talk

Jesus is God with us or immanuel;the word made flesh. God is a spirit(John 4:24) and took on the form of man to reveal himself to mankind his creation. John 1:1-14,God created the Angels and direct's them to minister to his people or to give a message to his servant's as Michael did to Daniel and Gabriel did to Mary and Joseph.

now if this is so why does the bible say no one has ever looked upon God's face?

also have you read 1 thes 4:16?

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

notice here Jesus has Micheal's voice does this not give us a clue?

The Lord (Genesis 1:1) himself will desend with the VOICE of an ARCHANGEL;Jesus created the angel's regardless of who they are and none of them came to earth and took on the form of man to reveal himself to his creation but this is what Jesu Christ did. This is what Jehovah Witnesses believe but it has NO scriptural proof.

I always loved this one who is the Lord?

was the Lord not called Jesus?

Did you know that God's Name is Elohiym?

God's name it the OT is also Adoni,Yaweh,Jehova,Lord,I am, and other's. But the name he said is the only way to get to the Father is Jesus St. John 14:6.

this is true you can not get to the Father unless Jesus accepts you which make them two seprate Spirits not one like people claim in the trinity concept do you believe that to be true?

No, the bible cleary states and God himself says that he is one spirit. John 4:24,26 and many more scriptural references.

so when you read KJV Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

here Jesus spoke of his father and not worship to himself you can see Jesus made clear they are two different Spirits not a trinity as even here Jesus did not include worship for the holy spirit/ghost.

and yes Jesus was right in saying his father is one spirit just as you have rightly pointed out John 4:24,26

so now I ask you if the Father is one spirit, and Jesus is a second spirit then who is the holy spirit/ ghost?

The Father and the WORD, and the Holy Ghost are the same entity(spirit) 1John4:2: 1John 5:7 God is one ,no such thing as Trinity in the bible John 10: 30 Jesus himself said "I and My Father are One"..,NOT TRINITY! Jesus talking to his disciples in John 14:7-9 said to them as he spoke to them and said"...if you've seen me you've seen the Father..." WHY? Because the WORD became flesh John1:14 and the Father revealed himself to Mankind through Jesus Christ.

strange I just had this almost same comment on another post Joe here is what I share in scripture


Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.


Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.


Jhn 10:31 ¶ Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.


Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

firstly I don't believe in trinity as they say it means the father son and holy ghost rolled into one ok.

now when you look at John 10:32 why did Jesus say do ye stone "me" and not us if the father and Jesus as the same spirit?

another point here to consider is Genesis Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

here you see God declare man in "our" image as to validate their is more than just God but his son to whom he was talking with.

does this make logic to you? if not what reasoning do you have behind this?

"But I will shew thee....."

Maybe it's an Ed Sullivan thing.

sure is the biggest shew out :-)))

I wonder how many folks around the planet have heard of Ed. No one knows exactly what he did, but everyone knew that no one did it better!

Do you mean the Angel Michael? If so this is a problematic area for Christians who are happy with the dogma of the Trinity.

As far as the OT is concerned, Jesus did not exist, and so arises another inconsistency in the world's most popular religion.

yes I do mean the first Angel ever created Micheal the one who casted Satan down to and bond him to the Earth.

You are right in what you say Jesus was not known until well after Micheal was called the Prince of YOU ( plural you ) people

I also find it strange people get the idea of ""the word"" mixed up as God himself for the Bible say the word was with God. hence his son in the beginning who came forth from God shortly after God was.

The early Christian fathers spent close on one hundred years arguing about Christ's divinity or lack of it, and defining the Trinity.

The Gospel of John identifies the Logos, through which all things are made, as divine (theos), and further identifies Jesus as the incarnation of the Logos.
Although the term "Logos" is widely used in this Christian sense, in academic circles it often refers to the various ancient Greek uses, or to post-Christian uses within contemporary philosophy, Sufism, and the analytical psychology of Carl Jung.

In Christology, the conception that the Christ is the Logos (Λόγος, the Greek for "word", "discourse" or "reason") has been important in establishing the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus Christ and his position as God the Son in the Trinity as set forth in the Chalcedonian Creed.

The conception derives from the opening of the Gospel of John, commonly translated into English as: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." In the original Greek, Logos (λόγος) is used for "Word," and in theological discourse, this is often left untranslated.

Trinitarian Christians often consider John 1:1 to be a central text in their belief that Jesus is God, in connection with the idea that the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are equals.

and here is the Problem thoes is the greek name for God Yet the Hebrew Name or first known name of God is Elohiym.

English (KJV) Strong's Root Form (Hebrew) Tense

In the beginning h7225 ראשית re'shiyth

God אלהים 'elohiym

created ברא bara'

the heaven שמים shamayim

and את 'eth

the earth. ארץ 'erets

now in order for a trinity to work one would have to come right back to the first scripture Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. I gave you the hebrew with this above.

here as you can see there is no one but God by himself. no Jesus or Micheal or word or even holy spirt/Ghost this is why it is very simple to understand God is above all and the word or Micheal was next I do not understand why Moses who knew God wrote his name in Title as God instead of Elohiym, bt I do know that the holy spirit/ ghost is the spirit of God and not some third person for God breathed into man his spirit and made him a living soul, did you read the scripture the same way?

Well, yes I did, within the limits of being an atheist, I would have to say that OT scripture in general does not support any division or diminution of the essential godhead into other forms.

All the other beings are created by god, and whether from clay or purely from his essence, are all simply created things and in no way equal to or consubstantial with god.

Michael (not Micheal) is an angel created along with all the others with one breath.

Jesus (despite what later apologias try to insist) is simply a man, touched by god, but no more divine than any one of his apostles.

sorry bout the spelling and or typo's it happens SH would greatly benefit from a spell checker even if it only picked up those typos.

I can see your point of view here bt I still feel that the word becamce Michael who was then born into flesh to become Jesus who was murdered by the Jew's with the aid of the Romans only to return to be Michael once more

this reasoning comes from Rev 12:9 - 12, as you know the lamb is Jesus and is tied to Michael during these scriptures as the only one powerful enough to cast down Satan.

I am interested on hearing more of your reasoning about Jesus as only a man.

Jesus is not Micheal, they are two different entities and to get a better understanding of this you would need to use books no longer considered part of the canon. I would suggest Enoch1 and the Book of Jubilees.

always open to higher learning thanks D.C. Willis

I don't know...

it's a hard point to grasp the concept after so many years of people saying one thing only to hear something different that may actually be true

Who Cares!!

in these times of high changing enviroments and human nature many do I think as everyone is looking to work out the reason why suffering plagues the Earth, could there be a connection between the two I wonder ?

A lot less focus on religion would go a long way.

sometimes I wonder Ron if their is another way to answer many of the questions in today's world, i am always open to hear any reasoning that has sound logic behind it. :-))))

Logic and reason instead of hocus-pocus is what we really need to take care of the suffering. Instead we have zealotry, religions that excuse unexcuseable acts, and despots that declare themselves gods.

while this would be great if it could happen I can't help but wonder why a book written centueires b4 my time as flesh has been correct in predicting events happening today, I am just not sure but think we are going to see something unexpected soon