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What is a miracle and do they really exist ?

prayer warrior 2013/01/09 01:45:14
Related Topics: Miracles, Miracle
Yes I believe Miracles exist
No I don't believe in Miracles
Maybe I am not sure about Miracles
None of the above answers
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people claim that miracles happen everyday but others claim this is something that can be explained if you look hard and long enough. What do you think.
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  • Isabel Perez 2013/01/13 15:43:13 (edited)
    Yes I believe Miracles exist
    Isabel Perez
    +1
    I believe in the miracle of Fatima! I also seen where baby's are born with no hope and they live to have a very happy normal lives!
  • prayer ... Isabel ... 2013/01/13 23:11:05
    prayer warrior
    Thank you for your response
  • Isabel ... prayer ... 2013/01/14 06:09:47
    Isabel Perez
    +1
    Thank you!
  • WATCHER 2013/01/09 15:41:30
    None of the above answers
    WATCHER
    +1
    Lourdes

    In 1858, at a grotto by the river Gave near Lourdes, France, a 14-year-old peasant named Bernadette Soubirous claimed that the Virgin Mary, identifying herself as "the Immaculate Conception," appeared to her some 18 times.* You'd think such a great number of visitations would have provided an opportunity to channel a short theological treatise of some significance. It seems, however, that the main message from the alleged "mother of a god" was: "Pray and do penance for the conversion of the world." Oh, and take a drink of the spring water.

    To its eternal discredit, the Roman Catholic Church investigated Soubirous's claims for four years before approving devotion to Our Lady of Lourdes. Since then, the Church has validated 67 miracles at Lourdes* (of the thousands that have been reported*) and canonized the peasant girl.* (Her body, which is on display, is alleged to be incorruptible, but the face and hands, which look so lifelike, are made of wax.) It is estimated that in recent years about 5 million pilgrims a year visit the shrine at Lourdes. Over the past 150 years, some 200 million people have made the pilgrimage.* For those who care, that's a success rate of .0000335% or 1 out of every 3 million. Furthermore, since 1947 anyone claiming a miraculous cure has to ...



    Lourdes

    In 1858, at a grotto by the river Gave near Lourdes, France, a 14-year-old peasant named Bernadette Soubirous claimed that the Virgin Mary, identifying herself as "the Immaculate Conception," appeared to her some 18 times.* You'd think such a great number of visitations would have provided an opportunity to channel a short theological treatise of some significance. It seems, however, that the main message from the alleged "mother of a god" was: "Pray and do penance for the conversion of the world." Oh, and take a drink of the spring water.

    To its eternal discredit, the Roman Catholic Church investigated Soubirous's claims for four years before approving devotion to Our Lady of Lourdes. Since then, the Church has validated 67 miracles at Lourdes* (of the thousands that have been reported*) and canonized the peasant girl.* (Her body, which is on display, is alleged to be incorruptible, but the face and hands, which look so lifelike, are made of wax.) It is estimated that in recent years about 5 million pilgrims a year visit the shrine at Lourdes. Over the past 150 years, some 200 million people have made the pilgrimage.* For those who care, that's a success rate of .0000335% or 1 out of every 3 million. Furthermore, since 1947 anyone claiming a miraculous cure has to go before a medical board. "From 1947 to 1990, only 1,000 cures were claimed and only 56 were recognized in that time, averaging 1.3 cures a year, against 57 a year before 1914."* Since 1978, there have been only four recognized cures.* So, if you're thinking of going to Lourdes for a miracle cure, the odds are not very high in your favor. Pilgrims might find some consolation in a British study that tested miracle-seekers at regular intervals for a year after they visited Lourdes and found that they were significantly less anxious and depressed.* Who wouldn't be cheered up by a trip to southern France and by being surrounded by people much worse off than yourself?

    Of all the cures alleged to have occurred at Lourdes, however, none have involved dramatic, unambiguous events like the growing back of a severed limb. Belgian philosopher Etienne Vermeersch likened this fact to the lack of clear, unambiguous data in support of the existence of Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster. He also claimed that there have probably been significantly more fatal accidents suffered by pilgrims on their way to or from Lourdes than there have been cures.

    The fact that the stories of miracles found in the scriptures of various religions involve cases that could be explained naturalistically (raising the dead or curing cancer...well, he wasn't really dead or she didn't really have cancer) or dismissed as mythological (born of a virgin, resurrected into heaven, survived three days under water) led Vermeersch to coin the expression "Lourdes effect" to describe this curious lack of a single unambiguous miracle by all the alleged miracle workers who have dazzled crowds for millennia. Why do supernatural powers resist manifesting themselves in a clear way? It's certainly not a matter of difficulty.
    (more)
  • prayer ... WATCHER 2013/01/09 22:14:58
    prayer warrior
    +1
    Thank you for your response

    As usual you have tried to be enlighten the masses. I am not sure some miracle board would know a miracle or not. Since they really and truly in most cases no the case history of the person involved
  • WATCHER prayer ... 2013/01/10 04:00:27
    WATCHER
    +1
    For the most part, there is very little investigation into miracles and they are taken at face value by the church without any documentation. That has been done repeatedly thoughout history and many have been sainted on those grounds.

    I find it sad that there has been such an attempt to mislead the public by this lack of integrity and effort.
  • prayer ... WATCHER 2013/01/10 16:50:55
    prayer warrior
    Well the Catholic Church has a board that is suppose to authnticate miracles but I don't know the process.
  • Roblem BN-0 2013/01/09 13:15:52
    Yes I believe Miracles exist
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    I have witnessed unexplainable phenomenon during my life time. Is it coincidence, divine intervention, positive thinking? Well, not everything is to be explained.

    And, like another stated... every time we wake up from sleep is a a miracle.
  • WATCHER Roblem ... 2013/01/09 15:31:27
    WATCHER
    +2
    Just becuase it cannot be explained and you do not know why it happened, does not quality it to be a miracle.
  • Roblem ... WATCHER 2013/01/09 17:18:49
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    OK... and just because you may believe you can explain things doesn't mean there aren't miracles. I have seen them.
  • prayer ... Roblem ... 2013/01/09 22:17:21
    prayer warrior
    +1
    Would you like to elaborate on one of the miracles ? I am just being curious because I do believe in them.
  • Roblem ... prayer ... 2013/01/09 23:43:18
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    The first miracles are that we both woke up this morning... so that is two. LOL

    Next is that I got clean and sober after 22 years of using drugs and alcohol... more so the drugs. AND, I have managed to stay clean for almost 14 years. The relapse rate among addicts is 80%. So, people can call it what they want... I say that is a miracle.

    There have been many instances where I received information... and it is unexplainable how I knew what I knew. Instinct? Common sense? A deduction based on experience? Maybe... but I don't believe so. Does that make a person psychic? I don't know for sure about that either. Just that my ex wife used to get annoyed about it. LOL

    There is a very long story of a community project that I was involved in for 8 years. 2003 - 2011. That project "died" several times. Saw many people leave and was over 100K short of funding at one point. If I never believed in miracles before that (which I did)... that project made me a believer again. Money and assistance came at the strangest times and it is a miracle that project was completed... LOL... actually it is a bunch of miracles. It is much too long of as story to write about here. It would take me half an hour or more. ;-)

    FYI.
    I am not a believer in the Bible as a book written by God. I do believe there are powers beyond our comprehension at work. We can call that God for lack of a better term. I sometimes call it "the powers that be".
  • strawberry Roblem ... 2013/01/10 02:43:11
    strawberry
    +2
    I understand your experiences and what you mean.
  • WATCHER Roblem ... 2013/01/10 04:10:59
    WATCHER
    My girlfriend also thought that found money was a miracle from god.

    The saddest part of that is when she was living with her husband, she used to hide money all over the house to keep him from using it to buy alcohol with. When he finally moved out and she was cleaning one day she found over $200. She phoned me and said it was a miracle.

    How can people be so incredibly naive and stupid at the same time?
  • Roblem ... WATCHER 2013/01/10 04:38:17
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    I never said those were all miracles from God. Just giving some examples of events that are unexplainable. You could always just say that events unfolded in a certain way that led people down a certain path at a certain time. But, the odds of coincidence are astounding at times. It has nothing to do with "stupid". And judging people as such doesn't mean your views or experiences are the correct ones.

    I met my (now ex) wife because her dog jumped on me at the dog park. The dog didn't jump on the hundreds of other people there. Why? If she never got that dog and was at the dog park on that day at that time my daughter would have never been born. You don't need to believe in magic or miracles... it does not mean they do not exist.

    I suppose you don't believe in the people who have abilities to solve crimes in an uncanny manner either. Those aren't all coincidences. Again, just because you don't see things... doesn't mean they don't happen.

    I remember a woman I was seeing waiting around for God to send her a plane ticket so she could go to visit her family. She said "I have faith". I just shook my head. She didn't get the ticket because she took no actions to make that happen. Faith is fine but we still need to take actions to make things happen.

    Why is the energy we emit an attracto...

    I never said those were all miracles from God. Just giving some examples of events that are unexplainable. You could always just say that events unfolded in a certain way that led people down a certain path at a certain time. But, the odds of coincidence are astounding at times. It has nothing to do with "stupid". And judging people as such doesn't mean your views or experiences are the correct ones.

    I met my (now ex) wife because her dog jumped on me at the dog park. The dog didn't jump on the hundreds of other people there. Why? If she never got that dog and was at the dog park on that day at that time my daughter would have never been born. You don't need to believe in magic or miracles... it does not mean they do not exist.

    I suppose you don't believe in the people who have abilities to solve crimes in an uncanny manner either. Those aren't all coincidences. Again, just because you don't see things... doesn't mean they don't happen.

    I remember a woman I was seeing waiting around for God to send her a plane ticket so she could go to visit her family. She said "I have faith". I just shook my head. She didn't get the ticket because she took no actions to make that happen. Faith is fine but we still need to take actions to make things happen.

    Why is the energy we emit an attractor? People can "feel" things that others are feeling. Why do some people have visions (or pictures) in their minds of events or people they have never met?

    Like I said, I believe in things/powers beyond our comprehension. That's totally cool that you don't. But, I don't label you as a stupid person or naive because of it.
    (more)
  • prayer ... Roblem ... 2013/01/10 16:58:18
    prayer warrior
    +1
    This was well said because if you don't believe in something it more then likely won't happen. It is said for something to happen you must have the faith of a mustard seed
  • Roblem ... prayer ... 2013/01/10 17:03:52
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    Thank you.
  • prayer ... Roblem ... 2013/01/10 17:15:34
    prayer warrior
    +1
    I just remembered when I was working in Detroit we got a call that a plane had crashed at Metro and they called for emergency responders from the area to head towards the airport. Everyong died on that plane bodies scattered but one small child survived sitting amid the wreckage crying now that I call a miracle.

    There was another time we were sitting eating when a plane passed very low over head and we said that was low and a few seconds later we heard a loud explosion and that was the plane crashing again it was a passenger plane.
  • Roblem ... prayer ... 2013/01/10 17:20:08
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    That is amazing.

    That reminds me of stories from the tsunami in Thailand (I think that is where it was) several years ago, HA, probably more than several now. There were some people who survived who really should not have... on pieces of wood, inside homes that were flooded, etc. The details escape my fleeting memory at the moment but I remember at the time thinking "how does this happen?" So many others perished. What makes the difference? Luck?
  • prayer ... WATCHER 2013/01/10 16:55:04
    prayer warrior
    +1
    Well to her might be a miracle that he didn't find it lol
  • prayer ... Roblem ... 2013/01/10 16:54:07
    prayer warrior
    Thank yu for your response and congratulations on your success of remaining clean against all odds. Yes it is a miracle that I am alive and you also. Keep the faith and May the powers to be stay in your life helping and guiding you.
  • Roblem ... prayer ... 2013/01/10 16:58:41
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    Thanks... my best to you and yours!
  • WATCHER Roblem ... 2013/01/10 04:03:25
    WATCHER
    When there is no documentation and no evidence, they are not miracles. That is just like the so called Miracles at Lourdes that are to be so famous. Yet they are at a success rate of .0000335% .

    That is less than the rate of coincidences. So being that Lourdes is one of the most famous sites on the planet, it would appear as though it is a complete fraud by the church.
  • Roblem ... WATCHER 2013/01/10 04:41:55 (edited)
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    I don't subscribe to any religions... been there done that years ago. Very distorted interpretations mess up the teachings.

    Yes, maybe that is a fraud. I have no information on that particular situation. I go by my own life experiences. I have had my own unexplainable events happen, which only a few were shared. I have my own relationship with a higher power. It doesn't require any one esle's blessings or condemnations.
  • prayer ... Roblem ... 2013/01/10 17:01:37
    prayer warrior
    +1
    Again well said I guess Watcher just wants to be the devil advocate but that is alright. I also know what I know.
  • Roblem ... prayer ... 2013/01/10 17:08:21
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    Thanks again. Yes, I'm fine with that. Watcher has an opinion and shares it. That is what we are here for... on SH. And, hopefully to learn a few things.

    I could do without the derogatory responses though. Just because a person doesn't believe in what others do doesn't make them more right or wrong. ;-)
  • prayer ... Roblem ... 2013/01/10 17:17:24
    prayer warrior
    +1
    Sometimes some people are derogatory because they no argument left. and they can't shake you out of your belief or opinion
  • Roblem ... prayer ... 2013/01/10 17:21:58
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    LOL... yes... and sometimes they just really think the other person is "stupid". I can say I've been there, but I really try hard to reserve that judgement. Although some make it easier than others. OK, that was wrong! LOL
  • prayer ... Roblem ... 2013/01/10 17:26:37
    prayer warrior
    +1
    Remember sometimes the truth hurts
  • Roblem ... prayer ... 2013/01/10 17:27:47
    Roblem BN-0
    +1
    OUCH! Because I've never done anything stupid in my life! LOL
  • prayer ... Roblem ... 2013/01/10 17:36:05 (edited)
    prayer warrior
    +1
    I never said that I think we have all bumped our heads lol
  • prayer ... WATCHER 2013/01/10 17:00:14
    prayer warrior
    Well sticking my two cents into this as I have said before does this discount a miracle ever happening ? No one is saying everything is a miracle but it is possible for something to be a miracle. I discount nothing in this world.
  • prayer ... WATCHER 2013/01/09 22:16:21
    prayer warrior
    +1
    How would you qualify a miracle ?
  • WATCHER prayer ... 2013/01/10 04:04:07
    WATCHER
    It would have to be beyond the scope of humanity,
  • prayer ... WATCHER 2013/01/10 17:03:19
    prayer warrior
    Ok but I don't know what you consider beyond the scope of humanity. Are you saying if I said I was bleeding that you would have to place your finger in the wound to make sure I was bleeding ?
  • prayer ... Roblem ... 2013/01/09 22:15:49
    prayer warrior
    +1
    Thank you for your response
    You are so correct because how many don't ever open their eyes again
  • moonglum 2013/01/09 07:32:43
    Yes I believe Miracles exist
    moonglum
    +1
    i think they do
  • prayer ... moonglum 2013/01/09 22:17:35
    prayer warrior
    +1
    Thank you for your response
  • Earthly Resident 2013/01/09 05:02:45
    No I don't believe in Miracles
    Earthly Resident
    +1
    by definition, a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is considered to be divine

    so No, there is no such thing as miracles, because everything so far contributed to being a "miracle" has turned out to be either a hoax or completely explainable through science
  • prayer ... Earthly... 2013/01/09 06:20:05
    prayer warrior
    Thank you for your response. I have a question if someone was said to have cancer and the doctors verified it. However later before there is any treatment the doctors reexamine the patient and their is no cancer what do you call this ? There were three different doctors that verified the cancer and nothing was done but prayer.
    How can you explain that scientifically especially if the doctors say there is no earthly explanation.

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