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What are some specific moral, emotional, and or intellectual reasons you reject the Christian gospel?

Bill 2011/11/16 16:34:07
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  • johnsdr 2012/11/14 03:59:02
    johnsdr
    +3
    Here is a link to The Gospel Message for reference

    http://www.evernote.com/shard...

    What is a moral reason someone why would reject this?
  • johnsdr 2012/11/14 03:26:57
    johnsdr
    Did anyone give a 'moral reason'

    From what I read here everyone is using logic and personal experience to provide a reason

    Is there a moral reason for rejecting the Christian gospel?
  • Ash27cop3 2012/04/12 16:15:47
    Ash27cop3
    +3
    well, i have to answer this question as well Bill (= && i read all the responses to the question that you posted and seen that NOT ONE PERSON answered the question .... But gave examples of what they believe. I am a Christian no I was not born a Christian, I choose to become one when I was 11 and accepted Christ fully the year before I went to Liberty University. I think all of you above me are VERY EDUCATED, and at one point in time questioned whether you believed or not, judging by the answers you have all submitted. I still want to know the answer to Bills question, not do you believe our brains do this and our hearts think this. But why do you as an atheist think you reject Christianity morally, emotionally, and also intellectually (which that one was already answered a few times) . Have a blessed day to you guys and I will keep you in my prayers, not judging any of you but yet doing what I feel is right, morally as a christian woman.
  • seathanaich 2011/11/16 17:46:58
    seathanaich
    +1
    Hi Bill. I'll tell you all the reasons why I'm not religious, and why I reject religions as an adult. I hope it helps answer your question. Number 10, 11, 12, and 13 in particular address your question.

    Atheism today is rapidly growing because of a combination of reasons. As an atheist, I don't just "not believe" in the Jewish god, Yahweh (aka “God”): I don't believe in anyone else’s gods either, for the following reasons:

    1. Brain Physiology and Chemistry: most highly religious and fundamentalist religious people have been shown in studies to have hyperactivity in their temporal lobes. I do not experience such hyperactivity. Important religious prophets and heros, from Saul/Paul to Joan of Arc, have epilepsy-like and/or autism-like medical symptoms, and this is no coincidence. Brain chemistry and physiology plays a huge role in our entire personalities, not just our religious beliefs.

    2. Lack of Parental Indoctrination: my parents did not indoctrinate me into a specific religion before I had the ability to differentiate logic and reason from myth and fallacy. Early indoctrination is vital for the transmission of religion. Hindu parents have Hindu children, not children who worship Zeus or sacrifice virgins to the Aztec volcano god. Religion is not a choice: it is a cultura...

























    Hi Bill. I'll tell you all the reasons why I'm not religious, and why I reject religions as an adult. I hope it helps answer your question. Number 10, 11, 12, and 13 in particular address your question.

    Atheism today is rapidly growing because of a combination of reasons. As an atheist, I don't just "not believe" in the Jewish god, Yahweh (aka “God”): I don't believe in anyone else’s gods either, for the following reasons:

    1. Brain Physiology and Chemistry: most highly religious and fundamentalist religious people have been shown in studies to have hyperactivity in their temporal lobes. I do not experience such hyperactivity. Important religious prophets and heros, from Saul/Paul to Joan of Arc, have epilepsy-like and/or autism-like medical symptoms, and this is no coincidence. Brain chemistry and physiology plays a huge role in our entire personalities, not just our religious beliefs.

    2. Lack of Parental Indoctrination: my parents did not indoctrinate me into a specific religion before I had the ability to differentiate logic and reason from myth and fallacy. Early indoctrination is vital for the transmission of religion. Hindu parents have Hindu children, not children who worship Zeus or sacrifice virgins to the Aztec volcano god. Religion is not a choice: it is a cultural inheritance from our parents.

    3. Diverse and Secular Society: in Canada people keep their religion largely to themselves. Those who push their religion on others are considered anti-social, rude, and uneducated. As a result, people outside my family were unable to indoctrinate me into their religious views. Not belonging to a religious group does not subject a person to much physical, economic, or social bigotry and abuse (any more). This makes opting out of religion a possible choice for me, unlike many people around the world who have no such freedom, and almost all people in the past who had no such freedom.

    Those are the three reasons why I wasn’t indoctrinated by others into a religion. I had no control over these factors. My first views on religion were not something I had much “choice” about. The religious beliefs people start with are inherited from their family, their community, and their society.

    What keeps me from becoming religious are the following reasons:

    4. Above Average Intelligence: my IQ is high. Highly intelligent people are less likely to be religious, and are less literalist/fundamentalist when they are religious. Polls in the late 1990s showed that only 7% of elite scientists (US NAS members and global Nobel Prize Winners in the Sciences) believe in any gods, and 93% of elite scientists are atheists. Polls in the UK showed that only 3% of elite scientists believe in any gods. Note: I am not saying that all religious people are stupid, or that all stupid people are religious, or that all atheists are smart, or that all smart people are atheists. I’m just pointing out what all studies have shown: higher intelligence correlates with less religion.

    5. Decent Education: I have a high school education which included Grade 11 and 12 sciences. I have a university education which includes first year biology and anthropology. It is difficult for religious belief, particularly religious literalism, to survive such an education, because people with scientific answers have less need for the magic ones which religions provide. Note: intelligence and education are not the same thing. Swedes aren’t more likely than Somalis to be atheists because they are smarter. However, they are much more likely to be atheists due to better education.

    6. Open-Mindedness: this means not being emotionally wedded to your opinions, and being willing to subject them to objective scrutiny with the possibility that tomorrow you may change your mind, even on important beliefs. I’d rather be correct about something than argue that what I already believe is “right”. In contrast, most people will defend their existing opinions to the death, and think being “open-minded” means agreeing with them. This belief itself is, ironically, close-minded. Open-mindedness leads to compromise and moderation, which are not compatible with dogmatic religious beliefs.

    7. Wealth and Health: I am relatively wealthy, and have good health. The poorest nations on earth have populations which are almost completely religious, because their life sucks, and they need something to get them through the day. I can understand and empathise with that. I just don’t need it myself. When you recognise religious belief as an emotion-based placebo, that tends to make you suspicious of it.

    8. Lack of Emotional Trauma: I have not had emotional traumas in my life. If I did, I have an existing human support network of family and friends I can rely upon for love and help. The three religious fundamentalists in my extended family have all become religious literalists after the traumas of debilitating disease, alcoholism, or sexual identity crises. A social network formed on family, work colleagues, neighbours, and people you share common interests with can easily provide the social support that a church congregation can provide.

    9. Internalised Values: I have internalised my values, and use my conscience to do the right thing, even when people aren’t looking. Many people are incapable of doing this, which is why leaders in ancient tribes made up the threat of all-seeing gods (like Santa Claus) to keep them honest. Unfortunately, this threat doesn’t really work. People either internalise values, or they don’t - they can’t be “frightened” by gods. Most of the prison population is religious, just like most members in the mafia, violent gangs, and organised crime are.

    10. Lack of Evidence: there is a complete lack of evidence for the claims of the world’s hundreds of religions. The extraordinary, magical claims of all religions require evidence to support them. In the absence of such evidence, the gods of religions are no more believable than the heroes and beasts of any other ancient tribal myths.

    11. Immoral Actions of Believers: many people who consider "faith" a virtue denigrate reason, education, science, and tolerance (all things I consider valuable); while promoting irrationality, superstition, ignorance, and violence (all things I consider harmful). The actions of these religionists repel me from their philosophies and dogmas, by association. While religion is not the only cause of evil and conflict in the world, we can all name many evil things done in the world that can be blamed partly or solely on religious beliefs.

    12. Irrelevance of Worship: bad things happen to people who pray, worship, and sacrifice to gods; and good things happen to people who do not. Thankfully today most people discard “sacrifice” as a primitive religious concept; but is prayer any less superstitious? Most religious people seem unaware that the benefits of prayer come from its meditative element. Prayer has a meditative effect upon the person performing it, but has no effect on other people, events, or the world generally. Prayer is not the “magic spell” that most religionists claim it is. The same benefits that religionists derive from prayer can be derived by atheists from meditation or yoga.

    13. Irrelevance of Religious Belief: charity, hope, honesty, love, etc - none of these things has anything to do with religion generally, or a certain religion specifically. Religion is irrelevant to any of these concepts, or personality traits, as is evidenced by the non-religious people who possess them, and the religious people who do not.
    (more)
  • Simeon~... seathan... 2011/11/16 19:24:34
    Simeon~thegayliberal
    Awesome. Seriously, I read every word and it fits almost exactly with how I believe and live.
  • seathan... Simeon~... 2011/11/16 21:11:27 (edited)
    seathanaich
    I'm glad you found that interesting, Simeon. Thoughtful questions deserve the respect of thorough answers, and I have quite a few things like this that I keep, and review, so that I can use them again. Bill has asked an excellent question in a respectful manner, and deserves both respect and intelligent thought in return. I hope this essay is thorough, accessible to a religious person, and neutral in language so they do not feel belittled or insulted when they read it. Cheers.
  • milfried 2011/11/16 17:37:14
    milfried
    As a person raised without a religion, I reject the Christian gospel only on the level that it is the pure truth and that every thing in it is literal. Religion is man made. God, if it exists, would be beyond human comprehension, IMO and I feel it is impossible to know who or what it is through one book or another. If someone states to an agnostic, like myself, that I should believe A., I have to say, that Muslim or Hindu just told me I have to believe B. for the same reason. As a belief system and a moral system I embrace Christians and Christianity and I think the Bible is full of history and fact and metaphor. I don't embrace some aspects such as virgin birth, actual physical ressurection, etc... I guess I am a bit of a deist.
  • Bill milfried 2012/11/15 16:19:49
    Bill
    I have to agree, religion is made by humans. Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship with the one True God and creator. The bible was written by God through human beings. There is no way we can fully comprehend who God is but scripture reveals his character. The bible is absolutely historical, the places and people did exist. It is also, in large part, a narrative. God's story, how he chose a people and what He accomplished through those people and for those people. Christianity as it is taught in the bible is not a set of rules to live by. Biblical Christianity is a love accepted and received by believers and the 'rules' or laws are simply direction on how to love God and people. His commandments are given only to those who love Him. Those who love Him want to obey Him because obeying God is how Christ followers show love and respect to God. You are right God, if he exist, could not be explained by one book. Consider the idea of the Trinity, one God three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This word is not used in Scripture but the idea is there. On a human level this is certainly not explained in a definitive manner. How can this be, seriously one God in three persons? It is a concept probably impossible to grasp, even people who say they understand it are probably lying. This concept of a the Trinity is so confounding, it could be proof by itself that the bible was not written by mere man.
  • Simeon~thegayliberal 2011/11/16 17:32:05
    Simeon~thegayliberal
    +1
    One reason is that I don't really believe in absolute morality, which is one of the principles behind Christianity.

    I don't believe in the idea that a person can be punished eternally for something non-eternal on earth. i.e. burning in hell for all eternity because of offenses committed in a non-eternal life. This brings up the whole issue of whether or not people are motivated to do what's right simply because they are afraid of going to hell. And if that is not the case, then why is the concept of hell needed in the first place?

    There are many religions of the world and the Christian gospel doesn't seem more "right" to me than other religions.

    A more emotional reason I guess would be the fact that I’m homosexual and Christianity rejects homosexuality and I have trouble reconciling that fact. There is nothing wrong with who I am or what I’m attracted to and to be made to feel like there is is problematic for me.

    Not to mention there are many inconsistencies and issues in the Christian holy writings that only strengthens the idea to me that it was simply written by imperfect men and didn’t have divine inspiration behind it.

    So, that’s just the beginning, but it’s a start.
  • Prime Time Lime 2011/11/16 17:19:29
    Prime Time Lime
    +1
    Morality is not based on religion or non belief,it is a way of life.
    Emotionally one has the right to believe or not believe what they want.
    Intellectually there is no proof that Christian gospels,or that of any religion are based on true life stories and could turn out of be parables.
    Atheism is based on the freedom of thought and choices.
  • milfried Prime T... 2011/11/16 17:33:32
    milfried
    I would say agnosticism is. I cannot absolutely say there isn a God (although any one religion's version of who God is, is most likely not true, IMO), however I cannot tell you from where life came, what the universe is, etc.. Not that GOD in the current image is what it is, but to some God is only an unknowable mysterious being. I cannot say that isn't true either. I tend to not believe, but I know I don't know the answers to that mystery.
  • seathan... milfried 2011/11/16 17:49:09
    seathanaich
    +2
    "I would say agnosticism is."

    That's because, like most people, you don't understand that atheism/theism is a completely different and unrelated concept that gnosticism/agnosticism.

    Atheist: a person who does not believe in a god or gods.
    Theist: a person who believes in a god or gods.
    Polytheist: a person who believes in multiple gods, often in a pantheon.
    Monotheist: a person who believes in a single god.
    Deist: a person who believes in a higher “power”, or equates the Universe or Nature with “God”.
    Non-religious: studies show this is usually code for “closet atheist”.

    Then there are two modifiers of belief which are commonly misunderstood and misused:
    Gnostic: Having knowledge. Agnostic: Not having knowledge.

    Gnostic theists “know” their god(s) exist.
    Agnostic theists worship a god(s), but admit they have no evidence or “proof” that this god exists at all, or in the way they imagine it does. Theists with doubts are agnostic theists.
    Agnostic atheists do not believe in any gods, but are open to the possibility that a god may exist, particularly a deist version of a god.
    Gnostic atheists “know” that certain gods, or all gods, do not exist.

    Many people mistakenly think “agnostic” is some neutral position between theism and atheism. This is incorrect. People ...

    "I would say agnosticism is."

    That's because, like most people, you don't understand that atheism/theism is a completely different and unrelated concept that gnosticism/agnosticism.

    Atheist: a person who does not believe in a god or gods.
    Theist: a person who believes in a god or gods.
    Polytheist: a person who believes in multiple gods, often in a pantheon.
    Monotheist: a person who believes in a single god.
    Deist: a person who believes in a higher “power”, or equates the Universe or Nature with “God”.
    Non-religious: studies show this is usually code for “closet atheist”.

    Then there are two modifiers of belief which are commonly misunderstood and misused:
    Gnostic: Having knowledge. Agnostic: Not having knowledge.

    Gnostic theists “know” their god(s) exist.
    Agnostic theists worship a god(s), but admit they have no evidence or “proof” that this god exists at all, or in the way they imagine it does. Theists with doubts are agnostic theists.
    Agnostic atheists do not believe in any gods, but are open to the possibility that a god may exist, particularly a deist version of a god.
    Gnostic atheists “know” that certain gods, or all gods, do not exist.

    Many people mistakenly think “agnostic” is some neutral position between theism and atheism. This is incorrect. People either believe in god(s), or they do not. Just like unicorns, or the sky being blue. Agnosticism and gnosticism modify both views. However, due to the stigma which often still applies to the label “atheist”, many atheists use the term “agnostic” instead. “Agnostic” has become used for people who are more properly defined as “agnostic atheists”. This is unfair to the many theists who are also agnostic.

    If you definitely know that Thor does not exist, you are a gnostic atheist in regards to Thor. If you don’t believe Allah is real, but concede that he could exist, you are an agnostic atheist in regards to Allah. If you think the Jewish god exists but maybe not as depicted in the Bible, and you attend a Christian church, you are an agnostic theist in regards to Yahweh (“God”). And if you are certain that some higher power exists, and claim to be able to prove it, you are a gnostic deist. Note that the same person could be all four, just in relation to different god concepts.
    (more)
  • milfried seathan... 2011/11/16 18:20:45
    milfried
    I know this and to be technical, I am an agnostic athiest, but in everyday conversation, I wouldn't say that b/c no one understands it. If I say I am a liberal, for instance (I am a classic liberal), people wouldn't understand the change in meaning and usage of the term liberal. I would have to explain the difference between a classic liberal (more of a libertarian, but not quite) versus a modern liberal, etc... So, I understand what you are saying.
  • seathan... milfried 2011/11/16 21:33:13
    seathanaich
    "but in everyday conversation, I wouldn't say that b/c no one understands it."

    I hear you, but that can change as you educate people. If we all do a little bit, we can accomplish that.

    You sound like an intelligent and beautiful woman. Cheers.
  • milfried seathan... 2011/11/17 01:14:21
    milfried
    Thanks, there is always so much to learn in life. It never stops.
  • Bill Prime T... 2012/11/15 16:38:20
    Bill
    You have not answered my question. Do you have a moral reason for rejecting the Gospel or the teachings of Jesus Christ? It matters not where your morals come from.

    There is actually a lot of proof that the bible is a historical document. There are records of the the places and kings mentioned in biblical scripture, there is Roman literature that talks of Jesus of Nazareth.
  • Sister Jean 2011/11/16 17:02:41
    Sister Jean
    nun
  • Fallout 2011/11/16 16:39:35
    Fallout
    Critical thinking
  • Bill Fallout 2011/11/16 17:04:44
    Bill
    I said specific, not general. Your answer show no signs of critical thinking
  • Fallout Bill 2011/11/17 03:52:46
    Fallout
    Critical thinking is as specific as it gets. By definition it's the reason
    I'm not religious.

    The Gospel is faith based and does not require critical thinking.
  • Bill Fallout 2011/11/17 03:55:44 (edited)
    Bill
    You couldn't be further from the truth my friend. Christianity does not indeed require you to leave your brain at the door. Have you considered that God doesn't want you to be religious to start with? See, you are closer to be Christian than you thought already. Faith is only part of it, first though you must have knowledge and understanding. You cannot just wake up one day and decide to be a Christian.
  • Fallout Bill 2011/11/17 05:44:25
    Fallout
    Most of the Christians I know were indoctrinated. It starts when they are
    young. Small children are fed religious information that over time becomes
    part of their existence. Humans should learn every religion, and then make
    up their own minds as adults instead of being subjected to forced
    indoctrination.

    Peace to all
  • Bill Fallout 2011/11/18 23:50:23
    Bill
    Regardless of whether or not you grow up in a Christian family or not, no matter how you were raised, you cannot be born a Christian. It isn't about knowledge or simple belief or following rules, rituals or traditions. Every man woman and child must make a decision to follow Jesus Christ in order to become a Christian. Those who say that they were born a Christian or raised as a Christian, really have no idea what it means to be a Christian. That being said, I was raised in a Christian family, but Jesus was seldom discussed away from Church. I was not indoctrinated, I didn't choose to follow Christ until I was in my 30s. After which huge changes happened inside of me. I no longer desire to live my life by my own rules, but now I want to live in a way that honors God. Wish I could say that I did it perfectly, but that is impossible. Today I'm a completely different man, I'm a better man. I'm a happier man and, for the most part, I make better decisions.

    I believe that what it means to be a "Christian" has been watered down by those who claim to be a Christian because they were raised that way and go to church on Sunday. These are the people who generally give the real Christians, or as I like to say Christ followers, a bad name. Not that all of them are bad people, but beca...

    Regardless of whether or not you grow up in a Christian family or not, no matter how you were raised, you cannot be born a Christian. It isn't about knowledge or simple belief or following rules, rituals or traditions. Every man woman and child must make a decision to follow Jesus Christ in order to become a Christian. Those who say that they were born a Christian or raised as a Christian, really have no idea what it means to be a Christian. That being said, I was raised in a Christian family, but Jesus was seldom discussed away from Church. I was not indoctrinated, I didn't choose to follow Christ until I was in my 30s. After which huge changes happened inside of me. I no longer desire to live my life by my own rules, but now I want to live in a way that honors God. Wish I could say that I did it perfectly, but that is impossible. Today I'm a completely different man, I'm a better man. I'm a happier man and, for the most part, I make better decisions.

    I believe that what it means to be a "Christian" has been watered down by those who claim to be a Christian because they were raised that way and go to church on Sunday. These are the people who generally give the real Christians, or as I like to say Christ followers, a bad name. Not that all of them are bad people, but because they are not true Christ followers, they do not and cannot show God's love to the people around them, or on SodaHead or wherever.

    So I agree, we should all make the decision ourselves.
    (more)
  • Fallout Bill 2011/11/19 06:32:09
    Fallout
    +1
    Christianity is a faith based religion. It's no surprise you were raised
    to believe in Christ. There's nothing wrong with faith.
    My mother is a faithful Christian. I'm glad it's working for you.
    I'm Agnostic and I will remain that way until Jesus or one of the many
    other religious super powers gives me a physical concrete reason
    to follow.

    I believe what it means to be a spiritual being has been watered down
    by religion.

    Peace.
  • Bill Fallout 2012/11/15 16:29:50
    Bill
    Who said I was raised to believe in anything? Have you ever asked God to reveal Himself to you so that you may believe. This is not a matter of good people becoming bad, it isn't a matter of seeing how a religion "works" for me or you. This is the difference between life and death.
    Read the book of John, before you read it ask His to reveal himself to you and He will. There are online nobles if you don't have one. Biblegateway.com is one
  • Fallout Bill 2012/11/16 02:37:29
    Fallout
    I believe in God. I do not believe in religion.
  • Bill Fallout 2012/11/18 04:15:01
    Bill
    Ok, so big deal. You believe in God. What does that mean? Who or what is God? Does God care if you believe? Is God personal or impersonal? Why does he exist? Does he care about you or me or anything? Is he creator? If so why did he create?
  • Fallout Bill 2012/11/18 16:37:38 (edited)
    Fallout
    Where did you get all those definitions for God?

    Why are you trying to define God?

    God is to great for me to define.
  • Bill Fallout 2012/11/19 21:11:00
    Bill
    I have not tried to define God. He has defined Himself through the authors of the Christian bible. He has revealed Himself to me through the bible and through prayer and through what He has done in me, through me, and for me. I know He loves me and He loves you too.
  • Bill Fallout 2012/11/18 04:22:14
    Bill
    Still... The question remains, do you accept the the Christian Gospel or not? Do you believe the scriptures in the Christian holy bible or not? If you have read and understood the Christian bible then you would understand that it isn't about religion.
  • Fallout Bill 2012/11/18 16:42:10
    Fallout
    As of now that is a big fat NO!!!!

    I grew up with a very Catholic mother. I'm very familiar with
    the Bible and I understand it. The Bible is not for me.

    Thank God
  • Bill Fallout 2012/11/19 21:14:00
    Bill
    The bible is a big text message for ALL to know who He is. He wants to reveal Himself to you. He wants a relationship that is personal and intimate with you.
  • Fallout Bill 2012/11/20 02:20:40
    Fallout
    I'm happy for you. The bible in not for me.
  • tracy.b... Fallout 2014/06/05 00:42:45
    tracy.burkey.5
    +3
    I would not put my beliefs on anyone. God will reveal soon enough the consequences of sin. I just wish the world wasn't so weak and evil.
  • Fallout tracy.b... 2014/06/05 12:26:23
    Fallout
    Humans in every facet of mythology have been
    expressing this idea for thousands of years.

    "God will reveal soon enough the consequences of sin."

    What about all the good and strength in the world?

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