Quantcast

Wayward pilots say they were busy using laptops... How many thinking Americans truly believe that?

mikestice 2009/10/27 00:03:32
"It's inexcusable," ..."I feel sorry for the individuals involved, but this was certainly not an innocuous event
"It is unsettling when you see experienced pilots who were not professional in flying this flight," said Kitty Higgins, a former NTSB board member. "This is clearly a wakeup call for everybody."
None of the above
You!
Add Photos & Videos
WASHINGTON – Not sleeping, the pilots say. They were engrossed in a complicated new crew-scheduling program on their laptop computers as their plane flew past its Minneapolis landing by 150 miles — a cockpit violation of airline policy that could cost them their licenses.

They were so focused on the scheduling — quite a complicated matter for the pilots after Delta Air Lines acquired Northwest Airlines a year ago — that they were out of communication with air traffic controllers and their airline for more than an hour. They didn't realize their mistake until contacted by a flight attendant about five minutes before the flight's scheduled landing last Wednesday night, the National Transportation Safety Board said Monday.

By then, Northwest Flight 188 with its 144 passengers and five crew members was over Wisconsin, at 37,000 feet.

The pilots — Richard Cole of Salem, Ore., the first officer, and Timothy Cheney of Gig Harbor, Wash., the captain — denied they had fallen asleep as aviation experts have suggested, the safety board said in recounting investigators' interviews with the men over the weekend.

Instead, Cole and Cheney said they both had their laptops out while the first officer, who had more experience with scheduling, instructed the captain on monthly flight crew scheduling.

A number of aviation experts — and people wondering about their next airline flights — have been suggesting it was more plausible that the pilots had fallen asleep during the San Diego-to-Minneapolis flight than that they had become so focused on a conversation that they lost awareness of their surroundings for such a lengthy period of time.

Air traffic controllers in Denver and Minneapolis repeatedly tried without success to raise the pilots by radio. Other pilots in the vicinity tried reaching the plane on other radio frequencies. Their airline tried contacting them using a radio text message that chimes.

Authorities became so alarmed that National Guard jets were readied for takeoff at two locations and the White House Situation Room alerted senior officials, who monitored the airliner as the Airbus A320 flew across a broad swath of the mid-continent out of contact with anyone on the ground.

"It's inexcusable," said former NTSB Chairman Jim Hall. "I feel sorry for the individuals involved, but this was certainly not an innocuous event — this was a significant breach of aviation safety and aviation security."

Delta said in a statement that using laptops or engaging in activity unrelated to the pilots' command of the aircraft during flight is strictly against the airline's flight deck policies. The airline said violations of that policy will result in termination.

There are no federal rules that specifically ban pilots' use of laptops or other personal electronic devices as long as the plane is flying above 10,000 feet, said Diane Spitaliere, a Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman.

"I think it depends upon how it's being used," Spitaliere said.

The Air Transport Association, a trade group that represents major U.S. airlines, expects pilots to comply with federal regulations and airline policies, but hasn't taken a position on the use of electronic devices by pilots while in the cockpit, ATA spokeswoman Elizabeth Merida said.

Delta has suspended the two pilots pending an investigation into the incident. FAA is also investigating and has warned Cheney and Cole their pilot licenses could be suspended or revoked.

Pilots' schedules are tied to their seniority, which also determines the aircraft they fly. Those at the top of the list get first choice on vacations, the best routes and the bigger planes that they get paid more for flying. Following Delta Air Lines' acquisition of Northwest, an arbitration panel ruled that the pilot seniority lists at the two carriers should be integrated based on pilots' status and aircraft category.

Cheney and Cole are both experienced pilots, according to the NTSB. Cheney, 53, was hired by Northwest in 1985 and has about 20,000 hours of flying time, about half of which was in the A320. Cole, 54, had about 11,000 hours of flight time, including 5,000 hours in the A320.

Both pilots told the board they had never had an accident, incident or violation, the board said.

The pilots acknowledged that while they were engaged in working on their laptops they weren't paying attention to radio traffic, messages from their airline or their cockpit instruments, the board said. That's contrary to one of the fundamentals of commercial piloting, which is to keep attention focused on monitoring messages from controllers and watching flight displays in the cockpit.

"It is unsettling when you see experienced pilots who were not professional in flying this flight," said Kitty Higgins, a former NTSB board member. "This is clearly a wakeup call for everybody."
Add a comment above

Top Opinion

  • Not Einstein 2009/10/27 00:12:21
    "It's inexcusable," ..."I feel sorry for the individuals involved, but this w...
    Not Einstein
    +6
    Fire them. I don't care how much flight time they have under their belts, or whether or not they never had an "accident, incident or violation." It only takes once. Most airline pilots don't get a second after crashing, nor do their 100 plus passengers.

Sort By
  • Most Raves
  • Least Raves
  • Oldest
  • Newest
Opinions

  • Peggy 2009/10/28 03:21:32
    None of the above
    Peggy
    +1
    I do not believe a word of the excuses.
    They should be fired
  • mikestice Peggy 2009/10/28 04:36:00
    mikestice
    +1
    Their jobs are so important, yet they acted like they were immune from problems...

    I agree, ditch the bums.
  • Sasssy 2009/10/27 13:31:51
    None of the above
    Sasssy
    +1
    They were asleep. They forget to set their alarm clock. asleep forget alarm clock
  • mikestice Sasssy 2009/10/27 15:01:15
    mikestice
    +1
    I believe something a bit different... but it was not their laptops that kept them distracted...
  • Piwan 2009/10/27 12:38:15
    None of the above
    Piwan
    +1
    They were probably TEXTING! God knows, everyone else is doing it while operating a vehicle, so why not them! Did you ever notice that Otto Pilot looks like a grown up version of Bobby Hill, (King of the Hill)?
  • mikestice Piwan 2009/10/27 12:45:14
    mikestice
    +1
    I never watched King of the Hill... sorry... it might be a funny comparison...
  • red hulk 2009/10/27 07:22:33
    "It is unsettling when you see experienced pilots who were not professional i...
    red hulk
    +1
    It displeases me to see pilots with that kind of Incompetence and I bet they were sleeping on the job.
  • mikestice red hulk 2009/10/27 12:34:53
    mikestice
    +1
    Well, it is a wake up call for the ntsb...
  • red hulk mikestice 2009/10/29 03:26:02
    red hulk
    +1
    I am sure you know the pilots got fired.
  • mikestice red hulk 2009/10/29 03:55:06
    mikestice
    +1
    I did not hear that. Public opinion formed that firing...
  • red hulk mikestice 2009/10/29 04:00:21
    red hulk
    +1
    I am sure it definitely did get them fired.
  • mikestice red hulk 2009/10/29 04:01:48
    mikestice
    +1
    They were clowns to think they could get away with a story of any type. They screwed up. Purely and simply they screwed up.
  • red hulk mikestice 2009/10/29 04:05:54
    red hulk
    +1
    I am sure it will serve as a example to other pilots If they do not perform their job right.
  • mikestice red hulk 2009/10/29 04:08:07
    mikestice
    +1
    How many pilots tonight are tooth picking their eyes open???
  • red hulk mikestice 2009/10/29 04:22:10
    red hulk
    +1
    Laugh out loud. Bet they are.
  • Spider20 2009/10/27 06:11:23
    "It is unsettling when you see experienced pilots who were not professional i...
    Spider20
    +1
    I don't believe their excuse......maybe it's time we had video cams in the cockpit....
  • mikestice Spider20 2009/10/27 12:36:32
    mikestice
    +1
    That idea does have scope and texture... I like it. I knew they would concoct something for the cameras... we were distracted by our laptops! Horse shit!
  • lonewolf 2009/10/27 03:43:59
    "It's inexcusable," ..."I feel sorry for the individuals involved, but this w...
    lonewolf
    +3
    i think they were napping or busy with the mile high club. how do you miss your landing by 150 miles
  • mikestice lonewolf 2009/10/27 03:53:11
    mikestice
    +1
    That is what I am wondering... These guys were very happily engaged if you ask for my opinion.
  • lonewolf mikestice 2009/10/27 03:56:54
    lonewolf
    +2
    they were and we all know it. all planes have buzzers on them to warn pliots when getting close to the destnation or if they over fly it.
  • mikestice lonewolf 2009/10/27 04:03:49
    mikestice
    +1
    I know. That is the mystery.... I hope she was beautiful...
  • lonewolf mikestice 2009/10/27 04:11:06
    lonewolf
    +2
    really. it makes me wonder if it ever happend while i was on a plane
  • mikestice lonewolf 2009/10/27 04:15:06
    mikestice
    +2
    it had too...
  • lonewolf mikestice 2009/10/27 04:29:24
    lonewolf
    +2
    gezz if we didn't have enough to worry about. now we have to worry about the pilots
  • mikestice lonewolf 2009/10/27 04:31:40
    mikestice
    +2
    It is the way of "Cover my ass."
  • lonewolf mikestice 2009/10/27 04:38:49
    lonewolf
    +2
    no kidding
  • mikestice lonewolf 2009/10/27 04:02:56
    mikestice
    +1
    Agreed.
  • Beer30 2009/10/27 03:20:18
    "It is unsettling when you see experienced pilots who were not professional i...
    Beer30
    +2
    It surrre wasn't a computer they had sittin' on their laps,,,,
  • mikestice Beer30 2009/10/27 03:21:48
    mikestice
    +2
    Gawd,can we be more specific?
  • BlueStone 2009/10/27 02:19:55
    None of the above
    BlueStone
    +2
    I believe the pilots. I see no reason not to believe them. They are in a difficult situation over this with their careers at risk, even with their explaination.
  • mikestice BlueStone 2009/10/27 02:29:35
    mikestice
    +4
    Those are two perfectly good reasons not to believe. It is difficult- they might make up anything and also because their careers are on the line it is imperative to be joined in mind to stick together... I think the joined the Mile High Club...
  • BlueStone mikestice 2009/10/27 02:56:00
    BlueStone
    +2
    Thank you for the reply. We are probably not going to agree on this one. When the plane landed they were no doubt separated and questioned individually. I'm sure that this is standard practice. If they planned to stick together and they did it at any point during the last 30 minutes of the flight, their planning would be on the flight recorder. The time they would have had to plan to stick together would have been very limited. Finally and conclusively for me, their admissions that they were using their laptop computers are statements against their interests, because they are making admissions that are grounds for being fired. There is a high probability of truthfulness when statements are against the interests of the persons making them.
  • mikestice BlueStone 2009/10/27 03:09:39 (edited)
    mikestice
    +1
    I have encountered many situations and people who have been stimulated the same way. You and I probably won't agree, (except to disagree) but it is all to fishy. I have seen in the Air Force where the people who were accused really cooked up a whopper of a story to keep from being dismissed from the service. I an several others witnessed me shooting my 38 in a Turkish Guard house. It was stupid but none of us wanted our Careers to fail. I was ranking nco and I said that it would be advisable to have our stories correct. So we all took oaths against the truth and for probable cause. There were several of us who had been attacked, had a Turkish grease gun pointed at us during our time in Balakashire, Turkey. We decided that the Turk soldiers should take the fall for this event. And with one pact we chose to say that the Turks were off of their posts and acting in an adversarial manner. I shot, accidentally, to bring order to the 2 man, no lone zone rules. I took the biggest hit because I was in charge... but it was worth it to cover for the other guys. You never know when you'll need their support again.

    Everything is declassified now and it is history... but this shit does happen.
  • MO.gal 2009/10/27 02:16:40
    None of the above
    MO.gal
    +4
    I don't believe in fairy tales and I don't believe that story either. Whatever they were doing, they were not thinking about all the passengers whose lives were in their hands.
  • mikestice MO.gal 2009/10/27 02:30:57
    mikestice
    +2
    You are so right. Their minds were concentrating on a "Really Good Time!!!!!!" That is known around airports as RGT!
  • moomoof 2009/10/27 01:53:56
    "It's inexcusable," ..."I feel sorry for the individuals involved, but this w...
    moomoof
    +3
    Anyother job i would say let it go but this one could cause many deaths
  • mikestice moomoof 2009/10/27 02:06:57
    mikestice
    +3
    You are right. Information needs to be disseminated because of those very risks...
  • moomoof mikestice 2009/10/27 02:07:40
    moomoof
    +3
    yes it should
  • emily 2009/10/27 01:33:32
    "It is unsettling when you see experienced pilots who were not professional i...
    emily
    +2
    Were they working on schedules or playing video games? Driving or flying you should not be so involved in another activity that you can't do the job that you are paid to do.
    That said, I drove past one of my stops on my delivery route last week. I turned around when I realized my error. It happens, I hadn't been on that route for a while. Thank God, parts don't complain.
  • mikestice emily 2009/10/27 01:37:16
    mikestice
    +4
    I and another SH stated the same as you... but distraction on all parts... inexcusable. If they were tired they could have slept in shifts but this is nonsense. I think they joined the mile high club.

See Votes by State

The map above displays the winning answer by region.

Living

2013/05/24 01:12:11

Hot Questions on SodaHead
More Hot Questions

More Community More Originals