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The similarities between ancient Sumerian and Hebrew texts are...

Mungu 2012/09/11 19:24:49
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There are strong similarities between the ancient Sumerian
and Hebrew myths.



Sumerian Reconstructionists hear all the time that there are
biblical connections with some Sumerian myths and practices. For some these
connections with the bible's ancient past are what brought them to Sumerian
Reconstructionism.

sumerian



Commonly Christians argue that these myths simply show that
the myths been twisted time by pagans, and that the biblical versions are the
original unaltered truth. Texts in the bible telling who wrote it and where
they came from tell another story. These biblical texts are backed up by
historical records and Scientific dating that tells that the biblical stories
were indeed written later.



There are similarities that can be drawn between any two
myths. Some of these are relevant and some of them are not. A single
unqualified similarity does not mean that there is a connection. When two myths
come from the same area there will usually be some awareness of an older myth
by the people who profess the newer myth.

dudududdu



These similarities are there, but the fact that there is a
similarity does not mean that the myths speak of a universal truth. What may be
true for the ancient Israelites and the Sumerians or the Akkadians might not be
true of the ancient people of India for example. It is important to know the similarities are
there.



Three modern translations of ancient Sumerian text:





The Enuma Elish (The Epic of Creation) translated by L. W. King [1902]



The Babylonian creation saga. Adapa and the food of Life. Translated by R. W. Rogers [1912]



The Epic of Gilgamish by R. Campbell Thompson [1928]

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  • brian.southworth.921 2012/09/11 23:24:59
    None of the above
    brian.southworth.921
    Everything morphs. Societies, religion and language. One of the most interesting things about sociology is the study of how this was mixed with that and becomes something else.
  • kneedragon76 2012/09/11 22:56:15
    None of the above
    kneedragon76
    all religions stemed from the same believe the jews were "chosen" because they kept the belive close to what god expected. Greeks Romans Mians Incans all have simalr symbology most ancient religions instead of the worshiping the creater for which the stars told stories instead started worshiping ths stars. Thor - the demi god, Herculese - the half god son of Zues, Jesus - the living son of God.... They are all the same jew and muslims believe the mesiah will come they just don't believe it is jesus. But dont ask muslims those dummies burned all their books in the first century because they though all creation should come from god. Later their religion got so f'd up it took a so called prophet mohamud to try to tie it back together...
  • kneedra... kneedra... 2012/09/11 23:01:01
    kneedragon76
    that akkadian deity is a cherub (biblical cheribim). Egyptians had the Sphinx (guards over the pharoes in the valley of the dead). Cheribims were gods gardians so too were the Seriphim... the cheribim is on top of the arc of the covinant which is a 4 winged creature with 4 heads one of a man, eagle, bull, and lion according to the bible. The Cheribim is the proctor of the garden of eden, atlantis, shangrala.
  • Mungu kneedra... 2012/09/12 03:56:46
  • Clay Slayer 2012/09/11 22:49:54
    Hebrews copied
    Clay Slayer
    +1
    For every story, there is a story just like it in history.. All Myths,, rehashed with changed names and places...
  • kneedra... Clay Sl... 2012/09/11 23:01:44
    kneedragon76
    follow history and religion not only starts to make sence but is undoubtably true.
  • kneedra... Clay Sl... 2012/09/11 23:02:11
    kneedragon76
    of course its a lot easier to just deny it and hope your right.
  • Clay Sl... kneedra... 2012/09/12 13:09:46
    Clay Slayer
    So I guess it is better to believe in Hob Goblins and ghosts, and non existant gods than believe in REALITY...
  • Mungu Clay Sl... 2012/09/12 14:34:18
    Mungu
    I always wondered why I never saw a book relating how the Zeus "sky father" mythology influenced the Odin "sky father". Or do you think I assume too much?
  • Clay Sl... Mungu 2012/09/12 14:44:57
    Clay Slayer
    +1
    There probably is one.. just havent found it yet.. However back in the days of the Vikings.. most societies had their own Mythological gods...

    Both of these gods have a specific symbol of power. Zeus has his lighting bolt,and Odin has his spear. Both of these items have a somewhat negativeinterpretation. Lighting is a destructive force and a spear is a weapon used tokill. In our society, gods are usually displayed to have a very positive lightsurrounding them and a weapon may seem strange to us as a symbol of a god. We mustalso see that the gods both used their respective weapons by throwing them. Maybethis is the beginning of the thoughts of a cosmic entity -- the gods did not haveto be physically there, but could project their intentions from afar. The factthat both of these symbols were destructive in one form or another raises a fewquestions: Were these cultures looking for a destructive god? Were they still at astate that a primitive personification of man was desired as a god? Were thesesocieties looking at chaos and destruction as being more important in the societythan order? It may be that the fear that they invoke will have people thinkingthat they can be punished, and if they are punished it will not be a simple slapon the wrist, but rather a spear or lightning bo...


    There probably is one.. just havent found it yet.. However back in the days of the Vikings.. most societies had their own Mythological gods...

    Both of these gods have a specific symbol of power. Zeus has his lighting bolt,and Odin has his spear. Both of these items have a somewhat negativeinterpretation. Lighting is a destructive force and a spear is a weapon used tokill. In our society, gods are usually displayed to have a very positive lightsurrounding them and a weapon may seem strange to us as a symbol of a god. We mustalso see that the gods both used their respective weapons by throwing them. Maybethis is the beginning of the thoughts of a cosmic entity -- the gods did not haveto be physically there, but could project their intentions from afar. The factthat both of these symbols were destructive in one form or another raises a fewquestions: Were these cultures looking for a destructive god? Were they still at astate that a primitive personification of man was desired as a god? Were thesesocieties looking at chaos and destruction as being more important in the societythan order? It may be that the fear that they invoke will have people thinkingthat they can be punished, and if they are punished it will not be a simple slapon the wrist, but rather a spear or lightning bolt hurled at them. So I believethat this fear was used when the myths were being originally fashioned so that onewould be intimidated to believe and worship.One last thing to be considered about these two gods, and their manliness, is thatboth of them were very fertile. They were both fathers to many offspring, thus
    spreading their wonderful qualities around to other beings. What I think thesesocieties needed was a powerful man, one who was warlike, strong, large,intimidating and prolific. This was they type of god that one in those times could fear and respect, and therefore worship fairly easily.THOR

    FEAR makes it much easier to worship a god/gods... Not unlike christians God.,.. you must Fear it,,, I dont need a god that I must fear, and I damn sure dont need it...
    (more)
  • Mungu Clay Sl... 2012/09/12 16:26:55
    Mungu
    I agree, a religion that motivates with fear is primitive. We must evolve our religions, if we are to evolve.
  • Clay Sl... Mungu 2012/09/12 16:36:37
    Clay Slayer
    All religions, are based on fear of some God/gods, without that fear there would be no hold or control on people...
  • Bingo's Faddah 2012/09/11 22:22:49
    None of the above
    Bingo's Faddah
    Those damn baby eating, devil worshiping Pagans at it again? Sheesh!!!

    damn baby eating devil worshiping pagans sheesh

    Let's remember that all those folks of so long ago are closely related. They moved around and settled new areas all the time. Naturally, they brought all their stories with them. When folks decided to bring God into politics, well.........

    We're currently researching the religious significance of "Little Jack Horner".
  • evangelism_vision 2012/09/11 20:31:03
    None of the above
    evangelism_vision
    +1
    The Flood of Noah and the Flood of Gilgamesh
    by Frank Lorey, M.A.

    Background

    The Epic of Gilgamesh has been of interest to Christians ever since its discovery in the mid-nineteenth century in the ruins of the great library at Nineveh, with its account of a universal flood with significant parallels to the Flood of Noah's day.1, 2 The rest of the Epic, which dates back to possibly third millennium B.C., contains little of value for Christians, since it concerns typical polytheistic myths associated with the pagan peoples of the time. However, some Christians have studied the ideas of creation and the afterlife presented in the Epic. Even secular scholars have recognized the parallels between the Babylonian, Phoenician, and Hebrew accounts, although not all are willing to label the connections as anything more than shared mythology.3

    There have been numerous flood stories identified from ancient sources scattered around the world.4 The stories that were discovered on cuneiform tablets, which comprise some of the earliest surviving writing, have obvious similarities. Cuneiform writing was invented by the Sumerians and carried on by the Akkadians. Babylonian and Assyrian are two dialects of the Akkadian, and both contain a flood account. While there are differences between the ...























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    The Flood of Noah and the Flood of Gilgamesh
    by Frank Lorey, M.A.

    Background

    The Epic of Gilgamesh has been of interest to Christians ever since its discovery in the mid-nineteenth century in the ruins of the great library at Nineveh, with its account of a universal flood with significant parallels to the Flood of Noah's day.1, 2 The rest of the Epic, which dates back to possibly third millennium B.C., contains little of value for Christians, since it concerns typical polytheistic myths associated with the pagan peoples of the time. However, some Christians have studied the ideas of creation and the afterlife presented in the Epic. Even secular scholars have recognized the parallels between the Babylonian, Phoenician, and Hebrew accounts, although not all are willing to label the connections as anything more than shared mythology.3

    There have been numerous flood stories identified from ancient sources scattered around the world.4 The stories that were discovered on cuneiform tablets, which comprise some of the earliest surviving writing, have obvious similarities. Cuneiform writing was invented by the Sumerians and carried on by the Akkadians. Babylonian and Assyrian are two dialects of the Akkadian, and both contain a flood account. While there are differences between the original Sumerian and later Babylonian and Assyrian flood accounts, many of the similarities are strikingly close to the Genesis flood account.5 The Babylonian account is the most intact, with only seven of 205 lines missing.6 It was also the first discovered, making it the most studied of the early flood accounts.

    The Epic of Gilgamesh is contained on twelve large tablets, and since the original discovery, it has been found on others, as well as having been translated into other early languages.7 The actual tablets date back to around 650 B.C. and are obviously not originals since fragments of the flood story have been found on tablets dated around 2,000 B.C.8 Linguistic experts believe that the story was composed well before 2,000 B.C. compiled from material that was much older than that date.9 The Sumerian cuneiform writing has been estimated to go as far back as 3,300 B.C.10

    The Story

    The Epic was composed in the form of a poem. The main figure is Gilgamesh, who actually may have been an historical person. The Sumerian King List shows Gilgamesh in the first dynasty of Uruk reigning for 126 years.11 This length of time is not a problem when compared with the age of the pre-flood patriarchs of the Bible. Indeed, after Gilgamesh, the kings lived a normal life span as compared with today.12 The King List is also of interest as it mentions the flood specifically—"the deluge overthrew the land."13

    The story starts by introducing the deeds of the hero Gilgamesh. He was one who had great knowledge and wisdom, and preserved information of the days before the flood. Gilgamesh wrote on tablets of stone all that he had done, including building the city walls of Uruk and its temple for Eanna. He was an oppressive ruler, however, which caused his subjects to cry out to the "gods" to create a nemesis to cause Gilgamesh strife.14

    After one fight, this nemesis—Enkidu—became best friends with Gilgamesh. The two set off to win fame by going on many dangerous adventures in which Enkidu is eventually killed. Gilgamesh then determines to find immortality since he now fears death. It is upon this search that he meets Utnapishtim, the character most like the Biblical Noah.15

    In brief, Utnapishtim had become immortal after building a ship to weather the Great Deluge that destroyed mankind. He brought all of his relatives and all species of creatures aboard the vessel. Utnapishtim released birds to find land, and the ship landed upon a mountain after the flood. The story then ends with tales of Enkidu's visit to the underworld.16 Even though many similarities exist between the two accounts, there still are serious differences.

    The table below presents a comparison of the main aspects of the two accounts of the flood as presented in the Book of Genesis and in the Epic of Gilgamesh.

    COMPARISON OF GENESIS AND GILGAMESH

    GENESIS

    GILGAMESH

    Extent of flood Global Global
    Cause Man's wickedness Man's sins
    Intended for whom? All mankind One city & all mankind
    Sender Yahweh Assembly of "gods"
    Name of hero Noah Utnapishtim
    Hero's character Righteous Righteous
    Means of announcement Direct from God In a dream
    Ordered to build boat? Yes Yes
    Did hero complain? Yes Yes
    Height of boat Several stories (3) Several stories (6)
    Compartments inside? Many Many
    Doors One One
    Windows At least one At least one
    Outside coating Pitch Pitch
    Shape of boat Rectangular Square
    Human passengers Family members only Family & few others
    Other passengers All species of animals All species of animals
    Means of flood Ground water & heavy rain Heavy rain
    Duration of flood Long (40 days & nights plus) Short (6 days & nights)
    Test to find land Release of birds Release of birds
    Types of birds Raven & three doves Dove, swallow, raven
    Ark landing spot Mountain -- Mt. Ararat Mountain -- Mt. Nisir
    Sacrificed after flood? Yes, by Noah Yes, by Utnapishtim
    Blessed after flood? Yes Yes
    Some comments need to be made about the comparisons in the table. Some of the similarities are very striking, while others are very general. The command for Utnapishtim to build the boat is remarkable: "O man of Shuruppak, son of Ubar-Tutu, tear down thy house, build a ship; abandon wealth, seek after life; scorn possessions, save thy life. Bring up the seed of all kinds of living things into the ship which thou shalt build. Let its dimensions be well measured."17 The cause of the flood as sent in judgment on man's sins is striking also. The eleventh tablet, line 180 reads, "Lay upon the sinner his sin; lay upon the transgressor his transgression."18 A study of these parallels to Genesis 6-9, as well as the many others, demonstrate the non-coincidental nature of these similarities.

    The meanings of the names of the heroes, however, have absolutely no common root or connection. Noah means "rest," while Utnapishtim means "finder of life."19 Neither was perfect, but both were considered righteous and relatively faultless compared to those around them.

    Utnapishtim also took a pilot for the boat, and some craftsmen, not just his family in the ark. It is also interesting that both accounts trace the landing spot to the same general region of the Middle East; however, Mt. Ararat and Mt. Nisir are about 300 miles apart. The blessing that each hero received after the flood was also quite different. Utnapishtim was granted eternal life while Noah was to multiply and fill the earth and have dominion over the animals.

    Conclusions

    From the early days of the comparative study of these two flood accounts, it has been generally agreed that there is an obvious relationship. The widespread nature of flood traditions throughout the entire human race is excellent evidence for the existence of a great flood from a legal/historical point of view.20 Dating of the oldest fragments of the Gilgamesh account originally indicated that it was older than the assumed dating of Genesis.21 However, the probability exists that the Biblical account had been preserved either as an oral tradition, or in written form handed down from Noah, through the patriarchs and eventually to Moses, thereby making it actually older than the Sumerian accounts which were restatements (with alterations) to the original.

    A popular theory, proposed by liberal "scholars," said that the Hebrews "borrowed" from the Babylonians, but no conclusive proof has ever been offered.22 The differences, including religious, ethical, and sheer quantity of details, make it unlikely that the Biblical account was dependent on any extant source from the Sumerian traditions. This still does not stop these liberal and secular scholars from advocating such a theory. The most accepted theory among evangelicals is that both have one common source, predating all the Sumerian forms.23 The divine inspiration of the Bible would demand that the Genesis account is the correct version. Indeed the Hebrews were known for handing down their records and tradition.24 The Book of Genesis is viewed for the most part as an historical work, even by many liberal scholars, while the Epic of Gilgamesh is viewed as mythological. The One-source Theory must, therefore, lead back to the historical event of the Flood and Noah's Ark.25 To those who believe in the inspiration and infallibility of the Bible, it should not be a surprise that God would preserve the true account of the Flood in the traditions of His people. The Genesis account was kept pure and accurate throughout the centuries by the providence of God until it was finally compiled, edited, and written down by Moses.26 The Epic of Gilgamesh, then, contains the corrupted account as preserved and embellished by peoples who did not follow the God of the Hebrews.

    REFERENCES

    Keller, Werner, The Bible as History, (New York: William Morrow and Company, 1956), p. 32.
    Sanders, N.K., The Epic of Gilgamesh ,(an English translation with introduction) (London: Penguin Books, 1964), p. 9.
    Graves, Robert, The Creek Myths, Volume 1,(London: Penguin Books, 1960), pp. 138-143.
    Rehwinkel, Alfred M., The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing, 1951), p. 129.
    O'Brien, J. Randall, "Flood Stories of the Ancient Near East", Biblical Illustrator, (Fall 1986, volume 13, number 1), p. 61.
    Barton, George A., Archaeology and the Bible, (Philadelphia: American Sunday School Union, 1916), pp. 273-277
    Keller, The Bible as History, p. 33.
    Whitcomb, John C. and Morris, Henry M., The Genesis Flood, (Phillipsburg: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1961), p. 38.
    Heidel, Alexander, The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament Parallels, (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1949), p. 13.
    O'Brien, "Flood Stories of the Ancient Near East", p. 61.
    Heidel, The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament Parallel, p. 13.
    Sanders, The Epic of Gilgamesh, p. 21.
    Vos, Howard F., Genesis and Archaeology, (Chicago: Moody Press, 1963), p. 35.
    Sanders, The Epic of Gilgamesh, pp. 20-23.
    Ibid., pp. 30 39.
    Ibid., pp. 39-42.
    The Bible as History, p. 33.
    Sanders, The Epic of Gilgamesh, p. 109.
    O'Brien, "Flood Stories of the Ancient Near East", pp. 62, 63.
    Morris, Henry M., Science and the Bible, (Chicago: Moody Press, 1986), p. 85.
    O'Brien, "Flood Stories of the Ancient Near East", p. 64.
    Ibid.
    Ibid.
    Morris, Science and the Bible, p. 92.
    Ibid., p. 85.
    Whitcomb, John C., The Early Earth (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1986), p. 134; Whitcomb and Morris, The Genesis Flood, p. 488.
    * Mr. Lorey is a Registered Historical Archaeologist.
    (more)
  • Yo'Adri... evangel... 2012/09/11 20:41:39
    Yo'Adrienne..AFCL
    +1
    It's amazing..isn't it??? I am enthralled.....and want to learn more!
  • Mungu evangel... 2012/09/11 20:46:13
    Mungu
    If one group of folk wrote something down one thousand years before another folk, it's also probable that they had the oral tradition for generations before they learned how to write themselves.
  • stevmackey 2012/09/11 19:50:37 (edited)
    Coincidence
    stevmackey
    +2
    Both peoples lived at the same time. They share a lot of history. The Sumerians caught the entrance of a asteroids at the time of Sodom and Gomorrah. It was documented on a disk. The Sumerians were some of the first astronomers.
  • Mungu stevmackey 2012/09/11 19:52:58 (edited)
    Mungu
    +1
    No they didn't. The Sumerians were around at least one thousand years before there was such a people as "Hebrew".
  • stevmackey Mungu 2012/09/11 19:54:51
    stevmackey
    +1
    Then argue with the Discovery Channel.
  • Mungu stevmackey 2012/09/11 19:56:59
    Mungu
    +1
    The Discovery channel! They told you the Hebrews were around at the same time as the Sumerians? Stop watching them. They have done some bogus programs before. If they are the same company that produce the "Discovery" magazine, I know they are bogus.
  • stevmackey Mungu 2012/09/11 20:06:28
    stevmackey
    +2
    Then they showed a bogus Sumerian disk.
  • Mungu stevmackey 2012/09/11 20:55:09
    Mungu
    +1
    There is very little authentic or non "reconstructed" ancient art on television.

    As an example:
    before
    oldoldold
    after
    copycopycopy
  • JMCC 2012/09/11 19:38:41
    None of the above
    JMCC
    +1
    History has a habit of repeating itself as man seems to have to make the same mistakes and learn from them over and over again.

    Similar situations beget similar outcomes, only the actors change, The real folly of man is that we keep on writing it down and documenting it so that our ancestors don't make the same mistakes and not paying attention what was written for us.
  • Transquesta 2012/09/11 19:33:13 (edited)
    None of the above
    Transquesta
    +1
    Among other functions myths attempt to describe/explain unusual or historically significant phenomena or events. I think the word 'synopsis' best applies here. Two cultures recording more or less the same events are bound to have similar mythologies. Take the myriad accounts of the 'great flood,' for instance. The more divergent cultures and mythologies attempt to describe or chronicle a common event, the greater the likelihood (to me, anyway) that such an event took place or was readily observable across cultures.
  • Mungu Transqu... 2012/09/11 19:43:48 (edited)
    Mungu
    +1
    ok, but still the original flood story of Sumerian origin was written at least in the 3rd dynasty of Ur (2150 - 2000 BC)

    The Torah was written no earlier than 900BC.
  • Transqu... Mungu 2012/09/11 19:58:53 (edited)
    Transquesta
    +1
    If you're asking me whether I consider segmented plagiarism more likely than not insofar as biblical/Hebraic texts are concerned, my best answer is perhaps. Then again it could be the authors' best attempt to describe historical events and people which he didn't personally witness or know.

    Perhaps an example would help. Take Abraham Lincoln. You're writing a biography about the life and times of old Abe, including a narrative of all the things he did from the time he was a rug rat to when he got ventilated in Ford's Theater. Prior to writing your time you'll doubtless study the man using all available research including the personal testimony of putative experts and maybe even a handful of REALLY old individuals who got second or third-hand accounts. No matter how hard you try to be original, your efforts will take on the 'color' of all previous information which you've learned about the man. To that extent you will have 'copied' or 'plagiarized' somebody else's work. As such relates to historical accounts or narratives, at a certain point it becomes virtually impossible NOT to 'plagiarize.'
  • Mungu Transqu... 2012/09/11 20:07:56
    Mungu
    +1
    That's fair enough.

    btw, I don't assume that there could not have been others before Sumerians who wrote of similar tales that we have lost and forgotten. Certainly older stories were told, and not written.
  • Transqu... Mungu 2012/09/11 20:27:59
    Transquesta
    This touches on one of humanity's most vexing problems: temporal amnesia. There is more than a smattering of evidence which suggests that as many as TEN highly technological/enlightened ages have gone before this one.

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