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The Death Penalty: Yay or Nay?

Elmo~WAWU~Bn-2~ 2012/06/26 18:43:14
Related Topics: Death Penalty, Death
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  • Pele Emerging 2012/06/26 19:45:09
    Undecided
    Pele Emerging
    +2
    The way the justice system works, with all the mandatory appeals, it is more expensive to execute someone than to imprison them for life. Also, we know that we've executed innocent people. I would rather err on the side of life. It's a little hard to say to someone who's been executed for a crime he/she did not commit, that you're sorry that you now have DNA evidence that they didn't do it.

    The one exception I would make is for true monsters, like Ted Bundy. Ted escaped from prison and killed again. He nearly escaped death row in a maximum security prison in Florida before he was finally executed. No more women have died at his hand.
  • Headhunter 13 2012/06/26 19:43:56
    Yay
    Headhunter 13
    +2
    There are definite cases for it. I say this as someone who had a family member murdered. Shot in the head while being robbed by 3 guys. The trigger man did 3 years including the time waiting for trial and 2 years after he got out he murdered someone else. The other 2 did 11/22 year and the last one 6 months because they decided it was not worth extraditing him from CA.
  • Deborah... Headhun... 2012/06/27 01:35:51
    DeborahLakeHelen
    +2
    That POS should have been exterminated after the first time!
  • Sister Jean 2012/06/26 19:34:47
    Undecided
    Sister Jean
    +3
    depends on crime
  • mrdog 2012/06/26 19:21:02
    Yay
    mrdog
    +2
    Prefer hanging in the town square...bark
  • Sparky mrdog 2012/06/26 21:11:41
  • Deborah... Sparky 2012/06/27 01:37:01
    DeborahLakeHelen
    After they're taken for a scrape down a freshly poured gravel road behind a fast, mean horse?
  • Deep007 2012/06/26 19:20:32
    Yay
    Deep007
    +1
    oh YES
  • Herb 2012/06/26 19:18:08
    Yay
    Herb
    +2
    people like serial killers dont deserve to live. like dalmer or the son of sam etc.
  • Little Angel 2012/06/26 19:14:40
    Nay
    Little Angel
    +2
    Only God has the right for final judgement.
    If a criminal is really evil...just put him in
    Solitaire!
  • Deep007 Little ... 2012/06/26 19:22:22
    Deep007
    +1
    A stupid atheist references God...LMAO...
  • Little ... Deep007 2012/06/26 19:36:39 (edited)
    Little Angel
    +3
    I am not an atheist! You must be another one of those "Christians"
    who are a eager to kill people in wars too! I consider myself a
    Christian but really can't believe that a God of Love and
    Forgiveness would want humans to kill so easily. Of course
    the killer did take a life but I would not want to be the one to
    judge him.
  • Herb Little ... 2012/06/28 22:20:39
    Herb
    Biblical History of Execution

    In the first crime in the Bible, Cain murdered his brother Abel. Cain intuitively believed that everyone would think themselves justified in executing a murderer.

    "It will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me." Gen. 4:14
    So God forbade capital punishment:

    "Therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." And the Lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him. Gen. 4:15
    Without the death penalty, lawlessness reigned on earth:

    So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. And God said to Noah, "The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them..." Gen. 6:12-13
    Within ten verses of the account of Noah's departure from the ark, God instituted the death penalty. Interestingly, the first three commands given to man after the flood parallel the very first three commands given to man before the flood.

    Before the Flood After the Flood
    1st Command:
    "Be fruitful and multiply... have dominion... over every living thing that moves on the earth." Gen. 1:28
    1st Command:
    "Be fruitful and multiply... And the fear of you... shall be... on all that move on the earth..." Gen. 9:1-2

    2...

















































































































































































    Biblical History of Execution

    In the first crime in the Bible, Cain murdered his brother Abel. Cain intuitively believed that everyone would think themselves justified in executing a murderer.

    "It will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me." Gen. 4:14
    So God forbade capital punishment:

    "Therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." And the Lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him. Gen. 4:15
    Without the death penalty, lawlessness reigned on earth:

    So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. And God said to Noah, "The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them..." Gen. 6:12-13
    Within ten verses of the account of Noah's departure from the ark, God instituted the death penalty. Interestingly, the first three commands given to man after the flood parallel the very first three commands given to man before the flood.

    Before the Flood After the Flood
    1st Command:
    "Be fruitful and multiply... have dominion... over every living thing that moves on the earth." Gen. 1:28
    1st Command:
    "Be fruitful and multiply... And the fear of you... shall be... on all that move on the earth..." Gen. 9:1-2

    2nd Command:
    "Of every tree... you may freely eat; but... of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat..." Gen. 1:29
    2nd Command"
    "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you... But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is its blood." Gen. 9:3-4

    3rd Command (Death penalty forbidden):
    "Whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." Gen. 4:15
    3rd Command: (Death penalty commanded):
    "Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed... Gen. 9:6




    These were the only three commands given to mankind before the flood, and the only three commands given to mankind after the flood and before Israel's covenant of circumcision.

    Thou Shalt Not Kill

    The rendering of the sixth commandment in the King James was very unfortunate. "Thou shalt not kill" in recent versions (like the NKJV, NIV, RSV, ASB, NASB, etc.) is accurately translated "You shall not murder" (Ex. 20:13). In Hebrew, as in English, the words for "murder" and "kill" can be used interchangeably, but their different meanings are easily understood from the context.

    The Hebrew word for murder (ratsach, which appears in Ex. 20:13) is translated by the King James as murder/murderer 17 times, slayer/slain/slayeth 21 times, kill/killing 6 times, manslayer 2 times, and death once. The Hebrew word for kill (which appears in Ex. 13:15-harag) is translated by the King James as slay/slayer/slain 132 times, as kill 27 times, murder/murderer 3 times, destroyed once, out of hand once, and made/put/surely 3 times.

    The Ten Commandments forbid murder, not killing1. The chapter following the giving of the Ten Commandments has a number of commands from God to execute criminals, including:

    "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death." Ex. 21:12
    "He who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death." Ex. 21:15
    "He who kidnaps a man... shall surely be put to death." Ex. 21:16
    "He who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death." Ex. 21:17
    "[If an unborn baby is killed] you shall give life for life." Ex. 21:23
    It is not plausible to suppose that God contradicted Himself just a few sentences after delivering the Ten Commandments to Moses. Clearly God prohibited murder but insisted upon execution of murderers and others. Some Christians, however, are so influenced by the world's philosophy that they are ashamed of the Lord's own words in Exodus 21. Others talk as though God was a bad God in the Old Testament but that now in the New, He is a much nicer God, as though He has gone through a rite of passage.

    God forbid murder, and commanded the lawful execution of murderers.

    Execution Not Optional

    As punishment for murder, the death penalty was applicable to each and every murderer:

    "Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death.... You shall have the same law for the [foreigner] and for one from your own country; for I am the Lord your God." Lev. 24:17-22
    The death penalty was not a maximum penalty, nor was it optional. As the Lord said:

    'Moreover you shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death... So you shall not pollute the land where you are; for blood defiles the land, and no atonement can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it.' Num. 35:31-33
    Did God change this law in the New Testament? Consider that Jesus supports the death penalty in Matthew and Mark, and so does John in Revelation, and Paul in Acts and Romans, as does the book of Hebrews.

    Jesus Supports Capital Punishment

    Jesus affirmed the Mosaic Law even to the keeping of the "least of these commandments" (Mat. 5:17-19). He blasted the Pharisees for giving their own ideas precedence over God's commands:

    "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? For God commanded, saying... `He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' But you say..." Mat. 15:3-4
    "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men..." [Jesus] said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother; and 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' But you say..." Mark 7:8-11
    Jesus reaffirmed the capital statutes of God's law. Not only the murderer (Rev. 13:10; 1 Tim. 1:8-9; Rom. 13:4), but even the one who curses a parent must be put to death (Ex. 21:17 and Lev. 20:9) just as God commanded. God's commands to execute the one who strikes or curses a parent are the death penalty statutes that liberal Christians are the most embarrassed over. However, Christ was not at all embarrassed over His Fathers commands. Jesus repeated these commands without caveat or reservation.

    Laying aside the commands of God has its consequences. In America, murder has become the number one cause of death among young black males, and suicide is the number three cause of death among all teenagers. There is a death penalty when children disrespect their parents. If Jesus' telling of God's command is ignored, countless children will die terrible deaths at the hands of other children and by their own hands. On the other hand, if God's command were enforced, rather than ridiculed, the shedding of innocent blood would virtually disappear in our land. God's wisdom would save thousands of children. man's wisdom destroys them.

    While Jesus was on the cross the Romans inflicted the death penalty on the two criminals2 next to Him. Christ said nothing in their defense, or against their crucifixions. One of those two mocked Christ. In response, the other criminal (whom Jesus would immediately declare righteous, Luke 23:43) said of their punishments, "we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong" (Luke 23:41). What did this forgiven criminal, this newly justified man, say about the death penalty? Bottom line: the criminals were getting their just punishment. The dying criminal knew the truth, as he said, "we indeed" are "justly" punished.

    Revelation Supports Capital Punishment

    The angels in heaven also recognize the principle of just punishment.

    And I heard the angel of the waters saying: "You are righteous, O Lord... because You have judged these things. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. For it is their just due." Rev. 16:5-6
    God will equip the two witnesses of Revelation 11 to execute those trying to harm them.

    And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. Rev. 11:5
    The Apostle John also taught that you reap what you sow:

    ...he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Rev. 13:10
    Paul Supports Capital Punishment

    The Apostle Paul did not object to the death penalty. He knew his rights as a Roman citizen and defended them. Yet while on trial, he volunteered the following endorsement of capital punishment to Porcius Festus, Governor in Caesarea:

    "For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar." Acts 25:11
    Then Festus, when he had conferred with the council, answered, "You have appealed to Caesar? To Caesar you shall go!" Acts 25:12
    Vengeance is inherently good. God said, "Vengeance is Mine." Individuals, however, are not to avenge themselves, but are to allow God to avenge in His way:

    Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. Rom. 12:19 (see also Lev. 19:18)
    While Paul instructs people not to seek their own revenge, but to "give place to wrath." Paul then explains that the proper channel for wrath is the "governing authorities." The government is the "place" for wrath and vengeance:

    Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities... For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Rom. 13:1, 3
    Godly rulers are a terror to evil doers. Note that God's two witnesses in Revelation "tormented those who dwell on the earth" (Rev. 11:10).

    God through Paul specifically commands earthly governments to execute criminals with the sword:

    For [the governing authority] is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Rom. 13:4
    A sword is not used for scourging but for killing.

    Paul instructs believers to "not avenge" themselves, "but rather give place to wrath." Governments are the place for wrath for they are "God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath." Individuals have one role, governments have another. Individuals do not avenge themselves, the government does. Believers forgive3, governments execute. So, if the governing authorities are to obey God, they must not bear the sword in vain but execute wrath on the criminal, for they are God's minister to avenge and bring terror on him who practices evil. Thus God commanded execution in large part to meet out vengeance against capital criminals.

    Hebrews Supports Capital Punishment

    The author of the book of Hebrews also supports the death penalty. The certainty of punishment under the Mosaic law proves the certainty of punishment for rejecting Jesus Christ:

    Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies (present tense) without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot... Heb. 10:28-29
    Temporal punishment through the law teaches men of the certainty of God's eternal punishment. If the government neglects the death penalty, then the people will scoff at the second death (Rev. 2:11; Rev. 20:6, Rev. 20:12-14; Rev. 21:8).

    Be afraid of the sword for yourselves; for wrath brings the punishment of the sword, that you may know there is a judgment. Job 19:29
    The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance... So that men will say, "Surely there is a reward for the righteous; Surely He is God who judges in the earth." Ps. 58:10-11
    Further, showing mercy to the wicked does not produce repentance. As Isaiah wrote:

    Let grace be shown to the wicked, yet he will not learn righteousness... Isa. 26:10
    And as the proverb states:

    A man of great wrath will suffer punishment; for if you rescue him, you will have to do it again. Prov. 19:19
    While the Old and New Testaments strongly support the death penalty, some Christians think Jesus repealed capital punishment during an event that John described in his Gospel.

    The Woman Caught In Adultery

    Does the story of the woman caught in adultery, forgiven and released (John 8:3-11) negate the death penalty?

    God Forgave Adulterers Before

    Gomer was an adulteress yet God forgave her (Hos. 3:1). Still, He demanded that His people obey His law (Hos. 4:6).

    King David committed adultery and murder (2 Sam. 11). Yet God forgave him (Psalm 32:1-5).

    It was a conscious decision on God's part to not execute David. As Nathan said to David:

    As Nathan said to David:

    "The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However... by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme..." 2 Sam. 12:13
    Still, God's law remained in effect (Ps. 1:2; 19:7; 78:1, 5-8; 89:30-32; 119).

    God forgave the New Testament adulterer just as He forgave Old Testament adulterers, in neither instance revoking His law. God has all authority to forgive the criminal and disregard temporal punishment. Contrariwise, Men must obey God and cannot ignore punishment.

    The Pharisees Wanted to Trap Christ

    The Pharisees wanted to accuse Jesus of rebelling against the Roman Empire:

    This [the Pharisees] said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. John 8:6
    Rome had revoked the Jews' authority to put a criminal to death (John 18:31). A straight-forward answer to the Pharisees would have brought Jesus into premature conflict with Rome before His "hour had come." Jesus solved this problem stating, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first" (John 8:7). Christ often frustrated the Pharisees giving clever answers that thwarted their wicked intentions (Mat. 22:15-22; 21:21-27; Mark 12:13-17; Luke 20:20-26).

    Jesus Did Not Repeal The Law

    Without the law, lawlessness cannot exist. Yet as Christ said, "because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold" (Mat. 24:12). Christ will throw "those who practice lawlessness... into the furnace of fire" (Mat. 13:41-42).

    Jesus was born under the Old Testament law:

    ...God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law. Gal. 4:4
    The Mosaic law was still in effect in the New Testament according to Jesus:

    "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets... Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great..." Mat. 5:17-19
    And Jesus said to him, "See that you tell no one; but go your way, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded as a testimony to them." Mat. 8:4
    "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do..." Mat. 23:2-3
    [Jesus said,] "Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? ... Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?" John 7:19-23
    Some argue that all this changed after the resurrection. Yet after His resurrection, Jesus said:

    "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you." Mat. 28:19-20
    And years later, "James and all the elders" said to Paul:

    "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law." Acts 21:20
    Paul Used The Law

    Paul teaches that the unrepentant world is still under the law, and that the law is designed to show guilt and to bring people to Christ:

    But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless... and for sinners... for murderers... for sodomites, for kidnappers, for perjurers... 1 Tim. 1:8-10
    All the world is under the law:

    Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God... Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Rom. 3:19, 31
    Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. Gal. 3:24-25
    Christians who are untutored in the evangelistic role of the law oppose the foundation of the criminal code upon God's law.

    Turn the Other Cheek

    "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." Mat. 5:38-39
    Pacifists have an unworkable interpretation of this passage. Imagine applying the pacifist view to a woman being raped? Does a father tell his daughter to not resist the rapist? Pacifist father to daughter being raped: "Don't resist the evil man, honey. Remember, Jesus said, 'Love your enemy.' If he wants you for one hour, stay with him two."

    Rather, this teaching is similar to Paul's teaching, "Do not avenge yourselves," knowing that the government is to bring wrath and vengeance against the perpetrator. The command to not avail oneself of "an-eye-for-an-eye" is not a strictly New Testament concept. Many falsely presume that this is a New Testament teaching which opposes Old Testament teachings. However, the command to avoid personal vengeance was just as applicable to Old Testament believers as to us. "Do not say, 'I will do to him just as he has done to me; I will render to the man according to his work" (Prov. 24:29). Graciousness from the believer in his personal life is an enduring virtue and not a new concept.

    Further, a slap "on your right cheek" would normally be a back-handed slap such as an insult. A punch to the face would usually land on the left cheek, as most men are right-handed Thus Jesus was not talking about a full-fledged violent attack, an attempted murder or a rape.

    Jesus was not here repealing the Mosaic law, but was teaching patience, forgiveness, and self control for the individual.

    It Is Personal, Not Governmental

    The Sermon on the Mount (Mat. 5-7) does not lay down rules for governments but principles for an upright heart.

    "Blessed are the poor in spirit... You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder'... But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of the judgment... Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way... I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Mat. 5:3-28
    In this very sermon Jesus made the distinction between individuals and governments:

    "Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny. Mat. 5:25-26
    Jesus did not tell the judge or the officer to turn the other cheek or to void the law. God wants the governing authorities to uphold the law without mercy (Heb. 10:28; Rom. 13:3-4).
    (more)
  • Little ... Herb 2012/06/28 23:40:46 (edited)
    Little Angel
    +1
    There is nothing I dislike more than someone who quotes Bible verses out
    of content to prove a point. That really makes you look stupid in my eyes.
    I have read the entire Bible from front to the end(Old Testament & New
    Testament) and made a report on it in College. I received an A+ and
    this was a Christian Bible College.
    So I will never debate anything about the Bible because I don't have
    the time to try to educate people on SH.
  • Herb Little ... 2012/06/29 00:12:05 (edited)
    Herb
    i'm taking theology been studing since i was 16 im 44 now been a long time decided to to online study to get my theology major. i can debate theology all day long. don't feel scared. oh and dear thats from many pastors on the view. another pastors view take all these pastor wih years of trining are wrong to huh. pat roberson says the bible supports it again are all the pastors wrong. they have more experience with the bible then us.
    http://www.christianity.com/p...
    http://www.logosresourcepages...
    http://www.theologyonline.com...

    Beyond all this evidence that Jesus affirms the consistent biblical principle of capital punishment, there is yet one more vital concept to grasp. Christians believe that Christ died on the cross to pay for the sins of us all. Although His sinlessness merited eternal life, He endured the death we deserved to extend that gift to us. As Clark University Professor Michael Pakaluk so perfectly expressed the point, "If no crime deserves the death penalty, then it is hard to see why it was fitting that Christ be put to death for our sins…." If we didn't deserve the death penalty ourselves, then why would Christ need to suffer it on our behalf in order to satisfy the justice of God? Denying the death penalty directly assaults the justice of the Father—the One wh...







    i'm taking theology been studing since i was 16 im 44 now been a long time decided to to online study to get my theology major. i can debate theology all day long. don't feel scared. oh and dear thats from many pastors on the view. another pastors view take all these pastor wih years of trining are wrong to huh. pat roberson says the bible supports it again are all the pastors wrong. they have more experience with the bible then us.
    http://www.christianity.com/p...
    http://www.logosresourcepages...
    http://www.theologyonline.com...

    Beyond all this evidence that Jesus affirms the consistent biblical principle of capital punishment, there is yet one more vital concept to grasp. Christians believe that Christ died on the cross to pay for the sins of us all. Although His sinlessness merited eternal life, He endured the death we deserved to extend that gift to us. As Clark University Professor Michael Pakaluk so perfectly expressed the point, "If no crime deserves the death penalty, then it is hard to see why it was fitting that Christ be put to death for our sins…." If we didn't deserve the death penalty ourselves, then why would Christ need to suffer it on our behalf in order to satisfy the justice of God? Denying the death penalty directly assaults the justice of the Father—the One who required His own Son to pay precisely that price in our stead.

    What about the rest of the New Testament?

    Since both Jesus' teaching and His death affirm capital punishment, it should come as no surprise that the rest of the New Testament reinforces this view.

    When confronting Governor Festus, Paul says in Acts 25:11, "If I am a wrongdoer, and have committed anything worthy of death, I do not refuse to die; but if none of these things is true of which these men accuse me, no one can hand me over to them." He both affirms capital statutes and accepts them as binding on him if he has broken one. Later, in the New Testament's most famous passage on the nature of government, Paul explains, "But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for [the government] does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil" (Romans 13:4). Finally, the same Bible which begins in Genesis 9:6 with the establishment of capital punishment, carries the theme consistently throughout the text, and ends by reiterating it in Revelation 13:10, "If any one is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if any one kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints."

    Literally from beginning to end, the Bible teaches that capital punishment is authorized and required by God. If so, then why do so many people claim to oppose this practice on religious grounds? We'll consider some of their objections in the next column.
    (more)
  • Little ... Herb 2012/06/29 14:55:42
    Little Angel
    +1
    I will not debate my beliefs based on extensive research with you
    or anyone else. I attended College and learned my faith in God
    did not mean that I needed to attend a Church to pray or
    worship God. My beliefs are more spiritual.
  • Herb Little ... 2012/06/29 15:08:03
    Herb
    so you dont take the bible or pastors with many years of study of the bible at their word. or the word of god in the old testiment or new from paul.
    we have to rightly divide the word not just the good there is some bad in there to. just like there is a heaven and a hell.
  • BUCCANE... Deep007 2012/06/26 19:38:15
    BUCCANEER~POTL~PWCM~JLA
    +1
    And a believer meets him
  • Little ... BUCCANE... 2012/06/26 21:45:43
    Little Angel
    +2
    I believe in God and my understanding of Him is that
    he is a God who forgives all sinners who ask His
    forgiveness. So sad ....all the wars fought by those
    who say they are Christians.
  • Sparky Little ... 2012/06/27 12:47:53
  • Herb Little ... 2012/06/26 19:22:42
    Herb
    +2
    cant dear he has live will general population



    Dirty Dozen: America's 12 Worst Serial Killers


    Charles Manson's mug shot



    Where has humanity gone wrong?




    Serial killers are largely a product of modern times. There’s something about packing people close together in a highly technological setting that turns some folks into heartless murderers. Strangely, most serial killers have done their dirty work - perhaps three-quarters of the estimated world total - in the United States. Is it the relative freedom found in this country? Or the large number of cars, which give serial killers needed mobility?

    Regardless of what makes a serial killer, why make a list of them? One reason is morbid fascination - the same reason people line up to see horror movies or rubber-neck at automobile accidents. Moreover, people have always been captivated by death, because we’re all headed that way, sooner or later. Of course, those aforementioned dastardly guys and gals don’t need to press the issue, do they?

    Incidentally, this article won’t present the grisly details of murders or the names of victims; books, documentaries or articles on the Internet can provide plenty of that. The purpose of this article is to point out each killer’s gruesome legacy and not necessarily body counts.

    One very good book on ...



















































    cant dear he has live will general population



    Dirty Dozen: America's 12 Worst Serial Killers


    Charles Manson's mug shot



    Where has humanity gone wrong?




    Serial killers are largely a product of modern times. There’s something about packing people close together in a highly technological setting that turns some folks into heartless murderers. Strangely, most serial killers have done their dirty work - perhaps three-quarters of the estimated world total - in the United States. Is it the relative freedom found in this country? Or the large number of cars, which give serial killers needed mobility?

    Regardless of what makes a serial killer, why make a list of them? One reason is morbid fascination - the same reason people line up to see horror movies or rubber-neck at automobile accidents. Moreover, people have always been captivated by death, because we’re all headed that way, sooner or later. Of course, those aforementioned dastardly guys and gals don’t need to press the issue, do they?

    Incidentally, this article won’t present the grisly details of murders or the names of victims; books, documentaries or articles on the Internet can provide plenty of that. The purpose of this article is to point out each killer’s gruesome legacy and not necessarily body counts.

    One very good book on the subject is entitled Serial Killers: The Stories of History’s Most Evil Murderers by Brian Innes, who wrote, “Serial killers are not monsters: they are human beings with tortured souls. The motive is intrinsic, an irresistible compulsion, fueled by fantasy, which may lead to torture, and/or sexual abuse, mutilation and necrophilia.”

    (Unless otherwise noted, all quotes in this article come from Innes’ book.)



    Now let’s read the list of the Dirty Dozen: America’s 12 Worst Serial Killers:



    1. Carl Panzram may have been one of history’s first identified sociopaths. This man showed no conscience or compassion and never expressed the slightest regret for murdering 21 human beings. Panzram’s trouble started at the age of eight when he was arrested for drunk and disorderly conduct. Then, at a reform school, Panzram drew a loaded pistol on a teacher and pulled the trigger - but the gun didn’t go off. While awaiting execution by hanging, Panzram wrote, “If in the beginning I had been treated as well as I am now, then there wouldn’t have been so many people in this world that have been robbed, raped and killed.” In 1930, when about to have his neck stretched, Panzram said, “Hurry it up, you Hoosier bastard. I could hang a dozen men while you’re fooling around.”



    2. Edward Theodore Gein was a grave robber and murderer whose foul deeds inspired some of the most frightening characters in horror films. Gein was a mama’s boy who also wanted to be a woman. He robbed nearby cemeteries and murdered women for body parts, so he could “dress himself up” to resemble a woman. When the police caught up with Gein, they discovered that his house was a slaughterhouse and morgue, body parts scattered everywhere. Gein’s evil exploits led to the movies Psycho, Deranged, Silence of the Lambs and others. Gein’s ghoulish ways also became part of Mid-West mythology in the middle 1950s. Mothers told their children: “Don’t go down to the river or play on the railroad tracks. Ed Gein will get you.” Gein’s influence on popular culture may be the greatest of the serial killers.


    3. Charles Manson had a terrible childhood like most serial killers. He had no known father and his mother was a criminal who eventually rejected her son. Manson spent almost all of his early years in reform school or jail. But when Charlie got into his thirties he became a guitar-strumming hippie with charisma. Fancying himself a kind of messiah, Charlie eventually formed a kind of “family" out in the desert, brainwashing his hippie followers while they tripped on LSD. Then he sent them – mostly women – on a murderous campaign in L.A., hoping to start a race war he called Helter Skelter. Once busted, the shocking tale of the Manson Family became the most sensational trial of the century (Until O.J?). Thereafter, hippies were no longer viewed as innocent flower children banging on tambourines, and LSD wasn’t exactly given a resounding endorsement either. Perhaps Charlie’s most memorable line was “You made me,” when referring to how he thought society had made him what he was.


    4. The Zodiac Killer played games with the authorities by sending letters to the San Francisco Chronicle back in October 1969. In one letter he wrote, “Schoolchildren make nice targets, I think I shall wipe out a school bus some morning.” (His letters had the sign of the zodiac on them, hence his name.) Fortunately, this ultimate bogeyman never carried out this threat. But until perhaps early 1974 Zodiac shot or stabbed numerous young men and women, usually as he found them alone in the country. At times, the Zodiac Killer called the Chronicle on the phone. One time after sending them a cipher in the mail, he said, “Could you print this new cipher on your front page? I get awfully lonely when I am ignored, so lonely I could do my Thing!!!!!! Such letters stopped coming from 1974 to 1978. Perhaps Zodiac was locked up somewhere. The ending in the final letter read, “I am now in control of all things.” Chillingly, the Zodiac Killer was never identified with certainty. Is he or she your next-door neighbor?




    5. Henry Lee Lucas may have been America’s most prolific serial killer, murdering over 200 people, though Lucas confessed to as many as 600! Authorities have eventually concluded that many of Lucas’ claims were exaggeration and/or references to other peoples’ murders. Be that as it may, from 1960, when Lucas murdered his mother, to 1983, he and sometimes accomplice Ottis Toole began murdering people just for the thrill of it. When Lucas was finally apprehended he wrote the sheriff: “I killed for the past 10 years and no-one will believe me. I cannot go on doing this. I also killed the only girl I ever loved.” When Lucas’ wife, Frieda Powell, wanted to confess her sins regarding her knowledge of her husband’s murders, Lucas killed her. Many of Lucas’ murders were substantiated because of the establishment in 1982 of the Violent Criminal Apprehension Program, which, among other things, defined serial murder.


    6. John Wayne Gacy grew up to be a veritable pillar of society in Cook County Chicago. At times, he would appear as “Pogo the Clown,” performing feats of magic for the kiddies. Gacy even considered running for major in Waterloo, Iowa, where he ran in 1964 a string of KFC franchises. Then rumors began circulating of his unusual sexual tastes, such as wife-swapping, prostitution and having sex with teenage boys. Eventually, Gacy began abducting young men with whom he had sex, and then tortured and murdered. In need of a place to dump the corpses, Gacy simply buried them under and around his house. Finally arrested in 1978, Gacy confessed to murdering 33 young men. At his trial, Gacy claimed insanity, attributing his heinous offenses to his alter-ego “Bad Jack,” but this plea only led to his conviction on all counts. Finally, in May 1994 Gacy was executed by lethal injection.


    7. Ted Bundy certainly didn’t resemble your typical serial killer (assuming any of them do, of course). Bundy was good looking, well-dressed, charming and witty. He definitely had what it took to attract women, and this he did to the demise of 40 or more young women in the 1970s, many of them raped, battered and strangled. At times Bundy impersonated a police officer so he could more easily snatch and handcuff his victims. (Other serial killers have used the same ploy.) Once apprehended in 1977, Bundy escaped jail twice and murdered more women until they nabbed him again. Finally convicted of numerous shocking murders, Bundy tried every appeal possible, while confessing to other murders – even those of other serial killers – hoping to save his life, until they finally gave him the “hot seat” in January 1989.


    8. Donald Henry Gaskins was dubbed the redneck Charles Manson, because of his short stature, his exalted sense of self-importance, and because he was locked up often at a young age. First incarcerated at 13 in 1946, Gaskins was raped repeatedly, assaults which almost certainly damaged his psyche. By 1968, Gaskins was a raging psychopath, killing 80 men and women, though he could have killed scores more. Incidentally, along the way, Gaskins also raped and murdered his niece. In the book Final Truth written by Wilton Earl, Gaskins was reported as declaring: “I have walked the same path as God; by taking lives and making others afraid, I became God’s equal. Through my own power I come to my own redemption.” Finally running out of appeals in September 1991, Gaskins had life jolted from him in the electric chair.


    9. Donald Harvey did not come from the dysfunctional family background typical of most serial killers. He was his mother’s pride and joy and a teacher’s pet, though he was also a loner, a common trait for serial murderers. From 1970 onward, working as an orderly or nurse’ aide, Harvey had access to numerous patients, many of whom he either poisoned with cyanide or arsenic, or asphyxiated. Showing a particularly twisted side, Harvey infected some patients with serious diseases and then nursed them back to health. Then in 1978 police searched Harvey’s apartment and found incriminating evidence for his nefarious misdeeds. Harvey was eventually convicted for committing some 70 murders, at which point his mother stated: “My son has always been a good boy.” Harvey’s first parole hearing is scheduled for 2047.

    10. Gary Ridgway became known as the Green River Man, dumping many of his victims’ bodies in or near the Green River around Seattle, Washington. Ridgway began his murderous ways in 1982, strangling a 16-year-old woman. All of his victims were young women and many of them prostitutes. Through the early to middle 1980s, Ridgway became a prime suspect, but the police couldn’t amass enough evidence to bring him to trial; he even passed a polygraph test. But in 1988 the police took a sample of Ridgway’s DNA and soon matched it with that from the bodies of three of his victims, making him one of the first serial killers convicted with the use of forensic DNA evidence. Ridgway confessed to 48 killings but the total could have been as high as 60. He just couldn’t remember for certain.



    11. Aileen Wuornos is the lone woman on this list, though there have been a fair number of female serial killers in American history. Coming from another broken family, Wuornos got pregnant by the age of 15 and soon became a wandering prostitute, hitch-hiking from state to state. From a young age Wuornos developed an obsessive hatred of men and, in a fashion, eventually killed like a man, cutting a swath of terror through Florida with her blazing .22-caliber pistol in 1989 and 1990. Apprehended in early 1991, Wuornos confessed to six homicides, all of them men, though she claimed she had killed them all in self-defense. Wuornos averred that one of the men, Richard Mallory, had raped and beaten her, so she had to defend herself. Nevertheless, the jury didn’t acquit Wuornos, sentencing her to death for the murder of three men. Wuornos died in the electric chair in October 2002. Actress Charlize Theron portrayed Wuornos in the movie, Monster.


    12. Jeffrey Dahmer started out as many serial killers have done by torturing animals. He was also sexually molested as a child, perhaps triggering his subsequent treatment of homosexuals. In 1978, Dahmer killed his first victim, a 19-year-old man he picked up hitch-hiking. Dahmer, a la John Gacy, buried his victims under and around his house, keeping body parts here and there, his depraved mind considering them trophies perhaps. Dahmer also practiced necrophilia with his prey and sometimes engaged in cannibalism as well. In 1991, Dahmer was finally caught and confessed to 17 murders. Once convicted, the court imposed a prison sentence totaling over 1,000 years! Then, in November 1994 while incarcerated, Dahmer was murdered by a fellow inmate. Regarding Dahmer’s gruesome influence on pop culture, one time when miffed by a critic while hosting a program on the Sci-Fi Channel, author Harlan Ellison groused, “I hope Jeffrey Dahmer . . . eats your face!”



    No matter how many people they destroyed, it may do us little good to revile or condemn serial killers, because, after all, we all affect each other’s behavior. Nobody exists in a vacuum. In a sociological sense, Charlie Manson may have been speaking an element of truth when he said, “I’ve killed no one. I’ve ordered no one to be killed. These people who come to you with knives, they’re your children. I didn’t teach them, you did.”

    Regardless of whose fault these murders are, it’s society’s task to find out why they happened, so few if any more serial killers rise from the melting pot and force their murderous cruelty upon us. Since compassion may be the greatest weapon against savagery, keep your eyes on your neighbors and kindness in your hearts. Attention often wins.
    (more)
  • Little ... Herb 2012/06/26 19:31:17
    Little Angel
    +4
    omg
    What a lot of meaningless words! Someone must be bored!
  • Sparky Little ... 2012/06/26 21:12:51
  • Little ... Sparky 2012/06/26 21:41:22
    Little Angel
    +1
    I just do not agree! So let's just agree to disagree.
    You are welcome to your opinion but please
    respect mine. I do no believe in wars either.
    I am also a vegetarian...animals should be
    allowed to live too.
    Peace!
  • Herb Little ... 2012/06/27 01:18:09
    Herb
    +2
    so you saying all the people the guys killed the killers deserver to live?
  • Deborah... Herb 2012/06/27 01:39:28
    DeborahLakeHelen
    +1
    No way! Exterminate them like the vermin they are.
  • Sparky Little ... 2012/06/27 12:50:04
  • Little ... Sparky 2012/06/28 23:50:17
    Little Angel
    +1
    Don't even try to tell me your interpretation of the Bible. I attended
    a Christian Bible College and read the entire Bible. I received an A+
    for my report on the Bible. English was not the language the Bible
    was originally written and it was translated many times before it
    was in English. Somethings do not translate to English and lose
    their entire meaning.
    You have no idea how stupid your last remark is! Animals
    existed before humans and humans are animals but of a
    higher intelligence (sometimes).
  • EpicEvan77~TheAnarchyst 2012/06/26 19:10:02 (edited)
    Yay
    EpicEvan77~TheAnarchyst
    +4
    Yay! DEATH!
  • Elmo~WA... EpicEva... 2012/06/26 20:17:12
    Elmo~WAWU~Bn-2~
    +1
    Dude! CREEPY!
  • EpicEva... Elmo~WA... 2012/06/26 20:20:41
    EpicEvan77~TheAnarchyst
    Meh
  • Elmo~WA... EpicEva... 2012/06/29 07:41:43
    Elmo~WAWU~Bn-2~
    +1
    Death isn't fun.
  • poet4justice 2012/06/26 19:02:07 (edited)
    Yay
    poet4justice
    +4
    but the people who want the person gone must be the one who pull the triger not state official
  • Deep007 poet4ju... 2012/06/26 19:22:40
    Deep007
    i'm for that
  • poet4ju... Deep007 2012/06/26 19:28:32
    poet4justice
    you know why, don't you?
  • Elmo~WA... poet4ju... 2012/06/26 20:18:23
    Elmo~WAWU~Bn-2~
    +2
    Because there's no way most of them would go through with it after months of trial. By the time they'd have to do it, they'd have closure already.
  • poet4ju... Elmo~WA... 2012/06/26 20:34:16
    poet4justice
    +1
    nope that is not reason for my comment, it is that state official represent the people and I am the people, which mean that I kill him and hate to kill who might be innocent. so I am committing the sin. I don't mind passing judgement but I do mind the killing.
  • Sheila poet4ju... 2012/06/28 16:15:01
    Sheila
    Execution of a criminal after a trial is NOT a sin. Read up.
  • poet4ju... Sheila 2012/06/29 05:14:18
    poet4justice
    yes it is when you are killing the innocent. like i said .... i dont mind passing judgment but the trigger must be on the hand of the petson who want him death.
  • Sheila poet4ju... 2012/07/02 18:09:05
    Sheila
    Convicted is not innocent. Unborn IS and we kill them all the time....

    But There are reasons to put to death a convicted killer and that IS a biblically backed punishment.

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