Should "under God" be taken out of the Pledge of Allegiance?
Incognito
2012/06/20 19:11:13
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12 votes
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11 votes
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Church and state should remain separate. If church becomes part of government, what would the official religion be? Catholicism? Baptists? Muslim?
This country was founded by enlightened men, some of who were atheists, most notably Benjamin Franklin. It is a cornerstone of our democracy. Church and state should remain separate.
This country was founded by enlightened men, some of who were atheists, most notably Benjamin Franklin. It is a cornerstone of our democracy. Church and state should remain separate.


















They wanted to Create A Country that has Freedom of Religion and From Religion and Separation of church and state Something all the founding fathers Agreed on was very important that Government and Church must be kept Separated
or if you dont follow one. Dont SAY "Under God"
i thought all those other groups also believe in god or gods? (spiritual dimensions?)
Fear not my fellow Pagans. Indeed it does! Within Amendment XX, you will find the word "January" which comes from the Latin Janus which refers to our God Janus, the Roman god of doors and gateways. Sunday (mentioned in Article 1, Sec.7) comes from the word Sunne which refers to the Saxon Sun god. March (see Amendment XII), comes from the Latin, Martius, and refers to our Pagan God Mars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
We disagree on the topic, but not trying to attack your opinion in any way.
Thanks.
No. "Under God" should not be taken out of the Pledge of Allegiance. Those that don't wish to say that, aren't forced to do so.
“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.” Who is responsible for “the laws of nature” but God—certainly not man nor nature itself? From the “laws of nature” sprang an awareness of natural law (sometimes called common sense), understood by early philosophers to be a source of higher law that never changes. This was best explained by Cicero, a Roman politician, as early as the 1st Century B. C. —even predating the existence of Christianity when he wrote: “Nor may any other law override it, nor may it be repealed as a whole or in part… Nor is it one thing at Rome and another at Athens, one thing today and another tomorrow, but one eternal and unalterable law, that binds all nations forever.” Of “Nature’s God,” the second reference to deity is, of course, more explicit and needs no explanation.
The third reference to God is the word “creator” found in the second paragraph. “We hold...
“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.” Who is responsible for “the laws of nature” but God—certainly not man nor nature itself? From the “laws of nature” sprang an awareness of natural law (sometimes called common sense), understood by early philosophers to be a source of higher law that never changes. This was best explained by Cicero, a Roman politician, as early as the 1st Century B. C. —even predating the existence of Christianity when he wrote: “Nor may any other law override it, nor may it be repealed as a whole or in part… Nor is it one thing at Rome and another at Athens, one thing today and another tomorrow, but one eternal and unalterable law, that binds all nations forever.” Of “Nature’s God,” the second reference to deity is, of course, more explicit and needs no explanation.
The third reference to God is the word “creator” found in the second paragraph. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” This boldly identified our base for at least three unalienable rights as God, and the Founders identified this truth as self-evident. Any person endowed with common sense or reason would/could come to this conclusion.
So passionate were they with respect to these three “God-given rights” that such was identified as the purpose of government. “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”
Moreover, their right of revolution hinged upon the denial of these “God-given rights.” “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes… But when a long train of abuses and usurpations… evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government and to provide new Guards for their future security.” Once again, an appeal to natural law, which emanates from God, was noted and the loss of which always justifies revolution.
The fourth and fifth references to God are found in the last paragraph. The rightness of our cause was left to God as judge. “We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown…”
The fifth and last reference to God asks for his divine protection in our revolutionary course of action. “And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”
There was no dissent noted with respect to these references to God and their placement or emphasis in this document by any of the participants then, nor should there be now.
Dr. Harold Pease is an expert on the United States Constitution. He has dedicated his career to studying the writings of the Founding Fathers and applying that knowledge to current events. He has taught history and political science from this perspective for over 25 years at Taft College
Source: http://www.libertyunderfire.o...
"Who is responsible for “the laws of nature” but God—certainly not man nor nature itself?" This works from the assumption that God is actually real, and that it is the particular god, goddess or spirit you worship. Since you or no one can prove that their deity is real the entire premise of this counter is flawed. Just saying God exist and pointing to natures' laws which can be perfectly explained without a deity(using Occam's Razor) is not somehow proof of said deity's existence. Saying it is so does not make it so. Which makes you next feeble counter of saying "Once again, an appeal to natural law, which emanates from God,...." fundamentally flawed as it's based off an assumption made without proof itself.
The Constitution says "their Creator" specifically. It does not say "the Creator". This means that the individual decides who "their" creator is. It's entirely subjective and does not denote the Christian...
"Who is responsible for “the laws of nature” but God—certainly not man nor nature itself?" This works from the assumption that God is actually real, and that it is the particular god, goddess or spirit you worship. Since you or no one can prove that their deity is real the entire premise of this counter is flawed. Just saying God exist and pointing to natures' laws which can be perfectly explained without a deity(using Occam's Razor) is not somehow proof of said deity's existence. Saying it is so does not make it so. Which makes you next feeble counter of saying "Once again, an appeal to natural law, which emanates from God,...." fundamentally flawed as it's based off an assumption made without proof itself.
The Constitution says "their Creator" specifically. It does not say "the Creator". This means that the individual decides who "their" creator is. It's entirely subjective and does not denote the Christian God.
The Delcearation holds no legal power nor is it the foundation of our nation's government. Which is the entire base of your arguement. But I do have a document from our government that might interest you.
Article 11. of the Treaty of Tripoli states "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries" This Treaty was signed by the official Congress of our country and the second President John Adams who was a member of the rebellion.
For example, If I want your opinion, like the poster asked for MINE; I'll ASK YOU FOR IT.
Fear not my fellow Pagans. Indeed it does! Within Amendment XX, you will find the word "January" which comes from the Latin Janus which refers to our God Janus, the Roman god of doors and gateways. Sunday (mentioned in Article 1, Sec.7) comes from the word Sunne which refers to the Saxon Sun god. March (see Amendment XII), comes from the Latin, Martius, and refers to our Pagan God Mars.
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's GOD entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are CREATED equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
- Declaration of Independence
laws of nature Thats a Pagan Saying that things come in 3's
Nature's God the Declaration of independence does not mention which God by name
but says Creator instead
When one defines oneself as Pagan, it means she or he follows an earth or nature religion, one that sees the divine manifest in all creation. The cycles of nature are our holy days, the earth is our temple, its plants and creatures our partners and teachers. We worship a deity that is both male and female, a mother Goddess and father God, who together created all that is, was, or will be. We respect life, cherish the free will of sentient beings, and accept the sacredness of all creation
Read this
http://www.sodahead.com/unite...
it is actually said in ancient Egyptian Book the Papyrus of Ani
that you are not judged by your Worship of the Gods/Goddess
but your actions in life and how you treat others and the world around you
so in other Words Even Atheists can still achieve an Afterlife even if you don't believe in one
in Modern new Age Paganism we Honor the Gods/ Goddess but not Worship them honor them means be a Good person life a good life think of the Gods as our Parents or Teachers and live a good life to the fullest
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