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Should students be allowed to wear a swastika at school if they want?

CornerBlitz 2009/01/07 17:31:39
Yes
NO
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The Neo's at my school already do, but I heard a poll yesterday from a guy who was at public school and was suspended for wearing Nazi garb.

I hate the message as much as everyone else, but have we come so far that we do not honor the first amendment?

Your thoughts are appreciated

Update*** Since this seems to be a source of dispute, I was given this except from one of the Neo's at school. Yes, believe it or not, you can talk to them, they don't bite.
From the American Nazi Party:

Although National Socialism encompasses many various issues of concern to Aryan Americans, including a healthy environment, children's welfare, and freedom of belief without fear of System persecution...the two main tenants of National Socialism embodies the Struggle for Aryan Racial survival, and Social Justice for White Working Class people throughout our land.

As Aryan Revolutionaries, we recognize the fact that behaving in the manner of past activities has granted little progress for our Cause.We instead stress Small Cell, and Individual Activism as the path for which to build our Movement, as securely and in the most responsible manner as is possible.

We are looking for Men and Women, who are willing to sacrifice for the Good of the Folk, not people who are looking for aggrandizement, titillation, or simply causing undirected and useless mayhem. This is not a game or a gang.

It is a very serious Struggle that we are involved in for the very existence of our White Nation of people. Those who are simply intent on pranks or causing trouble should perhaps look elsewhere for stimulation.

(c) The American Nazi Party 2008/
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  • somergurl 2009/01/08 13:35:53
    NO
    somergurl
    +3
    Schools have never been a place where your rights mean anything. We can't wear certain clothing despite the fact that it's freedom of self-expression. We can't dye our hair craaaazy colours because it disrupts class. When you are a minor in the public school system, you surrender your rights' for the "good" of everyone else. This is not a question of United States Law, it's a question of School Law, and quite frankly, school law doesn't give a damn about how you want to express yourself.
  • Moonchild 2009/01/08 12:44:40
    NO
    Moonchild
    +3
    I'm sorry but condoning mass genocide is not my idea of good taste. I don't care if it's stomping on the rights of those who want to wear a swastika, it should absolutely be forbidden.
    I'm glad you chose a pic of one with a cross through it for your poll, because that symbol represents everything that is evil in mankind.
  • mac -Holding Fast 2009/01/08 12:09:24
    Yes
    mac -Holding Fast
    +2
    Yes, the faculty, staff, and other students have no right to bar them from wearing it.

    However- if it were my kid wearing it, they'd be living in a box outside the garage until they got rid of the shirt.
  • mac -Ho... mac -Ho... 2009/01/08 12:15:47
    mac -Holding Fast
    +3
    BTW, the cure to some asshat using free speech for bad is.... MORE FREE SPEECH!

    If you don't like Nazi's express it! btw cure asshat free speech free speech nazis express

    Put this up if you like!
  • hmjtrj-... mac -Ho... 2009/01/08 15:06:02
    hmjtrj-searching for truth
    +1
    Sorry but they do have the right. The faculty of a school is the last word for the rules approved by the state and the board. Anything disruptive should be stopped and I think this qualifies.
    Frankly I'm for school uniforms clear through high school.
  • mac -Ho... hmjtrj-... 2009/01/08 15:28:43
    mac -Holding Fast
    +2
    I'll get behind school uniforms.

    But once they allow any shirt with a message, they cannot bar some messages while accepting others.
  • hmjtrj-... mac -Ho... 2009/01/08 16:42:05
    hmjtrj-searching for truth
    +1
    Thats true, but most schools have banned all clothing with messages.
  • mac -Ho... hmjtrj-... 2009/01/10 09:52:36
    mac -Holding Fast
    Again- I'm in synch with uniforms.

    I stated earlier that if you walked into a school wearing an LGBT shirt, you'd be welcomed as a hero.

    With few exception (ie, uniforms) this is the case.
  • hmjtrj-... mac -Ho... 2009/01/10 13:18:12
    hmjtrj-searching for truth
    Ok it's early and I'm dense this morning. What's LGBT?
  • mac -Ho... hmjtrj-... 2009/01/10 13:57:42
    mac -Holding Fast
    Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Transgender.
  • hmjtrj-... mac -Ho... 2009/01/10 14:11:10
    hmjtrj-searching for truth
    Thanks, you are, unfortunately, correct
  • mac -Ho... hmjtrj-... 2009/01/10 14:13:02
    mac -Holding Fast
    Which was my beef with the scenario.

    Thanks for your time.
  • NotWithoutAFight 2009/01/08 12:07:39
    NO
    NotWithoutAFight
    +2
    Aside from the free expression - why would a school want to allow a student to wear something that disrupts the school?

    It's saying nothing about what you have the right to wear and more about keeping order and discipline in an environment charged with youth and hormones.

    Disruptions that the shirt is likely to cause - make a preemptive strike - after all - gang colors are banned in some places. For the same safety issues.

    Why does everyone insist on making it a 'you be taking away my rights' issue?
  • mac -Ho... NotWith... 2009/01/08 12:10:59
    mac -Holding Fast
    +1
    "why would a school want to allow a student to wear something that disrupts the school? "

    For the same reason they allow LGBT displays to take place.

    1st Amendment isn't a one-way street.
  • NotWith... mac -Ho... 2009/01/08 12:18:18
    NotWithoutAFight
    +3
    All schools do not allow LGBT.

    All things aren't 1st Amendment issues that seem so at first glance.

    When should perceived individual rights trump personal safety rights?
  • mac -Ho... NotWith... 2009/01/08 12:23:32
    mac -Holding Fast
    +1
    I don't percieve either to supercede either.

    The problems inherent in the 1st Amendment and the "stir up shit" factor are immediately addressed by the 2nd Amendment right to defend yourself.

    "An armed society is a polite society."

    Ring a bell?
  • NotWith... mac -Ho... 2009/01/08 12:31:30
    NotWithoutAFight
    +1
    You are obviously going to go to the grave without even considering a different opinion - Do you have children? Does keeping them safe to carry on THEIR beliefs matter to you? It isn't all about the 1st Amendment.

    Public Safety Laws - Er - Ring a bell?
    Inciting Riot Laws - Er - Ring a bell?
    Hate Crime Laws - Er - Ring a bell?

    What do you want? To arm highschool students so they can fight over the right to wear a nazi teeshirt?
  • mac -Ho... NotWith... 2009/01/08 13:01:17
    mac -Holding Fast
    +1
    Yes I have kids. And yes, less than a generation before myself, students were going to Highschool with shotguns.
  • NotWith... mac -Ho... 2009/01/08 14:06:44
    NotWithoutAFight
    +1
    Yeah and 150 years ago 1/2 of my ancestors were chained.

    You are one scary person.

    And this is the end of my talking to you.
  • mac -Ho... NotWith... 2009/01/08 15:29:48
    mac -Holding Fast
    The Bill of Rights scares you? rights scares BOO!
  • NotWith... mac -Ho... 2009/01/09 21:00:09
    NotWithoutAFight
    +1
    Don't shove that document in my face.


    You are twisting what my post was meant to explain. Utterly. You are like a bull with a flag - only willing to see red. So go rut with the others with your narrow self-important whine about Constitutional freedoms. ACLU loves your kind. You turn EVERYTHING into a right.

    Now - this time is really. really the end.
  • mac -Ho... NotWith... 2009/01/10 09:53:38
    mac -Holding Fast
    I only turn things into a Right if it's stipulated in the Constitution.

    Perhaps you'd do better to read the damn thing.
  • Crazy C NotWith... 2009/01/08 15:34:40
    Crazy C
    +1
    Many schools, and society don't allow LGBT inside or outside (like if it were a choice to be Homosexual, it's not like you "wear" it and then decide to take it off later on??) -- Mac, your argument doesn't make sense, when LGBT people display affection towards each other, they are not threatening or expressing hate towards anyone.

    Anna, it's very refreshing to find people that are in touch with reality. The swastika, like red and blue bandanas (and many other clothin items), are a danger in school. It creates fear, intimidation, and a unsafe environment in schools. anyone who calls that a "right" it's really an irresponsible and unrealistic person.
  • Huey 2009/01/08 11:22:40
    Yes
    Huey
    +3
    Yes, one, because it is a public school, paid for by the government and should respect the first amendment. Two, because I like to know who my enemies are.
  • rheality 2009/01/08 10:58:23
    Yes
    rheality
    +1
    Whatever. People are allowed to say "that's gay" about everything. What's the difference? Both promote hate. Can I wear a shirt that says "I Hate Nazi's"? Probably. Is that fair? Nope.
  • biggman100 2009/01/08 10:25:13 (edited)
    Undecided
    biggman100
    +1
    Well i know i am going to get a lot of hateful responses for this, but here goes. If someone wishes to wear a swastika to school that is his choice. What the symbol represents is irrevelant. And those of you who are bashing the idea of Nazism, should step back and look at the similarities with another major event in history, The Crusades. Ill give you some comparisons, in 1095 Pope Urban II ordered that all muslims and jews be converted to catholics, and those who wouldnt be converted were to be wiped out which in turn caused the deaths of millions of muslims and jews. In the mid 1920's hitler started his rise to power, and eventually caused the death of millions of jews. In the crusades, the catholics were determined to force their ideals on everyone else. Hitler was determined to force his beliefs on everyone else. Sound similar. Now some of the same people who are saying that the swastika should not be allowed in school, are the same people who say religion should be allowed. In an interesting side note, did you know hitler was baptized as a catholic when he was born. Now as some have tried to pint out to the narrow minded, Nazism is a belief in something, just as Catholicism is a belief in something. Wether you have the same beliefs or not are irrelevant. This country was f...
    Well i know i am going to get a lot of hateful responses for this, but here goes. If someone wishes to wear a swastika to school that is his choice. What the symbol represents is irrevelant. And those of you who are bashing the idea of Nazism, should step back and look at the similarities with another major event in history, The Crusades. Ill give you some comparisons, in 1095 Pope Urban II ordered that all muslims and jews be converted to catholics, and those who wouldnt be converted were to be wiped out which in turn caused the deaths of millions of muslims and jews. In the mid 1920's hitler started his rise to power, and eventually caused the death of millions of jews. In the crusades, the catholics were determined to force their ideals on everyone else. Hitler was determined to force his beliefs on everyone else. Sound similar. Now some of the same people who are saying that the swastika should not be allowed in school, are the same people who say religion should be allowed. In an interesting side note, did you know hitler was baptized as a catholic when he was born. Now as some have tried to pint out to the narrow minded, Nazism is a belief in something, just as Catholicism is a belief in something. Wether you have the same beliefs or not are irrelevant. This country was founded on the belief that all people should be allowed to be how they wish, but as have been proven many times, you are allowed to believe in what you wish, as long as it is in agreement of everyone else. What happened to the idea of each person being their own individual. Now, i am neither a catholic or a nazi, and no im not an atheist, but i have been raised to believe that you should never bash someone for their beliefs, unless you wish to have your beliefs bashed. So let the bashing begin.
    (more)
  • Moonchild biggman100 2009/01/08 13:07:22
    Moonchild
    +2
    I'm not going to bash you but I do think you are missing something in your argument.
    "in 1095 Pope Urban II ordered that all muslims and jews be converted to catholics, and those who wouldnt be converted were to be wiped out which in turn caused the deaths of millions of muslims and jews"
    Hitler was never about converting them, he just had them rounded up, tortured and slaughtered.
    There is a bit of a difference there. Not that I support the killing that others have done in the name of religion for whatever reason and using whatever excuses to justify it, it all sucks.
    But..
    Think of the cross and you think good and bad. Yes wars have been fought, people have been killed, children have been abused, but there are also charities and good will organisations and many individuals out there trying to make the world a better place for somebody.
    Think of a swastika and I don't even want to tell you the images that come into my head, I've seen far too many documentaries and pictorials. No good came out of the Nazi movement.
    Hitler was an absolute nutter. I could never support that symbol to be shown - it's a hate crime pure and simple.
    You can't really justify something so heinous by comparing it to something else.
    nutter support symbol hate crime pure simple justify heinous comparing
  • hmjtrj-... biggman100 2009/01/08 15:21:46
    hmjtrj-searching for truth
    +1
    Schools have rules that may not apply if you are not on the school grounds. The state the school board, the faculty and parents to a certain extent are responsible for the rules of the school. They have the right. This is a post WW2 world and a swastika is disruptive. If this person wants to put it on once they leave the school grounds that is their right. They will probably get a bloody nose, but that is their choice.
    I have no hate speach for someone that does good research. ;>)
  • . . . . 2009/01/08 09:17:17
  • Huey . . . . 2009/01/08 11:24:36
    Huey
    +3
    I'm Black and I think they should be able to wear it. See it's not about racists, its about people being free to voice their opinion IRREGARDLESS OF WHO IT OFFENDS. That is the very foundation of our nation and without it we would crumble into anarchy or worse.
  • Moonchild Huey 2009/01/08 13:09:34
    Moonchild
    +2
    Two words for your consideration... "hate crime"
  • Turtle ... Moonchild 2009/01/08 14:15:44
    Turtle Chell
    +1
    that is right, there is a difference between voicing your opinion and being hateful. we should have the right to voice our opinions but we should not have the right to be hatefull.
  • Huey Turtle ... 2009/01/08 15:21:26
    Huey
    Violence has been committed in the name of the Christian god for milinia, yet its ok to wear a shirt with a cross on it. Why, because they love the tenants of their faith, even if it dose preach intolerance or call for the murder of people that don't agree with that faith.

    Thus if a Nazi wants to wear a swastika they should be able too. Because MY First Amendment as an American citizen is more important than someone being offended by a T Shirt.

    Because once the censorship starts in full swing its a slippery slope....2 words for your consideration Moonchild... What Next? Do you Trust our Govt to determine whats offensive and whats not???
  • Turtle ... Huey 2009/01/08 15:32:10
    Turtle Chell
    when talking about public schools they have the right to tell students what they are allowed to wear and what they are not allowed to wear in the school.

    a cross does not have to mean hate just like the swastika does not have to mean hate it depends on what the meaning of the person wearing has. if they are wearing anything to promote hate they should not be allowed to wear it in public schools. also, i thought religon was supposed to not be allowed in school so that would include religeous shirts or anything relating to any religon.

    yes i agree, censorship outside of public school should be limited to obscene material only. land of the free!
  • . . . . Huey 2009/01/09 01:10:55
  • Huey . . . . 2009/01/09 05:20:25
    Huey
    +1
    I would feel relived that my work was cut out for me. Much better than finding out too late that my Kid's teacher was a Klansmen when after he's found hanging from a tree somewhere.
  • . . . . Huey 2009/01/09 05:29:48
  • CornerB... . . . . 2009/01/09 05:48:18 (edited)
    CornerBlitz
    what you guys completely and almost adamantly ignore is that these folks want their political opinion voiced. Freedom of speech and expression for a political party is a basic right that even us lowly students enjoy.



    So, a person can wear an Obama T shirt to class and it is no worries, but all the sudden the neos wanna wear a swastika and it makes you blush.



    We have to show consistency of action in the student body, and not pick and choose what we like.



    I will be the first to agree that I despise what the Neos do and what they stand for, but they are doing nothing more than exercising their first amendment rights



    The American Nazi Party has just as much right to exist as Obama and his hordes.



    We have to be fair and consistent. The ACLU agrees with me and will file suit on the behalf of the American Nazi Party in this regard.



    Try to not let your opinions cloud your logic.
  • . . . . CornerB... 2009/01/09 06:02:05
  • Mark5 2009/01/08 09:10:23
    NO
    Mark5
    +1
    Absolutely not! Come on! This is a symbol of an idea that put millions to death. Imagine the insult that is to the Jews who lost their loved ones in that war. That symbol is a part of world history that I hope and pray is never repeated again. The last thing we should ever allow is for that machine to start up again. Would you want Teenagers wearing a shirt with a picture of planes crashing into the twin towers and a quote saying "Death to Americans!" Same thing in my book. To support something like that is truly sick.

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