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Should good-hearted Muslims renounce Islam?

tncdel 2012/08/13 09:44:48
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I'm well aware that not all who claim to be Muslims follow the evil commands of the Quaran to kill, oppress and annihilate all who refuse to believe as they do. Some who deem themselves Muslims I think have picked out only parts of what the Quaran commands, while disregarding what they don't feel comfortable with. I can't say that for sure, especially since Muslims are also commanded to deceive non-Muslims [taqiyyah].
So call it just a hunch of mine, and we'll leave it at that.

What do YOU think someone claiming to be a Muslim should do if they can't reconcile how they feel with what the Quaran commands of them? Would they be better off renouncing Islam, and just pay homage to their "Allah" as their hearts dictate?

Please listen to the video to understand what each and every Muslim is commanded to do, then tell us if you think any good-hearted person should renounce such a hateful and violent ideology:

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Top Opinion

  • Elephant Lord 2012/08/13 23:48:41
    NO [tell us why not].
    Elephant Lord
    +3
    I think good-hearted Muslims are the real Muslims, and they should renounce the fanatics.

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  • jean 2012/08/14 07:30:39
    NO [tell us why not].
    jean
    +1
    Not unless they are ready to die.

    Summary Answer:
    Those who turn their back on Islam are to be executed. This is confirmed by the words and deeds of Muhammad. The only freedom of belief in Islam is the freedom to become Muslim.


    The Qur'an:
    Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

    Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

    Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66.

    BROUGHT TO YOU FROM THE RELIGION OF PEACE.
  • Elephant Lord 2012/08/13 23:48:41
    NO [tell us why not].
    Elephant Lord
    +3
    I think good-hearted Muslims are the real Muslims, and they should renounce the fanatics.
  • jean Elephan... 2012/08/14 20:48:43
    jean
    All that they are doing is commanded by the Quran - good - hearted or not!
  • Radical Ed 2012/08/13 20:30:42
    NO [tell us why not].
    Radical Ed
    +3
    I think good-hearted Muslims should denounce fundamentalism in all walks of life.
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/14 20:49:10
    jean
    They are only doing what is commanded by Mohammad and the Quran.
  • Radical Ed jean 2012/08/15 07:29:14
    Radical Ed
    Islam is not unique in that regard.
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 07:45:19
    jean
    Really - what other religion is commands it adherents to KILL THE INFIDEL or make pay protection money to live?
  • Radical Ed jean 2012/08/15 08:57:40
    Radical Ed
    +1
    kill the non-believer/infidel: Deuteronomy 17
    If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:00:24
    jean
    So now which religion is this? Because as you well know the 613 mitzvot were between the Ancient Hebrews and Yahweh in a Theocracy? Are you an Ancient Hebrew? Why are you quoting their history to me a Christian? Christians are not now nor have ever been under the "law". It was fulfilled in Christ Jesus - basic tenet of Christianity. Hebrews have not practice the "law" since the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. They cannot fulfilled the law since much of it had to do with the temple.

    TRY AGAIN!
  • Radical Ed jean 2012/08/15 09:06:12
    Radical Ed
    what the eff are you talking about? christianity and Judaism are no different in the scripture. the stoning of wives, the raping of daughters, the killing of children. no, you want to bash another religion because you seem blinded by the hypocrisy in your own religious text. if you want to bash then focus on the bad apples, not the entire ideology.
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:16:58
    jean
    In other words you are clueless just like I thought.
  • Radical Ed jean 2012/08/15 09:18:34 (edited)
    Radical Ed
    nope, i'm avoiding ad hominem so we can discuss. you, on the other hand, are not. based on what i've seem on other replied on SH, its not unusual.

    now that was ad hominem.
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:23:13
    jean
    You are clueless as to Christianity and Judaism. - PERIOD!
  • Radical Ed jean 2012/08/15 09:24:59
    Radical Ed
    got my KJB right here.
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:29:36
    jean
    GREAT - READ IT!
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:03:05
    jean
    Those first words "FOUND AMONG YOU" meaning HEBREWS! Are you an Ancient Hebrew - the law had nothing to do with non Hebrews. IT was a covenant between the Hebrews and Yahweh. Basic JUDAISM.

    TRY AGAIN!
  • Radical Ed jean 2012/08/15 09:12:09
    Radical Ed
    Matthew 10:34-36
    Matthew 11:20-24
    mark 6:11
    romans 16:17

    etc etc etc
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:20:01
    jean
    JESUS BROUGHT THE SWORD OF THE "WORD" - you are sinking deeper into ignorance..

    ETC. what? You haven' t shown anything. Where does it tell us to KILL THE UNBELIEVER? SHOW ME THE MONEY!
  • Radical Ed jean 2012/08/15 09:23:31
    Radical Ed
    Thus saith the LORD? Slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.
    - 1 Samuel 15:3
    Kill Witches
    - Exodus 22:17
    Kill Homosexuals
    - Leviticus 20:13
    Kill Fortunetellers
    - Leviticus 20:27

    and the Deuteronomy one above, which is kill unbelievers. it is in your bible, look it up. or are you one of those that say "OMG OT stuff so doesn't count". well your god supposedly wrote it and it's in the bloody bible so as far as i'm concerned it counts.
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:25:41 (edited)
    jean
    Again - you are foolishly showing you ignorance. HEBREW TO HEBREW. The law (which is now history) has nothing to do with NON HEBREWS. Again I ask you - are you an Ancient Hebrew?
  • Radical Ed jean 2012/08/15 09:28:41
    Radical Ed
    your kidding me right? you follow the bible and thus call it the word of god. anything you find unappealing you call it out of context and state it means something else. bloody hypocrite.
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:32:49
    jean
    LOL - << Matthew 5:17 >>

    New International Version (©1984)
    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them DONE - THANK YOU JESUS!

    << Romans 10:4 >>

    New International Version (©1984)
    Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.


    What Does It Mean to Fulfill the Law in Romans 8:3-4


    Romans 8:3–4

    For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:27:32
    jean
    Mohammad a most excellent example of a Muslim and the Quran are for NOW! KILL THE INFIDEL!


    Question:
    Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?


    Summary Answer:
    The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

    Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

    Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

    Unfortunately, there are ...

















































































    Mohammad a most excellent example of a Muslim and the Quran are for NOW! KILL THE INFIDEL!


    Question:
    Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?


    Summary Answer:
    The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

    Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

    Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

    Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.


    The Quran:
    Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

    Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

    Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

    Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

    Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

    Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

    Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

    Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

    Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

    Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

    Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

    Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

    Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

    Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

    Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

    Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

    Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

    Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars.

    Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

    Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad (Arabic).

    Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

    Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

    Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

    Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

    Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

    Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

    Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

    Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

    Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

    Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

    Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

    Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

    Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

    Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

    Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

    Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

    Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

    Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

    Quran (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

    Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.
    (more)
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:21:21 (edited)
    jean
    WHERE ARE CHRISTIANS ORDERED TO KILL UNBELIEVERS OR TO RECEIVE PROTECTION MONEY FROM THEM?

    Show me??????????????
  • Radical Ed jean 2012/08/15 09:24:33
    Radical Ed
    caps lock gets you nowhere.
  • jean Radical Ed 2012/08/15 09:33:30
    jean
    Love 'em. I love God's WORD and it emphasizes the WORD for me.
  • Flowers 2012/08/13 16:21:00
    NO [tell us why not].
    Flowers
    +2
    It makes no sense. Just as many Christians Pick and choose which commands and teachings to follow or ignore (perfect example: Leviticus) so do some Muslims. We are never going to advance to a higher level of intelligence until people can get the eff over themselves and stop judging other religions so much.
  • tncdel Flowers 2012/08/14 07:08:55
    tncdel
    +2
    One who does not judge and evaluate potential threats to his or her safety and security is a fool.
  • ALofRI 2012/08/13 15:46:55
    YES [explain why you think so].
    ALofRI
    Followed immediately by the renouncing of Christianity, Judaism, Mormonism, etc. Then maybe we can stop killing each other "In the name of GOD!"
  • tncdel ALofRI 2012/08/14 07:12:39
    tncdel
    I'm not into mysticism, so I deem ALL religion utter nonsense at best, often worse. But you make a mistake if you lump Islam with all other religions. For Islam is unlike any other religion in key ways. In fact, it is not a religion by 1st Amendment criteria, though no one has yet challenged it in federal court.

    To sum things up, the difference between Islam and every other major religion is that Islam is THE ONLY ONE that commands ALL followers to kill, oppress and annihilate all who refuse to believe as they do.

    THAT's what Mohammed commanded his followers to do. Whereas, Jesus commanded all his followers to "Love thy neighbor" and to "Turn the other cheek."

    It is immaterial that those claiming to be either Muslims or Christians don't follow the commands of their respective claimed religions. For one who does not FOLLOW cannot be a true FOLLOWER.

    When someone claiming to be a Christian kills in the name of Jesus, he or she does so ON THEIR OWN. Not because their religion commanded them. Same thing for those who command others to do what is contrary to the commands of Jesus.

    So when you or others make claims that Christians killed X number of people, I have to say you are wrong about that.

    But when it comes to Islam, a true Muslim will obey Sharia Law and the Quran's commands. So the number killed by Muslims in the name of "Allah" are indeed attributable to Islam, not their own idea.
  • Red 2012/08/13 13:23:33
  • tncdel Red 2012/08/14 07:14:19
    tncdel
    That's your belief, and I respect that, though I myself am not into mysticism. Nor do I want to be saved. I want to be used, not saved, by myself as I deem fit.
  • Ben 2012/08/13 13:01:37
    NO [tell us why not].
    Ben
    +1
    The Qaran, the Bible and other holy texts often have radical parts and lines endorsing murder, war, slavery etc. They were written in a different time and most modern followers of them know those parts are not to be taken literally. We allow people of other religions to practice them without following every literal word, why should muslims not be allowed the same?
  • tncdel Ben 2012/08/14 07:15:01
    tncdel
    Those using Old Testament verses to defend Islam fail to note:
    1.) What Jesus commanded later in the New Testament is what Christians are supposed to follow when a conflict arises between what the Old Testament said.

    2.) The verses they take from the Old Testament were from HISTORIES. So that when it says God ordered the Jews [not Christians] to kill their enemies, etc., that was referring to specific enemies at that time, not now.

    3.) Jesus commanded all followers to "Love thy neighbor" and to "turn the other cheek." Not to kill anyone. Whereas, Mohammed commanded all his followers to kill, oppress and annihilate all who refuse to believe as they do. So Islam is virtually 180 degrees from what Jesus taught. And those who point to "Christians" committing atrocities don't admit that they do so IN VIOLATION OF what Jesus taught. Whereas, Muslims commit atrocities OBEYING what Mohammed taught. And only those who FOLLOW are true FOLLOWERS.
  • Ben tncdel 2012/08/14 10:33:45
    Ben
    +1
    Don't believe I ever pointed to any Christian atrocities, I merely pointed out that most religious texts, especially those that are hundreds or even thousands of years old, have their more extremist elements and yet other religions are given the benefit of the doubt but islam much less so by some people.
  • tncdel Ben 2012/08/14 20:44:15
    tncdel
    +1
    I felt it needed to be pointed out, that's all.
  • Metaldane 2012/08/13 11:25:32
    NO [tell us why not].
    Metaldane
    +1
    They should do what other religions have done move away from the old conservative viewpoints of their religion and adapt it to modern times even Christianity has managed that as they eventually stopped burning "heretics" (non believers) at the stake. Islam is already adapting as the number of moderate thinking Muslims have increased as the younger generations have started gaining ground and rebelling against the older ways.
  • tncdel Metaldane 2012/08/14 07:18:05
    tncdel
    That burning at the stake stuff was never done by Christians, at least not TRUE Christians. For Jesus commanded all his followers to love thy neighbors, and to be forgiving. Not burn them at the stake. Bottomline: one who does not follow cannot be a follower. Period!
  • Metaldane tncdel 2012/08/14 07:39:21
    Metaldane
    No they're still followers they're just hypocritical ones which make up the majority of Christianity.
  • tncdel Metaldane 2012/08/14 20:46:44
    tncdel
    Again, those you see as hypocrites are not true followers, so it's a moot point. As the old saying goes, "Though you may call yourself an eagle, if you have a bill like a duck, feet like a duck, and quack like a duck, some folks are bound to assume you are indeed a duck." :)~

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